View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
Back to top |
Posted: 06/16/17 8:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I'm not in favor of mixing the WNBA and politics in general. And I'm also not in favor of mixing RebKell and politics. But I have no problem with a team holding any type of fundraiser or aligning itself with a cause, whether its Pride days, Breast Cancer Awareness or Planned Parenthood. Indeed I suspect that the fan base is generally supportive of all these causes, but some object (not so much to BCA). But even if a team were to make a point of supporting a cause with which I disagreed it would not dramatically affect my support. If they had a game where they supported such a cause I might choose to stay away from that game.
I suspect that the Storm will make a tasteful show of support. I doubt seriously, for instance, that they will be giving away free abortions in the lobby, or raffling off free abortions for life. Indeed if I were them I'd make a point of stating that the donations would go specifically for health care services for low income women, just in an effort to not alienate some fans.
But I would also advise Jet Jaguar that you do yourself no favors to speak about such a topic, particularly when it seems you have little knowledge of the full workings of Planned Parenthood or its place in many communities throughout this country. Rather you should keep your mouth shut and let people think you don't know anything than open your mouth and prove them right.
|
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18064 Location: Queens
Back to top |
Posted: 06/16/17 8:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Goddamn it, people, a woman can't even go off the grid for half a day? Whether a person's opinion is misinformed and personally offensive or not, that is not an excuse to attack them personally.
That being said: go Storm! I approve wholeheartedly of what they're doing and want a link to the auction when it goes live. Women's health initiatives are so misrepresented out there it's not even funny.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
|
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22478 Location: NJ
Back to top |
Posted: 06/16/17 9:38 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Jet Jaguar wrote: |
As long as we are getting political on here. You guys should educate yourself on just what you think is so great. Planned Parenthood is nothing more than an abortion clinic. If you are pregnant, there is literally nothing that they can offer you except an abortion. Any of the other things they provide can be readily available at community health centers, which are more numerous as well. Go to this website and find out the truth. The Storm should be ashamed of themselves for doing this.
https://www.liveaction.org |
Clueless much? Why are you still posting on these boards?
_________________ LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
Brinx
Joined: 03 Oct 2013 Posts: 874 Location: CA
Back to top |
Posted: 06/16/17 10:25 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Good for the Storm!
|
|
josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016 Posts: 136
Back to top |
Posted: 06/16/17 10:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
No debating the fact that Planned Parenthood is certainly a trigger for numerous people (I must plead ignorance in regards to PP. I simply don't know enough to formulate an informed opinion).
Forbes did an article a few years ago commenting how the WNBA was starting to proactively court more of their GaL fans in a public way, which they had refrained from doing for some time. Forbes was a bit critical of this move because they felt that the WNBA was giving up on becoming more mainstream and relegating itself to a permanent niche. They also characterized it as a "rallying of the core" group of fans rather than another outreach to new fans. This might be a similar move.
Could this hurt the Father/Athletically Inclined Daughter attendance demographic? I'm not sure. I'm certainly going to follow Storm attendance closely after this. Should be interesting data. This is probably something that would be done on a team by team basis rather than a league wide initiative though. Different areas of the country have vastly different opinions on PP. I don't think my state even has any of their services, but I think that is due to having no population more than anything else.
|
|
Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21962
Back to top |
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5167 Location: Carson City
Back to top |
Posted: 06/16/17 11:23 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Luuuc wrote: |
josephkramer44 wrote: |
(I must plead ignorance in regards to PP. I simply don't know enough to formulate an informed opinion). |
Oh, and you let that stop you from posting some strong feelings on the subject?? Interesting approach.
:wink: |
Ease up Luuuc. His comment was appropriate, on topic and raised a reasonable issue.
|
|
josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016 Posts: 136
Back to top |
Posted: 06/16/17 11:27 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Didn't mean for it to sound that way. Looking at it completely from a business perspective and wondering if it will help or hurt attendance and tv ratings. All I know about PP is that its services are geared primarily towards women and children and I am a bachelor so I have never given it much thought. I just know that strong feelings are involved.
|
|
Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21962
Back to top |
|
josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016 Posts: 136
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 12:35 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I'll survive. No worries and no offense taken. This is certainly an interesting topic to at least peruse though, no matter what one's opinions are.
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 1:03 am ::: |
Reply |
|
From a business prospective this is likely a smart move. Remember, this isn't the WNBA as a whole who are trying to attract a cross-section of values across America as a whole.
This is a Seattle team trying to appeal to the values of Seattle and to a lesser degree, the state of Washington. This is West Coast Liberal territory. PP is immensely popular there and such a drive could have people who are not WNBA fans showing up to games just to support PP. Once there, the hope is to turn them into fans.
