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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 01/10/18 9:42 pm ::: |
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If we assume that Stevens and McCowan do not declare early for the draft out of the current batch of seniors four have to be taken before her for Gabby to fall out of the lottery. Who are those four players?
My guess
Wilson
Deshields
Mitchell
and
someone?
options for someone
Russell, L. Brown, Canada, Nurse, Nared, Vadeeva, Vivians, Billings
who should be in the lottery ahead of G. Williams? and why?
(And to be honest Deshields probably isn't on everyone's list of lottery locks and I'm sure there is a healthy percentage of posters who would take G. Williams before Deshields.)
I could see Russell as the 4th lottery pick because she is 6' 6" and is having the best season of her career. The only problem I have with that is while best available is a good way to go in the lottery if Chicago keeps 3 and 4 I'm not sure with Dolson and last year's #2 pick Coates coming in that they use a pick on a center. It is pretty much the same for Chicago with Sloot and Faulkner do they reach for a PG like Brown or Canada, (especially if Mitchell lasts until 3). I could easily see Chicago trading one of their picks, but if they keep both G. Williams seems like a pretty good fit for Chcago as one of those picks. I see Chicago picking Mitchell and Williams, now if Mitchel is gone that also adds some intrigue Chicago could take both Deshields and Williams but I'm not sure they would, maybe since you can play them at the 2 and the 3 and Deshields gives you more scoring. Deshields could take Cappie's spot and Williams could share the 3 with Copper or could experiment with Williams as an undersized 4 but I'm not sure Chicago would take both Diamond and Gabby at 3/4 which could switch things up a little. If I'm Chicago and I might reach I might consider Billings because PF seems like the spot of greatest need in Chi, but I would probably trade down to get Billings instead.
Now if Stevens or McCowan declare early I agree that Williams could be knocked out of the lottery. I actually did a mock with both declaring and I had Williams falling to #7, but until that happens or a trade is made I still see G. Williams at #4.
Last edited by J-Spoon on 01/10/18 9:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 01/10/18 9:54 pm ::: |
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#Occasionalwnbafan wrote: |
Gabby is a great defender, a good passer, a good rebounder, and has a high motor . . . |
. . . against college height, strength, speed players. No dispute. But she's being drafted to play against players of elite professional height, strength and speed. Whole different ball game, especially when she has to play forward because of her skill set.
#Occasionalwnbafan wrote: |
and still has a lot of potential to get better . . . |
. . .only if you think she's (a) going to grow three inches, and (b) at this stage of her playing days, suddenly develop an outside shot. The likelihood of either of those occurring is remote. So her realistic potential to improve in the two most critical areas is limited.
Nobody's contending she's not a terrific college player, particularly in the UConn system surrounded by top ten recruits. I'm just suggesting that her limitations are significant when considering her potential at the next level.
I don't know why that comes as such a shock. It happens in every sport every year.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12579 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63877
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Posted: 01/10/18 11:28 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
I don't see Williams as a lottery pick, but WNBA GMs often overdraft UConn players so she could go there. If Williams is available when my team drafts at #16, I'd be OK with them choosing her. |
Comedy
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63877
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Posted: 01/10/18 11:46 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
#1 Wilson
#2 Mitchell
#3 Deshields
#4. Vadeeva
#5. Russell
#6. Williams
#7. Billings
#8. Canada
#9 Nared
#10 Scaife
#11 Lexie Brown
#12 S.Thomas |
Vadeeva is too much of a wild card at this point to put that high.
Pokey really reached when she picked Cheyenne Parker at #5. Stating she wanted size for any position, could she reach for Russell at #2? That would shock me slightly, and 9 other GM's would be doing backflips (unless SEA or DAL had their hearts set on her).
I know Brown wants to go to the Sparks, but Scaife ahead of Brown? On what planet?
I know Reeve appeared to have scouted Thomas, but I hope she noticed how short she is. No 5'11 PF for us, Reeve. That would be a rocky start to your GM-ship.
