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2017 Attrition, Transfer, and Injury Report
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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12914



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 10:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Talk to a scholarship athlete and ask if the education is "free."

Are students who pay tuition required to lift weights three times a week at 6 a.m.? Do students who pay tuition have to avoid certain classes that they want to take because they conflict with practice? Do students who pay tuition have to attend mandatory study halls even if their grades are good? And so on ...

Being on scholarship is having a job. Maybe it's well-paid, or maybe it's not, but it's far from "free."

And to beat my favorite dead horse, does "chaos" ensue when coaches leave or athletic directors leave or school administrators leave? They have no penalty for changing jobs, but students do. Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class. That seems a lot more like "chaos" to me than Ali Patberg being immediately eligible at Illinois.

Finally, the Power 5 schools already have an enormous advantage, and allowing transfers to be eligible immediately would, I believe, help mid-majors because then athletes would be able to spend a year and have a much better idea of where they fit, and how important it is to them, or not, to play the game rather than sit on the bench for a Final Four team. Sitting out a year and paying your own way is a major, major deterrent to many athletes who otherwise might want to try out the WCC instead of watching from the bench in the Pac-12.


No, it's not "free" and not one person here has suggested it is. And one of the costs is that if you bail out and leave your teammates and coaches and fans in the lurch, you have to sit out a year.

Quid pro quo.

And yes, coaches bolting also causes chaos which is why they pay a penalty of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.

Maybe players should be able to pay a million dollar buyout to be able to play immediately. You want them treated like coaches, so there you go. That should satisfy you.

BTW, since you brought up Martin, he had to pay Tenn $1.3 million when he bolted for Cal. Then his Cal contract provided:

"If Martin himself leaves prior to April 14, 2017, he will pay $1.1 million to the University. If he leaves between April 15, 2017 and April 14, 2018, he pays the University $1 million. If he leaves between April 15, 2018 and April 14, 2019, he would owe the University $750,000."

Given his demonstrated unreliability after bolting twice, Missouri has put HUGE buyouts in his new contract. If he leaves before April 30, 2018, Martin would owe Missouri a lump sum of $10.5 million. It tapers down over time, but is still $5M in 2020, $3M in 2021.




Last edited by ArtBest23 on 04/11/17 11:01 am; edited 3 times in total
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11237
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart), whilst on my way to Oregon!


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PostPosted: 04/11/17 10:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
No, it's not "free" and not one person here has suggested it is.


Well, yaa....you actually DID. Razz

ArtBest23 wrote:
You sign up and take a free $60,000/yr education, that's the cost of bailing out on people who are relying on you.



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Oklahoma: Go Sooners! Oregon: Go Ducks!
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12914



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 10:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
No, it's not "free" and not one person here has suggested it is.


Well, yaa....you actually DID. Razz

ArtBest23 wrote:
You sign up and take a free $60,000/yr education, that's the cost of bailing out on people who are relying on you.


Reading is fundamental

ArtBest23 wrote:
You sign up and take a free $60,000/yr education, that's the cost of bailing out on people who are relying on you.


Notice the similarity to:

ArtBest23 wrote:

And one of the costs is that if you bail out and leave your teammates and coaches and fans in the lurch, you have to sit out a year.

Quid pro quo.



summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4886
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 04/11/17 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class."

"Stole"? Bitter, bitter! If they recommitted because they preferred to play for him, that's not stealing. Shaking up Cal's recruiting class? Well, yeah. Same reason. Recruits commit, at least in partiality, to a coach. The very same thing happens in WBB--all the time. Coach gets fired or leaves, some recruits (and some players) leave and go with him or her. It's a fact of life. Deal with it.



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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2146



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wonder how those student athletes consider their prestigious UNC education as payment for their services Laughing


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57580
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 04/11/17 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Talk to a scholarship athlete and ask if the education is "free."

