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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67121 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 11/06/17 3:23 pm ::: Lieberman Award |
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http://www.hoophall.com/news/basketball-hall-of-fame-announces-candidates-for-2018-nancy-lieberman-award/
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The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame announced today the 20 watch list candidates for the 2018 Nancy Lieberman Award |
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67121 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 01/29/18 4:46 pm ::: |
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Narrow Watch List for 2018 Nancy Lieberman Award
http://www.hoophall.com/news/naismith-memorial-basketball-hall-of-fame-womens-basketball-coaches-association-narrow-watch-list-for-2018-nancy-lieberman-award
This list pisses me off. The only mid-major is Jessica Kovatch from St. Francis (PA), who is not a point guard. She's averaging 2.3 assists per game with a negative ATO. She's third on her team in assists. Meanwhile there's a real PG who's third in the country in assists, first in ATO, and who was on the preliminary list but is now missing. The least they could do is make the token mid-major someone who looks like a serious choice.
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63934
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Posted: 01/29/18 4:50 pm ::: |
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Narrowed down to 10 candidates
PLAYER NAME SCHOOL
Kia Nurse Connecticut
Lexie Brown. Duke
AJ Alix Florida St.
Katelynn Flaherty. Michigan
Kelsey Mitchell Ohio St.
Sabrina Ionescu Oregon
Jessica Kovatch St. Francis (PA)
Tiana Mangakahia Syracuse
Brooke McCarty Texas
Jordin Canada UCLA
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18064 Location: Queens
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Posted: 01/29/18 5:01 pm ::: |
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In what universe is Kelsey Mitchell a point guard?
pilight's brought up Kovatch as well, so I'm not going to repeat his point.
If they're going to have position awards for all five positions, they should really actually be for players who play the listed position.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8269 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 01/29/18 5:02 pm ::: |
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Kia Nurse might arguably be the best or most valuable player on UConn this season so far, but she's not the point guard except very occasionally. She's fourth on the team in assists. |
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12612 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 4076
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Posted: 01/29/18 7:34 pm ::: |
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Queenie wrote: |
In what universe is Kelsey Mitchell a point guard?
pilight's brought up Kovatch as well, so I'm not going to repeat his point.
If they're going to have position awards for all five positions, they should really actually be for players who play the listed position. |
This is not uncommon, sadly. Remember when Sims won it for Baylor when their PG was great passer Niya Johnson?
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18064 Location: Queens
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Posted: 01/29/18 10:39 pm ::: |
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Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
Queenie wrote: |
In what universe is Kelsey Mitchell a point guard?
pilight's brought up Kovatch as well, so I'm not going to repeat his point.
If they're going to have position awards for all five positions, they should really actually be for players who play the listed position. |
This is not uncommon, sadly. Remember when Sims won it for Baylor when their PG was great passer Niya Johnson? |
Oh, I know it's usually been an award for "that guard whose name we actually know", but the addition of the four other positional awards highlights the stupidity of their selections this time 'round.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67121 Location: Where the action is
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 01/30/18 1:08 am ::: |
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Plum got it last year which leads me to believe Mitchell will get it this year and Ionescu can have it the next two years.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8269 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 01/30/18 1:31 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Sydni Means |
I look at the D1 stats three or four times a week and I've been noticing her for over a month. Mercer has one of the top assisters, one of the top 3pt makers, and a great W-L record so far. |
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 1183
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Posted: 01/30/18 1:47 am ::: |
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I remember in 2004 when Nancy talked on a halftime show about Taurasi getting it, she said even though Conlon was the designated point, she considered Taurasi the playmaker in crunch time.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 01/30/18 2:53 am ::: |
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The bigger problem is trying to categorize each player into 1,2,3,4 or 5. Players fit into a team and the rolls of each player are determined not only by their own skills but by the players around them.
The Lieberman Award was originally given to the player who exemplifies "the floor leadership, play-making and ball-handling skills that personified Nancy Lieberman during her career." That at least gives a definition.
Now it is folded into a group of 5 awards, and as such is designated as a point guard award.
SDHoops wrote:
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I remember in 2004 when Nancy talked on a halftime show about Taurasi getting it, she said even though Conlon was the designated point, she considered Taurasi the playmaker in crunch time.
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Taurasi met the original definition, even if she wasn't always the "point guard."
It seems the Lieberman award should maintain its original criteria, and then make the Drysdale award the best guard not nominated for the Lieberman Award award.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67121 Location: Where the action is
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 01/30/18 1:24 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Narrowed down to 10 candidates
PLAYER NAME SCHOOL
Kia Nurse Connecticut
Lexie Brown. Duke
AJ Alix Florida St.
Katelynn Flaherty. Michigan
Kelsey Mitchell Ohio St.
Sabrina Ionescu Oregon
Jessica Kovatch St. Francis (PA)
Tiana Mangakahia Syracuse
Brooke McCarty Texas
Jordin Canada UCLA |
i told you it was a whackadoodle year.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8269 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 01/30/18 1:53 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose |
Ionescu should win. She's a great player.
I'm just extra salty because my team has one of the best PGs in the nation in Sydni Means. She's not gonna play at the next level because she's listed at 5'5 and in reality is only slightly taller than her own bobblehead. She's having a great year and is leading the team to one as well. 8.5 assists to 1.8 turnovers per game, the best ratio in the country. She deserves to be a finalist for this award. |
Mercer has a good team this year. I've seen a few of their games. Is this the best team they've had recently? |
It's probably the best team we've ever had. |
Mercer is currently the #1 team in the country in ATO ratio.
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-women/d1/current/team/472 |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67121 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 01/30/18 3:29 pm ::: |
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calbearman76 wrote: |
It seems the Lieberman award should maintain its original criteria, and then make the Drysdale award the best guard not nominated for the Lieberman Award award. |
That's part of the problem as well. The token mid-major on the Drysdale short list is Darby Maggard from Belmont, who is a point guard.
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7420 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: 01/30/18 4:51 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Narrowed down to 10 candidates
PLAYER NAME SCHOOL
Kia Nurse Connecticut
Lexie Brown. Duke
AJ Alix Florida St.
Katelynn Flaherty. Michigan
Kelsey Mitchell Ohio St.
Sabrina Ionescu Oregon
Jessica Kovatch St. Francis (PA)
Tiana Mangakahia Syracuse
Brooke McCarty Texas
Jordin Canada UCLA |
Sabrina or Katelynn for me. Lexie Brown is NOT a point guard. She's a scoring guard who likes to have the ball in her hands
_________________ Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 1380
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Posted: 01/30/18 7:21 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose |
Bird was the only Sophomore to win it and she did it 3 times after that, as good as Ionescu is she's not Sue Bird good, I think Mitchell will win the award. |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7865 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/30/18 7:34 pm ::: |
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So this is now the award for "The Best-Known Guard"?
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8269 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 01/30/18 7:55 pm ::: |
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Mitchell is fairly characterized as a point guard. She often brings the ball up, she controls the offense with her ball domination (for better or worse), is the team's leader in assists (94 to Doss' 74), and is second on the team in ATO ratio. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63934
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7420 Location: Durham, NC
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