No Nurse in the first round?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Last edited by Shades on 01/11/18 12:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 01/11/18 12:05 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
I don't see Williams as a lottery pick, but WNBA GMs often overdraft UConn players so she could go there. If Williams is available when my team drafts at #16, I'd be OK with them choosing her. |
Outside of Mosqueeda-Lewis and Faris, who was overdrafted?
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 01/11/18 12:08 am ::: |
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This one is just for fun and doesn't count as one of my mocks, including Stevens and McCowan
1. LV Wilson
2. Ind Stevens
3. Chi Mitchell
4. Chi McCowan (so much for my theory of not picking a Center)
5. Sea Russell
6. Dallas Deshields
7. Was G. Williams
8. PX Billings
9. Conn Nurse
10. NY Nared
11. LA Vadeeva
12. Minn L. Brown
13. LV Vivians
14. Ind Canada
15. Conn Mavunga
16. Atl Hines-Allen
17. Sea Scaife
18. Dallas S. Thomas
19. Was Greenwell
20. PX Atkins
21. Conn Jensen
22. NY Muldrow
23. LA McPhee
24. Minn Goodwin
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5401 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 01/11/18 12:08 am ::: |
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If a player can't shoot then she is a subpar basketball player. Now if she can shoot threes like layups then she has to be an outstanding player! The Storm used this same logic drafting one of greatest three point shooters in UCONN history. The Storm wished they had three more players like Lewis.
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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blaase22
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 4164 Location: Paradise
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Posted: 01/11/18 12:15 am ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
I don't see Williams as a lottery pick, but WNBA GMs often overdraft UConn players so she could go there. If Williams is available when my team drafts at #16, I'd be OK with them choosing her. |
Outside of Mosqueeda-Lewis and Faris, who was overdrafted? |
hartley, swanier and montgomery.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12579 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 01/11/18 1:48 am ::: |
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blaase22 wrote: |
CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
I don't see Williams as a lottery pick, but WNBA GMs often overdraft UConn players so she could go there. If Williams is available when my team drafts at #16, I'd be OK with them choosing her. |
Outside of Mosqueeda-Lewis and Faris, who was overdrafted? |
hartley, swanier and montgomery. |
Barbara Turner, Ashley Battle, Tamika Williams.
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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TotalCardinalMove
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 1467
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Posted: 01/11/18 1:58 am ::: |
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In hindsight, there are also UConn players that were underdrafted. Hayes and Stokes come to mind. Even Chong managed to take a roster despite many thinking she had no chance.
Faris was picked 11th I believe, only 3 players selected after her are still in the WNBA currently. I wouldn’t say she was overdrafted, especially since she lasted longer than some of the players selected before her. Hartley was 7th in her draft, and there aren’t many players selected after her that still have a job in the WNBA. In hindsight, Gray should’ve been picked before her, but at the time she was rehabbing and would be forced to sit out that season. Achonwa was going through a similar situation. It’s easy to say someone was “overdrafted”, but at the time those teams could’ve done a lot worse considering what was picked up after.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 01/11/18 3:09 am ::: |
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It is kind of the same with Montgomery to a lesser extent,
The two best players drafted after Montgomery are Bonner and January yes they have had better careers than Montgomery but not too much better. The next tier is Zelous, Paris and Vaughn, I think Montgomery's career compares pretty favorably to theirs.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 01/11/18 7:58 am ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
I don't see Williams as a lottery pick, but WNBA GMs often overdraft UConn players so she could go there. If Williams is available when my team drafts at #16, I'd be OK with them choosing her. |
Outside of Mosqueeda-Lewis and Faris, who was overdrafted? |
Certainly not Tiffany Hayes.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24401 Location: London
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Posted: 01/11/18 9:02 am ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Certainly not Tiffany Hayes. |
That's the most memorable time to me that groupthink just decided a player wasn't that good. I had barely seen her play, but looked down a list of the draft prospects that year and literally asked people "why the hell isn't she higher up everyone's draft boards?" She had great numbers (like 50% from the field, 40% from three good), with significant volume, on a good team. It never made much sense to me that everyone had her so low, and that played out in the pros.
