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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 11/15/17 11:49 am ::: |
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MSG just seems to be falling apart right now.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/15/17 12:03 pm ::: |
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If Dolan was smart he'd just trade them off as a cheap bargaining chip to get the city and state to build him a new practice facility and 4,000 seat arena in Staten Island.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/15/17 12:20 pm ::: |
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I don't get all the comments about expecting people to jump in just because they can "afford" it.
Yeah there are thousands of people in NY who could "afford" to buy them. Now tell us what your pitch would be to them to convince them that they should throw their money down this hole.
I understand the image importance, but NY is also the most expensive city in which to operate (and without a captive arena in which to play is probably prohibitively expensive) and also the most unaffordable for players to live on their tiny salaries.
As an aside, I saw an article that said Dolan/MSG is the last original owner. Is that true? I'm not the WNBA historian.
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jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 357 Location: Big Apple
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Posted: 11/15/17 12:47 pm ::: |
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It's not gonna a happen but imagine Laimbeer and his Vegas team playing a game in a new arena off the strip owned by MSG.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24408 Location: London
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Posted: 11/15/17 1:02 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
As an aside, I saw an article that said Dolan/MSG is the last original owner. Is that true? I'm not the WNBA historian. |
Well only three of the original eight teams still exist (plus Utah are now technically Las Vegas). LA have had multiple owners, and Jerry Colangelo sold the Suns/Mercury to Sarver over a decade ago. So unless you count Cablevision/MSG as different companies, or worry about the various twists of the Dolan family, I guess they're the last original owner, yeah. |
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 11/15/17 1:22 pm ::: |
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Could the league potentially take over the team if Dolan plans to fold the team if a new ownership group isn't found? If the schedule is delayed, we'll know something is being worked out. I just wish there was inside info and just more info regarding the whole situation.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63934
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Posted: 11/15/17 1:27 pm ::: |
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Does he say there's a deadline for selling the team?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 11/15/17 2:17 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Does he say there's a deadline for selling the team? |
No.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/15/17 5:03 pm ::: |
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The league likely COULD take over the team temporarily, but why WOULD they if there were no new owners on the horizon, and if no one stepped up to buy it from MSG, why would they expect them to show up afterwards?
The league would have the same problem as new owners of finding any place economically feasible in which to play their games. I expect both MSG and Barclays in the open market are way out of the WNBA's price range.
The white knight would be to convince Mikhail Prokhorov to buy the team. Maybe he could split the games between Barclays and Nassau, both of which he controls.
I don't suppose he's one of the Russian oligarchs that throws money at a women's team in Russia as a plaything, is he? Maybe he could adopt that model in the US too.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 11/15/17 5:38 pm ::: |
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I still wonder if things get desperate if the league contacts Joe Lacob. The league could take over the team for 2018 and work something out to have the team relocate to San Francisco for 2019.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/15/17 6:07 pm ::: |
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toad455 wrote: |
I still wonder if things get desperate if the league contacts Joe Lacob. The league could take over the team for 2018 and work something out to have the team relocate to San Francisco for 2019. |
If the league does that who foots the bill? Other owners? The NBA? Does the WNBA have any money of its own?
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 11/15/17 6:14 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
I still wonder if things get desperate if the league contacts Joe Lacob. The league could take over the team for 2018 and work something out to have the team relocate to San Francisco for 2019. |
If the league does that who foots the bill? Other owners? The NBA? Does the WNBA have any money of its own? |
The league took over the Charlotte Sting for one season(2003) until the Charlotte Bobcats took over in 2004. If a deal with Lacob, or another ownership group, can't be done in time, I see the league holding onto the team until a deal is finalized. Question would be, would they still play at MSG?
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12612 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 11/15/17 6:41 pm ::: |
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Ay Mate wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
Swin cash live on IG sounding very optmistic that New york are not going anywhere as though she has some type of inside information in which i would believe. She stated look out for the next few days or weeks for new information regarding the liberty . Makes me think something is in the works ! |
Where can I view this? |
It was on her instagram live feed , not sure if it gets archived after 24 hours .
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12612 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 11/15/17 6:52 pm ::: |
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toad455 wrote: |
If the Liberty were to fold, it would be the near death of the league. Similar to if the Sparks were to fold. Not having a team in New York would bring the league down a tier and basically make it look like a start-up league. For a league that's been around for 22 seasons, it doesn't seem like they've made much progress in terms of solid ownerships. |
I think the league could survive without a team in the NYC market , but i do agree it would bring the W's prestige down a tier .
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/15/17 7:01 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
I still wonder if things get desperate if the league contacts Joe Lacob. The league could take over the team for 2018 and work something out to have the team relocate to San Francisco for 2019. |
If the league does that who foots the bill? Other owners? The NBA? Does the WNBA have any money of its own? |
Other owners through the league, but depending on the cost of an arena, I would think that cost would be minimal or close to break even. The problem with the Liberty remains where to play once separated from MSG, and the cost of a NY area arena.
It's happened in other leagues too. MLB even owned the Washington Nationals for four years while they selected a new owner for the Expos.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 11/15/17 7:17 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
If the Liberty were to fold, it would be the near death of the league. Similar to if the Sparks were to fold. Not having a team in New York would bring the league down a tier and basically make it look like a start-up league. For a league that's been around for 22 seasons, it doesn't seem like they've made much progress in terms of solid ownerships. |
I think the league could survive without a team in the NYC market , but i do agree it would bring the W's prestige down a tier . |
I don't think so. Did some numbers using attendance averages from 2017, and with the Mystics moving to their new 4,200 seat arena in 2019, the league would average just 7,194(an all time low). A drop of 523. And this is without knowing what Las Vegas will bring in. Losing a team that averages nearly 10k would drastically hurt the league in the long run.
