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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67146 Location: Where the action is
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 05/13/17 1:32 pm ::: |
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What players do in preseason games is not the most important part of evaluation. Players are evaluated on all sorts of measures and most of those have to do with potential upside and position within a team. It is foolish to suggest that decisions are uniformly made in advance. There are 12 teams that are all looking for talent that can help them win. Some do it better than others, but all are trying to win. I loved watching Sam Prahalis in college, and it also helps that she grew up within 20 miles of where I did. But with her size it was always a long shot that she could really make it in the WNBA. She is a liability on defense and would need just the right situation where a team could use her offensive skills while hiding her defense.
As for Chelsea Hopkins, I'm sure she knew she had little chance of making the Sparks, but perhaps her showing in camp might lead to a 10 day contract with them (or another team) if they have a need during the season. And sometimes through force of will a player who wasn't given much of a chance to succeed eventually makes it (Alysha Clark).
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 05/13/17 1:33 pm ::: |
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double post
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 05/13/17 1:39 pm ::: |
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I doubt if Brian Agler knew that Ify Ibekwe was going to be on the final roster when she was invited to camp.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24412 Location: London
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Posted: 05/13/17 1:47 pm ::: |
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Yeah, there are always going to be at least 7 or 8 players nailed on to make the team before camp even starts. In Hopkins's case it was going to be an uphill struggle, because Gray, Sims, Williams, Beard and Carson werent going anywhere (and with Parker and Lavender arriving late they had to keep at least three other posts to start the season). That's not many spots left to fight over for a guard (and Wiese is inevitably going to have something of a leg up thanks to being LA's first-round pick).
Basing anything on preseason boxscores is an absolute nonsense. We don't even get to see these games, and whether - for instance - Player X couldn't guard anyone to save their life. Or kept forgetting and screwing up sets but hit a bail-out prayer shot afterwards. Not to mention the weeks of practice sessions the coaches get to see them play in, and the off-court assessments of whether they fit with the team. |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11227
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Posted: 05/13/17 2:05 pm ::: |
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Preseason games count for almost nothing ...
You have four years of college play to evaluate, plus two weeks of camp, plus overseas play (if that has happened), and so the 20 minutes against non-WNBA players just doesn't measure up.
I'm not saying players aren't predetermined to make it or not, just that preseason games are not much of a tool for evaluation, especially since so many starters aren't around.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Jet Jaguar
Joined: 11 Feb 2014 Posts: 1111
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Posted: 05/14/17 12:23 am ::: |
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Preseason counts for almost nothing. As does the camp. Camp is just to get reps in and work on plays and chemistry. They know who they want before it starts, with the possible exception of 1 or 2 spots. And it DOES NOT MATTER what a player does if a position is already decided on. The fact is they brought Chelsea Hopkins to camp knowing full well that they were not going to pick her no matter what she did or what they saw out of her. They knew they were going with Sims, Gray, Beard, Williams, Carson, and their rookie. If Hopkins looked better and outplayed everyone or looked bad and played like shit, it wouldn't have mattered either way. She was there to fill out the camp. So basically they just wasted her time. They should have just told her off the bat she wasn't making the team, would have saved her time and aggravation. If teams actually fairly evaluated players and brought in the most skilled players to camp and kept the most skilled, there would be many different players in the WNBA than there are right now. I'm sorry if you don't believe that, but that's the God's truth.
_________________ Oderint dum metuant - Let them hate, so long as they fear
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6831
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Posted: 05/14/17 3:50 am ::: |
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"Except for one or two spots" still means that some players can use camp and pre-season games to make a difference for themselves.
Look at Minnesota Ting may have started as an experiment but may very well have player her way onto the team. When they traded for Osahor it seemed like a spot was going to go to her or Fagbenle and so in their case the camp and even the pre-season games may very well have made a difference for who they ended up selecting. They actually traded for Osahor and Fagbenle had missed the previous camp so it wasn't like they had any sort of greater loyalty to one or the other.
In NY it looked pretty certain that L. Allen was at the front of the pack for the 12th spot, but in camp and pre-season games Burdick and Raincock-Ekunwe out performed her, so the team kept both and decided to go into a different direction. Had Burdick and Raincock-Ekunwe not showed up and showed so well, they might not be in the W tonight, so it is possible to play your way onto a team in the pre-season.
