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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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 Posted: 07/23/21 8:54 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| Appears to be all sports. If it was for football alone, they would have joined the league's emergency meeting on contingency plans moving forward. |
I try hard to avoid the political/logistical dealings of these conference shifts. But aren't there football powerhouses that do NOT play within their school's conference for other sports? (Notre Dame comes to mind, but I do NOT follow college football).
I think it's a little sad to see the decline of the Big XII, but it's certainly not unprecedented, and not even surprising.
Another question (possibly referenced above): does the whole NIL debate have any influence on this, or is that an obtuse connection?
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 07/23/21 9:46 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| Appears to be all sports. If it was for football alone, they would have joined the league's emergency meeting on contingency plans moving forward. |
I try hard to avoid the political/logistical dealings of these conference shifts. But aren't there football powerhouses that do NOT play within their school's conference for other sports? (Notre Dame comes to mind, but I do NOT follow college football).
I think it's a little sad to see the decline of the Big XII, but it's certainly not unprecedented, and not even surprising.
Another question (possibly referenced above): does the whole NIL debate have any influence on this, or is that an obtuse connection? |
The NIL is most definitely an influence. Money from donors to athletic departments is about to be shifted more towards the athletes themselves instead of the athletic department.
In addition, the SEC will be renewing its' TV contract in 2024 (talks will begin sooner rather than later). According to an article I read, their current contract pays the conference about $55 million/year and the current estimate is that it will jump to around $300 million/year. With the addition of Texas & Oklahoma, it will most likely go up higher than that. There is no way the Big XII would even get close to that.
As far as the question about schools playing outside their conference, Notre Dame and BYU are the 2 big ones that do it. The others are UMass, UConn, Liberty, Army and New Mexico State and they only do it because their main conferences either do not sponsor football at all or sponsor it at the FCS level instead.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: 07/24/21 12:31 am ::: |
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https://twitter.com/jimcoop1/status/1418696336812171264
Interesting reply to an interesting tweet. Now we set back and watch the madness unfold. Does bring up two interesting questions:
1. Will TAMU leave the SEC if Texas is admitted?
2. Will anyone besides TAMU take a principled stand over the perceived massive cash haul heading their way?
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taropatch
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 814
Location: Kau Rubbish Dump
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| Posted: 07/24/21 1:17 am ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote:
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As far as the question about schools playing outside their conference, Notre Dame and BYU are the 2 big ones that do it. The others are UMass, UConn, Liberty, Army and New Mexico State and they only do it because their main conferences either do not sponsor football at all or sponsor it at the FCS level instead.
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Hawaii (of the BW) football is Mountain West.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 07/24/21 5:36 am ::: |
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| Each time the SEC, ACC, Big Ten and PAC-8/10/12 grab teams it seems to have a ripple effect. As the BIG-12 or Mountain West pulled in replacements from other conferences those lower level conferences have to find replacements. The WAC used to have San Jose State and a bunch of other schools with State in the name. But they had to take schools like Seattle and Denver to survive. However I notice that they are still changing and even growing their number of schools since a few years ago when they were scrambling to stay viable. I suspect the Big-12 will try real hard to stay afloat with smaller schools as they did last time. But if not the BIG-12 it seems like some conference(s) will end up with insufficient teams.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 07/24/21 9:46 am ::: |
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| taropatch wrote: |
purduefanatic wrote:
| Quote: |
As far as the question about schools playing outside their conference, Notre Dame and BYU are the 2 big ones that do it. The others are UMass, UConn, Liberty, Army and New Mexico State and they only do it because their main conferences either do not sponsor football at all or sponsor it at the FCS level instead.
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Hawaii (of the BW) football is Mountain West. |
Thank you. I had forgotten about Hawaii. I was only focused on schools that play football as an independent, not in another conference.
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 07/24/21 10:26 am ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
https://twitter.com/jimcoop1/status/1418696336812171264
Interesting reply to an interesting tweet. Now we set back and watch the madness unfold. Does bring up two interesting questions:
1. Will TAMU leave the SEC if Texas is admitted?
2. Will anyone besides TAMU take a principled stand over the perceived massive cash haul heading their way? |
In this day and age of college sports, regional broadcasting plays a dominant role. The SEC has for years held a "gentleman's agreement" between South Carolina, Florida, and Georgia where it came to Clemson, Florida State (or Miami I suppose), and Georgia Tech. Perhaps also Kentucky in regards to Louisville. Of course, Tech once was a member of the SEC, but way before television broadcasting became what it is today.
