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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 10983 Location: Sacramento, California
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 05/30/18 11:49 am ::: |
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This is beyond bizarre, and a stain on Southwest Airlines.
My daughter has a family of multiracial children and stepchildren whose skin shades and last names are all over the map. They would make this employee's head spin and I hope they never encounter him/her. For one thing, both my daughter and her husband have rather short fuses.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Brinx
Joined: 03 Oct 2013 Posts: 874 Location: CA
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Posted: 05/30/18 3:52 pm ::: |
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I guess Denver airport must be a big enough airport to require both passport and a birth certificate. It's almost suprising Lindsey has flown as much as she has and hasn't been asked for more than a passport for her baby. Her being asked to make a FB post as proof is bizarre. Seriously, in what world does a FB post prove anything security-wise.
I read that Southwest airlines did already apologize to Lindsey which is good. I also saw this on NBC local news (Los Angeles area) so I do think this is getting attention.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3519
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Posted: 05/30/18 6:08 pm ::: |
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I'm sure this was not airline policy, just one dufus FB-addicted employee. As Lindsay said in that article, "I suspect it was just one insensitive employee,” she said. “It hurt my feelings. It made me feel a little bit less than and it’s not okay.” Idiots are everywhere. Trying to pin this on Southwest or the airport is uncalled for.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 9020
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Posted: 05/30/18 8:24 pm ::: |
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I took the Facebook post to be an old one in which she had a reference to him being her son.
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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BallState1984
Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 1892 Location: Halfway between Muncie and West Lafayette
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Posted: 05/31/18 6:44 am ::: |
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I am not seeing the problem here. With the focus on preventing human trafficking and the potential of being a kidnap victim, the agent was in the right to ask questions. After reading the article, it appears the sunshine of common sense just melted a snowflake.
_________________ Terminally afffected with Our Girl Syndrome and proud of it!
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 05/31/18 11:40 am ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Unless I'm badly mistaken, a minor's passport includes the name of his/her parents. The whole thing could have been avoided had the employee looked carefully at both IDs. |
I don't see parent names on any of the child passport pictures I've looked at online
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 05/31/18 7:32 pm ::: |
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I say this as a Cal fan, and a fan of Lindsay Gottlieb.
This is a strange story if only because she was traveling with her fiancé. I am assuming the baby's last name is Martin, so if they were together there shouldn't have been an issue. As for her being asked a question, I can just imagine the story if someone had stolen a child (along with his passport) and was allowed to board a plane. Not knowing what was actually said or done by the desk agent, I really don't see a big problem. She wasn't detained, so while she may have felt uncomfortable it doesn't seem like there was any real offense.
It seems to me that Southwest Airlines management handled the situation well. Apologize (the customer is right) and use it for teaching purposes. Indeed I'm sure that if it weren't for Twitter this wouldn't have even been a story.
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BallState1984
Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 1892 Location: Halfway between Muncie and West Lafayette
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Posted: 06/01/18 6:55 am ::: |
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I should add if she was groped by TSA or otherwise harassed by the high school drop out that make up their agents, that would be more believable. I can think of very few things that are more useless than TSA.
_________________ Terminally afffected with Our Girl Syndrome and proud of it!
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67122 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/01/18 6:59 am ::: |
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BallState1984 wrote: |
I can think of very few things that are more useless than TSA. |
Facebook as a means of identification has to be pretty close
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 06/01/18 9:04 am ::: |
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Have to agree with you about TSA. The Man refers to them as "kabuki theater".
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1106 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 06/01/18 11:23 am ::: |
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BallState1984 wrote: |
I am not seeing the problem here. With the focus on preventing human trafficking and the potential of being a kidnap victim, the agent was in the right to ask questions. After reading the article, it appears the sunshine of common sense just melted a snowflake. |
I for one would be willing to trade being offended if the reason was the safety of a child. Hey I have experienced those same type of issues for far less. The thing is that a lot of us have to put up with things like this because of the times we live in. Many of those things border on the edge of total BS, but good lord this was about the safety of a child. Gottleib should get over herself and recognize the intent. I would laud that agent for her diligence. It's not like it was a person on the street coming to that conclusion, but someone who has obviously been alerted to watch out for and check suspicious situations.
People should remember this was an airport, where every thing is done with magnified security. Little old ladies are pulled out of line for extra security searches. Now that stuff is pure going through the motions BS. Still everyone lives with it. But Gottlieb feels offended when someone asks for verification of her relationship to her child. I guess this is the new thing. Lets see how many times we get to feel offended in order to get put on the victim list.
The thing is that Gottlieb is probably guilty of the very thing she believes her self to be a victim off. She is assuming she was targeted because of he son being mixed race. In doing this see implies it was a an act of racial bigotry. She is accusing the agent of a form or racial profiling. Perhaps the agent should feel offended as well. Maybe Gottlieb should apologize to her.
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bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014 Posts: 785
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Posted: 06/01/18 12:02 pm ::: |
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1 officious person seem to decide to take it up a notch. I guess it depends on the wording that person used.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3519
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Posted: 06/01/18 2:30 pm ::: |
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"A stupid person tried to use Facebook to ascertain my child's identity and I was offended by that even though nothing really egregious happened, and I'm famous so I can make an issue out of this because racism and airline behavior are hot-button issues right now."