In Dallas it almost looked like Bias played herself off the team in the pre-season games by having two poor showings. I know Uconn has its pull but I doubt it extends to a 3rd round pick any more than a 4th year player the team had just given an extension. ANd Thorton got kept over Hooper probably for her strong camp and pre-season game performance.
D. Adams had a great showing in the pre-season games for The Sun and I'm sure that factored in to her jumping ahead of Hamson, Pedersen and R. Gray who they traded to get in the first place.
IN SA S. Holmes had a nice pre-season which was enough to get kept on for a game or two until Jefferson, Plum and McBride are playing and maybe it will be enough to beat out A. Montgomery or Peters, maybe not, but it is her pre-season performance that got her to this point at least.
Hopkins was in a bad situation because there were too many locks ahead of her. Had she gone to say Atl, Dallas, SA or even Chicago with Faulkner out for the season and Sloot missing time she may very well have been able to play her way into that 11th or 12th spot.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 05/14/17 6:23 am ::: |
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Releasing Hopkins was dumb. She's better than at least 3 guards on the Sparks' roster.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11227
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Posted: 05/14/17 10:28 am ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
"Except for one or two spots" still means that some players can use camp and pre-season games to make a difference for themselves.
Look at Minnesota Ting may have started as an experiment but may very well have player her way onto the team. When they traded for Osahor it seemed like a spot was going to go to her or Fagbenle and so in their case the camp and even the pre-season games may very well have made a difference for who they ended up selecting. They actually traded for Osahor and Fagbenle had missed the previous camp so it wasn't like they had any sort of greater loyalty to one or the other.
In NY it looked pretty certain that L. Allen was at the front of the pack for the 12th spot, but in camp and pre-season games Burdick and Raincock-Ekunwe out performed her, so the team kept both and decided to go into a different direction. Had Burdick and Raincock-Ekunwe not showed up and showed so well, they might not be in the W tonight, so it is possible to play your way onto a team in the pre-season.
In Dallas it almost looked like Bias played herself off the team in the pre-season games by having two poor showings. I know Uconn has its pull but I doubt it extends to a 3rd round pick any more than a 4th year player the team had just given an extension. ANd Thorton got kept over Hooper probably for her strong camp and pre-season game performance.
D. Adams had a great showing in the pre-season games for The Sun and I'm sure that factored in to her jumping ahead of Hamson, Pedersen and R. Gray who they traded to get in the first place.
IN SA S. Holmes had a nice pre-season which was enough to get kept on for a game or two until Jefferson, Plum and McBride are playing and maybe it will be enough to beat out A. Montgomery or Peters, maybe not, but it is her pre-season performance that got her to this point at least.
Hopkins was in a bad situation because there were too many locks ahead of her. Had she gone to say Atl, Dallas, SA or even Chicago with Faulkner out for the season and Sloot missing time she may very well have been able to play her way into that 11th or 12th spot. |
All good points, but I would wager that what those players did in camp, in direct head-to-head competition with the players who were after the same roster spot, was far more important than performance in preseason games.
I know that the pros are different than high school, but I've done a lot of roster shaping and player cutting over the years, and by far the most important factor is how players look in practice, and how they practice. Remember, the last couple players seldom get in the game, so what matters is how they are in practice and how they help the team's chemistry. These two factors are not visible in preseason games ...
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 05/14/17 11:04 am ::: |
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A lot of girls go into training camp knowing they aren't going to be on the final roster unless a miracle happens. They still choose to participate. I wouldn't call it a waste of time...they could always say 'no thanks'. They at least get a per diem ...and who knows if the connections they make may come to something in the future one way or another. I find myself always rooting for the underdogs hoping for that miracle that allows them some time on a pro roster...and sometimes it happens, but pretty rarely. Still, this year, there are several unlikelies who did in fact make the end of a roster so it's not impossible.