If the SEC already has a major broadcasting share of a specific state or region around a specific state, then the need to add another major program from that region becomes moot. The SEC already has A&M for the state of Texas. So what would Texas add to the table??
Texas is the Big Daddy of Texas football, of course. So they could make Texas broadcasting viewership into a slam dunk. But the reason that the Big12 is in the dire straits it has been in, is because of how Texas bullied the conference for decades, getting the lion's share of.....everything.
Don't know what coverage they would bring: Oklahoma City is 43rd on the Neilsen DMA rankings (2020) and Tulsa is 58th. After that the population drops off precipitously, kinda like South Carolina does. South Carolina is a green state with lots of farming and timberland - Atlanta's city population almost equals SC's entire state population alone. But SC has a bigger population than Oklahoma does. Columbia ranks only 75th on the Neilsen DMA, and Charleston only 91st, but Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville/Anderson combined pulls 38th on the rankings, and Charlotte NC which is heavy Gamecock territory is 21st.
Adding Clemson to the SEC makes little to no TV revenue coverage sense, while Florida State and especially Georgia Tech makes much greater sense given their market coverage. Looks like Oklahoma would be coming along just for their sport's program's history of success (and even that mostly just for football), and their relationship history with Texas and the Red River Shootout.
But there is supposed to be a state law between Oklahoma and Ok. State that's similar between Virginia and VA Tech that's not supposed to separate them from each other. So not sure how that would work out if true. Seems like the most logical addition to the SEC would include a NC school, perhaps NC State: they are mostly umbilical-ed together, but the Wolfpack has been the red-headed stepchild of that relationship for generations, and Wake Forest is just too small. I think back when A&M and Missouri were added and more conference re-alignment was being talked about, NC State was a big name thrown around at the time.....
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 07/24/21 10:37 am ::: |
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| If there really have been talks of this for almost a year, I wonder if Kim Mulkey got wind of it and whether it spurred her decision to leave Baylor. |
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huskiemaniac
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 1049
Location: NE CT
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| Posted: 07/24/21 11:44 am ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| If there really have been talks of this for almost a year, I wonder if Kim Mulkey got wind of it and whether it spurred her decision to leave Baylor. |
I'd guess that's the general consensus.
As a UCONN WCB fan, I'm sick and tired of the sport being dragged around by the football gods.
Thus, I shall win Powerball tonight, call Geno tomorrow, and discuss the formation of the UCONN SPORTS WOMEN'S NETWORK: USWN
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: 07/24/21 12:48 pm ::: |
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| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
https://twitter.com/jimcoop1/status/1418696336812171264
Interesting reply to an interesting tweet. Now we set back and watch the madness unfold. Does bring up two interesting questions:
1. Will TAMU leave the SEC if Texas is admitted?
2. Will anyone besides TAMU take a principled stand over the perceived massive cash haul heading their way? |
In this day and age of college sports, regional broadcasting plays a dominant role. The SEC has for years held a "gentleman's agreement" between South Carolina, Florida, and Georgia where it came to Clemson, Florida State (or Miami I suppose), and Georgia Tech. Perhaps also Kentucky in regards to Louisville. Of course, Tech once was a member of the SEC, but way before television broadcasting became what it is today.
If the SEC already has a major broadcasting share of a specific state or region around a specific state, then the need to add another major program from that region becomes moot. The SEC already has A&M for the state of Texas. So what would Texas add to the table??
Texas is the Big Daddy of Texas football, of course. So they could make Texas broadcasting viewership into a slam dunk. But the reason that the Big12 is in the dire straits it has been in, is because of how Texas bullied the conference for decades, getting the lion's share of.....everything.
