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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021 Posts: 2864
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15755 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 1467
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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myrtle
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 11/11/21 1:53 am ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
any other comments on the first few days of games? |
One game that stood out to me simply from a boxscore standpoint was Cal's opening win vs. Sac State. Cal scored 90 in basically a 20-point win, but it was their rotation that was interesting. A lot of the players who they ended up having to use a lot last year (Daniels, Mastrov, Onyiah, Samb, etc.) either didn't play for whatever reason or weren't really utilized. McIntosh started & played full minutes, but only took 2 shots. Other than Lutje Schipholt who led the team with a 20-and-10 double-double, the main players of the game were freshmen (Curry), transfers (Bush), or returners who were injured most/all of last season (Crocker, Green). It does seem like Charmin Smith has a lot of different pieces to work with, but if they're all healthy (which is its own question), I don't know how she'll keep everyone engaged moving forward. Not gonna lie, I hope my Huskies jump on any of Cal's post players should they choose to enter the transfer portal. Cal's lineup for this game, even without an injured Daniels, was very undersized – and it worked, at least in this matchup. Imo if you have three young post players just sitting on the bench game after game, that eventually sends its own message from Coach to players.
Elsewhere, I saw Colorado won at Oklahoma State. I was disappointed that neither of the Husky transfers on that roster started. Miller & Sadler were two of the few good players for the Huskies last season. Imo Colorado could definitely use one or two upgrades in their starting lineup, but hey, JR Payne coached the Buffs up to a win here, so maybe this lineup will work for them. Ultimately I hope nothing works for them, but whatever.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021 Posts: 457 Location: Oklahoma
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 11/13/21 1:23 pm ::: |
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Pac-12.com's Michelle Smith outlines the Pac-12's nonconference games to watch. I added some other good matchups as well.
Texas at Stanford // November 14
Stanford's 2021 National Championship Celebration
California Baptist at Oregon State // November 17
Louisville at Washington // November 20
Missouri State at USC // November 20
Oregon vs. Oklahoma // November 20
Battle 4 Atlantis // Paradise Island, Bahamas
Stanford at Gonzaga // November 21
Marquette at Colorado // November 21
Oregon vs. South Carolina // November 21
Battle 4 Atlantis // Paradise Island, Bahamas
Stanford vs. Indiana // November 25
Baha Mar Hoops Pink Flamingo Championship // Nassau, Bahamas
Arizona vs. DePaul // November 26
Paradise Jam // St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands
Utah vs. Gonzaga // November 26
Rainbow Wahine Showdown // Manoa, Hawaii
Arizona State vs. Baylor // November 26
CancĂşn Challenge // CancĂşn, Mexico
Oregon State vs. Michigan // November 26
Daytona Beach Invitational // Daytona Beach, Florida
Stanford vs. South Florida // November 26
Baha Mar Hoops Pink Flamingo Championship // Nassau, Bahamas
Arizona vs. Rutgers // November 27
Paradise Jam // St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands
Washington State vs. North Carolina State // November 27
Baha Mar Hoops Pink Flamingo Championship // Nassau, Bahamas
Stanford vs. Maryland // November 27
Baha Mar Hoops Pink Flamingo Championship // Nassau, Bahamas
Oregon State vs. Notre Dame // November 27
Daytona Beach Invitational // Daytona Beach, Florida
BYU at Utah // December 4
California at Arkansas // December 5
Washington State at Gonzaga // December 8
UCLA vs. UConn // December 11
Never Forget Tribute Classic // Newark, New Jersey
Washington State at BYU // December 18
Stanford at Tennessee // December 18
Arizona vs. Texas // December 19
Pac-12 Coast-to-Coast Challenge // Las Vegas, Nevada
Ohio State at UCLA // December 19
Northwestern at Oregon // December 21
Stanford at South Carolina // December 21
Utah at Oklahoma // December 21
UConn at Oregon // January 17
Last edited by Stormeo on 11/21/21 3:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 11/13/21 2:13 pm ::: |
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thanks for adding in some of the less touted, but still intriguing matchups.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 11/13/21 2:22 pm ::: |
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I would count ASU's loss at home to Minnesota as a bad loss. CTT is one of those 'nice' coaches but I really think her 'system' is no longer a winning one (if it ever was). I mean she can finish low middle of the PAC consistently which seems to be enough to keep her employed, but it's been a long time since they were really in the conversation.
