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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16380 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 04/12/18 4:15 pm ::: |
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This seems like a spectacularly bad choice.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 04/12/18 4:39 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
This seems like a spectacularly bad choice. |
The more I sit with it, the more I like it.
Just the buzz it is getting around here and the excitement it is generating make it a solid choice. The inexperience gives me pause, but all the other intangibles are there in spades, and you can't argue with her pedigree and the coaches she has worked with.
I mean, it isn't like the Gophers will have some major topple if it doesn't work out. They are in a perfect position for a high-upside gamble.
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Hoopsmom
Joined: 05 Apr 2017 Posts: 680
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Posted: 04/12/18 4:47 pm ::: |
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I am very excited about coach Whalen. I know she does not have head-coaching or even assistant coaching experience. However, she has the “it” factor that has been missing here in Minnesota for several years. She will bring excitement and energy to this program that is sorely needed. In addition, Lindsay has been getting a lot of coaching experience while on the Lynx. Especially when she was injured last summer, you could see her giving her input and helping the coaches. If she surrounds herself with the right assistant coaches, I think this is a perfect chance for the Gophers to see what she can do.
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: 04/12/18 5:00 pm ::: |
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Hoopsmom wrote: |
I am very excited about coach Whalen. I know she does not have head-coaching or even assistant coaching experience. However, she has the “it” factor that has been missing here in Minnesota for several years. She will bring excitement and energy to this program that is sorely needed. In addition, Lindsay has been getting a lot of coaching experience while on the Lynx. Especially when she was injured last summer, you could see her giving her input and helping the coaches. If she surrounds herself with the right assistant coaches, I think this is a perfect chance for the Gophers to see what she can do. |
I'm interested to see who she hires for her staff. Depending on who they are, it will help me decide how this move feels.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 04/12/18 5:21 pm ::: |
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Myron Metcalf from ESPN tweeted this a few days ago, and I think he has a very good point:
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How many people know more about basketball than Lindsay Whalen? How many know more about Gophers basketball? Who is a better leader? Who knows more about succeeding as a young player at the collegiate level? She's coached her teammates for 30 years. Offer her the job. Now. |
Whalen probably wouldn't make sense for most major programs out there. But for the Gophers? For other schools in other states she is an intriguing future Hall of Famer who has a lot of basketball smarts. But in Minnesota, she is Lindsay Freaking Whalen. Imagine being a young Minnesota baller and having The Legend in your living room recruiting you. She gets to play with a stacked deck here.
Not to mention, how many season tickets do you think they just sold based on this announcement? Timing this hire with their new athletic village/training facilities...
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11215
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Posted: 04/12/18 7:54 pm ::: |
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All of that is great, but can she recruit? That's job one, two, three and four in college basketball.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 04/12/18 8:09 pm ::: |
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oopsie, wrong board.
Last edited by NoDakSt on 04/12/18 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 04/12/18 8:18 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
All of that is great, but can she recruit? That's job one, two, three and four in college basketball. |
She's Lindsay Whalen...
I don't know if it's possible to overstate what that means in Minnesota, and in recruiting Minnesota (and other regional) girls.
Regionally that is all that matters, her legend sells itself. Nationally, we will see. But being able to get the top local girls will put the Gophers ahead of the game for once.
Beyond that, she has a very magnetic personality. To have met her is to love her. With her pedigree on top of that and knowing exactly what the recruits are going through, she seems as good a bet as anyone and a better one than most for someone to take a chance on.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/12/18 10:32 pm ::: |
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Good hire. She knows Ohio players.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/12/18 11:04 pm ::: |
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Alecia Wilson is the new head coach at Pacific. https://t.co/Ww8bqVsFny
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 04/13/18 12:40 am ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
If she can score Bueckers as a recruit (and I don’t think she will), it’d would make the hire a whole lot palatable for me. |
http://www.startribune.com/hiring-of-lindsay-whalen-goes-beyond-public-relations/479598603/
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This is a great hire,” said Hopkins girls coach Brian Cosgriff, winner of six state championships. “It’s going to put Minnesota basketball back in prominence. You’re hiring a Hall of Fame player. She’s won at the WNBA level, she’s won at the college level, she’s an Olympian. How do you do better than that?”
Hopkins sophomore guard Paige Bueckers is one of the top players in the country. She is being recruited by every major program, including UConn. Bueckers has a signed Whalen jersey hanging in her room and a pair of Whalen’s game-used shoes that Whalen gave her a few years ago.
The Gophers had zero chance of signing Bueckers before Whalen’s announcement. Bueckers’ father, Bob, was asked if his daughter will look at the Gophers differently now.
