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stever
Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 6918 Location: https://womensbasketballdaily.net
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Posted: 07/05/18 12:56 pm ::: Tina Charles in exile. |
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https://deadspin.com/tina-charles-came-home-to-win-a-title-instead-she-wou-1827301691
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As a result, Charles faces another crossroads in her career. She’s only signed through the end of the season, and after hearing the cheers of thousands on the court she dreamt of playing on, she now finds herself playing miles north of the city and with no guarantee that the Liberty will even remain in the area come 2019. Multiple sources familiar with her thinking made it clear that she won’t demand a trade in-season, but not one WNBA talent evaluator I spoke to was quite sure who’d say no to a deal between the Liberty and Mystics. Charles could play for her former Connecticut coach, Mike Thibault, with whom she’s still close. The Mystics could package some young players and picks—perhaps forward Ariel Atkins, guard Tierra Ruffin-Pratt, next year’s first rounder, and Emma Meesseman, an elite post player missing this season for overseas commitments—and put opponents in the impossible position of single-covering either Charles or Delle Donne. It wouldn’t be a bad deal for the Liberty, as they could start over with some young pieces, their own lottery pick—they’d be a lock without Charles—and Washington’s pick. |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24409 Location: London
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Posted: 07/05/18 1:02 pm ::: |
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That seems like a lot to pay for a potentially disgruntled player with limited likely destinations who's about to hit 30. It's arguably more than they gave up for Delle Donne. |
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Aladyyn
Joined: 23 Jul 2017 Posts: 1566 Location: Czech Republic
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Posted: 07/05/18 1:05 pm ::: |
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Meesseman AND Atkins? That's gotta be a no from me.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63947
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Posted: 07/05/18 1:08 pm ::: |
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If Brunson shows any signs of retirement (she could probably go for another season), Minnesota would be a perfect fit for her including a full-size upgraded arena plus a very high probability of winning a championship.
The Mystics, on the other hand, aren’t a great fit unless maybe she goes back to the center position, plus you’d have another questionable small arena situation.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16389 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 07/05/18 1:09 pm ::: |
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Why would any team give up that much for a proven malcontent who is likely to demand a trade again?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24409 Location: London
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Posted: 07/05/18 1:14 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
Why would any team give up that much for a proven malcontent who is likely to demand a trade again? |
If it got you a title, would you care? |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16389 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 07/05/18 1:21 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
Why would any team give up that much for a proven malcontent who is likely to demand a trade again? |
If it got you a title, would you care? |
Because Tina Charles has shown the ability to get a title?
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 07/05/18 1:38 pm ::: |
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Charles going to DC would force her back to the center position. She's hasn't really had to play the 5 since being in New York once Laimbeer came in. Tina doesn't seem to want to band around inside, so you have to wonder if she's willing to change how she plays to go there. Maybe Charles for Hawkins and their 1st rounder? I have to believe that if the Liberty are stuck in Westchester, this will be the future result, a bunch of rookies and washed up FAs.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12634 Location: Dallas , Texas
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/05/18 2:09 pm ::: |
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DC has been using Pringle and Thomas at C so it doesn't have to be a given that Tina would play C. It would enable EDD to move to the 3 spot. And it would give DC a very formidable "big 3" of Toliver, Tina and EDD. It would also take some scoring and rebounding pressure off of Tina, maybe increasing her longevity.
As for NY, man, you better get a lot for a player who is still a top 10 player. I'm not taking anything ridiculous though. I'd rather Tina sit out than take way below market value.
The larger scale trade above isn't bad but who's to say whether EM would even want to play for the Libs or not? The Liberty can still core Tina next year so unless she were to demand a trade it's still not going to happen. And going to DC to their small arena, while a clear step up from the garbage we are playing in, still isn't a major step up in terms of things like notoriety.
I respect Megdal and the article has relevance given the Libs' extremely poor play and the lack of contribution from her teammates on either side of the ball. That being said, it's still purely speculative.
Also, if the Libs wind up in the lottery, they have what, a 25% chance to get one of the top two picks? That's not a terrible deal, particularly if Ionescu comes out and you either luck into her or the post player of your choice. So, whatever Tina's thoughts might be right now, those thoughts could potentially change based on what next year's team looks like.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8193
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Posted: 07/05/18 2:19 pm ::: |
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Tina to Chicago for Gabby & the Sky's 2019 1st rd pk
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mavcarter #NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 5935 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 07/05/18 2:21 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
Why would any team give up that much for a proven malcontent who is likely to demand a trade again? |
If it got you a title, would you care? |
Because Tina Charles has shown the ability to get a title? |
So, you wouldn't do the deal if it were to get you a title?
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sigur3
Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Posts: 6191 Location: Chicago-ish
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Posted: 07/05/18 2:44 pm ::: |
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"Exile??"
