View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/27/17 6:16 pm ::: The suffering of Trump voters the last 8 yrs |
Reply |
|
There will never be a President who does everything to everyone’s liking. There are things President Obama (and President Clinton) did that I do not like and conversely there are things I can point to that the Presidents Bush did that I agree with. So I am not 100% in lock step with the outgoing President but have supported him and the overall job he did.
And, if you recall, during the Presidential Campaign back in 2008 the campaign was halted because of the “historic crisis in our financial system.” Wall Street bailout negotiations intervened in the election process. The very sobering reality was that there likely could be a Depression and the world financial markets could collapse. The United States was losing 800,000 jobs a month and was poised to lose at least 10 million jobs the first year once the new President took office. We were in an economic freefall. So let us recall that ALL of America was suffering terribly at the beginning of Obama’s Presidency.
But I wanted to look back over the last 8 years and ask you a few questions. Since much of the rhetoric before Obama was elected was that he would impose Sharia Law, Take Away Your Guns, Create Death Panels, Destroy the Economy, Impose Socialism and, since you will agree that NONE of this came to pass, I was wondering: Why have you suffered so?
So let me ask: Gays and Lesbians can now marry and enjoy the benefits they had been deprived of. Has this caused your suffering?
When Obama took office, the Dow was 6,626. Now it is 19,875. Has this caused your suffering?
We had 82 straight months of private sector job growth – the longest streak in the history of the United States. Has this caused your suffering?
Especially considering where the economy was when he took over, an amazing 11.3 million new jobs were created under President Obama (far more than President Bush). Has this caused your suffering?
Obama has taken Unemployment from 10% down to 4.7%. Has this caused your suffering?
Homelessness among US Veterans has dropped by half. Has this caused your suffering?
Obama shut down the US secret overseas prisons. Has this caused your suffering?
President Obama has created a policy for the families of fallen soldiers to have their travel paid for to be there when remains are flown home. Has this caused your suffering?
We landed a rover on Mars. Has this caused your suffering?
He passed the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act. Has this caused your suffering?
Uninsured adults has decreased to below 10%: 90% of adults are insured – an increase of 20 Million Adults. Has this caused your suffering?
People are now covered for pre-existing conditions. Has this caused your suffering?
Insurance Premiums increased an average of $4,677 from 2002-2008, an increase of 58% under Bush. The growth of these insurance premiums has gone up $4,145 – a slower rate of increase. Has this caused your suffering?
Obama added Billions of dollars to mental health care for our Veterans. Has this caused your suffering?
Consumer confidence has gone from 37.7 to 98.1 during Obama’s tenure. Has this caused your suffering?
He passed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Has this caused your suffering?
His bi-annual Nuclear Summit convinced 16 countries to give up and destroy all their loose nuclear material so it could not be stolen. Has this caused your suffering?
He saved the US Auto industry. American cars sold at the beginning of his term were 10.4M and upon his exit 17.5M. Has this caused your suffering?
The deficit as a percentage of the GDP has gone from 9.8% to 3.2%. Has this caused your suffering?
The deficit itself was cut by $800 Billion Dollars. Has this caused your suffering?
Obama preserved the middle class tax cuts. Has this caused your suffering?
Obama banned solitary confinement for juveniles in federal prisons. Has this caused your suffering?
He signed Credit Card reform so that rates could not be raised without you being notified. Has this caused your suffering?
He outlawed Government contractors from discriminating against LGBT persons. Has this caused your suffering?
He doubled Pell Grants. Has this caused your suffering?
Abortion is down. Has this caused your suffering?
Violent crime is down. Has this caused your suffering?
He overturned the scientific ban on stem cell research. Has this caused your suffering?
He protected Net Neutrality. Has this caused your suffering?
Obamacare has extended the life of the Medicare insurance trust fund (will be solvent until 2030). Has this caused your suffering?
President Obama repealed Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. Has this caused your suffering?
He banned torture. Has this caused your suffering?