“Absolutely,” he said. |
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“I remember how exciting it was when Whalen was playing in the Barn and how it energized everybody — the city, the state, girls’ basketball,” Bob Bueckers said. “It was incredible.
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BallState1984
Joined: 27 Aug 2006 Posts: 1892 Location: Halfway between Muncie and West Lafayette
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Posted: 04/13/18 6:35 am ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
This seems like a spectacularly bad choice. |
This smells like a Skippy Summitt hire.
_________________ Terminally afffected with Our Girl Syndrome and proud of it!
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snzuluz
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 195
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Posted: 04/13/18 7:06 am ::: |
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Steph White has found little to no success at Vandy...just because you are a great player and played on the professioal level does not mean you will be successful on the college level...
Whalen has NO experience coaching on a Division I level, let alone any level...she better hire REALLY good assistants who can take her hand and walk her through the coaching duties adn the realities of coaching at any level, let alone Division I in a major conference...
Most girls have no idea who she is as they most likely were not even born when she played at Minn or were infants...unless they are from Minn and not sure every girl in Minn knows who she is, unless their parents tell her.
AD's seem to be taking the easy way out thinking bringing back a past player will solve all the problems or bring their program back to glory...
Vandy was down when White took over, but they are not any better this year then last year...Whalen will be in the same boat!
If you want to be competitive in the Big 10 this might be a good hire...if your desire as the AD is to get back to national prominance and national championship, hiring someone who has never coached at any big time level seems to indicate, that is not Minn mission or desire.
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petrel
Joined: 26 May 2008 Posts: 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Joe Foss
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 Posts: 4066
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11215
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Posted: 04/13/18 10:36 am ::: |
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snzuluz wrote: |
Steph White has found little to no success at Vandy...just because you are a great player and played on the professioal level does not mean you will be successful on the college level...
Whalen has NO experience coaching on a Division I level, let alone any level...she better hire REALLY good assistants who can take her hand and walk her through the coaching duties adn the realities of coaching at any level, let alone Division I in a major conference...
Most girls have no idea who she is as they most likely were not even born when she played at Minn or were infants...unless they are from Minn and not sure every girl in Minn knows who she is, unless their parents tell her.
AD's seem to be taking the easy way out thinking bringing back a past player will solve all the problems or bring their program back to glory...
Vandy was down when White took over, but they are not any better this year then last year...Whalen will be in the same boat!
If you want to be competitive in the Big 10 this might be a good hire...if your desire as the AD is to get back to national prominance and national championship, hiring someone who has never coached at any big time level seems to indicate, that is not Minn mission or desire. |
As I don't live in Minnesota, I will take everyone's word that Whalen will automatically get 90% of the elite in-state talent. And since I don't live in Minnesota, how far will that group usually take a program?
But outside of Minnesota and maybe some contiguous states, Lindsay Whalen's appearance on the recruiting trail will be completely unremarkable, as there are a lot of coaches out there who have played and excelled in the WNBA, and that alone is not going to make anyone want to play for her. (And of course a significant number of elite players couldn't even tell you who won the WNBA title ...)
If Whalen can show more charm than she has exhibited during her career, then her success will help her, but Minnesota is far from a destination school and she is far from a household name. Again, maybe Minnesota kids will be enough to succeed in the Big 10, but this is a huge gamble, from my perspective.
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 04/13/18 11:48 am ::: |
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UCLA's Cori Close was announced as a coach for the Women's U18 Nationals, along with Jeff Walz and Natasha Adair. The Virginia message boards have said that it's rumored Close has interviewed for the head coaching job succeeding Boyle.
A very interesting couple of weeks for UCLA fans.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 04/13/18 11:56 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
If Whalen can show more charm than she has exhibited during her career, then her success will help her, but Minnesota is far from a destination school and she is far from a household name. Again, maybe Minnesota kids will be enough to succeed in the Big 10, but this is a huge gamble, from my perspective. |
I don't think anyone expects this hire to suddenly transform Minnesota into some national power. But, honestly, no matter who they hired this would have been the same. The goal is to get the coach that helps your program the most. And seeing the legs this hire has here in Minnesota, it has quickly silenced most of my concerns. I'm pretty much convinced that she was the best choice for this team at this point. What other hire would have hotten this amount of media attention, both locally (where it has been a huge story all over the local media, and will continue to be one) and nationally? That being said, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But that would have been the same no matter who they hired. There was no "sure thing" out there. So why not aim big? It's really not a gamble when there is little downside. Even if she utterly flops, the program would just be right where it currently is.