_________________ ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8264 Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 1:05 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I have no interest in speaking for or against Planned Parenthood, but I do have an opinion on a sports team affiliating with the organization, and I also want to factually support what should be a non-controversial statement by Jet Jaguar.
I think it's fair to say that the primary public perception of Planned Parenthood has always been that of the most well-known birth control clinic, initially, and now the most well-known abortion clinic in the country -- regardless of the other services it does in fact provide.
Planned Parenthood traces its roots to Margaret Sanger's birth control clinic 1916 and took on its current name in 1942. Professional sports teams have been around since the 19th century.
Yet, we read this in the New York Times link in the OP:
Quote: |
"This marks the first partnership we've ever had with a sports franchise," Dawn Laguens, the executive vice president of the Planned Parenthood Foundation of America, said in an email. |
So, why has no professional sports franchise over the past 100 years ever affiliated with the country's most notorious birth control clinic cum abortion provider? I would suggest it's because the owners of all those professional franchises are more politically and economically astute than the owners of the Storm.
In my opinion, it makes no business sense to affiliate a sports franchise -- which should serve as an entertainment escape from the real world -- with the most politically divisive and explosive issue in this country over the last 60 years, abortion. Even today, 45 years after Roe, the country is split exactly 50-50 between pro-life and pro-choice according to Gallup.
Sure, the Storm owner's decision may ring well in the liberal echo chambers of their already-built-in feminist base. But what about the 50% of the American population who are pro-life and who consider Planned Parenthood to be the agent of moral evil? Do the Storm owners not care about alienating all those potential WNBA fans?
And what about Storm team members who may themselves be pro-life for religious or other reasons -- perhaps privately. Will they not feel pressured, or even bullied, to go along with something they disagree with?
I just think it makes no business sense for a sports franchise to involve itself and its players with any political issues, much less one of the most vitriolically divisive political issues since racial segregation. There are hundreds of other worthy organizations a sports team can support without such heavy political baggage.
Jet Jaguar, about whom I've never commented in my life, is being attacked in part for saying this:
Quote: |
If you are pregnant, there is literally nothing that they can offer you except an abortion. Any of the other things they provide can be readily available at community health centers, which are more numerous as well. |
Jet Jaguar's second sentence should be completely non-controversial. It is plainly true.
The first sentence is essentially true because it is limited to patients who are pregnant. We can ascertain this without looking at left-wing or right-wing "fact checking" sites. We can ascertain the relevant facts from Planned Parenthood's 2014-15 Annual Report at page 30.
Of all the medical services the report claims -- and there are many beyond abortion -- the ones available to women already pregnant re their pregnancies seem to be limited to prenatal services (17,419), abortion procedures (323,999) and adoption referrals (2,024). These total to 343,442 services for pregnant women re their pregnancies.
Therefore, abortions comprise 94.3% of all Planned Parenthood services provided to pregnant women with respect to their pregnant condition for the year. So, Planned Parenthood's own data substantially support Jet Jaguar's qualified first sentence.
I voice no opinion on whether these data are good, bad or indifferent in any sense. But they are what they are. |
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 1:12 am ::: |
Reply |
|
justintyme wrote: |
From a business prospective this is likely a smart move. Remember, this isn't the WNBA as a whole who are trying to attract a cross-section of values across America as a whole.
This is a Seattle team trying to appeal to the values of Seattle and to a lesser degree, the state of Washington. This is West Coast Liberal territory. PP is immensely popular there and such a drive could have people who are not WNBA fans showing up to games just to support PP. Once there, the hope is to turn them into fans. |
I fully agree with justintyme, but I'd specifically note the factor of gender. Many supporters of Planned Parenthood are women, though there are male supporters. (I'm one of them.) In line with what justintyme has written, these women aren't necessarily fans of women's basketball. Perhaps some will come to the game against Chicago due to their support for Planned Parenthood. Perhaps they'll enjoy seeing the Storm, even love the experience, and come again.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 9:31 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Lost all respect for the Seattle Storm organization, Cheryl Reeve (not that I had any), and Imani Boyette. I don't care what else they do. Any organization that is involved with abortion is reprehensible. I know most people will object to me, but I really don't care so you might as well save your breath.
|
|
UofDel_Alum
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 3979 Location: Delaware
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 9:50 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Love what the Storm is doing, will have to add them to one of my favorite teams.