He negotiated with Syria to give up its chemical weapons and they were destroyed. Has this caused your suffering?
Solar and Wind Power are at an all time high. Has this caused your suffering?
High School Graduation rates hit 83% – an all time high. Has this caused your suffering?
Corporate profits are up by 144%. Has this caused your suffering?
He normalized relations with Cuba. Has this caused your suffering?
Reliance on foreign oil is at a 40 year low. Has this caused your suffering?
US Exports are up 28%. Has this caused your suffering?
He appointed the most diverse cabinet ever. Has this caused your suffering?
He reduced the number of troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Has this caused your suffering?
Yes, he killed Osama Bin Laden and retrieved all the documents in his possession for analysis. Perhaps THIS caused your suffering?
From an objective standpoint it would appear that the last eight years have seen some great progress and we were saved from a financial collapse. Things are not perfect. Things can always be better. We are on much better footing now than we were in 2008.
I look forward to understanding what caused you to suffer so much under Obama these last eight years.”
http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/02/22/trump-voters-say-suffered-8-years-obama-heres-perfect-response/
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 1:53 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Unemployment is only one metric to use. People who give up looking is not reflected in unemployment. People who want to work full-time but are only working part-time is not reflected in unemployment. Unemployment also doesn't reflect people who at one point had a good income and are now working for minimum wage.
Obama did not stop job export (nor did Bush, and Clinton signed a job export bill - NAFTA). Attacking job export was a big reason for the success of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. The effects of job export were not as apparent to the neo-liberals as they should have been.
Obama, like all of his predecessors did not stop illegal immigration, and illegal immigration has hurt American workers.
I think the coastal neo-liberals should re-think their support of job export and illegal immigration if they want to maximize their support. Taking a stand against illegal immigration is not going to cause the Hispanics to vote Republican. And the good news for them is that Trump has no intention to fully enforce immigration law - that is, put employers in jail or heavily fine them for illegally hiring illegal workers. They could get to Trump's left on the issue (left in that they are protecting American workers) advocating enforcement of the law with regard to employers.
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 11:42 am ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
Unemployment is only one metric to use. People who give up looking is not reflected in unemployment. People who want to work full-time but are only working part-time is not reflected in unemployment. Unemployment also doesn't reflect people who at one point had a good income and are now working for minimum wage.
Obama did not stop job export (nor did Bush, and Clinton signed a job export bill - NAFTA). Attacking job export was a big reason for the success of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. The effects of job export were not as apparent to the neo-liberals as they should have been.
Obama, like all of his predecessors did not stop illegal immigration, and illegal immigration has hurt American workers.
I think the coastal neo-liberals should re-think their support of job export and illegal immigration if they want to maximize their support. Taking a stand against illegal immigration is not going to cause the Hispanics to vote Republican. And the good news for them is that Trump has no intention to fully enforce immigration law - that is, put employers in jail or heavily fine them for illegally hiring illegal workers. They could get to Trump's left on the issue (left in that they are protecting American workers) advocating enforcement of the law with regard to employers. |
Do you have a definition?
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 12:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Unemployment is only one metric to use. People who give up looking is not reflected in unemployment. People who want to work full-time but are only working part-time is not reflected in unemployment. Unemployment also doesn't reflect people who at one point had a good income and are now working for minimum wage.
Obama did not stop job export (nor did Bush, and Clinton signed a job export bill - NAFTA). Attacking job export was a big reason for the success of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. The effects of job export were not as apparent to the neo-liberals as they should have been.
Obama, like all of his predecessors did not stop illegal immigration, and illegal immigration has hurt American workers.
