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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66900 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 07/12/21 9:08 am ::: The Olympic Break |
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Back before the 2004 Olympics and again during the 2008, 2012, and 2016 breaks we discussed the best way for the WNBA to deal with the Summer Olympics happening in the middle of the season. In 2004 nobody argued more forcefully for a break than I did.
Now, entering the fifth cycle of taking an Olympic break, I'm not pleased with the way it's working. It's a major buzzkill to the league, wiping out whatever momentum or attention we might have garnered during the season.
So, let's reopen this discussion. What should the W do to deal with the Summer Olympics?
A) Continue to break. We've seen how that works.
B) Play through. That presents some issues. Is it fair to make teams who have multiple Olympians play without them? Would Olympians get paid for the games they miss while representing their country? Would teams missing Olympians be allowed to sign replacements? How would that affect the salary cap? If teams played without Olympians would anyone pay to see it? Would anyone watch it on TV? Would anyone watch any WNBA games while the Olympics are on another channel?
C) Finish the season before the Olympics. That would mean cramming 36 games plus playoffs into 10 weeks, playing a shorter regular season, or starting earlier. Cramming would increase the chances of injury and might well hurt Team USA's chances at Gold. Starting early would mean even less preseason practice time, more missing players who can't leave their European teams until late May, and possibly issues with venue availability for teams who share with NBA clubs. Shortening the season also raises the question of whether players get full pay. A combination of these could work. If we start in mid-May and schedule a little more aggressively, getting 28 games and playoffs finished before mid August might be possible. In 2000, when the Olympics started in mid September, the league played a 32 game season (including an All Star break) and playoffs in 90 days.
D) Break just for the two weeks of the Olympics instead of the five weeks that we break now. This could be accompanied by lighter scheduling in the last couple of weeks before the games as players need to work with their national teams.
E) Move to a winter schedule. Assuming, of course, that any players would play for WNBA pay instead of the greater money they can get in Europe and elsewhere.
F) Take the year off. That would give the players a chance to take a little time off every four years instead of playing all the time. It's drastic, but might as well throw it out there.
G) Something else. You have a better answer? Here's your chance to let everyone know.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11140
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Posted: 07/12/21 9:18 am ::: |
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There's no good answer. I would like a shorter break but the reality is that the Olympics are far more important to players, coaches, fans and shoe companies than the WNBA -- so if you make players choose, they will choose the Olympics.
If the break is shorter, more elite players miss more games, which not only hurts teams but the league as a whole.
This might be the best we can do ...
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 07/12/21 9:42 am ::: |
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What about if instead of a whole season, they turned it into a half season that took place after the Olympics to capitalize on the attention the Olympics bring.
Perhaps have an extended training camp before the Olympics, then break.
And what if instead of a normal format, they came back and just had a 12 team playoff? Start with a round robin "group" stage and kinda follow the format of the Olympics themselves...except have the elimination stage games be at least a 3 game series.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16358 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 07/12/21 9:53 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
There's no good answer. I would like a shorter break but the reality is that the Olympics are far more important to players, coaches, fans and shoe companies than the WNBA -- so if you make players choose, they will choose the Olympics.
If the break is shorter, more elite players miss more games, which not only hurts teams but the league as a whole.
This might be the best we can do ... |
It's more important to 12 players. For most of the league (players and coaches) there is no personal importance of the Olympics.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11140
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Posted: 07/12/21 10:09 am ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
There's no good answer. I would like a shorter break but the reality is that the Olympics are far more important to players, coaches, fans and shoe companies than the WNBA -- so if you make players choose, they will choose the Olympics.
If the break is shorter, more elite players miss more games, which not only hurts teams but the league as a whole.
This might be the best we can do ... |
It's more important to 12 players. For most of the league (players and coaches) there is no personal importance of the Olympics. |
There are foreign Olympians too ... don't know how many, but let's say there's 12 more. That's 24, out of 144, or 16% of the league.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 1216
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Posted: 07/12/21 10:22 am ::: |
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for the non-olympians, why not have a summer league type of tournament. put some prize money on it...
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16358 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 07/12/21 10:48 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
There's no good answer. I would like a shorter break but the reality is that the Olympics are far more important to players, coaches, fans and shoe companies than the WNBA -- so if you make players choose, they will choose the Olympics.