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Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/15/17 7:34 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
Randy wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
I still wonder if things get desperate if the league contacts Joe Lacob. The league could take over the team for 2018 and work something out to have the team relocate to San Francisco for 2019. |
If the league does that who foots the bill? Other owners? The NBA? Does the WNBA have any money of its own? |
Other owners through the league, but depending on the cost of an arena, I would think that cost would be minimal or close to break even. The problem with the Liberty remains where to play once separated from MSG, and the cost of a NY area arena.
It's happened in other leagues too. MLB even owned the Washington Nationals for four years while they selected a new owner for the Expos. |
The cost to the league would depend a lot on what MSG charges the Liberty to play in their arena, or what it would cost if they had to play somewhere else. If it is close to break even why is Dolan wanting to sell it?
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12612 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 11/15/17 7:59 pm ::: |
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toad455 wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
If the Liberty were to fold, it would be the near death of the league. Similar to if the Sparks were to fold. Not having a team in New York would bring the league down a tier and basically make it look like a start-up league. For a league that's been around for 22 seasons, it doesn't seem like they've made much progress in terms of solid ownerships. |
I think the league could survive without a team in the NYC market , but i do agree it would bring the W's prestige down a tier . |
I don't think so. Did some numbers using attendance averages from 2017, and with the Mystics moving to their new 4,200 seat arena in 2019, the league would average just 7,194(an all time low). A drop of 523. And this is without knowing what Las Vegas will bring in. Losing a team that averages nearly 10k would drastically hurt the league in the long run. |
Welp we have had multiple discussions on how the league would fair without the low dwellers of the league in your opinion (dallas) , but not once was it considered that maybe the team reportedly doing so well would possibly not be around anymore . As a business the league would need to adjust and continue to show its product. 1 team does not make or break the league as we saw with the 4 Time champion houston comets . The league survived and carried on business as usual as im sure would be done if NY were to fold or LA . Id hope that someone steps up and takes control of the situation though !
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9776
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Posted: 11/15/17 8:05 pm ::: |
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toad455 wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
toad455 wrote: |
If the Liberty were to fold, it would be the near death of the league. Similar to if the Sparks were to fold. Not having a team in New York would bring the league down a tier and basically make it look like a start-up league. For a league that's been around for 22 seasons, it doesn't seem like they've made much progress in terms of solid ownerships. |
I think the league could survive without a team in the NYC market , but i do agree it would bring the W's prestige down a tier . |
I don't think so. Did some numbers using attendance averages from 2017, and with the Mystics moving to their new 4,200 seat arena in 2019, the league would average just 7,194(an all time low). A drop of 523. And this is without knowing what Las Vegas will bring in. Losing a team that averages nearly 10k would drastically hurt the league in the long run. |
Why would a decline in average announced attendance of 523 drastically hurt the league?
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 11/15/17 8:16 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
The cost to the league would depend a lot on what MSG charges the Liberty to play in their arena, or what it would cost if they had to play somewhere else. If it is close to break even why is Dolan wanting to sell it? |
Never look for logic in the decisions made by the awful Jimmy Dolan. And remember that this is a guy who was handed a silver spoon and built nothing himself.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 11/15/17 8:43 pm ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
Randy wrote: |
The cost to the league would depend a lot on what MSG charges the Liberty to play in their arena, or what it would cost if they had to play somewhere else. If it is close to break even why is Dolan wanting to sell it? |
Never look for logic in the decisions made by the awful Jimmy Dolan. And remember that this is a guy who was handed a silver spoon and built nothing himself. |
He can make a LOT more money on concerts and other events and he's under a lot of pressure from other shareholders to improve the price and performance of MSG.
This is a business, not a charity. And it's not just his money. It's a publicly traded corporation. Indeed, 85% of MSG stock is held by institutions. The Liberty are a far underperforming asset. It makes perfect sense to dump them.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/15/17 9:08 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
Bob Lamm wrote: |
Randy wrote: |
The cost to the league would depend a lot on what MSG charges the Liberty to play in their arena, or what it would cost if they had to play somewhere else. If it is close to break even why is Dolan wanting to sell it? |
Never look for logic in the decisions made by the awful Jimmy Dolan. And remember that this is a guy who was handed a silver spoon and built nothing himself. |
He can make a LOT more money on concerts and other events and he's under a lot of pressure from other shareholders to improve the price and performance of MSG.
This is a business, not a charity. And it's not just his money. It's a publicly traded corporation. Indeed, 85% of MSG stock is held by institutions. The Liberty are a far underperforming asset. It makes perfect sense to dump them. |
It seems that the 17 or so nights at MSG are the real asset and worth far more than the Liberty - if the league takes the team over, why would he give those up?
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6827
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Posted: 11/15/17 9:24 pm ::: |
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I would love to see the Liberty play at the Barclay center in Brooklyn. It is really easy to get to, the neighborhood has great bars, restaurants, shopping and entertainment, and would be popular with W fans IMO.
But I'm sure there has to be either some college stadium, or smaller stadium in the five boroughs that would find it a financial boon to fill its seats in the summertime.
I have faith something will work out (come on Swin don't let us down with your tease) and the Liberty will stay in NY and play somewhere decent. (I wouldn't even be shocked if they ended up becoming independent and staying in MSG possibly scheduling there home games on the lowest value nights MSG has, but there have to be other options, this will all be OK in a couple of weeks IMO I hope.)
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 11/15/17 9:46 pm ::: |
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My hope really is falling on Cash's comment yesterday that something is currently being worked out and an announcement should be out shortly.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 11/15/17 9:48 pm ::: |
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I think they could pull 10k a night at Barclay’s. Brooklyn gets behind its teams.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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