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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/11/17 10:39 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
Talk to a scholarship athlete and ask if the education is "free."
Are students who pay tuition required to lift weights three times a week at 6 a.m.? Do students who pay tuition have to avoid certain classes that they want to take because they conflict with practice? Do students who pay tuition have to attend mandatory study halls even if their grades are good? And so on ...
Being on scholarship is having a job. Maybe it's well-paid, or maybe it's not, but it's far from "free."
And to beat my favorite dead horse, does "chaos" ensue when coaches leave or athletic directors leave or school administrators leave? They have no penalty for changing jobs, but students do. Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class. That seems a lot more like "chaos" to me than Ali Patberg being immediately eligible at Illinois.
Finally, the Power 5 schools already have an enormous advantage, and allowing transfers to be eligible immediately would, I believe, help mid-majors because then athletes would be able to spend a year and have a much better idea of where they fit, and how important it is to them, or not, to play the game rather than sit on the bench for a Final Four team. Sitting out a year and paying your own way is a major, major deterrent to many athletes who otherwise might want to try out the WCC instead of watching from the bench in the Pac-12. |
No, it's not "free" and not one person here has suggested it is. And one of the costs is that if you bail out and leave your teammates and coaches and fans in the lurch, you have to sit out a year.
Quid pro quo.
And yes, coaches bolting also causes chaos which is why they pay a penalty of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.
Maybe players should be able to pay a million dollar buyout to be able to play immediately. You want them treated like coaches, so there you go. That should satisfy you.
BTW, since you brought up Martin, he had to pay Tenn $1.3 million when he bolted for Cal. Then his Cal contract provided:
"If Martin himself leaves prior to April 14, 2017, he will pay $1.1 million to the University. If he leaves between April 15, 2017 and April 14, 2018, he pays the University $1 million. If he leaves between April 15, 2018 and April 14, 2019, he would owe the University $750,000."
Given his demonstrated unreliability after bolting twice, Missouri has put HUGE buyouts in his new contract. If he leaves before April 30, 2018, Martin would owe Missouri a lump sum of $10.5 million. It tapers down over time, but is still $5M in 2020, $3M in 2021.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 04/11/17 11:01 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15838 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7884 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/11/17 12:13 pm ::: |
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"Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class."
"Stole"? Bitter, bitter! If they recommitted because they preferred to play for him, that's not stealing. Shaking up Cal's recruiting class? Well, yeah. Same reason. Recruits commit, at least in partiality, to a coach. The very same thing happens in WBB--all the time. Coach gets fired or leaves, some recruits (and some players) leave and go with him or her. It's a fact of life. Deal with it.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 67491 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 04/11/17 12:24 pm ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
Talk to a scholarship athlete and ask if the education is "free."
Are students who pay tuition required to lift weights three times a week at 6 a.m.? Do students who pay tuition have to avoid certain classes that they want to take because they conflict with practice? Do students who pay tuition have to attend mandatory study halls even if their grades are good? And so on ...
Being on scholarship is having a job. Maybe it's well-paid, or maybe it's not, but it's far from "free."
And to beat my favorite dead horse, does "chaos" ensue when coaches leave or athletic directors leave or school administrators leave? They have no penalty for changing jobs, but students do. Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class. That seems a lot more like "chaos" to me than Ali Patberg being immediately eligible at Illinois.
Finally, the Power 5 schools already have an enormous advantage, and allowing transfers to be eligible immediately would, I believe, help mid-majors because then athletes would be able to spend a year and have a much better idea of where they fit, and how important it is to them, or not, to play the game rather than sit on the bench for a Final Four team. Sitting out a year and paying your own way is a major, major deterrent to many athletes who otherwise might want to try out the WCC instead of watching from the bench in the Pac-12. |
No, it's not "free" and not one person here has suggested it is. And one of the costs is that if you bail out and leave your teammates and coaches and fans in the lurch, you have to sit out a year.
Quid pro quo.
And yes, coaches bolting also causes chaos which is why they pay a penalty of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.
Maybe players should be able to pay a million dollar buyout to be able to play immediately. You want them treated like coaches, so there you go. That should satisfy you.