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018 Posts: 1467
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Posted: 11/13/21 2:31 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
I would count ASU's loss at home to Minnesota as a bad loss. CTT is one of those 'nice' coaches but I really think her 'system' is no longer a winning one (if it ever was). I mean she can finish low middle of the PAC consistently which seems to be enough to keep her employed, but it's been a long time since they were really in the conversation. |
Yeah, but she's an institution in Tempe. I don't think she's going to go anywhere anytime soon.
I do want the Sun Devils to rise up again, but I don't want more nightmares of Stanford scoring 31 points against them.
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22
Joined: 31 Mar 2015 Posts: 102
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Posted: 11/13/21 3:56 pm ::: |
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Coyotes wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I would count ASU's loss at home to Minnesota as a bad loss. CTT is one of those 'nice' coaches but I really think her 'system' is no longer a winning one (if it ever was). I mean she can finish low middle of the PAC consistently which seems to be enough to keep her employed, but it's been a long time since they were really in the conversation. |
Yeah, but she's an institution in Tempe. I don't think she's going to go anywhere anytime soon.
I do want the Sun Devils to rise up again, but I don't want more nightmares of Stanford scoring 31 points against them. |
Didn't they finish top 25 a couple years ago?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67058 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 11/13/21 4:12 pm ::: |
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22 wrote: |
Coyotes wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I would count ASU's loss at home to Minnesota as a bad loss. CTT is one of those 'nice' coaches but I really think her 'system' is no longer a winning one (if it ever was). I mean she can finish low middle of the PAC consistently which seems to be enough to keep her employed, but it's been a long time since they were really in the conversation. |
Yeah, but she's an institution in Tempe. I don't think she's going to go anywhere anytime soon.
I do want the Sun Devils to rise up again, but I don't want more nightmares of Stanford scoring 31 points against them. |
Didn't they finish top 25 a couple years ago? |
Arizona Stata finished #25 in 2020
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15755 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 11/13/21 4:26 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
I would count ASU's loss at home to Minnesota as a bad loss. |
....especially after MN lost to Jacksonville St., eh? All close games though, and kinda typical of these early season bumbles.
I'd say AZ St. has been a more consistent member of the PAC than any number of others, like CO, CAL, UT, WA, or Wazzou. And like AZ is now doing, several of these programs are on the rise. OR wasn't much to write home about in the not-so-distant past. I hope they can remain relevant.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013 Posts: 1375
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Posted: 11/13/21 4:53 pm ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I would count ASU's loss at home to Minnesota as a bad loss. |
....especially after MN lost to Jacksonville St., eh? All close games though, and kinda typical of these early season bumbles.
I'd say AZ St. has been a more consistent member of the PAC than any number of others, like CO, CAL, UT, WA, or Wazzou. And like AZ is now doing, several of these programs are on the rise. OR wasn't much to write home about in the not-so-distant past. I hope they can remain relevant. |
The thing with the Pac-12 is that the rest of the league is getting better, especially in terms of recruiting, and ASU hasn't kept up. As teams like Arizona, Oregon, OSU and UCLA have all gotten significantly better talent recently, inherently the teams that stay the same or have some drop off are going to look much worse in comparison than they actually are.
Personally I think the PAC has a real chance to get 8 teams into the tournament this season, but that could depend on how well the teams who don't get get wins in-conference to do so early in the season. The Minnesota loss doesn't help the cause.
_________________ Unspoken expectations are just premeditated resentments.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 11/13/21 5:10 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
22 wrote: |
Coyotes wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
I would count ASU's loss at home to Minnesota as a bad loss. CTT is one of those 'nice' coaches but I really think her 'system' is no longer a winning one (if it ever was). I mean she can finish low middle of the PAC consistently which seems to be enough to keep her employed, but it's been a long time since they were really in the conversation. |
Yeah, but she's an institution in Tempe. I don't think she's going to go anywhere anytime soon.
I do want the Sun Devils to rise up again, but I don't want more nightmares of Stanford scoring 31 points against them. |
Didn't they finish top 25 a couple years ago? |
Arizona Stata finished #25 in 2020 |
and they were 6-9 in conference last year. It's been a long time since they've been better than 10-8 or somewhere around there.
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IM in OC
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 1000 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: 11/13/21 5:38 pm ::: |
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Using Hoopgurlz as a ranking source, only because they go back to 2008, ASU has not had one Top 25 ranked player go to the school in the past 13+ years.