One of those rare occasions where doing no scouting whatsoever and just looking at the numbers would've helped the selection process. |
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mavcarter #NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 5935 Location: Chicago
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 01/11/18 1:04 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
Nixtreefan wrote: |
Exactly the point even though you just don't like Uconn. Thomas would never be recruited by Uconn and if they had made a mistake of taking her she probably would have transferred as they wouldn't play her. Heck Stanford would never recruit a player like Thomas and I don't think Notre Dame would and a lot of other schools. Williams would never have sat the bench at Florida State due to her work ethic. |
I don't know about "never", but I don't recall any of those schools ever recruiting players from rural Alabama. As one might expect, she was recruited mostly by schools in the South including Baylor, Tenn, Maryland, KY, etc. I don't think there was anything about her that meant those coaches you mentioned would "never" have recruited her. I will point out that none of those three recruited Azura Stevens either. How's that fit with your broadside at Thomas? Must be something wrong with Stevens too, by your logic.
As for USA basketball, you know as well as I that politics and "play OUR way" has as much to do with it as basketball skill. But I'll point out that at the Junior National trials, Prospects Nation wrote of Thomas
"Florida State forward, Shakayla Thomas, brings an abundance of energy and athleticism to the floor when she plays. Her athletic advantages are clear on both sides of the ball as she is at her best playing in transition and attacking the rim. In a room full of high-level athletes, Thomas might be the best one in the building." |
Clearly you didn't get my gist but then again I thought you knew everything
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 01/11/18 1:05 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
Nixtreefan wrote: |
Exactly the point even though you just don't like Uconn. Thomas would never be recruited by Uconn and if they had made a mistake of taking her she probably would have transferred as they wouldn't play her. Heck Stanford would never recruit a player like Thomas and I don't think Notre Dame would and a lot of other schools. Williams would never have sat the bench at Florida State due to her work ethic. |
A Bit off topic , question is If Shakayla were a huskie & Gabby was a Nole would you have Gabby as a lottery pick ? Yes or no , not getting into why they would not recruit her blah blah blah thats avoiding the question. |
Check your DM
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 01/11/18 7:56 pm ::: |
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ZZZZZZZZZZZ err what was that, I need an empty gazed emoji.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 18815
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Posted: 01/12/18 7:29 am ::: |
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Gabby Williams = Armintie Price in the W
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 01/12/18 8:01 am ::: |
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dtsnms wrote: |
Gabby Williams = Armintie Price in the W |
So you're predicting Rookie of the Year for her?
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 1380
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Posted: 01/12/18 8:26 am ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
dtsnms wrote: |
Gabby Williams = Armintie Price in the W |
So you're predicting Rookie of the Year for her? |
We get it AB23 you don’t like Gabby, just like you said she is a good college defender, yet she shut down the only 2 players on ND roster with pro potential, so when she has to guard those 2 players at the next level, atlest she will look like a great defender. |
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24401 Location: London
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Posted: 01/12/18 8:32 am ::: |
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dtsnms wrote: |
Gabby Williams = Armintie Price in the W |
So you think more a SG/SF than the SF/PF of an Alyssa Thomas? Because the more perimeter-focussed she is the more the lack of range becomes an issue. Much as I loved Price/Herrington and the positive elements of her game, her complete inability to hit a shot from beyond three inches was a significant problem for many teams she was on. |
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 18815
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Posted: 01/12/18 11:23 am ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
dtsnms wrote: |
Gabby Williams = Armintie Price in the W |
So you're predicting Rookie of the Year for her? |
You know how I meant it Art. That was a lean year Armintie won ROY
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