If the break is shorter, more elite players miss more games, which not only hurts teams but the league as a whole.
This might be the best we can do ... |
It's more important to 12 players. For most of the league (players and coaches) there is no personal importance of the Olympics. |
There are foreign Olympians too ... don't know how many, but let's say there's 12 more. That's 24, out of 144, or 16% of the league. |
And I suppose we should count 3-on-3, which is apparently an event for some reason.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 07/12/21 10:51 am ::: |
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ClayK wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
There's no good answer. I would like a shorter break but the reality is that the Olympics are far more important to players, coaches, fans and shoe companies than the WNBA -- so if you make players choose, they will choose the Olympics.
If the break is shorter, more elite players miss more games, which not only hurts teams but the league as a whole.
This might be the best we can do ... |
It's more important to 12 players. For most of the league (players and coaches) there is no personal importance of the Olympics. |
There are foreign Olympians too ... don't know how many, but let's say there's 12 more. That's 24, out of 144, or 16% of the league. |
I've got 18, though I may have missed some.
Park Ji-su
Liz Cambage
Bec Allen
Ezi Magbegor
Leilani Mitchell
Stephanie Talbot
Julie Allemand
Emma Meesseman
Natalie Achonwa
Bridget Carleton
Kia Nurse
Kayla Alexander
Marine Johannes
Gabby Williams
Astou Ndour
Jazmon Gwathmey
Nneka Ogwumike
Chiney Ogwumike
And then there are 3x3 players. Though I think only the Americans have WNBA players on that team. But that's 3 more.
So at least 21+12 for 33 out of the 144. Or 21.5% of the league. Not an insignificant number.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66900 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 07/12/21 10:58 am ::: |
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justintyme wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
There's no good answer. I would like a shorter break but the reality is that the Olympics are far more important to players, coaches, fans and shoe companies than the WNBA -- so if you make players choose, they will choose the Olympics.
If the break is shorter, more elite players miss more games, which not only hurts teams but the league as a whole.
This might be the best we can do ... |
It's more important to 12 players. For most of the league (players and coaches) there is no personal importance of the Olympics. |
There are foreign Olympians too ... don't know how many, but let's say there's 12 more. That's 24, out of 144, or 16% of the league. |
I've got 18, though I may have missed some.
Park Ji-su
Liz Cambage
Bec Allen
Ezi Magbegor
Leilani Mitchell
Stephanie Talbot
Julie Allemand
Emma Meesseman
Natalie Achonwa
Bridget Carleton
Kia Nurse
Kayla Alexander
Marine Johannes
Gabby Williams
Astou Ndour
Jazmon Gwathmey
Nneka Ogwumike
Chiney Ogwumike
And then there are 3x3 players. Though I think only the Americans have WNBA players on that team. But that's 3 more.
So at least 21+12 for 33 out of the 144. Or 21.5% of the league. Not an insignificant number. |
You're assuming all those players would choose the Olympics over the W if forced to choose. All we know is they're going to the Olympics when not forced to choose.
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I ain't got a home
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 07/12/21 11:41 am ::: |
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I'm actually ok with it as is. Because the long break gives injured players time to heal, it's almost like it is two seasons instead of one. And I think for the 80% who aren't playing in the Olympics it's the break they never otherwise get in their year-round schedules. A shorter break would of course be better for us fans - five weeks seems like a very long time, even with Olympic entertainment in the middle.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 07/12/21 11:43 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
justintyme wrote: |
ClayK wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
It's more important to have 12 players. For most of the league (players and coaches) there is no personal importance of the Olympics. |
There are foreign Olympians too ... don't know how many, but let's say there's 12 more. That's 24, out of 144, or 16% of the league. |
I've got 18, though I may have missed some. ...
And then there are 3x3 players. Though I think only the Americans have WNBA players on that team. But that's 3 more.
So at least 21+12 for 33 out of the 144. Or 21.5% of the league. Not an insignificant number. |
You're assuming all those players would choose the Olympics over the W if forced to choose. All we know is they're going to the Olympics when not forced to choose. |
You bring up an interesting point. In the past, it would be seemingly unthinkable as an American athlete to pass up an opportunity to represent your country in the Olympics, and you'd likely be called Anti-American (amongst, erh, other terms). Nowadays, we're sociopolitically at a point where one can question aloud whether it's worth it to represent the USA (or just straight-up choose to skip it) and have swaths of people be supportive about it.