Are students who pay tuition required to lift weights three times a week at 6 a.m.? Do students who pay tuition have to avoid certain classes that they want to take because they conflict with practice? Do students who pay tuition have to attend mandatory study halls even if their grades are good? And so on ...

Being on scholarship is having a job. Maybe it's well-paid, or maybe it's not, but it's far from "free."

And to beat my favorite dead horse, does "chaos" ensue when coaches leave or athletic directors leave or school administrators leave? They have no penalty for changing jobs, but students do. Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class. That seems a lot more like "chaos" to me than Ali Patberg being immediately eligible at Illinois.

Finally, the Power 5 schools already have an enormous advantage, and allowing transfers to be eligible immediately would, I believe, help mid-majors because then athletes would be able to spend a year and have a much better idea of where they fit, and how important it is to them, or not, to play the game rather than sit on the bench for a Final Four team. Sitting out a year and paying your own way is a major, major deterrent to many athletes who otherwise might want to try out the WCC instead of watching from the bench in the Pac-12.


No, it's not "free" and not one person here has suggested it is. And one of the costs is that if you bail out and leave your teammates and coaches and fans in the lurch, you have to sit out a year.

Quid pro quo.

And yes, coaches bolting also causes chaos which is why they pay a penalty of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.

Maybe players should be able to pay a million dollar buyout to be able to play immediately. You want them treated like coaches, so there you go. That should satisfy you.

BTW, since you brought up Martin, he had to pay Tenn $1.3 million when he bolted for Cal. Then his Cal contract provided:

"If Martin himself leaves prior to April 14, 2017, he will pay $1.1 million to the University. If he leaves between April 15, 2017 and April 14, 2018, he pays the University $1 million. If he leaves between April 15, 2018 and April 14, 2019, he would owe the University $750,000."

Given his demonstrated unreliability after bolting twice, Missouri has put HUGE buyouts in his new contract. If he leaves before April 30, 2018, Martin would owe Missouri a lump sum of $10.5 million. It tapers down over time, but is still $5M in 2020, $3M in 2021.


The buyouts only apply if the coach leaves before the end of his/her contract. A player's "contract" is only one year at a time. If they choose to leave at the end of the year, why should they be penalized?



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
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Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 232



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 12:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rebekah Dahlman From vandy transfers to DePaul. I think it's a great pickup for us; however, we need a post real bad.
http://www.depaulbluedemons.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/041117aaa.html


lynxmania



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 8371
Location: Minnesota


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PostPosted: 04/11/17 12:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rebekah Dahlman (Vandy) will be going to DePaul


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12914



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Talk to a scholarship athlete and ask if the education is "free."

Are students who pay tuition required to lift weights three times a week at 6 a.m.? Do students who pay tuition have to avoid certain classes that they want to take because they conflict with practice? Do students who pay tuition have to attend mandatory study halls even if their grades are good? And so on ...

Being on scholarship is having a job. Maybe it's well-paid, or maybe it's not, but it's far from "free."

And to beat my favorite dead horse, does "chaos" ensue when coaches leave or athletic directors leave or school administrators leave? They have no penalty for changing jobs, but students do. Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class. That seems a lot more like "chaos" to me than Ali Patberg being immediately eligible at Illinois.

Finally, the Power 5 schools already have an enormous advantage, and allowing transfers to be eligible immediately would, I believe, help mid-majors because then athletes would be able to spend a year and have a much better idea of where they fit, and how important it is to them, or not, to play the game rather than sit on the bench for a Final Four team. Sitting out a year and paying your own way is a major, major deterrent to many athletes who otherwise might want to try out the WCC instead of watching from the bench in the Pac-12.


No, it's not "free" and not one person here has suggested it is. And one of the costs is that if you bail out and leave your teammates and coaches and fans in the lurch, you have to sit out a year.

Quid pro quo.

And yes, coaches bolting also causes chaos which is why they pay a penalty of hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.

