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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 02/02/24 12:32 am ::: |
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scullyfu wrote: |
J-Spoon wrote: |
big day 1 lots of stuff
still to drop
<snip>
Is Bri Jones a sure thing to stay in Conn?
will there be any shockers day 2 |
I think Conn cored Jones. |
Yes, but cored players can be traded
Not saying Jones wants a trade or Conn wants to trade her but
Canada was traded today, EDD might be traded both are cored, hopefully Stewart is a sure thing in NY
But I can imagine a scenario where B. Jones ends up somewhere else (maybe Washington? Or LA?)
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Hoops9092
Joined: 04 Nov 2008 Posts: 1639
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Posted: 02/02/24 10:59 am ::: |
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It's got to be Seattle or New York for Nneka.
I don't see the point in going to Chicago. She has no ties to that region, they are another mid-level team this year, might as well stay in LA.
She has the glam for NYC and I could see her in the 4 spot, Stewie more of a floating forward at the 3.
But Seattle is clearly the best fit, with Noelle Quinn running the show and a great dynamic guard duo on the perimeter and Ezi at the 5. But the question is if she wants to be in Seattle, and the buzzin NYC?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67058 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 02/02/24 11:20 am ::: |
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I don't see how Seattle is considered better than mid-level while Chicago is meh.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 4638
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Posted: 02/02/24 1:26 pm ::: |
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Jewell + SDS + Ezi > Kah + Mars + Liz/Izz
_________________ Some days are meant to be remembered.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67058 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 02/02/24 2:52 pm ::: |
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eyevolley4 wrote: |
Jewell + SDS + Ezi > Kah + Mars + Liz/Izz |
So Skylar improves the Storm by eight games by herself?
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 4638
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Posted: 02/02/24 3:10 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
eyevolley4 wrote: |
Jewell + SDS + Ezi > Kah + Mars + Liz/Izz |
So Skylar improves the Storm by eight games by herself? |
The Storm lost 8 games by 6 points or less. Skylar is worth a 6 point differential when you account for her value over the replacement option on both sides of the ball.
Yes. 8 games.
_________________ Some days are meant to be remembered.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67058 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 02/02/24 3:14 pm ::: |
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eyevolley4 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
eyevolley4 wrote: |
Jewell + SDS + Ezi > Kah + Mars + Liz/Izz |
So Skylar improves the Storm by eight games by herself? |
The Storm lost 8 games by 6 points or less. Skylar is worth a 6 point differential when you account for her value over the replacement option on both sides of the ball.
Yes. 8 games. |
That makes them even. It doesn't put Seattle ahead of Chicago.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 4638
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Posted: 02/02/24 3:23 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
eyevolley4 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
eyevolley4 wrote: |
Jewell + SDS + Ezi > Kah + Mars + Liz/Izz |
So Skylar improves the Storm by eight games by herself? |
The Storm lost 8 games by 6 points or less. Skylar is worth a 6 point differential when you account for her value over the replacement option on both sides of the ball.
Yes. 8 games. |
That makes them even. It doesn't put Seattle ahead of Chicago. |
Lindsay Allen < Courtney Williams
_________________ Some days are meant to be remembered.
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ChasingRatDogmaSalade
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 Posts: 590 Location: Las Vegas, NV
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Posted: 02/02/24 3:24 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
eyevolley4 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
eyevolley4 wrote: |
Jewell + SDS + Ezi > Kah + Mars + Liz/Izz |
So Skylar improves the Storm by eight games by herself? |
The Storm lost 8 games by 6 points or less. Skylar is worth a 6 point differential when you account for her value over the replacement option on both sides of the ball.
Yes. 8 games. |
That makes them even. It doesn't put Seattle ahead of Chicago. |
In her prime SDS was a 6-ish win over 40 games kind of player. Giving Seattle 5 more wins because of her signing seems fair.
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so-many-pickles
Joined: 17 May 2018 Posts: 99
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Posted: 02/02/24 4:40 pm ::: |
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ChasingRatDogmaSalade wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
eyevolley4 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
eyevolley4 wrote: |
Jewell + SDS + Ezi > Kah + Mars + Liz/Izz |
So Skylar improves the Storm by eight games by herself? |
The Storm lost 8 games by 6 points or less. Skylar is worth a 6 point differential when you account for her value over the replacement option on both sides of the ball.