And while within the region Minnesota's almost fanatical relationship with the concept of #OneOfUs (of which Whalen is the queen) will do much of her work for her, I agree completely that she will still have to struggle with the normal recruiting barriers on the outside. That all said, I get the feeling you must've never interviewed Whalen. A lack of charm is not how most people who have spent time with her would describe her. And there is a difference between having played in the WNBA--and even excelling in the WNBA--and being a sure-fire future Naismith Hall of Famer who is widely considered one of the two best women point guards of all time. It won't do all the recruiting work for her, but it sure as heck is going to open more doors and have her taken more seriously from the get-go than the other options available for the Gophers.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/13/18 12:22 pm ::: |
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Point guards usually make good coaches, IMNSHO, because they've been trained and have learned to see the whole floor, and they are the "floor generals" for their teams. However, this does not necessarily translate into being good HEAD coaches, especially first time out. IF they have the sense and ability to surround themselves with good coaches for other positions, and especially to have good recruiters, then they can be very successful, but hiring an unproven (although very successful) player, great point guard though she may be, for a first job, is very risky. I don't know whether to applaud Minnesota or shake my head. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 04/13/18 1:57 pm ::: |
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It may seem an act of desperation to people on the outside but desperation is business per the usual for Gopher Athletics. If you're gonna crap the bed, crap it up big and own it.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11215
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Posted: 04/13/18 4:25 pm ::: |
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I have talked to Whalen, albeit a long time ago, and she was not a good interview.
But your points about the lack of downside are good ones, assuming that there's enough local talent to win some games -- because sooner or later, and mostly sooner, you have to win to recruit talent.
Not being on the road to recruit during the summer is also an issue, especially now that the fall viewing period is gone. Whalen needs to be in about 20 places at once this spring, but she's nothing if not a warrior, so as pointed out, there's a reward that goes with the risk.
Again, though, are there enough Minnesota/regional girls who will come to Minnesota because of Whalen to go .500 in the Big 10?
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bucks4now
Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 723
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Posted: 04/13/18 4:33 pm ::: |
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snzuluz wrote: |
Steph White has found little to no success at Vandy...just because you are a great player and played on the professioal level does not mean you will be successful on the college level...
Whalen has NO experience coaching on a Division I level, let alone any level...she better hire REALLY good assistants who can take her hand and walk her through the coaching duties adn the realities of coaching at any level, let alone Division I in a major conference...
Most girls have no idea who she is as they most likely were not even born when she played at Minn or were infants...unless they are from Minn and not sure every girl in Minn knows who she is, unless their parents tell her.
AD's seem to be taking the easy way out thinking bringing back a past player will solve all the problems or bring their program back to glory...
Vandy was down when White took over, but they are not any better this year then last year...Whalen will be in the same boat!
If you want to be competitive in the Big 10 this might be a good hire...if your desire as the AD is to get back to national prominance and national championship, hiring someone who has never coached at any big time level seems to indicate, that is not Minn mission or desire. |
White does have good quality assistant coaches and that hasn't helped yet. Joy Cheek is known for her recruiting, Peck has a NC. I agree, it doesn't guarantee success!
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LitePal
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 Posts: 613
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Posted: 04/13/18 4:45 pm ::: |
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[quote="ClayK"]I have talked to Whalen, albeit a long time ago, and she was not a good interview.[/quote]
ClayK, I also met and spoke with Whalen years ago and my experience mirrored yours. She had little to no personality. Yes, she might have changed but she struck me as one of those athletic prodigies who spent all their time honing their sport and were now unable to talk about anything but their sport. Will she be able to teach and lead off the court? Minnesota will soon find out.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 04/13/18 5:36 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Again, though, are there enough Minnesota/regional girls who will come to Minnesota because of Whalen to go .500 in the Big 10? |
To be competitive in the Big 10, yes. There is good talent here that has historically fled the state. If she keeps them home and draws others from the region there will be talent enough to be a potential force in the Big 10.
But to be competitive nationally, she will need to expand the programs' reach and bring in talent from outside.
But ultimately all her name does is open some doors for her. She will, in short order, need to prove that she can coach and sell the program. But the key for me is that this is true for all their potential hires. The Gophers weren't going to be able to bring in an established D1 coach from somewhere else.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 04/13/18 7:57 pm ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
I have talked to Whalen, albeit a long time ago, and she was not a good interview.
But your points about the lack of downside are good ones, assuming that there's enough local talent to win some games -- because sooner or later, and mostly sooner, you have to win to recruit talent.
Not being on the road to recruit during the summer is also an issue, especially now that the fall viewing period is gone. Whalen needs to be in about 20 places at once this spring, but she's nothing if not a warrior, so as pointed out, there's a reward that goes with the risk.
Again, though, are there enough Minnesota/regional girls who will come to Minnesota because of Whalen to go .500 in the Big 10? |
she needs to get some good assts who are good sales people and can recruit. And she probably needs to learn from Swoopes' mistakes ...
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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