Don't know what coverage they would bring: Oklahoma City is 43rd on the Neilsen DMA rankings (2020) and Tulsa is 58th. After that the population drops off precipitously, kinda like South Carolina does. South Carolina is a green state with lots of farming and timberland - Atlanta's city population almost equals SC's entire state population alone. But SC has a bigger population than Oklahoma does. Columbia ranks only 75th on the Neilsen DMA, and Charleston only 91st, but Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville/Anderson combined pulls 38th on the rankings, and Charlotte NC which is heavy Gamecock territory is 21st.
Adding Clemson to the SEC makes little to no TV revenue coverage sense, while Florida State and especially Georgia Tech makes much greater sense given their market coverage. Looks like Oklahoma would be coming along just for their sport's program's history of success (and even that mostly just for football), and their relationship history with Texas and the Red River Shootout.
But there is supposed to be a state law between Oklahoma and Ok. State that's similar between Virginia and VA Tech that's not supposed to separate them from each other. So not sure how that would work out if true. Seems like the most logical addition to the SEC would include a NC school, perhaps NC State: they are mostly umbilical-ed together, but the Wolfpack has been the red-headed stepchild of that relationship for generations, and Wake Forest is just too small. I think back when A&M and Missouri were added and more conference re-alignment was being talked about, NC State was a big name thrown around at the time..... |
OU and OSU both have separate Board of Regents appointed by the governor and approved by the State Senate. I believe either could decide to leave without the other's consent, but the State government could attempt to place political pressure. SEC is solid Trump/Republican country, so I don't see the Oklahoma state government doing anything about it if thats the case.
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TechDawgMc
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 07/24/21 12:51 pm ::: |
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If the Big 10 is interested in Kansas, I think the Big 12 is dead. If not, then the remaining eight might hang together and look for a couple of other teams.
I'm not sure I like the idea of a Big 12/Pac 12 merger. 20 teams seems unmanageable. Though it might be a short term solution for both leagues as a hedge against raids.
I have wondered if the Big 10 would consider raiding the PAC. I can't see why they'd really be all that interested in KU -- and certainly don't get an interest in Iowa St, but would USC/UCLA be worth the travel?
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 07/24/21 3:05 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
But there is supposed to be a state law between Oklahoma and Ok. State that's similar between Virginia and VA Tech that's not supposed to separate them from each other. So not sure how that would work out if true. Seems like the most logical addition to the SEC would include a NC school, perhaps NC State: they are mostly umbilical-ed together, but the Wolfpack has been the red-headed stepchild of that relationship for generations, and Wake Forest is just too small. I think back when A&M and Missouri were added and more conference re-alignment was being talked about, NC State was a big name thrown around at the time..... |
OU and OSU both have separate Board of Regents appointed by the governor and approved by the State Senate. I believe either could decide to leave without the other's consent, but the State government could attempt to place political pressure. SEC is solid Trump/Republican country, so I don't see the Oklahoma state government doing anything about it if thats the case. |
I don't understand the causal political connection suggested in the bolded sentence. Could you explain why the political makeup of the SEC would affect a state government decision in Oklahoma. Aren't the five B12 states also Republican/Trump? |
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TechDawgMc
Joined: 12 Aug 2010
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Location: Temple, TX
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| Posted: 07/24/21 4:32 pm ::: |
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The local paper had an article today about Texas legislators being unsure about the UT move. I doubt anything will come of it, but it adds another layer to this.
One reason I'd see for the legislators to object -- the amount of money that comes in to communities (think Lubbock, Ft. Worth and Waco) because of games with OU and UT that won't be there if those three Big 12 Texas teams end up falling outside a power conference. While UT might make more money in the SEC, it's doubtful that the state of Texas would.