Yes. 8 games. |
That makes them even. It doesn't put Seattle ahead of Chicago. |
In her prime SDS was a 6-ish win over 40 games kind of player. Giving Seattle 5 more wins because of her signing seems fair. |
Who she's replacing matters.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14120
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Posted: 02/02/24 8:26 pm ::: |
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With just about 2 days of free agency over here is a look of the signings and trades that took place February 1st or later (only players will be listed, no picks)
https://acrossthetimeline.com/wnba/transactions.html#
Atlanta Dream
Jordin Canada (Trade)
Tina Charles
Nia Coffey
Aerial Powers
Chicago Sky
Lindsay Allen
Connecticut Sun
Rebecca Allen
Rachel Banham
Rennia Davis
Kianna Smith
Sydney Wiese
Dallas Wings
Kalani Brown
Satou Sabally
Indiana Fever
Damiris Dantas
Katie Lou Samuelson
Las Vegas Aces
Sydney Colson
Megan Gustafuson
Morgan Jones
Kiah Stokes
Los Angeles Sparks
Monique Billings
Rae Burrell
Layshia Clarendon
Virag Kiss
Aari McDonald (Trade)
Taylor Mikesell
Minnesota Lynx
Bridget Carleton
Liz Dixon
Alanna Smith
Kayana Traylor
Courtney Williams
New York Liberty
Okako Adika
Ivana Dojkic
Leonie Fiebich
Stephanie Mawuli
Phoenix Mercury
Natasha Cloud
Seattle Storm
Skylar Diggins-Smith
Washington Mystics
Emily Engstler
DiDi Richards
Karlie Samuelson
Julie Vanloo
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5401 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 02/03/24 2:19 am ::: |
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None of the the star post players have yet to sign a contract.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8975
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Posted: 02/03/24 9:21 am ::: |
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GEF34 wrote: |
New York Liberty
Okako Adika
Ivana Dojkic
Leonie Fiebich
Stephanie Mawuli |
Lib win with the most names that I'm not familiar with and don't know how to pronounce.
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020 Posts: 1886
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 4638
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Posted: 02/03/24 12:54 pm ::: |
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Do we know who the candidates are for DB’s services?
It seems like Phoenix would be a better fit for EDD if they send their draft pick and Bri Turner or Sophie to Washington and EDD does a $150k salary.
Cloud, DT, Becca, EDD, BG - that’s a pretty big upgrade from last year and they’ve made it clear they are shooting for a championship so I doubt the draft pick figures prominently into their plans while Washington needs to take draft picks very seriously right now.
So then we are back to where does Nneka go? Where does DB go?
Let’s say Nneka goes to Seattle. That team would be set talent wise in their starting lineup to compete at the top.
Then would DB consider going to Chicago? And if DB goes then is it best for the Sun to trade AT for max value? Imagine the Fever swapping NaLyssa Smith and next year’s first rounder for AT.
So many crazy options still on the table…
_________________ Some days are meant to be remembered.
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 7939
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Posted: 02/03/24 1:12 pm ::: |
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This whole superteam concept is kind of disgusting. The idea of multiple stars banding together in an effort to significantly increase their chances for championship success seems to cheapen the very idea of championships.
It is one thing to build a team via careful drafting or a few key trades. However, this modern commitment to virtually guarantee championship gold by deliberately stacking yourselves with the very best players just seems so contemptible.
_________________ Regards,
J A P
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020 Posts: 1886
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Posted: 02/03/24 2:05 pm ::: |
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jap wrote: |
This whole superteam concept is kind of disgusting. The idea of multiple stars banding together in an effort to significantly increase their chances for championship success seems to cheapen the very idea of championships.
It is one thing to build a team via careful drafting or a few key trades. However, this modern commitment to virtually guarantee championship gold by deliberately stacking yourselves with the very best players just seems so contemptible. |
I hate it too. It’s what turned me off the NBA years ago.
It’s not very sportsmanlike. It is what it is though, I suppose.
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Spark4Life
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 4024
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Posted: 02/03/24 3:22 pm ::: |
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jap wrote: |
This whole superteam concept is kind of disgusting. The idea of multiple stars banding together in an effort to significantly increase their chances for championship success seems to cheapen the very idea of championships.
It is one thing to build a team via careful drafting or a few key trades. However, this modern commitment to virtually guarantee championship gold by deliberately stacking yourselves with the very best players just seems so contemptible. |
+1
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5401 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 02/03/24 7:24 pm ::: |
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jap wrote: |
This whole superteam concept is kind of disgusting. The idea of multiple stars banding together in an effort to significantly increase their chances for championship success seems to cheapen the very idea of championships.
It is one thing to build a team via careful drafting or a few key trades. However, this modern commitment to virtually guarantee championship gold by deliberately stacking yourselves with the very best players just seems so contemptible. |
The Miami Heat organization does not agree with your perspective. Neither does LBJ.🏆🏆
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 7939
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Posted: 02/03/24 7:57 pm ::: |
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Rock Hard wrote: |
jap wrote: |
This whole superteam concept is kind of disgusting. The idea of multiple stars banding together in an effort to significantly increase their chances for championship success seems to cheapen the very idea of championships.
It is one thing to build a team via careful drafting or a few key trades. However, this modern commitment to virtually guarantee championship gold by deliberately stacking yourselves with the very best players just seems so contemptible. |
The Miami Heat organization does not agree with your perspective. Neither does LBJ.🏆🏆 |
Who cares? Where is the Glory in beating up on teams with grossly lesser talent? How can anyone feel proud to be a 'champion' under such circumstances? It is like the Celtics with their 11 early championships where they grossly outclassed their opponents. If I as a grown man beat up on a bunch of kids, does that make me a "champion?"
