View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
eclair
Joined: 20 Sep 2006 Posts: 3915
Back to top |
Posted: 08/15/12 12:57 am ::: |
Reply |
|
This thread is a reminder: Crazy controls the dialog if reasonable people aren't wiling to contribute. Cause there's a boatload of (angry) 2008 Crazy here.
_________________ Put a Bird on it.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19828
Back to top |
Posted: 10/02/12 5:14 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
pilight wrote: |
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/02/14185384-biden-says-middle-class-has-been-buried-over-the-last-four-years?
Quote: |
Biden argued that the GOP, in contrast, would raise taxes on a middle class that has "been buried over the last four years." |
|
Obama just needs to do what he did in '08.
Put away Biden. Take out Clinton.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Posts: 11050 Location: Lost in D.C.
Back to top |
Posted: 10/02/12 10:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
mercfan3 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/02/14185384-biden-says-middle-class-has-been-buried-over-the-last-four-years?
Quote: |
Biden argued that the GOP, in contrast, would raise taxes on a middle class that has "been buried over the last four years." |
|
Obama just needs to do what he did in '08.
Put away Biden. Take out Clinton. |
I think you're wrong. Biden actually is a very good campaigner. Besides, he's using (Bill) Clinton, too.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 09/17/14 4:33 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
http://news.yahoo.com/biden-says-shylocks-poor-choice-words-172530330--politics.html
Quote: |
People would come to him and talk about what was happening at home, in terms of foreclosures, in terms of bad loans that were being these Shylocks that took advantage of these women and men while overseas |
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 05/02/19 3:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
"I actually like Dick Cheney... I get on with him. I think he's a decent man."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8o3eapp4x0
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
Posted: 05/02/19 6:41 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
pilight wrote: |
"I actually like Dick Cheney... I get on with him. I think he's a decent man."
|
We need another thread for statements like this. Beyond a gaffe.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15759 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
Posted: 05/03/19 4:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I don't consider repeatedly lying so that you can convince the American public to allow you to bomb the crap out of another country, including untold thousands of soldiers sitting helplessly in the desert, as being decent by the standards of any period. But we are a country that spends a massive amount of money on the military and includes "foreign policy" in US political debates. "Foreign policy" being a euphemism for the "how willing will you be to drop bombs?" portion of the debate.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15759 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16382 Location: Chicago
Back to top |
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19828
Back to top |
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
Posted: 05/06/19 4:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Howee wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
I don't consider repeatedly lying so that you can convince the American public to allow you to......
________________???? ....as being decent by the standards of any period. |
1. ....enforce separation of migrant families with children.
2. ....keep American Muslims detained in Djibouti, away from their families cuz they're Muslim
3. ....spend huge $$$ on a "wall" instead of helping homeless American citizens in American cities
4. ....terminate health care for millions, cuz repealing Obamacare is good for your base's polling
5. ....go scot free from facing any consequences for your criminal activities
I agree....that Joe Biden is a TURD for saying Cheney was decent! |
I don't think that attacking Trump is a solid defense of Cheney.
Don't see that as being equivalent (or worse as you seem to be suggesting) than mass murder and destroying a country. Just think about sitting in the desert of Iraq forced to protect your country from a bunch of pathological politicians in America, while Colin Powell matter-of-factly tells reporters that the US Air Force is "softening up" Iraqi forces. That is, killing them all with bombs. Their kids will never see them again, unlike the illegal alien kids who will be reunited with their illegal alien parents as soon as some judge hears their unique-to-USA "crime asylum" claim. And the kids are separated because the Clinton administration and some judge decided that was appropriate - illegal alien kids can't stay long term in the same facility with illegal alien adults per a court settlement ("Flores decision").
A wall would help the homeless. Enforcing immigration law at the workplace would help them even more. As would trying to end and reverse job export. Because the Democrats have also embraced it, we forget that exporting jobs (particularly with Infinite Immigration Policy requiring ever more jobs each year) and hiring ILLEGAL workers for ILLEGAL wages and under ILLEGAL working conditions hurts American workers. As far as providing public care for the mentally ill and drug addicted, no president that I can recall has addressed that, even in their campaign rhetoric.
Muslims were not temporarily banned "because they were Muslim", as in it was only due to religious beliefs. There is the issue of the San Bernardino (and Pulse nightclub before implementation) and European massacres.