The closest they came was back in 2010 when Cassie Harberts had verballed, then pulled it back and went to USC. Harberts was ranked #11. Same year Lyndsey Sherbert was also considering the school, but never verballed and then went to Cal. Sherbert was ranked #29. CTT thought she had both in the bag.
I do not think CTT wants top players but rather role players. Plus if you are are a top player are you okay with rotating in and out as much as CTT makes those hockey line changes?
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013 Posts: 1375
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Posted: 11/13/21 6:18 pm ::: |
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IM in OC wrote: |
I do not think CTT wants top players but rather role players. Plus if you are are a top player are you okay with rotating in and out as much as CTT makes those hockey line changes? |
I am a firm believer that you can’t have an elite team without elite talent. As consistently as she was in the top third of the the PAC before the revolution began, CTT has only gone to the Elite Eight twice in her 24 seasons at ASU. Both of those teams featured Briann January, the only ASU player to ever crack a WNBA roster. I think.
_________________ Unspoken expectations are just premeditated resentments.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 11/13/21 6:53 pm ::: |
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You bet! I was surprised Smith didn’t acknowledge Stanford’s game tomorrow vs. Texas, especially since y’all will be celebrating Stanford’s (aka the Pac-12’s) championship. Ditto that midwinter UConn-Oregon matchup.
PickledGinger wrote: |
IM in OC wrote: |
I do not think CTT wants top players but rather role players. Plus if you are are a top player are you okay with rotating in and out as much as CTT makes those hockey line changes? |
I am a firm believer that you can’t have an elite team without elite talent. As consistently as she was in the top third of the the PAC before the revolution began, CTT has only gone to the Elite Eight twice in her 24 seasons at ASU. Both of those teams featured Briann January, the only ASU player to ever crack a WNBA roster. I think. |
Completely agree, really with both of y'all. Even if you didn’t have to have elite talent back then to build into an elite program, you certainly do now. Arizona has completely usurped Arizona State as the statewide head honcho wbb program, in such a small amount of time too. CTT has had a good run, but it still has not resulted in a single Final Four appearance. If I were a Sun Devil stan, I’d have been calling for a leadership change as soon as I saw Adia Barnes even starting to get visibly better top talent across the way. CTT isn’t adapting, so I don’t see the Sun Devils ever again becoming a legit conference contender with her in charge.
IIRC, Sophie Brunner was actually traded at one point in the WNBA (either to or from Phoenix), but I’m not sure if she ever actually appeared in a regular-season game. Joy Burke is another player who possibly appeared in the W, but I’m not sure. It really might just be Briann January & no one else.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18055 Location: Queens
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Posted: 11/13/21 10:10 pm ::: |
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PickledGinger wrote: |
IM in OC wrote: |
I do not think CTT wants top players but rather role players. Plus if you are are a top player are you okay with rotating in and out as much as CTT makes those hockey line changes? |
I am a firm believer that you can’t have an elite team without elite talent. As consistently as she was in the top third of the the PAC before the revolution began, CTT has only gone to the Elite Eight twice in her 24 seasons at ASU. Both of those teams featured Briann January, the only ASU player to ever crack a WNBA roster. I think. |
I assume you mean a Turner Thorne ASU player. I mean, Kym Hampton exists, but Kym's college career predated... a lot of things. Like me.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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IM in OC
Joined: 25 Mar 2009 Posts: 1000 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: 11/13/21 10:12 pm ::: |
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In the 2012 season Dymond Simon played in 8 games for Phoenix.
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016 Posts: 576 Location: Seattle
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Posted: 11/13/21 11:50 pm ::: |
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What do you need talented players for when the game plan is to grab, shove, claw, and pull while the coach tries to convince the refs to stop calling fouls? And how many elite players want to play in that kind of system?
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osubeavers
Joined: 07 Jan 2017 Posts: 277 Location: West Hills, Portland, OR
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Posted: 11/14/21 12:11 pm ::: |
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Well stated. ASU under CTT likes turn basketball into roller derby. And her sideline antics reek of desperation.
_________________ Stepping out of a triangle into striped light - Everything is wrong, at the same time it's RIGHT!
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 11/14/21 3:24 pm ::: |
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[quote="osubeavers"]Well stated. ASU under CTT likes turn basketball into roller derby. And her sideline antics reek of desperation.[/quote]
You say that like it's a bad thing. Oh to have Sundays back with Calvello, Weston, Arnold and Hardman.
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