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 06/01/18 7:12 pm ::: |
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What do they expect for a bag of peanuts.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 06/01/18 9:21 pm ::: |
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Last time I flew, which was 2 weeks ago, i had TSA pre-check, which is supposed to spare you the indignities. Nevertheless, at Dulles I got the full treatment, including a pat down, and had to take my shoes off and take everything out of my bag. When I got back on at the other end (Knoxville) a week later, they knew what “TSA Pre-check” means and I sailed through with none of the nonsense. Can someone please explain this? Or perhaps they should just explain it to the TSA goon squad.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 06/02/18 11:59 am ::: |
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It's quite amazing the tiny annoyances over which people hyperventilate these days.
"It hurt my feelings" (her words) so I'm going to make a huge deal out of it.
Life might be a lot easier and more pleasant if you just ignored that some people are jerks (or might be nice people who are just having a bad day) and simply move on and forget about it.
But hey, maybe it will help recruiting to play the "social crusader" role and get some free publicity.
I suspect parents who have had to deal with actual or potential kidnappings might have a different take on this.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1106 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 06/02/18 12:12 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Last time I flew, which was 2 weeks ago, i had TSA pre-check, which is supposed to spare you the indignities. Nevertheless, at Dulles I got the full treatment, including a pat down, and had to take my shoes off and take everything out of my bag. When I got back on at the other end (Knoxville) a week later, they knew what “TSA Pre-check” means and I sailed through with none of the nonsense. Can someone please explain this? Or perhaps they should just explain it to the TSA goon squad. |
Different airports seem to use different standards. If it is an International airport they probable are conditioned to be stricter. The fact that Dullus serve's DC might also play a big part. I have long suspected that the criteria they set for TSA agent hirings are methodical individuals who do not think outside of the box and just follow rules to the letter whether it makes sense or not.
I had a TSA agent make me leave through an exit door I did not come through and go though security even though I had a ticket that proved I had just exited a plane and was looking for my next connection. He did this just because approached close enough to read what the lettering on the door said. It was an exit. Now it doesn't open from the outside but that didn't matter. I almost missed my connection because I had to go through inspection again. Anyone with a modicum of common sense could have figured out that i didn't or couldn't have entered through that exit.
This will not change and we all just have to put up with it. I have an 80 year old sister, who traveled a lot and was constantly getting pulled out of line for that extra check, just because she somehow got on some sort of list by mistake. Once she figured it out she got it corrected, but not before she was subjected to their stupidity for a decade of traveling. Dealing with them, you have to assume that none of them have any common sense. I strongly suspect that possessing and utilizing common sense would disqualify you from getting hired.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 06/02/18 4:35 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
It's quite amazing the tiny annoyances over which people hyperventilate these days.
"It hurt my feelings" (her words) so I'm going to make a huge deal out of it.
Life might be a lot easier and more pleasant if you just ignored that some people are jerks (or might be nice people who are just having a bad day) and simply move on and forget about it.
But hey, maybe it will help recruiting to play the "social crusader" role and get some free publicity.
I suspect parents who have had to deal with actual or potential kidnappings might have a different take on this. |
You are right. People are much too easily offended and want to ascribe evil intentions when none may exist. But I would say the same of Gottlieb. She was annoyed and decided to tweet. I doubt any of this would have come out publicly otherwise. I wouldn't ascribe any motives to Gottlieb for her tweet anymore that the desk agent. As for the subsequent uproar, that is what the press does, and this thread shows that there is interest.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1106 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 06/03/18 12:56 am ::: |
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Calbearman--Very good point! It seems that the media wants to hold everyone accountable for any in the moment emotional utterance.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 06/03/18 4:09 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
However, do re-read my post about my daughter's family, whose skin colors and last names are all over the map. This has to do with parentage and remarriage, and they are a varying mixture of Caucasian, African-American, and Puerto Rican, with a smidgen of Native American thrown in somewhere for good measure. What is that same agent going to say if s/he encounters them in a group? Mass kidnapping? |
Well, if it was, and they hadn't checked, then people would have a reason to be outraged.
It's unfortunate we need to check for a lot of things today that forty years ago no one would have thought twice about, but that's the way the world has changed. And the the unfortunate reality is that if you fall outside of the "typical" or "expected" universe, then you're probably going to get extra scrutiny. Is it inconvenient? Probably. Is it annoying or even offensive to those confronted with extra scrutiny? Probably. Are many people far too quick to take offense? Certainly. Is it appropriate or even necessary to check? Very possibly. Can it be abused? Certainly, but the correct response to that is not necessarily to eliminate it entirely.
Based on the little known of the incident, I'm not convinced the inquiry was out of line. (I suspect the agent was offeing the FaceBook picture as one means of satisfying the ID, as in "do you have a facebook post of you and the child together"?) But what we don't know is what the two parties actually said to each other and whether either side unnecessarily turned a valid question into a confrontation.
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