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 10:42 am ::: |
Reply |
|
zvyn3 wrote: |
Lost all respect for the Seattle Storm organization, Cheryl Reeve (not that I had any), and Imani Boyette. I don't care what else they do. Any organization that is involved with abortion is reprehensible. I know most people will object to me, but I really don't care so you might as well save your breath. |
So you are also opposed to all of the country's major health care providers? Including the Mayo clinic? Which just happens to be the marquee sponsor of the Lynx, along with being recognized as the top hospital in the country?
Abortive services are standard at most OB/GYN practices.
But you are free to have whatever opinions you want; I'm sure Cheryl Reeve and Imani Boyette couldn't care less what you think about them.
_________________ ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Ay Mate
Joined: 12 Nov 2016 Posts: 1280
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 10:44 am ::: |
Reply |
|
zvyn3 wrote: |
Lost all respect for the Seattle Storm organization, Cheryl Reeve (not that I had any), and Imani Boyette. I don't care what else they do. Any organization that is involved with abortion is reprehensible. I know most people will object to me, but I really don't care so you might as well save your breath. |
Everyone's entitled to their opinions. That's what America is supposed to be. The Storm and the league won't lose any fans over this. Like the kneeling controversy and the black lives matter controversy, people will soon forget about this too and move on.
|
|
Ay Mate
Joined: 12 Nov 2016 Posts: 1280
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 10:46 am ::: |
Reply |
|
justintyme wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Lost all respect for the Seattle Storm organization, Cheryl Reeve (not that I had any), and Imani Boyette. I don't care what else they do. Any organization that is involved with abortion is reprehensible. I know most people will object to me, but I really don't care so you might as well save your breath. |
So you are also opposed to all of the country's major health care providers? Including the Mayo clinic? Which just happens to be the marquee sponsor of the Lynx, along with being recognized as the top hospital in the country?
Abortive services are standard at most OB/GYN practices.
But you are free to have whatever opinions you want; I'm sure Cheryl Reeve and Imani Boyette couldn't care less what you think about them. |
What did Imani Boyette do that's so horrible?
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 10:50 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Ay Mate wrote: |
justintyme wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Lost all respect for the Seattle Storm organization, Cheryl Reeve (not that I had any), and Imani Boyette. I don't care what else they do. Any organization that is involved with abortion is reprehensible. I know most people will object to me, but I really don't care so you might as well save your breath. |
So you are also opposed to all of the country's major health care providers? Including the Mayo clinic? Which just happens to be the marquee sponsor of the Lynx, along with being recognized as the top hospital in the country?
Abortive services are standard at most OB/GYN practices.
But you are free to have whatever opinions you want; I'm sure Cheryl Reeve and Imani Boyette couldn't care less what you think about them. |
What did Imani Boyette do that's so horrible? |
From the article:
“As always, I’m so appreciative of a league that not only embraces our diversity but our status as women,” Chicago Sky center Imani Boyette said. “Planned Parenthood is vital for women who don’t have access to standard health care. I was a P.P. patient in high school because I didn’t have health insurance. Taking a stand for things that affect the underprivileged, as a league and women of privilege, is how change happens.”
Such a terrible person, worthy of scorn isn't she? How dare she be poor and use the services of low-cost women's health care. SHAME. SHAME. SHAME.
_________________ ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Ay Mate
Joined: 12 Nov 2016 Posts: 1280
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 11:01 am ::: |
Reply |
|
justintyme wrote: |
Ay Mate wrote: |
justintyme wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Lost all respect for the Seattle Storm organization, Cheryl Reeve (not that I had any), and Imani Boyette. I don't care what else they do. Any organization that is involved with abortion is reprehensible. I know most people will object to me, but I really don't care so you might as well save your breath. |
So you are also opposed to all of the country's major health care providers? Including the Mayo clinic? Which just happens to be the marquee sponsor of the Lynx, along with being recognized as the top hospital in the country?
Abortive services are standard at most OB/GYN practices.
But you are free to have whatever opinions you want; I'm sure Cheryl Reeve and Imani Boyette couldn't care less what you think about them. |
What did Imani Boyette do that's so horrible? |
From the article:
“As always, I’m so appreciative of a league that not only embraces our diversity but our status as women,” Chicago Sky center Imani Boyette said. “Planned Parenthood is vital for women who don’t have access to standard health care. I was a P.P. patient in high school because I didn’t have health insurance. Taking a stand for things that affect the underprivileged, as a league and women of privilege, is how change happens.”