I think the coastal neo-liberals should re-think their support of job export and illegal immigration if they want to maximize their support. Taking a stand against illegal immigration is not going to cause the Hispanics to vote Republican. And the good news for them is that Trump has no intention to fully enforce immigration law - that is, put employers in jail or heavily fine them for illegally hiring illegal workers. They could get to Trump's left on the issue (left in that they are protecting American workers) advocating enforcement of the law with regard to employers. |
Do you have a definition? |
I don't think there is one statistic to measure the worker situation. It's like measuring your health, you need more than one lab test done.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15758 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 1:09 pm ::: Re: The suffering of Trump voters the last 8 yrs |
Reply |
|
cthskzfn wrote: |
I look forward to understanding what caused you to suffer so much under Obama these last eight years.” |
Cthskzfn, you silliest of twits! Did you forget? Barack Hussein Obama is....BLACK. Of Negroid ethnicity. Can you not comprehend how being white, in a supremely Anglo-American society BUT presided over by a Negro is not suffering enough?
Never mind the factoids you spew, those Obvious Positives only the intellectually-challenged cannot comprehend--Obama and his entirely black family was a constant reminder that minorities can and do hold power in this land of The Kennedys and The Cleavers, The Rockefellers and The Bunkers.
Okay. Mayhaps I hyperbolize a bit. But only a tiny bit! I can't tell you how *I* suffered, from '08 on, when I'd encounter "friends" and neighbors who would admit their racial bias re: Obama. And I don't live in an area considered a hotbed of racial divide.
Obama Lover that I am, I, too, can list things that were flaws of his presidency. But they are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN, compared to A: his POSITIVES, and B: his successor, even one month in.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
myt
Joined: 29 Nov 2007 Posts: 3923 Location: California
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 1:29 pm ::: Re: The suffering of Trump voters the last 8 yrs |
Reply |
|
Howee wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
I look forward to understanding what caused you to suffer so much under Obama these last eight years.” |
Cthskzfn, you silliest of twits! Did you forget? Barack Hussein Obama is....BLACK. Of Negroid ethnicity. Can you not comprehend how being white, in a supremely Anglo-American society BUT presided over by a Negro is not suffering enough?
Never mind the factoids you spew, those Obvious Positives only the intellectually-challenged cannot comprehend--Obama and his entirely black family was a constant reminder that minorities can and do hold power in this land of The Kennedys and The Cleavers, The Rockefellers and The Bunkers.
Okay. Mayhaps I hyperbolize a bit. But only a tiny bit! I can't tell you how *I* suffered, from '08 on, when I'd encounter "friends" and neighbors who would admit their racial bias re: Obama. And I don't live in an area considered a hotbed of racial divide.
Obama Lover that I am, I, too, can list things that were flaws of his presidency. But they are FEW AND FAR BETWEEN, compared to A: his POSITIVES, and B: his successor, even one month in. |
Howee,
tsk, tsk... You know that Obama is only HALF black.
Unfortunately, the half he does represents appears to be too much for some.
Yes, Obama had his flaws; we all do.
However, the list of accomplishments he was able to achieve in the face of the GOP that was determined to fight him every step of the way is amazing._________________
SuziQ wrote: |
ima say this only once, and I'm never gonna say it again. Parker's damn good. |
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 1:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
If white Hillary Clinton lost because she followed black Barack Obama, how did black Barack Obama win two elections, one of which followed a black Barack Obama presidency?
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 2:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Unemployment is only one metric to use. People who give up looking is not reflected in unemployment. People who want to work full-time but are only working part-time is not reflected in unemployment. Unemployment also doesn't reflect people who at one point had a good income and are now working for minimum wage.
Obama did not stop job export (nor did Bush, and Clinton signed a job export bill - NAFTA). Attacking job export was a big reason for the success of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. The effects of job export were not as apparent to the neo-liberals as they should have been.
Obama, like all of his predecessors did not stop illegal immigration, and illegal immigration has hurt American workers.
I think the coastal neo-liberals should re-think their support of job export and illegal immigration if they want to maximize their support. Taking a stand against illegal immigration is not going to cause the Hispanics to vote Republican. And the good news for them is that Trump has no intention to fully enforce immigration law - that is, put employers in jail or heavily fine them for illegally hiring illegal workers. They could get to Trump's left on the issue (left in that they are protecting American workers) advocating enforcement of the law with regard to employers. |
Do you have a definition? |
I don't think there is one statistic to measure the worker situation. It's like measuring your health, you need more than one lab test done. |
i meant what is your definition of a "coastal neo-liberal".