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summertime blues
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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| Posted: 07/24/21 10:18 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
But there is supposed to be a state law between Oklahoma and Ok. State that's similar between Virginia and VA Tech that's not supposed to separate them from each other. So not sure how that would work out if true. Seems like the most logical addition to the SEC would include a NC school, perhaps NC State: they are mostly umbilical-ed together, but the Wolfpack has been the red-headed stepchild of that relationship for generations, and Wake Forest is just too small. I think back when A&M and Missouri were added and more conference re-alignment was being talked about, NC State was a big name thrown around at the time..... |
OU and OSU both have separate Board of Regents appointed by the governor and approved by the State Senate. I believe either could decide to leave without the other's consent, but the State government could attempt to place political pressure. SEC is solid Trump/Republican country, so I don't see the Oklahoma state government doing anything about it if thats the case. |
I don't understand the causal political connection suggested in the bolded sentence. Could you explain why the political makeup of the SEC would affect a state government decision in Oklahoma. Aren't the five B12 states also Republican/Trump? |
Every GOP leader with ambition(which is a majority of the state GOP) sees mimicking Trump as their best foot forward(ex: google John Bennett, the current Chair of the state GOP.) The state government isn't going to let the flagship program of the state partner with "libs" or schools that don't reject CRT. If the Big 12 is dead no matter what, as it appears, no SEC likely means PAC 12. With that context, that's why I made said comment
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/24/21 10:57 pm ::: |
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| If they wind up with 4-6 schools the majors don't want they might be able to cobble together enough new members to keep the conference alive. If Texas and Oklahoma really leave, they're done being a power conference.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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| Posted: 07/25/21 8:45 am ::: |
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https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2021/07/24/big-ten-has-engaged-in-unofficial-talks-with-oklahoma-state-report/
This makes 3 schools the Big 10 has reached out to. Something of note, all reports indicate that Kansas/Iowa State reached out to establish a phone call with the Big 10, and the Big 10 reached out to OK State. My Pokes are most likely a lock. Looking at the top 3 big 10 sports:
Football-Iowa State has the perceived advantage, but OK State is maybe a half step behind them. Kansas remains a joke
Mens Basketball- Kansas still a blueblood, but more vulnerable the past few years. OK State is a team on the rise. Iowa State is garbage.
Wrestling- OK State would give the Big 10 4 perennial top 5 finishers at Nationals(OK State, Iowa, Ohio State, Penn State). Iowa State has wrestling. Kansas does not.
Kansas is trash at the #1 sport, a blue blood in #2, and doesn't even have #3. I see them as the odd man out. The question then becomes, will either the Pac 12 or ACC take them with their abysmal record in football over the past 10-15 years, and the recent scandals around basketball and football?
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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| Posted: 07/25/21 12:42 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2021/07/24/big-ten-has-engaged-in-unofficial-talks-with-oklahoma-state-report/
This makes 3 schools the Big 10 has reached out to. Something of note, all reports indicate that Kansas/Iowa State reached out to establish a phone call with the Big 10, and the Big 10 reached out to OK State. My Pokes are most likely a lock. Looking at the top 3 big 10 sports:
Football-Iowa State has the perceived advantage, but OK State is maybe a half step behind them. Kansas remains a joke
Mens Basketball- Kansas still a blueblood, but more vulnerable the past few years. OK State is a team on the rise. Iowa State is garbage.
Wrestling- OK State would give the Big 10 4 perennial top 5 finishers at Nationals(OK State, Iowa, Ohio State, Penn State). Iowa State has wrestling. Kansas does not.
Kansas is trash at the #1 sport, a blue blood in #2, and doesn't even have #3. I see them as the odd man out. The question then becomes, will either the Pac 12 or ACC take them with their abysmal record in football over the past 10-15 years, and the recent scandals around basketball and football? |
I like the idea of OK State in the B1G. I wonder how much power Iowa would have to keep ISU out.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 07/25/21 1:58 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| the Big 10 reached out to OK State. My Pokes are most likely a lock. |
Anything's possible, but every school in the Big 10 is a member of the AAU academically except for Nebraska, which was but lost that accreditation in 2011. OK State has never been an AAU member.
Plus, under your political theory, in the Big 10 the Cowboys would be joining some schools that are in verboten liberal states. Personally, I think the political makeup of state citizenry pales to insignificance compared the the big reason that drives conference realignment -- money, mainly from football first and men's basketball next. |
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 07/25/21 2:45 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
https://www.heartlandcollegesports.com/2021/07/24/big-ten-has-engaged-in-unofficial-talks-with-oklahoma-state-report/
This makes 3 schools the Big 10 has reached out to. Something of note, all reports indicate that Kansas/Iowa State reached out to establish a phone call with the Big 10, and the Big 10 reached out to OK State. My Pokes are most likely a lock. Looking at the top 3 big 10 sports:
Football-Iowa State has the perceived advantage, but OK State is maybe a half step behind them. Kansas remains a joke
Mens Basketball- Kansas still a blueblood, but more vulnerable the past few years. OK State is a team on the rise. Iowa State is garbage.