I still think this League having a 2-3 week break during the actual Olympics themselves makes sense, if nothing else but because it'd be too difficult to keep viewers' attention during that time. The 5 weeks it is now is absolutely ludicrous though. Keep the regular season going virtually right up until the Olympics – if qualified athletes want to play in the Olympics, they'd simply have to miss some regular-season games, with some teams likely having to sign a hardship player or two, and that's that. If they really want to put that kind of hardship on their WNBA team and jeopardize their own eligibility to earn end-of-season awards, so be it.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 07/12/21 11:44 am ::: |
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To me, one of the the biggest problems I have with the Olympics is not even the break, it's the constant rollercoaster prior to the break.
Some examples below:
We all know about the Taurasi time off (I'm sure she isn't the only one)
Random international commitments that take players away from the league for extended periods
Lack of overall focus from the stars
ex: Cambage laughing all game right before the break while Griner drops 33 and 14 on her. I love the Mercury but I want to get the Aces best, not beat them because they aren't trying.
I am sure there are plenty more but the point I am making is that nobody seems to give a shit about the season before the break and that's a problem to me. Especially as a fan when I know that Taurasi is just resting while we are .500 and fighting for a playoff spot.
Moving to Winter is my number one solution. Promoting the leagues stars while college stars are playing. Winter is when basketball fans are thinking about basketball. It just makes the most sense for me now that there are higher salaries. Make players choose between running their body into the ground and playing here in the states.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24349 Location: London
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Posted: 07/12/21 2:14 pm ::: |
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mercfan wrote: |
Moving to Winter is my number one solution. Promoting the leagues stars while college stars are playing. Winter is when basketball fans are thinking about basketball. It just makes the most sense for me now that there are higher salaries. Make players choose between running their body into the ground and playing here in the states. |
If you move to winter, that's not the choice. The choice is US or overseas. Salaries may have gone up, but you can bet that the likes of Griner, Vandersloot and JJones are still getting a hell of a lot more from UMMC than they're earning in the US.
Of course, if a bunch of stars chose Europe instead, then the top WNBA salaries could go to the next tier, thereby raising that group's expected salaries in the US (and making them more likely to stay). So maybe you wouldn't lose everyone; but there'd be a bunch. Also it's never just been about when the players want to play. It's also been about filling arenas, and TV slots, when the men aren't playing. Would the league get lost even more than it currently does if you tried to play it in winter against different (and generally greater) competition? |
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 981 Location: Bing-town
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Posted: 07/12/21 2:31 pm ::: |
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We don't have to wonder if anyone would skip the Olympics to play in the WNBA.
American players don't even skip their foreign playoffs to get here in time for the season.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 07/12/21 2:45 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
mercfan wrote: |
Moving to Winter is my number one solution. Promoting the leagues stars while college stars are playing. Winter is when basketball fans are thinking about basketball. It just makes the most sense for me now that there are higher salaries. Make players choose between running their body into the ground and playing here in the states. |
If you move to winter, that's not the choice. The choice is US or overseas. Salaries may have gone up, but you can bet that the likes of Griner, Vandersloot and JJones are still getting a hell of a lot more from UMMC than they're earning in the US.
Of course, if a bunch of stars chose Europe instead, then the top WNBA salaries could go to the next tier, thereby raising that group's expected salaries in the US (and making them more likely to stay). So maybe you wouldn't lose everyone; but there'd be a bunch. Also it's never just been about when the players want to play. It's also been about filling arenas, and TV slots, when the men aren't playing. Would the league get lost even more than it currently does if you tried to play it in winter against different (and generally greater) competition? |
I think you have a better chance of filling arenas during a traditional basketball season than you do when most people want to spend time outside. I can’t imagine the Chicago Bulls or Minnesota Timberwolves selling many tickets in a low stakes game in the summer.
Gotta promote basketball when people care about basketball. The nba playoffs aside, nobody is thinking about the sport at this time of the year.