FWIW, the list contained many more positive things than the unemployment picture. On the other hand, you seem to be hung up on one issue most of the time anyway.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 2:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
If white Hillary Clinton lost because she followed black Barack Obama, how did black Barack Obama win two elections, one of which followed a black Barack Obama presidency? |
What is the point you're trying to make here?
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 2:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Unemployment is only one metric to use. People who give up looking is not reflected in unemployment. People who want to work full-time but are only working part-time is not reflected in unemployment. Unemployment also doesn't reflect people who at one point had a good income and are now working for minimum wage.
Obama did not stop job export (nor did Bush, and Clinton signed a job export bill - NAFTA). Attacking job export was a big reason for the success of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. The effects of job export were not as apparent to the neo-liberals as they should have been.
Obama, like all of his predecessors did not stop illegal immigration, and illegal immigration has hurt American workers.
I think the coastal neo-liberals should re-think their support of job export and illegal immigration if they want to maximize their support. Taking a stand against illegal immigration is not going to cause the Hispanics to vote Republican. And the good news for them is that Trump has no intention to fully enforce immigration law - that is, put employers in jail or heavily fine them for illegally hiring illegal workers. They could get to Trump's left on the issue (left in that they are protecting American workers) advocating enforcement of the law with regard to employers. |
Do you have a definition? |
I don't think there is one statistic to measure the worker situation. It's like measuring your health, you need more than one lab test done. |
i meant what is your definition of a "coastal neo-liberal".
FWIW, the list contained many more positive things than the unemployment picture. On the other hand, you seem to be hung up on one issue most of the time anyway. |
You have to deal with the most important issues first.
Coastal neo-liberals are the Democrats on the coasts who subscribe to the new Democratic philosophy that arose with Bill Clinton. One that appeals to big rich donors and supports job export and historically low taxes on the rich. You would think that with Trump on the right talking about deportation and a wall, (which ironically, is not what the rich want and protects workres) the neo-liberals could have held their ground on illegal immigration. But instead they went running the other way with "build bridges not walls" and fully embraced illegal immigration (while also not calling for the law to be changed) . Which is something that Chris Matthews lamented on the night of the election on MSNBC.
Last edited by tfan on 02/28/17 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
norwester
Joined: 14 Jun 2006 Posts: 6375 Location: Seattle
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 2:33 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
The trap we fall into here is thinking that Trump supporters are making decisions based on logic.
Much of the reading I've done about folks doing actual research, or at least interviewing middle class and poor republican strongholds, or places that went red for Trump, logic doesn't factor into it much; therefore, trying to argue with logic (like the list of benefits in the OP) is a non-starter.
Two major motivating factors stood out for me in my reading:
1. Republican as an identity
When it comes down to it, people vote Republican because they and their family always have for generations. They may talk about issues of concern, etc., but when it comes down to casting their vote, they're most comfortable voting Republican because it's part of their identity. Nothing more.
2. The story they tell themselves about their lives
The story goes like this: they're standing in a long line. This line represents playing by the "rules". As they stand there, they watch the government (or Obama, etc.) usher minorities and women into line in front of them. Poor people. Homeless people. Immigrants. They're standing in line, playing by the rules, and yet everyone is ushered into line in front of them.
There is no arguing with either of these viewpoints with logic.
The only people you convince with logic are potentially the swing votes in the middle, or independents. It's probably worth your time having a conversation with them, but the large percentage of people falling into the two world views I've described will not be swayed with the 'accomplishments' laid out in the OP.