BTW, since you brought up Martin, he had to pay Tenn $1.3 million when he bolted for Cal. Then his Cal contract provided:
"If Martin himself leaves prior to April 14, 2017, he will pay $1.1 million to the University. If he leaves between April 15, 2017 and April 14, 2018, he pays the University $1 million. If he leaves between April 15, 2018 and April 14, 2019, he would owe the University $750,000."
Given his demonstrated unreliability after bolting twice, Missouri has put HUGE buyouts in his new contract. If he leaves before April 30, 2018, Martin would owe Missouri a lump sum of $10.5 million. It tapers down over time, but is still $5M in 2020, $3M in 2021. |
The buyouts only apply if the coach leaves before the end of his/her contract. A player's "contract" is only one year at a time. If they choose to leave at the end of the year, why should they be penalized?
_________________ The truth is like poetry
Most people hate poetry
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Shmermerer1
Joined: 04 Aug 2014 Posts: 284
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: 04/11/17 12:41 pm ::: |
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Rebekah Dahlman (Vandy) will be going to DePaul
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 04/11/17 1:05 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
ArtBest23 wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
Talk to a scholarship athlete and ask if the education is "free."
Are students who pay tuition required to lift weights three times a week at 6 a.m.? Do students who pay tuition have to avoid certain classes that they want to take because they conflict with practice? Do students who pay tuition have to attend mandatory study halls even if their grades are good? And so on ...
Being on scholarship is having a job. Maybe it's well-paid, or maybe it's not, but it's far from "free."
And to beat my favorite dead horse, does "chaos" ensue when coaches leave or athletic directors leave or school administrators leave? They have no penalty for changing jobs, but students do. Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class. That seems a lot more like "chaos" to me than Ali Patberg being immediately eligible at Illinois.
Finally, the Power 5 schools already have an enormous advantage, and allowing transfers to be eligible immediately would, I believe, help mid-majors because then athletes would be able to spend a year and have a much better idea of where they fit, and how important it is to them, or not, to play the game rather than sit on the bench for a Final Four team. Sitting out a year and paying your own way is a major, major deterrent to many athletes who otherwise might want to try out the WCC instead of watching from the bench in the Pac-12. |
No, it's not "free" and not one person here has suggested it is. And one of the costs is that if you bail out and leave your teammates and coaches and fans in the lurch, you have to sit out a year.
Quid pro quo.
And yes, coaches bolting also causes chaos which is why they pay a penalty of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.
Maybe players should be able to pay a million dollar buyout to be able to play immediately. You want them treated like coaches, so there you go. That should satisfy you.
BTW, since you brought up Martin, he had to pay Tenn $1.3 million when he bolted for Cal. Then his Cal contract provided:
"If Martin himself leaves prior to April 14, 2017, he will pay $1.1 million to the University. If he leaves between April 15, 2017 and April 14, 2018, he pays the University $1 million. If he leaves between April 15, 2018 and April 14, 2019, he would owe the University $750,000."
Given his demonstrated unreliability after bolting twice, Missouri has put HUGE buyouts in his new contract. If he leaves before April 30, 2018, Martin would owe Missouri a lump sum of $10.5 million. It tapers down over time, but is still $5M in 2020, $3M in 2021. |
The buyouts only apply if the coach leaves before the end of his/her contract. A player's "contract" is only one year at a time. If they choose to leave at the end of the year, why should they be penalized? |
Actually, every major conference now provides four year scholarships. So if the school is committing to four years, doesn't seem unreasonable to get the same from the player.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7884 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 04/11/17 4:42 pm ::: |
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If you had many applicants would you take time to figure that out, me, trashcan.
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ArtBest23
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013 Posts: 5223
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Posted: 04/11/17 5:20 pm ::: |
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Some more power 5 transfers.
A'Tyanna Gaulden is leaving Florida State.
Makenzie Ellis is leaving Colorado
At the non power 5 level you also have a few transfers.
Davion Wingate transferring from Stony Brook
Katie Armstrong transferring from St. Joseph's to Fairfield
Jodi Ramil transferring from Georgetown to Binghamton
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15838 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7884 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/12/17 11:51 am ::: |
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Hey people---this thread is supposed to be keeping track of what the header says...attrition, transfer, and injury. I know I've been guilty myself of joining in the side discussion, but as the initiator of the thread, could I respectfully ask that we all take THAT discussion to a new thread please?