Such a terrible person, worthy of scorn isn't she? How dare she be poor and use the services of low-cost women's health care. SHAME. SHAME. SHAME. |
This entire thing about the Storm is such a non issue. But again, people have a right to express their opinions. People also have a right to slam people's opinions. This country has more serious issues than worrying about providing health care to poor folks which is what PP does. such as the disgusting troll in the White House. Crime. Poverty. Drugs. Violence. Racism. Bigotry. Homophobia. The disgusting troll in the White House. Oh I already said that one.
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 11:05 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I wonder what wins out when the day comes that Candace Parker makes her views on Planned Parenthood public, and they end up being supportive.
I really don't envy that crisis of conscience.
_________________ ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
Jet Jaguar
Joined: 11 Feb 2014 Posts: 1111
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 11:37 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Planned Parenthood does 1/3 of all abortions in the United States. Is on tape saying they sell baby body parts to the highest bidder. Laughs about how hard it is to tear a baby apart. Has quotas for abortion. Tries to convince young girls that abortion is the best answer. Has no prenatal care. No adoption services. Aborts 160 babies for every 1 they refer out for adoption. Carries out abortions just because someone doesn't like the baby's sex. Covers up when they encounter sex-trafficking (it's on tape).
And you guys wonder why we are against this reprehensible organization. No money should be given to this place EVER -- much less my tax payer money.
_________________ Oderint dum metuant - Let them hate, so long as they fear
|
|
readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7418 Location: Durham, NC
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 11:47 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Jet Jaguar wrote: |
Planned Parenthood does 1/3 of all abortions in the United States. Is on tape saying they sell baby body parts to the highest bidder. Laughs about how hard it is to tear a baby apart. Has quotas for abortion. Tries to convince young girls that abortion is the best answer. Has no prenatal care. No adoption services. Aborts 160 babies for every 1 they refer out for adoption. Carries out abortions just because someone doesn't like the baby's sex. Covers up when they encounter sex-trafficking (it's on tape).
And you guys wonder why we are against this reprehensible organization. No money should be given to this place EVER -- much less my tax payer money. |
The people who doctored that video tape were found guilty of criminal charges - it was proven in a court of law that it was all lies. Only ignorant people still believe that crap and you show yourself to earn the title of IGNORANT.
_________________ Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
|
|
Jet Jaguar
Joined: 11 Feb 2014 Posts: 1111
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 11:49 am ::: |
Reply |
|
readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Jet Jaguar wrote: |
Planned Parenthood does 1/3 of all abortions in the United States. Is on tape saying they sell baby body parts to the highest bidder. Laughs about how hard it is to tear a baby apart. Has quotas for abortion. Tries to convince young girls that abortion is the best answer. Has no prenatal care. No adoption services. Aborts 160 babies for every 1 they refer out for adoption. Carries out abortions just because someone doesn't like the baby's sex. Covers up when they encounter sex-trafficking (it's on tape).
And you guys wonder why we are against this reprehensible organization. No money should be given to this place EVER -- much less my tax payer money. |
The people who doctored that video tape were found guilty of criminal charges - it was proven in a court of law that it was all lies. Only ignorant people still believe that crap and you show yourself to earn the title of IGNORANT. |
They are not doctored. They are people planted but they are confirming what they said. And again. The board monitors will do absolutely nothing because you called me ignorant because they agree with you and not me. If I said that, I'd be gone for a month. It's already happened. Plus you didn't refute any of the other stuff I said. Even if that one instance was misrepresented, all the other stuff makes them just as reprehensible.
_________________ Oderint dum metuant - Let them hate, so long as they fear
Last edited by Jet Jaguar on 06/17/17 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67111 Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
Posted: 06/17/17 11:52 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Jet Jaguar wrote: |
readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Jet Jaguar wrote: |
Planned Parenthood does 1/3 of all abortions in the United States. Is on tape saying they sell baby body parts to the highest bidder. Laughs about how hard it is to tear a baby apart. Has quotas for abortion. Tries to convince young girls that abortion is the best answer. Has no prenatal care. No adoption services. Aborts 160 babies for every 1 they refer out for adoption. Carries out abortions just because someone doesn't like the baby's sex. Covers up when they encounter sex-trafficking (it's on tape).
And you guys wonder why we are against this reprehensible organization. No money should be given to this place EVER -- much less my tax payer money. |
The people who doctored that video tape were found guilty of criminal charges - it was proven in a court of law that it was all lies. Only ignorant people still believe that crap and you show yourself to earn the title of IGNORANT. |
They are not doctored. They are people planted but they are confirming what they said. And again. The board monitors will do absolutely nothing because you called me ignorant. Plus you didn't refute any of the other stuff I said. Even if that one instance was misrepresented, all the other stuff makes them just as reprehensible. |
Actually, the videos were heavily edited
_________________ I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
|
|