_________________ Don't you know the plural of "anecdote" is "data"?
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 2:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
norwester wrote: |
1. Republican as an identity
When it comes down to it, people vote Republican because they and their family always have for generations. They may talk about issues of concern, etc., but when it comes down to casting their vote, they're most comfortable voting Republican because it's part of their identity. Nothing more. |
That applies as much to Democrats and Republicans. All that campaigning the parties do in the swing states is only for a minority of voters.
Quote: |
2. The story they tell themselves about their lives
The story goes like this: they're standing in a long line. This line represents playing by the "rules". As they stand there, they watch the government (or Obama, etc.) usher minorities and women into line in front of them. Poor people. Homeless people. Immigrants. They're standing in line, playing by the rules, and yet everyone is ushered into line in front of them.
There is no arguing with either of these viewpoints with logic. |
Did you leave out illegal immigration so you wouldn't have to argue with it after you mentioned "play by the rules"? If you are an employer and you can employ a 55 year old white American male for your house and apartment painting business, or a 25 year old from <fill in any country outside the USA sending us economic migrants>, which would you hire? Rather hire a 63 year old American janitor or a 30 year old <fill in any country outside the USA sending us economic migrants>.?
It's also unnatural to expect people to want to be overrun by foreigners. That is why we have to be trained to like it. What is sufficient training for someone who has a corner office in a skyscraper and lives in a 2,500 square foot house in the suburbs, might not be sufficient training for someone who can't get a job washing dishes on the bad side of town or doesn't have a single person in their apartment complex who speaks English in their household.
Last edited by tfan on 02/28/17 2:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 2:48 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
Unemployment is only one metric to use. People who give up looking is not reflected in unemployment. People who want to work full-time but are only working part-time is not reflected in unemployment. Unemployment also doesn't reflect people who at one point had a good income and are now working for minimum wage.
Obama did not stop job export (nor did Bush, and Clinton signed a job export bill - NAFTA). Attacking job export was a big reason for the success of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. The effects of job export were not as apparent to the neo-liberals as they should have been.
Obama, like all of his predecessors did not stop illegal immigration, and illegal immigration has hurt American workers.
I think the coastal neo-liberals should re-think their support of job export and illegal immigration if they want to maximize their support. Taking a stand against illegal immigration is not going to cause the Hispanics to vote Republican. And the good news for them is that Trump has no intention to fully enforce immigration law - that is, put employers in jail or heavily fine them for illegally hiring illegal workers. They could get to Trump's left on the issue (left in that they are protecting American workers) advocating enforcement of the law with regard to employers. |
Do you have a definition? |
I don't think there is one statistic to measure the worker situation. It's like measuring your health, you need more than one lab test done. |
i meant what is your definition of a "coastal neo-liberal".
FWIW, the list contained many more positive things than the unemployment picture. On the other hand, you seem to be hung up on one issue most of the time anyway. |
You have to deal with the most important issues first.
Coastal neo-liberals are the Democrats on the coasts who subscribe to the new Democratic philosophy that arose with Bill Clinton. One that appeals to big rich donors and does things like condoning job export and historically low taxes on the rich. |
Yeah, they are the problem with the Democratic Party, and the reason for Bernie's rise. They are no friends of mine.
Let it be known that every major so-called "free trade" law was a Republican-led effort, with support by the majority of Republicans and the non-support of the majority of Democrats. Yes, Clinton signed NAFTA, which was produced during GHWB's tenure.
Of course, Clinton should have vetoed the thing.
So let's not kid ourselves- the "neo-liberal" policy is the whoring of the Democratic Party in order to match the already whored Republican Party for funds.
The major difference is that the Dems throw more crumbs to the "working man", "working poor", and non-worker than do Republicans, and Republicans will always reduce taxes on the extremely wealthy and will try to privative (read "profitize") everything.
All the rest from Limbaugh to OReilly to Jones to FOX NEWS is bullshit.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 2:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
norwester wrote: |
1. Republican as an identity
When it comes down to it, people vote Republican because they and their family always have for generations. They may talk about issues of concern, etc., but when it comes down to casting their vote, they're most comfortable voting Republican because it's part of their identity. Nothing more. |
That applies as much to Democrats and Republicans. All that campaigning the parties do in the swing states is only for a minority of voters.