_________________ For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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OldGoat
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 408 Location: overland park
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Posted: 05/14/17 1:30 pm ::: |
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Right you are, Myrtle! I had a young friend invited to the Mercury camp several years ago. She knew it was a real long shot to make that team, but her agent told her to go. Being in camp in the W is a bonus when it comes to getting overseas work. She was one of the first cuts in camp, but she wound up with several opportunities overseas.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63960
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Posted: 06/30/17 2:07 pm ::: |
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2017 draft unrestricted free agent list:
#9 Tori Jankoska
#13 Shayla Cooper
#19 Jordan Reynolds
#20 Feyonda Fitzgerald
#21 Chantel Osahor
#22 Ronni Williams
#25 Shaquilla Nunn
#27 Mehryn Kraker
#28 Jessica January
#31 Oderah Chidom
#32 Adrienne Motley
#34 Kai James
#35 Saicha Grant-Allen
Rights reserved:
#2 Alaina Coates
#16 Leticia Romero (deferred foreign player pick)
#24 Lisa Berkani (deferred foreign player pick... signed and suspended)
#36 Tahlia Tupaea (deferred foreign player pick)
Players from 2017 draft on active rosters
1st Rd 10
2nd Rd 5
3rd Rd 4
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63960
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Posted: 06/30/17 3:28 pm ::: |
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Former Freeland, MSU star Tori Jankoska signs with Poland league
http://www.mlive.com/sports/saginaw/index.ssf/2017/07/former_freeland_msu_star_tori_2.html
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When the Chicago Sky closed the door on Tori Jankoska's WNBA career, she waited for the other door to open.
It did, although the door is more than 4,000 miles away from Freeland. |
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"The WNBA didn't turn out the best for me," Jankoska said. "But they have to do what they think is the best thing to do to win games.
"It wasn't hard for me. I was going in kind of expecting to go overseas. When one door closes, another door opens." |
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Jankoska turned her all-American season into a Top 10 pick in the WNBA draft. The Chicago Sky took Jankoska with the ninth overall pick, but waived her after the first game of the season. She did not play a game in the WNBA.
"I had offers from other teams and other places," said Jankoska, who admitted she will make more money in Poland than she would have in the WNBA.
"But I loved the coaches, loved the place."
Gdynia is one of the top tourist destinations in Poland, with a seaport to the Baltic Sea. |
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63960
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Posted: 07/03/17 6:01 pm ::: |
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July 3, 2017
Los Angeles Ibekwe, Ify Waived
Is Tolo available?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67146 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 07/03/17 6:10 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
July 3, 2017
Los Angeles Ibekwe, Ify Waived
Is Tolo available? |
Maybe they're bringing back Saicha Grant-Allen
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
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Posted: 07/03/17 7:00 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
July 3, 2017
Los Angeles Ibekwe, Ify Waived
Is Tolo available? |
Maybe they're bringing back Saicha Grant-Allen |
Or Ruef.
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 07/03/17 7:25 pm ::: |
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I hope its Ruef. I'd love to see the Harrison Ruef battle V2. That was one of the highlights of the pre-season.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63960
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Posted: 07/03/17 7:31 pm ::: |
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Even though they're training in Phoenix now, it looks like the Opals will be in Asia Cup in July, so Tolo doesn't look to be a possibility.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4264
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Posted: 07/03/17 7:48 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
I hope its Ruef. I'd love to see the Harrison Ruef battle V2. That was one of the highlights of the pre-season. |
It better not be Ruef. I need her for the rest of the season in Hobart. It would be great if she could help the Chargers stick it to her former team Launceston, which decided not to wait for her to be cut from training camp and signed somebody else, which will hurt them in future seasons. |
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21987
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Posted: 07/03/17 8:11 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Even though they're training in Phoenix now, it looks like the Opals will be in Asia Cup in July, so Tolo doesn't look to be a possibility. |
Before the season, Tolo ruled herself out of any WNBA action this year.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24412 Location: London
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Posted: 07/03/17 8:17 pm ::: |
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Strange that they'd cut Ibekwe, who's at least played very occasionally, rather than Diarra - who's literally only been seen at the very end of a couple of absolute blowouts.
By my count, there are 114 days in the league season this year, which makes the mid-point July 8th/9th. So this is probably LA opening up a roster spot before contracts guarantee at the midway stage of the season. Then they can use it for 10-day contracts once we hit that point. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67146 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 07/03/17 8:33 pm ::: |
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July 6th is the midseason cut down date
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24412 Location: London
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Posted: 07/03/17 9:08 pm ::: |
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Yeah that fits, because then they've got the two days to clear waivers. LA are just moving a little early to save a little more money. They were right near the cap with 12 players.
Of course, they could always just stick with 11 for a while. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63960
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Posted: 07/06/17 12:21 am ::: |
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July 5, 2017
Indiana Colhado, Nadia Waived
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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