Thank you.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012 Posts: 4079
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Posted: 04/12/17 3:57 pm ::: |
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Per Raoul, Kerstie Phills granted her release from Wagner; led her team with 13 ppg and was NEC Rookie of the Year.
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OtterlyAmused
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 56 Location: Minneapolis
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Posted: 04/13/17 9:59 am ::: |
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I'm wondering where you got the information on Makenzie Ellis from Colorado. I haven't seen anything and the CU Buffs web page posted an article yesterday that included her competing in the national 3x3 tournament.
Durantula wrote: |
Some more power 5 transfers.
A'Tyanna Gaulden is leaving Florida State.
Makenzie Ellis is leaving Colorado
At the non power 5 level you also have a few transfers.
Davion Wingate transferring from Stony Brook
Katie Armstrong transferring from St. Joseph's to Fairfield
Jodi Ramil transferring from Georgetown to Binghamton |
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: 04/13/17 10:14 am ::: |
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OtterlyAmused wrote: |
I'm wondering where you got the information on Makenzie Ellis from Colorado. I haven't seen anything and the CU Buffs web page posted an article yesterday that included her competing in the national 3x3 tournament.
Durantula wrote: |
Some more power 5 transfers.
A'Tyanna Gaulden is leaving Florida State.
Makenzie Ellis is leaving Colorado
At the non power 5 level you also have a few transfers.
Davion Wingate transferring from Stony Brook
Katie Armstrong transferring from St. Joseph's to Fairfield
Jodi Ramil transferring from Georgetown to Binghamton |
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As of right now on her Twitter page, she has retweeted two people that reported she was leaving: https://twitter.com/k3nz13_3?lang=en
Quote: |
Makenzie Rayn Ellis Retweeted
Bret McCormick @ASGR1995 · Apr 11
Makenzie Ellis 6-1 WF is transferring from Colorado. From Tulsa OK & has 2 years. Contact Chris Johnson 832-908-0121 |
Quote: |
Makenzie Rayn Ellis Retweeted
Hoop Skills @skilledupelite · Apr 11
6'2 sophomore wing/forward Makenzie Ellis is transferring from the University of Colorado. Contact Chris Johnson 832-908-0121 @ASGR1995 |
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OtterlyAmused
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 56 Location: Minneapolis
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Posted: 04/13/17 10:26 am ::: |
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Thank you. I thought their sophomore class this year was a solid core that could do really well if they got a good post with them.
As of right now on her Twitter page, she has retweeted two people that reported she was leaving: https://twitter.com/k3nz13_3?lang=en
Quote: |
Makenzie Rayn Ellis Retweeted
Bret McCormick @ASGR1995 · Apr 11
Makenzie Ellis 6-1 WF is transferring from Colorado. From Tulsa OK & has 2 years. Contact Chris Johnson 832-908-0121 |
Quote: |
Makenzie Rayn Ellis Retweeted
Hoop Skills @skilledupelite · Apr 11
6'2 sophomore wing/forward Makenzie Ellis is transferring from the University of Colorado. Contact Chris Johnson 832-908-0121 @ASGR1995 |
[/quote]
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7884 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/14/17 9:52 pm ::: |
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Freshman G Arella Guirantes transferring from Texas Tech. She is a native of Bellport, NY and would like to play closer to home.
Also, Alyssa Dry and Alexandria Gulley rumored to be leaving Baylor, but no releases granted as of yet..
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013 Posts: 5223
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Posted: 04/15/17 11:05 am ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Freshman G Arella Guirantes transferring from Texas Tech. She is a native of Bellport, NY and would like to play closer to home.
Also, Alyssa Dry and Alexandria Gulley rumored to be leaving Baylor, but no releases granted as of yet.. |
Guirantes was productive as a freshman, she'll get some attention. Dry and Gulley basically never played, so I don't think it affects Baylor.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7884 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 04/15/17 5:49 pm ::: |
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Durantula wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
Freshman G Arella Guirantes transferring from Texas Tech. She is a native of Bellport, NY and would like to play closer to home.
Also, Alyssa Dry and Alexandria Gulley rumored to be leaving Baylor, but no releases granted as of yet.. |
Guirantes was productive as a freshman, she'll get some attention. Dry and Gulley basically never played, so I don't think it affects Baylor. |
Gulley is to remain at Baylor on a medical scholarship, per an article I read but can't post from my phone to here. Dry will presumably transfer.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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