_________________ Regards,
J A P
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 4638
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Posted: 02/03/24 10:56 pm ::: |
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It feels that we are at a stage where Super Team needs to be defined. So what qualifies as a Super Team?
Some ideas:
- Minimum 4 All Star Caliber players, caliber referring to their current quality, not a “once was”
- Minimum 1 individual taking a less than market value contract in order to accommodate contracts that otherwise wouldn’t fit under the cap
Open to other ideas/criteria.
So who are the Super Teams?
1. New York is the best fit of the above criteria largely because of the argument that they have 5 All Star caliber players at their current quality of play and have a high likelihood that Stewart and Jones playing below market value. Sloot could command max, but she isn’t far enough below the standard max to call out the discrepancy.
2. Las Vegas has four clear All Star quality players with Parker very potentially having the ability to be a fifth if she was focused on that above all else but with her decline in ability to consume minutes at a certain quality, she falls off that qualification. Wilson should be super max. Jackie could absolutely get a max contract but her current contract is reflective of her value when she signed it, so that is more in line. Parker was the bargain last year but she isn’t currently signed but I think it’s fair to assume she will but it’s also completely possible she will make more than last year by a decent amount so not ready to assess that.
3. Atlanta All Stars are Allisha, Rhyne, Cheyenne, and Canada (including Canada due to All Defensive 1st Team which feels close enough to All Star to me). Tina will have to prove her all star status, but I think $130k is a bargain for her nonetheless. This isn’t a clean Super Team but it’s not really a big stretch.
Tier Two
Dallas - Arike, Sabally, Howard are All Star caliber even if not all voted to an All Star team. No one is taking a big discount. Not a super team but they are in the upper echelon.
Phoenix - They don’t really have the plethora of All Star caliber. I don’t want Nygaard to knock me, but DT is not All Star caliber though she is still pretty good. Cloud is also All Star adjacent at best in spite of showing the ability to be All Star level at times. More roster change has to happen hear to be considered a Super Team.
Seattle - only three All Star Level types.
Indiana - not enough All Stars. They are overpaying wings not underpaying stars.
Minnesota - not enough All Stars. No one underpaid.
No One Is Confusing Us for a Super Team
Los Angeles
Chicago
Connecticut
Washington
EDD, Bri Jones, AT, DB, and Nneka will determine if anyone rises into the Super Team echelon. Seattle and Phoenix are one player away as long as they are both All Star caliber and take a below market contract. If Connecticut dismantles, their three stars could substantially change the outlook of multiple teams.
_________________ Some days are meant to be remembered.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 02/03/24 11:34 pm ::: |
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while not the hugest fan of super teams at least there there will be more than two contenders and
if EDD goes to PX and Ogwumike goes to Seattle there will be a top 6. Dallas is growing into a true contender, Atl made some interesting moves and Howard could take a superstar leap in year 3. And while there seems to be a lot of chatter about Conn rebuilding if Bonner and B. Jones stay put they have enough to stay in the top, they always find there way there. If not Bonner joining one of the above teams or Bonner and Ogwumike going to Chicago could make for an interesting pairing with Copper and Mabrey. And while Washington hasn't made a big move yet if they somehow trade for Bri. Jones (or Jonquel Jones decides she doesn't want to take less to find a way to get Anneka to the Liberty and the Mystics come Knocking) Washington will be back in the mix. And while they will probably be a season or two away An Indy team lead by Boston, Smith and Clark is going to get there and be a tough out even next season.
So yes not a fan of super teams but with a few more forming and growing 24 should be more competitive and exciting that 23 and expansion in 25/26 should even things out a little as well.
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 7939
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 1008 Location: Bing-town
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Posted: 02/04/24 12:42 am ::: |
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eyevolley4 wrote: |
2. Las Vegas has four clear All Star quality players with Parker very potentially having the ability to be a fifth if she was focused on that above all else but with her decline in ability to consume minutes at a certain quality, she falls off that qualification. Wilson should be super max. Jackie could absolutely get a max contract but her current contract is reflective of her value when she signed it, so that is more in line. Parker was the bargain last year but she isn’t currently signed but I think it’s fair to assume she will but it’s also completely possible she will make more than last year by a decent amount so not ready to assess that.
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Don't forget Alysha Clark taking a pay cut and playing way under market value.
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 4638
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Posted: 02/04/24 8:31 am ::: |
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I don’t think that Clark is playing that far under market value. I see it more as she is the type of player whose value grows exponentially when surrounded by a certain caliber of teammate. She isn’t forced to be a scorer - scorers get paid. She’s able to fill her niche and come across as high impact without having to stretch into areas that would make her come across as weaker.
Clark is very valuable to the Aces but paying her $175k won’t turn her into a 14ppg scorer on a team that has a chance to advance past the first round of the playoffs.
_________________ Some days are meant to be remembered.
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