You make a good point about television and I don’t know how that would all be worked out. I do think it’s great for young kids to see the talent difference if a college game was on the front end of a back to back with a WNBA game. I think we are missing that in our league. Most college fans care about basketball between November and March.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 07/12/21 2:46 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
mercfan wrote: |
Moving to Winter is my number one solution. Promoting the leagues stars while college stars are playing. Winter is when basketball fans are thinking about basketball. It just makes the most sense for me now that there are higher salaries. Make players choose between running their body into the ground and playing here in the states. |
If you move to winter, that's not the choice. The choice is US or overseas. Salaries may have gone up, but you can bet that the likes of Griner, Vandersloot and JJones are still getting a hell of a lot more from UMMC than they're earning in the US.
Of course, if a bunch of stars chose Europe instead, then the top WNBA salaries could go to the next tier, thereby raising that group's expected salaries in the US (and making them more likely to stay). So maybe you wouldn't lose everyone; but there'd be a bunch. Also it's never just been about when the players want to play. It's also been about filling arenas, and TV slots, when the men aren't playing. Would the league get lost even more than it currently does if you tried to play it in winter against different (and generally greater) competition? |
I think you have a better chance of filling arenas during a traditional basketball season than you do when most people want to spend time outside. I can’t imagine the Chicago Bulls or Minnesota Timberwolves selling many tickets in a low stakes game in the summer.
Gotta promote basketball when people care about basketball. The nba playoffs aside, nobody is thinking about the sport at this time of the year.
You make a good point about television and I don’t know how that would all be worked out. I do think it’s great for young kids to see the talent difference if a college game was on the front end of a back to back with a WNBA game. I think we are missing that in our league. Most college fans care about basketball between November and March.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66900 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 07/12/21 2:58 pm ::: |
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mercfan wrote: |
I do think it’s great for young kids to see the talent difference if a college game was on the front end of a back to back with a WNBA game |
The present set up, where basketball fans go from March Madness to the NBA playoffs to early season WNBA games, does the league no favors in terms of perception
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I ain't got a home
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 07/12/21 3:05 pm ::: |
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Does seem rather strange the in the rest of the basketball world men and women's leagues play during basketball season while that seems to be out of the question in the US.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 07/12/21 3:13 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
mercfan wrote: |
I do think it’s great for young kids to see the talent difference if a college game was on the front end of a back to back with a WNBA game |
The present set up, where basketball fans go from March Madness to the NBA playoffs to early season WNBA games, does the league no favors in terms of perception |
I definitely get afterthought vibes.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 07/12/21 3:14 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
Also it's never just been about when the players want to play. It's also been about filling arenas, and TV slots, when the men aren't playing. Would the league get lost even more than it currently does if you tried to play it in winter against different (and generally greater) competition? |
THIS! (I might quibble about 'greater', but certainly general perception). And it would inevitable lead to more comparisons with men's college basketball and how any college team could whip a WNBA team...ad nauseum. I think they chose well to make it a summer league in the US.
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013 Posts: 1910
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Posted: 07/12/21 3:30 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
Also it's never just been about when the players want to play. It's also been about filling arenas, and TV slots, when the men aren't playing. Would the league get lost even more than it currently does if you tried to play it in winter against different (and generally greater) competition? |
THIS! (I might quibble about 'greater', but certainly general perception). And it would inevitable lead to more comparisons with men's college basketball and how any college team could whip a WNBA team...ad nauseum. I think they chose well to make it a summer league in the US. |
Ultimately, I’d rather random people spend their time debating nonsense about who would win between the Aces and UNLV men than have a tampered WNBA season every four years. The Olympics have absolutely hurt the league in terms of our timing over the years. It just feels hard to be a W fan during Olympic years. It’s not hard for me to tune out tired sexism.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16358 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 07/12/21 3:35 pm ::: |
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I feel like I used to know this, but what does the NHL do in Olympic years?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66900 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 07/12/21 3:37 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
I feel like I used to know this, but what does the NHL do in Olympic years? |
They used to break, but they stopped for the last Olympics
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021 Posts: 2864
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Posted: 07/12/21 3:40 pm ::: |
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I have no solution but I appreciate the good intentions of everyone in this thread. <3
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16358 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 07/12/21 3:45 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
I feel like I used to know this, but what does the NHL do in Olympic years? |
They used to break, but they stopped for the last Olympics |
Do they lose a comparable number of players?
I honestly have no idea. I think I might have watched a hockey game once ...
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