Maybe players should be able to pay a million dollar buyout to be able to play immediately. You want them treated like coaches, so there you go. That should satisfy you.

BTW, since you brought up Martin, he had to pay Tenn $1.3 million when he bolted for Cal. Then his Cal contract provided:

"If Martin himself leaves prior to April 14, 2017, he will pay $1.1 million to the University. If he leaves between April 15, 2017 and April 14, 2018, he pays the University $1 million. If he leaves between April 15, 2018 and April 14, 2019, he would owe the University $750,000."

Given his demonstrated unreliability after bolting twice, Missouri has put HUGE buyouts in his new contract. If he leaves before April 30, 2018, Martin would owe Missouri a lump sum of $10.5 million. It tapers down over time, but is still $5M in 2020, $3M in 2021.


The buyouts only apply if the coach leaves before the end of his/her contract. A player's "contract" is only one year at a time. If they choose to leave at the end of the year, why should they be penalized?


Actually, every major conference now provides four year scholarships. So if the school is committing to four years, doesn't seem unreasonable to get the same from the player.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12914



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Wonder how those student athletes consider their prestigious UNC education as payment for their services Laughing


If they finished, they got a degree, and that degree most definitely is prestigious. #30 in US News, #47 in Forbes (immediately behind Michigan, Vandy, UCLA).

I suspect those UNC student athletes probably consider their prestigious UNC education as terrific.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2146



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 2:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Only if employers have been living under a rock and are not aware of the athlete specific non classes Laughing


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4886
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 04/11/17 4:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Only if employers have been living under a rock and are not aware of the athlete specific non classes Laughing


It kinda depends on what team they were on.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2146



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you had many applicants would you take time to figure that out, me, trashcan.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12914



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Only if employers have been living under a rock and are not aware of the athlete specific non classes Laughing


There were no "athlete specific non classes".

So you go ahead and don't hire the UNC grads. Your competitors will happily snatch them up.

One of them will probably be your boss any day now. Laughing


Durantula



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 4535



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some more power 5 transfers.

A'Tyanna Gaulden is leaving Florida State.
Makenzie Ellis is leaving Colorado

At the non power 5 level you also have a few transfers.

Davion Wingate transferring from Stony Brook
Katie Armstrong transferring from St. Joseph's to Fairfield
Jodi Ramil transferring from Georgetown to Binghamton


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 2146



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Only if employers have been living under a rock and are not aware of the athlete specific non classes Laughing


There were no "athlete specific non classes".

So you go ahead and don't hire the UNC grads. Your competitors will happily snatch them up.

One of them will probably be your boss any day now. Laughing


OMG wow so predictable, the fact that you have to argue over sarcasm, what can one say, you clearly don't work with anyone as you have no time to spend away from this board.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11237
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart), whilst on my way to Oregon!


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PostPosted: 04/12/17 12:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
You sign up and take a free $60,000/yr education, that's the cost of bailing out on people who are relying on you.

YOU called it a "free" $60,000 education. That costs whom? Contradict much?
ArtBest23 wrote:
Reading is fundamental

As is Writing and Composition. You may wanna brush up on those. You're starting to confuse yourself. Shocked



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Oklahoma: Go Sooners! Oregon: Go Ducks!
summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4886
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 04/12/17 11:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hey people---this thread is supposed to be keeping track of what the header says...attrition, transfer, and injury. I know I've been guilty myself of joining in the side discussion, but as the initiator of the thread, could I respectfully ask that we all take THAT discussion to a new thread please?

Thank you.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
Fighting Artichoke



Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 3603



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PostPosted: 04/12/17 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Per Raoul, Kerstie Phills granted her release from Wagner; led her team with 13 ppg and was NEC Rookie of the Year.


OtterlyAmused



Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Minneapolis


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PostPosted: 04/13/17 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm wondering where you got the information on Makenzie Ellis from Colorado. I haven't seen anything and the CU Buffs web page posted an article yesterday that included her competing in the national 3x3 tournament.