This after she half-assed her way through the 2013 season because she was unhappy with management and then forced a trade to NY?
Hard pass on that, thanks.
Unless the WNBA gets involved, that's wayyyyyy too much for Washington to give up.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 07/05/18 2:49 pm ::: |
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zune69 wrote: |
Tina to Chicago for Gabby & the Sky's 2019 1st rd pk |
Tina wouldn't likely agree to go to Chicago. I'd think DC with Thibault would be the only option.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6828
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Posted: 07/05/18 3:02 pm ::: |
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I would rather just cross fingers for new ownership group that gets the Liberty back in the 5 boroughs in 19 but how about
Charles and NY's 2nd round pick for Hayes, IMS and Atl first round pick (trying to keep it reasonable).
I don't think Washington has the right pieces, Meesseman is too much of a risk, EDD and Toliver aren't going anywhere so you left with guards that aren't too different from what we have and a mid to late first round pick pick.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 07/05/18 3:05 pm ::: |
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I'm guessing it would be Tina for Meeseman plus one - either Atkins or SWK or TRP or maybe the first rounder. If it's a go-to-Washington and nothing else, you won't be so lucky as to get much more than that.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63947
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Posted: 07/05/18 3:06 pm ::: |
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Feeling a need for another guard, Spooner?
Hayes at NYL probably just becomes another Prince.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6828
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Posted: 07/05/18 3:21 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Feeling a need for another guard, Spooner?
Hayes at NYL probably just becomes another Prince. |
Not another a better guard.
We have a collection of decent-ish guards but today/right now Hayes is better than all of them.
Charles would be a great fit in Atl (not that I want any of this to happen).
NY also gets Atl's first round pick so #4NY and lets say #6ATL in 19 we get some nice exciting youth and some hope.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 07/05/18 4:03 pm ::: |
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My fear is the she would go ring shopping and head to the the Twin Cities or possibly Phoenix. Lynx would have a trouble finding tradable assets to give up, but that never stopped them from getting Fowles. Mercury likewise don't have any player they would give up remotely worth Tina so it's drafts picks which themselves won't be worth much.
Having said all that in the WNBA star player make the rules of their own.
As for the DC deal - seems roughly fair to me (maybe not including AA or the FRP - IDK) except that Emma may just decide herself to pass on the WNBA. She has less reason than anyone to play in the WNBA.
Who knows maybe this would be the time for owners to grow a backbone and just let her sit till she gets tired of sitting.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24409 Location: London
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Posted: 07/05/18 4:20 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Mercury likewise don't have any player they would give up remotely worth Tina |
Bonner? Probably wouldn't be too hard to make a separate deal to get Dupree to New York as well.
On Meesseman, this is the first WNBA season she's missed in the six years since being drafted at the age of 19. It's not the greatest time to trade her, because the current impression is 'flaky foreigner!', but she's been pretty reliable for quite a while outside of one season (on par with the likes of Taurasi, McCoughtry, Fowles etc.). She's also only 25 (the typical impression of a WNBA player who's been around as long as she has is 'approaching 30'). |
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6828
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Posted: 07/05/18 4:23 pm ::: |
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I don't see a move like this happening until the off season. NY fates would have tone determined first.
I assume she only signed her core contract 1 year deal.
New ownership back to NYC she stays
Team folds she becomes ufa and controls her own fate.
Team relocates somewhere she doesn't want to go or stays another season in Westchester limbo under league or current management she demands a trade.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 07/05/18 4:25 pm ::: |
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Charles for Bonner and the Mercury's first rounder? Dupree for Rodgers & Stokes?
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11225
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Posted: 07/05/18 4:31 pm ::: |
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Assuming there is a franchise, the owners will likely core her. She presumably would then say "I'm not playing unless I get traded to DC/Minnesota/wherever."
But since the team (call them the Liberty) won't be much better off taking a bad deal than having Tina sit, there's some leverage on both sides. (It's not like the Liberty will be competing for a title next year, with or without Tina -- especially if Katie Smith is still there.)
Question: If a player is cored and sits out, what's her contract status? Does that count as a year of coring, or is the year just erased?
Conceivably, the Liberty could just keep coring her and she would not be able to play in the WNBA again unless she played for them ... though the contract may preclude that.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6828
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Posted: 07/05/18 4:35 pm ::: |
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Could Charles and Wilson work as position-less front court?
Charles and NY 2nd round pick for Jefferson and LV first round pick.
NY gets a starting level pg when healthy and two lottery picks in 19 to rebuild and bring excitement.
Charles Wilson McBride is a contending core
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zune69
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 8193
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Posted: 07/05/18 4:38 pm ::: |
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Tina & Hartley to Dallas for Johnson & Powers.
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