Quote: |
2. The story they tell themselves about their lives
The story goes like this: they're standing in a long line. This line represents playing by the "rules". As they stand there, they watch the government (or Obama, etc.) usher minorities and women into line in front of them. Poor people. Homeless people. Immigrants. They're standing in line, playing by the rules, and yet everyone is ushered into line in front of them.
There is no arguing with either of these viewpoints with logic. |
Did you leave out illegal immigration so you wouldn't have to argue with it after you mentioned "play by the rules"? If you are an employer and you can employ a 55 year old white American male for your house and apartment painting business, or a 25 year old from <fill in any country outside the USA sending us economic migrants>, which would you hire? Rather hire a 63 year old American janitor or a 30 year old <fill in any country outside the USA sending us economic migrants>.?
It's also unnatural to expect people to want to be overrun by foreigners. That is why we have to be trained to like it. What is sufficient training for someone who has a corner office in a skyscraper and lives in a 2,500 square foot house in the sTHwreuburbs, might not be sufficient training for someone who can't get a job washing dishes on the bad side of town or doesn't have a single person in their apartment complex who speaks English in their household. |
It's illegal to hire illegals. Arrest the employer.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 3:07 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
norwester wrote: |
1. Republican as an identity
When it comes down to it, people vote Republican because they and their family always have for generations. They may talk about issues of concern, etc., but when it comes down to casting their vote, they're most comfortable voting Republican because it's part of their identity. Nothing more. |
That applies as much to Democrats and Republicans. All that campaigning the parties do in the swing states is only for a minority of voters.
Quote: |
2. The story they tell themselves about their lives
The story goes like this: they're standing in a long line. This line represents playing by the "rules". As they stand there, they watch the government (or Obama, etc.) usher minorities and women into line in front of them. Poor people. Homeless people. Immigrants. They're standing in line, playing by the rules, and yet everyone is ushered into line in front of them.
There is no arguing with either of these viewpoints with logic. |
Did you leave out illegal immigration so you wouldn't have to argue with it after you mentioned "play by the rules"? If you are an employer and you can employ a 55 year old white American male for your house and apartment painting business, or a 25 year old from <fill in any country outside the USA sending us economic migrants>, which would you hire? Rather hire a 63 year old American janitor or a 30 year old <fill in any country outside the USA sending us economic migrants>.?
It's also unnatural to expect people to want to be overrun by foreigners. That is why we have to be trained to like it. What is sufficient training for someone who has a corner office in a skyscraper and lives in a 2,500 square foot house in the sTHwreuburbs, might not be sufficient training for someone who can't get a job washing dishes on the bad side of town or doesn't have a single person in their apartment complex who speaks English in their household. |
It's illegal to hire illegals. Arrest the employer. |
In my example, the immigrant was legal. But yeah, arrest the employer. Neither party supports that practice and Trump has never said a word about it. I saw someone claim that after the first amnesty (1986/Reagan) they did briefly do that but were quickly convinced not to.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15758 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 4:02 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
It's also unnatural to expect people to want to be overrun by foreigners. That is why we have to be trained to like it. |
Remind me again....what 'training program' was provided by the Euros to the Algonquins, Cherokee, Iroquois, et. al.? And how DID they like it, in the end?
I got NO sympathy for folks who wanna bitch about the 'inconvenience' of immigrants, and cultures being overrun. Karma's a bitch, and the Iniquities of the Fathers are very real.....they will not remain only on the pages of history books (if they've even MADE it to those books!).
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 756 Location: Siege Perilous
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 4:06 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
This original post can be torn to shreds it's filled with so many holes. It's quite laughable.
By the way, most of us never suffered under Obama. We succeeded in life in spite of his Presidency. We just didn't trust your candidate and for many good reasons.