Wrestling- OK State would give the Big 10 4 perennial top 5 finishers at Nationals(OK State, Iowa, Ohio State, Penn State). Iowa State has wrestling. Kansas does not.
Kansas is trash at the #1 sport, a blue blood in #2, and doesn't even have #3. I see them as the odd man out. The question then becomes, will either the Pac 12 or ACC take them with their abysmal record in football over the past 10-15 years, and the recent scandals around basketball and football? |
Rather sad that all the analyses of this whole situation revolve around a handful of men's sports.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 07/25/21 2:53 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Personally, I think the political makeup of state citizenry pales to insignificance compared the the big reason that drives conference realignment -- money, mainly from football first and men's basketball next. |
Money. Period. There can be no other reason for such major upheaval. And yeah....*political* tendencies really shouldn't have a bearing.
Then -- when all is turned topsy-turvy -- what becomes of TX-Tech, TCU, K-State, and WVU?
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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| Posted: 07/25/21 4:46 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| the Big 10 reached out to OK State. My Pokes are most likely a lock. |
Anything's possible, but every school in the Big 10 is a member of the AAU academically except for Nebraska, which was but lost that accreditation in 2011. OK State has never been an AAU member.
Plus, under your political theory, in the Big 10 the Cowboys would be joining some schools that are in verboten liberal states. Personally, I think the political makeup of state citizenry pales to insignificance compared the the big reason that drives conference realignment -- money, mainly from football first and men's basketball next. |
On the AAU front, every report indicated the Big 10 themselves contacted OSU. My guess is they are willing to cave on that at this point. OSU is a member of another research organization that all AAU schools are a part of, so perhaps they would push for OSU to become AAU.
As sad as this sounds, I don't think the State government will care as much about OSU's placement than OU's. OU into the SEC will allow them to basically argue OSU had no choice, and had to choose the lesser of two liberal evils.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 07/26/21 9:34 am ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| the Big 10 reached out to OK State. My Pokes are most likely a lock. |
Anything's possible, but every school in the Big 10 is a member of the AAU academically except for Nebraska, which was but lost that accreditation in 2011. OK State has never been an AAU member.
Plus, under your political theory, in the Big 10 the Cowboys would be joining some schools that are in verboten liberal states. Personally, I think the political makeup of state citizenry pales to insignificance compared the the big reason that drives conference realignment -- money, mainly from football first and men's basketball next. |
On the AAU front, every report indicated the Big 10 themselves contacted OSU. My guess is they are willing to cave on that at this point. OSU is a member of another research organization that all AAU schools are a part of, so perhaps they would push for OSU to become AAU.
As sad as this sounds, I don't think the State government will care as much about OSU's placement than OU's. OU into the SEC will allow them to basically argue OSU had no choice, and had to choose the lesser of two liberal evils. |
I like the thought of OK State and Iowa State in the Big Ten. As a college basketball fan, I also like Kansas but we all know this is strictly about football and money.
I'm very curious to see what comes from Texas A&M later today (I think they are having a call or making a statement if I remember correctly). Clearly they have been vocal about NOT wanting Texas in the SEC as they want to remain the only member of the league from the state. If this is happening, does A&M basically flip off the SEC and say they are going to explore other opportunities and may leave? If so, I think they would be highly sought after by all of the Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12. If they become available, I would think the Big Ten would absolutely love to add OK State and Texas A&M. Of course, not only does that mean caving on the AAU membership thing for OK State, it also means adding 2 members that do NOT currently connect by state. They have always only added schools from states that border current member states and the Big Ten does not currently have members in any state that borders Oklahoma or Texas.
Anyway, not sure how much any of this really matters anymore. It's about positioning the league to capitalize on new TV deals when it comes to the sport of football.
Last edited by purduefanatic on 07/26/21 12:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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At least KU makes some geographic sense and has a strong men's bball program. I do NOT want to see Iowa St. in the B1G. 