Whatever criminal activities Trump is guilty of, they don't carry the penalty of war crimes. Cheney would have been tried in The Hague, Netherlands and hung by now had he been on the losing side.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15759 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
Posted: 05/06/19 6:27 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
I don't consider repeatedly lying so that you can convince the American public to allow you to....as being decent by the standards of any period. |
It all comes back around to YOU casting aspersions on Biden cuz he once said Cheney is a 'decent man'. YOU seem to consider "repeatedly lying" as "not decent". By your simple logic, Trump is NOT a "decent man". You're free to admit that. Very simple.
By extension, Trump has called Kim Jong Un and Putin far more favorable things than "decent" men. He's extolled their virtues and sung their praises. Those 2 despots are responsible for more heinous deaths than the Iraqi war. Hence, Trump is FAR more despicable than Biden. Therefore, shame on YOU for casting stones at Biden for whomever he's praised.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
Back to top |
Posted: 05/16/19 3:47 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Howee wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
I don't consider repeatedly lying so that you can convince the American public to allow you to....as being decent by the standards of any period. |
It all comes back around to YOU casting aspersions on Biden cuz he once said Cheney is a 'decent man'. YOU seem to consider "repeatedly lying" as "not decent". By your simple logic, Trump is NOT a "decent man". You're free to admit that. Very simple. |
You cut out my full statement. Cheney didn't just repeatedly lie. He lied so he could commit war crimes. Cheney is more than just a liar.
Have you ever seen me defend Trump's character? Trump used to routinely stiff small business contractors, daring them to sue him for full payment. That's low character.
Biden called a war criminal a decent man. Bringing Trump up doesn't change that. A better way to attempt to defend Biden would be to point out that Cheney/Bush got re-elected after their war crimes and hardly any Americans consider them war criminals to this day. Either one could show up at a sports stadium and get cheers, not boos. Biden could be either showing himself to have the judgement of the vast majority of Americans, or is making a political decision to appear to agree with the majority of people.
Quote: |
By extension, Trump has called Kim Jong Un and Putin far more favorable things than "decent" men. He's extolled their virtues and sung their praises. Those 2 despots are responsible for more heinous deaths than the Iraqi war. Hence, Trump is FAR more despicable than Biden. Therefore, shame on YOU for casting stones at Biden for whomever he's praised. |
I don't see how Trump flattering Putin or Kim relates to me criticizing Biden. The biblical thing about "not casting the first stone" would be applicable if I had called a war criminal a decent man, like Biden did. I have never called a war criminal a decent man.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 12:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Hey Joe, why do schools in Iowa perform better than those in DC?
"There's less than one percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than four of five percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with."
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15759 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 1:01 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
I don't see how Trump flattering Putin or Kim relates to me criticizing Biden. The biblical thing about "not casting the first stone" would be applicable if I had called a war criminal a decent man, like Biden did. I have never called a war criminal a decent man. |
Very simple: IF you find Biden worthy of your aspersions re: his calling Cheney a decent man, AND it's in the context of criticizing a presidential rival to Trump, then give Fair Credit to Trump for doing far more egregious things, i.e., praising Kim Jong Un, Putin, White Supremacists, etc.
pilight wrote: |
Hey Joe, why do schools in Iowa perform better than those in DC?
"There's less than one percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than four of five percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with." |
Are you presenting this as a *bad thing*? Cuz it's the simple truth--Iowa sees HUGELY greater advantage in such things as educational quality than most urban settings, given how White Privilege operates.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 1:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
OK, I guess you do need the second half of the quote, wherein he places the blame squarely on the African American community...
"When you have children coming from dysfunctional homes, when you have children coming from homes where there's no books, where the mother from the time they're born doesn't talk to them - as opposed to the mother in Iowa who's sitting out there and talks to them, the kid starts out with a 300 word larger vocabulary at age three. Half this education gap exists before the kid steps foot in the classroom."
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15759 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 1:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
pilight wrote: |
OK, I guess you do need the second half of the quote, wherein he places the blame squarely on the African American community...
"When you have children coming from dysfunctional homes, when you have children coming from homes where there's no books, where the mother from the time they're born doesn't talk to them - as opposed to the mother in Iowa who's sitting out there and talks to them, the kid starts out with a 300 word larger vocabulary at age three. Half this education gap exists before the kid steps foot in the classroom." |
And again....he speaks truth. Maybe less than laying "blame" on the AA community, he's simply identifying where it is most prevalent: in the suppressed socio-economic strata of urban America.
I don't even know if Joe *gets* where and how the blame originates, going back to segregation/redlining/jimcrow/suppression, and if he DID, how does he present this to a White Privileged audience?