Durantula wrote:
Some more power 5 transfers.

A'Tyanna Gaulden is leaving Florida State.
Makenzie Ellis is leaving Colorado

At the non power 5 level you also have a few transfers.

Davion Wingate transferring from Stony Brook
Katie Armstrong transferring from St. Joseph's to Fairfield
Jodi Ramil transferring from Georgetown to Binghamton


lynxmania



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 8371
Location: Minnesota


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PostPosted: 04/13/17 10:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OtterlyAmused wrote:
I'm wondering where you got the information on Makenzie Ellis from Colorado. I haven't seen anything and the CU Buffs web page posted an article yesterday that included her competing in the national 3x3 tournament.

Durantula wrote:
Some more power 5 transfers.

A'Tyanna Gaulden is leaving Florida State.
Makenzie Ellis is leaving Colorado

At the non power 5 level you also have a few transfers.

Davion Wingate transferring from Stony Brook
Katie Armstrong transferring from St. Joseph's to Fairfield
Jodi Ramil transferring from Georgetown to Binghamton


As of right now on her Twitter page, she has retweeted two people that reported she was leaving: https://twitter.com/k3nz13_3?lang=en


Quote:
Makenzie Rayn Ellis Retweeted
Bret McCormick‏ @ASGR1995 · Apr 11
Makenzie Ellis 6-1 WF is transferring from Colorado. From Tulsa OK & has 2 years. Contact Chris Johnson 832-908-0121


Quote:
Makenzie Rayn Ellis Retweeted
Hoop Skills‏ @skilledupelite · Apr 11
6'2 sophomore wing/forward Makenzie Ellis is transferring from the University of Colorado. Contact Chris Johnson 832-908-0121 @ASGR1995


OtterlyAmused



Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 52
Location: Minneapolis


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PostPosted: 04/13/17 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thank you. I thought their sophomore class this year was a solid core that could do really well if they got a good post with them.

As of right now on her Twitter page, she has retweeted two people that reported she was leaving: https://twitter.com/k3nz13_3?lang=en


Quote:
Makenzie Rayn Ellis Retweeted
Bret McCormick‏ @ASGR1995 · Apr 11
Makenzie Ellis 6-1 WF is transferring from Colorado. From Tulsa OK & has 2 years. Contact Chris Johnson 832-908-0121


Quote:
Makenzie Rayn Ellis Retweeted
Hoop Skills‏ @skilledupelite · Apr 11
6'2 sophomore wing/forward Makenzie Ellis is transferring from the University of Colorado. Contact Chris Johnson 832-908-0121 @ASGR1995
[/quote]


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4886
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 04/14/17 9:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Freshman G Arella Guirantes transferring from Texas Tech. She is a native of Bellport, NY and would like to play closer to home.

Also, Alyssa Dry and Alexandria Gulley rumored to be leaving Baylor, but no releases granted as of yet..



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
Durantula



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
Posts: 4535



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PostPosted: 04/15/17 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Freshman G Arella Guirantes transferring from Texas Tech. She is a native of Bellport, NY and would like to play closer to home.

Also, Alyssa Dry and Alexandria Gulley rumored to be leaving Baylor, but no releases granted as of yet..


Guirantes was productive as a freshman, she'll get some attention. Dry and Gulley basically never played, so I don't think it affects Baylor.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4886
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 04/15/17 5:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durantula wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
Freshman G Arella Guirantes transferring from Texas Tech. She is a native of Bellport, NY and would like to play closer to home.

Also, Alyssa Dry and Alexandria Gulley rumored to be leaving Baylor, but no releases granted as of yet..


Guirantes was productive as a freshman, she'll get some attention. Dry and Gulley basically never played, so I don't think it affects Baylor.


Gulley is to remain at Baylor on a medical scholarship, per an article I read but can't post from my phone to here. Dry will presumably transfer.



_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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