Stop living in this imaginary past and start dealing with the fact that the only real legacy of Obama's that will be remembered is the systematic destruction of the Democrat Party. Think things are going to get better for you? Just wait 2 more years when all of the Democrats from states in which Trump carried double-digit margins are up for re-election. It's going to be a bloodbath.
Last edited by Stonington_QB on 02/28/17 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 756 Location: Siege Perilous
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 4:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Howee wrote: |
I got NO sympathy for folks who wanna bitch about the 'inconvenience' of immigrants, and cultures being overrun. Karma's a bitch, and the Iniquities of the Fathers are very real.....they will not remain only on the pages of history books (if they've even MADE it to those books!). |
Who is bitching about the inconvenience of immigrants? The strawmen that live in your head?
I know a lot of (legal) immigrants. You don't even want to know what they really think of people like you.
|
|
RM619
Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 958 Location: Southern Calif.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 4:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Stonington_QB wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
I got NO sympathy for folks who wanna bitch about the 'inconvenience' of immigrants, and cultures being overrun. Karma's a bitch, and the Iniquities of the Fathers are very real.....they will not remain only on the pages of history books (if they've even MADE it to those books!). |
Who is bitching about the inconvenience of immigrants? The strawmen that live in your head?
I know a lot of (legal) immigrants. You don't even want to know what they really think of people like you. |
My family has also weathered the past leaders. Good or bad, we the people elected them. I always give the current POTUS the benefit to see what can be accomplished. I even survived through Clinton's reign when he killed off many manufacturing jobs in the mid 2000's
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 5:01 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
If white Hillary Clinton lost because she followed black Barack Obama, how did black Barack Obama win two elections, one of which followed a black Barack Obama presidency? |
What is the point you're trying to make here? |
Why didn't white people vote in Romney after 4 years of black Barack Obama?
|
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 5:06 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
tfan wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
If white Hillary Clinton lost because she followed black Barack Obama, how did black Barack Obama win two elections, one of which followed a black Barack Obama presidency? |
What is the point you're trying to make here? |
Why didn't white people vote in Romney after 4 years of black Barack Obama? |
I asked what is the point .
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006 Posts: 8869 Location: Niagara Falls
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 5:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Stonington_QB wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
I got NO sympathy for folks who wanna bitch about the 'inconvenience' of immigrants, and cultures being overrun. Karma's a bitch, and the Iniquities of the Fathers are very real.....they will not remain only on the pages of history books (if they've even MADE it to those books!). |
Who is bitching about the inconvenience of immigrants? The strawmen that live in your head?
I know a lot of (legal) immigrants. You don't even want to know what they really think of people like you. |
oh, why don't you tell us what they think of 'people like Howee'. you mean gay people? smart people? compassionate people? humorous people? please explain.
_________________ i'll always bleed Storm green.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9770
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 5:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
If white Hillary Clinton lost because she followed black Barack Obama, how did black Barack Obama win two elections, one of which followed a black Barack Obama presidency? |
What is the point you're trying to make here? |
Why didn't white people vote in Romney after 4 years of black Barack Obama? |
I asked what is the point . |
My question was demonstrating the point. And your answer is?
You are claiming Trump was elected as a backlash to a black president. Well, where was the backlash in 2012 to a black president?
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15758 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
Back to top |
Posted: 02/28/17 6:16 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Stonington_QB wrote: |
This original post can be torn to shreds it's filled with so many holes. It's quite laughable.
I'm listening....
By the way, most of us never suffered under Obama. We succeeded in life in spite of his Presidency. We just didn't trust your candidate and for many good reasons.
I'm listening....
Stop living in this imaginary past and start dealing with the fact that the only real legacy of Obama's that will be remembered is the systematic destruction of the Democrat Party. Think things are going to get better for you? Just wait 2 more years when all of the Democrats from states in which Trump carried double-digit margins are up for re-election. It's going to be a bloodbath. |
We shall see.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
|
|
|
|