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 1:35 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Howee wrote: |
I don't even know if Joe *gets* where and how the blame originates, going back to segregation/redlining/jimcrow/suppression, and if he DID, how does he present this to a White Privileged audience? |
He said this in Washington, DC
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15759 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 1:48 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
pilight wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
I don't even know if Joe *gets* where and how the blame originates, going back to segregation/redlining/jimcrow/suppression, and if he DID, how does he present this to a White Privileged audience? |
He said this in Washington, DC |
Well, again....it's truth, and truth is relevant in any setting, regardless of its reception, no? Now, if it was a speaking engagement (I didn't see any source), who exactly was his audience?
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 2:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Howee wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
I don't even know if Joe *gets* where and how the blame originates, going back to segregation/redlining/jimcrow/suppression, and if he DID, how does he present this to a White Privileged audience? |
He said this in Washington, DC |
Well, again....it's truth, and truth is relevant in any setting, regardless of its reception, no? Now, if it was a speaking engagement (I didn't see any source), who exactly was his audience? |
Is it?
President Trump was asked today,
"Mr. President, why do think schools in Iowa perform better than those in DC?"
The president answered,
"There's less than one percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than four of five percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with."
What would your reaction to this statement be? My guess it would not be as forgiving as it is to Biden.
Yes, there is an underlying point Biden was probably trying to make. Yes there is a real issue with racial inequality that allowd predominantly white schools in less disadvantaged areas perform better than predominantly minority populated schools in resource straved urban areas. However, based upon how he phrased it, his statement is in and of itself racist as fuck. Whether he he said it, or Trump said it. Thus major gaffe.
_________________ ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16382 Location: Chicago
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 2:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
justintyme wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
I don't even know if Joe *gets* where and how the blame originates, going back to segregation/redlining/jimcrow/suppression, and if he DID, how does he present this to a White Privileged audience? |
He said this in Washington, DC |
Well, again....it's truth, and truth is relevant in any setting, regardless of its reception, no? Now, if it was a speaking engagement (I didn't see any source), who exactly was his audience? |
Is it?
President Trump was asked today,
"Mr. President, why do think schools in Iowa perform better than those in DC?"
The president answered,
"There's less than one percent of the population of Iowa that is African American. There is probably less than four of five percent that are minorities. What is in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with."
What would your reaction to this statement be? My guess it would not be as forgiving as it is to Biden.
Yes, there is an underlying point Biden was probably trying to make. Yes there is a real issue with racial inequality that allowd predominantly white schools in less disadvantaged areas perform better than predominantly minority populated schools in resource straved urban areas. However, based upon how he phrased it, his statement is in and of itself racist as fuck. Whether he he said it, or Trump said it. Thus major gaffe. |
It's not a gaffe if it's what he actually believes.
I have said before that there is a reason that Biden has failed at multiple presidential campaigns in the past. He won't hold up the scrutiny of a campaign. I just hope his support falls apart in time to not screw up the process.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15759 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 2:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
justintyme wrote: |
....his statement is in and of itself racist as fuck. Whether he he said it, or Trump said it. Thus major gaffe. |
Again, if you see it as a laying of 'BLAME', then perhaps it could be construed as racist. IT'S A MERE STATEMENT OF FACT. It's real, it's true. I certainly could not slam Trump for that statement, either, should he be bright enough for that level of insight.
Is it better, if faced with the question, that he offer some bullshit platitude? How ELSE might one frame an 'acceptable' response, please? I could see invoking insight into the socio-economic disparities that exist between urban and rural settings, but the coincidence of the racial divide is not....well, not a coincidence, is it?
Also, if you considered him racist, how come he's polling so well with African Americans?
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
Posted: 06/01/19 3:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Howee wrote: |
Also, if you considered him racist, how come he's polling so well with African Americans? |
I made no qualification as to whether or not he is racist. I stated his statement was racist as fuck. And it is.
There are predominantly African-American schools that do very well. There are predominantly white schools that are shit. Look at what his statement actually said. Don't read any assumptions into it about his meaning, about what he might have been trying to say, just what he actually said.
He said that the schools in Iowa do better because they don't have African-American students. In other words African-American students are inherently worse than whites. This is not factual, this is not a "hard truth" or a "hard reality" that we need to face, this is a racist generalization.
Hear the difference? He is not addressing any of the ways in which schools have failed minority students, or the failure of resource distribution or socioeconomic pressures. He skips all of the actual causal mechanisms which lead minority heavy school districts to generally perform worse than white ones, and instead breaks it down simply by the color of their skin.
It is like saying, why does Chicago have more crime than Des Moines? Well, they have more African-Americans, of course!
_________________ ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
|
|