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Is this why the W struggles to be taken seriously?
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How do you feel about the overall coverage in general of those who write about/analyze the League?
It's good/good enough
11%
 11%  [ 3 ]
It's bad/not good enough
73%
 73%  [ 19 ]
No opinion/Don't really care about the overall coverage
15%
 15%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 26

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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 12:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Imo people with borderline interest will give it a look if it's written about in ways that are even semi-compelling.

Unfortunately, those of us that see the hit rates on some of these articles aren't necessarily as confident. I guarantee you there'd be far more interest in an article on Sabrina Ionescu's favourite pair of shoes.

Interesting. I genuinely wouldn't have guessed that. I'm kind of disappointed people are that... basic, for lack of a better sentiment, but perhaps I myself am naive to be so. I wish there were a way to find out the demographics of the people that click on those types of articles. If I were to guess, I'd say it's a young-people thing, but maybe a superstar's favorite shoe is something anyone would be interested in. (Though not me, obviously. Embarassed ) Gotta love modern society... Confused


johnjohnW wrote:
I mean, wasn't Stanley specifically hired to oversee the tanking process? She wasn't hired to be a winning coach. I don't see the point in firing her. Let it run its course.

Serious question: Do they even know they're tanking? Their 2019 lottery pick is in & out of the starting lineup, their 2020 lottery pick often gets buried in the bench even when healthy, and their 2021 lottery pick was simply a complete & utter reach who maybe shouldn't even be on a roster right now. Plus, the way they signed multiple free agents to mid-term deals, I really think they thought they were moving in the right direction. And they did look marginally better last year – they even beat the Storm last season.


awhom111 wrote:
Speaking of tanking, are there any good names for future tanks at this point? If not, I nominate Puking for Paige.

Hard to find the right synonym for the word, "tanking." In terms of Paige Bueckers, I'd offer Bungling for Bueckers.

For next year, it depends on who you think is the consensus #1. I think the Fever ought to draft Rhyne Howard, since positionally they seem to be weakest at SF. Lyin' for Rhyne? Tryin' for Rhyne? Or maybe Sour, or Cower, for Howard. Meh. They could be better. But they could also be worse, so I feel like I contributed. Mr. Green


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 1:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whine for Rhyne. Obviously.


Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 1:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Interesting. I genuinely wouldn't have guessed that. I'm kind of disappointed people are that... basic, for lack of a better sentiment, but perhaps I myself am naive to be so. I wish there were a way to find out the demographics of the people that click on those types of articles. If I were to guess, I'd say it's a young-people thing, but maybe a superstar's favorite shoe is something anyone would be interested in. (Though not me, obviously. :oops: ) Gotta love modern society... :?

I am always amused when hardcore sports fans rediscover that the "casual" part of "casual sports fans" really means "casual."



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ucbart



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 8:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, when your GM, who in no way, shape, or form should've gotten the job is a beloved member of WBB royalty, is a media person in the off-season, and works for ESPN, what do you think will happen?

WBB suffers from "our-girls" syndrome and the media is as bad as the fans. I'm sorry, do you think Monica McNutt would ever say anything bad about a team? It is EVIDENT that these media people are simply talking heads for the players.

Even Mechelle Voepel wears kid gloves with players.....and look what Cappie did to her.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I had it as "Stop Tryin' for Rhyne", for what it's worth.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cower for Howard



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Soured on Howard, let's pick some unknown!


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
I am always amused when hardcore sports fans rediscover that the "casual" part of "casual sports fans" really means "casual."

Are there that many of us? Razz I'm either all in or all out as a sports fan myself. Haven't watched an NBA game in full in at least a decade, for Seattle-related reasons...

ucbart wrote:
Well, when your GM, who in no way, shape, or form should've gotten the job is a beloved member of WBB royalty, is a media person in the off-season, and works for ESPN, what do you think will happen?

WBB suffers from "our-girls" syndrome and the media is as bad as the fans. I'm sorry, do you think Monica McNutt would ever say anything bad about a team? It is EVIDENT that these media people are simply talking heads for the players.

Even Mechelle Voepel wears kid gloves with players.....and look what Cappie did to her.

+1 to all of this, other than not knowing who Monica McNutt is code for. Laughing

Richyyy wrote:
I had it as "Stop Tryin' for Rhyne", for what it's worth.

Touché. Very Happy If one thinks the Fever is a dying franchise, perhaps they're truly "Dyin' for Rhyne"? 😅


myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howard is good but I don't think she's a game changer. Could be wrong of course... and good would be good for this team.


Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 10:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
Well, when your GM, who in no way, shape, or form should've gotten the job is a beloved member of WBB royalty, is a media person in the off-season, and works for ESPN, what do you think will happen?

WBB suffers from "our-girls" syndrome and the media is as bad as the fans. I'm sorry, do you think Monica McNutt would ever say anything bad about a team? It is EVIDENT that these media people are simply talking heads for the players.

Even Mechelle Voepel wears kid gloves with players.....and look what Cappie did to her.


The people who cover the games have conflicts of interest - they are paid by the people who own the teams, or the network that pays for the games. They don't want to trash players or coaches, so the take pot shots at the refs who are always fair game....


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another angle on this:

All sports' coverage involves people features, or stories about individuals. But for the NBA, MLB and others, you get some stories that let you know Player A is sort of, or really, a jerk. Let's take Barry Bonds, who was roundly hated and booed, or now, the Aaron Rodgers saga.

But the WNBA coverage is all positive, all how wonderful Our Girls are, all about the struggles, etc.

Though we carp on this board about Taurasi, where's the story on ESPN about how she's bailed on a couple seasons, or helped Phoenix tank? Where was the The Athletic story criticizing Sylvia Fowles for abandoning Chicago?

And where's the story about WNBA expansion that discusses the fact that franchises have no value and that owners lose money every year? The stories about the Oakland A's here in the Bay Area put the owner on blast every other day, and they get into the financial realities.

But no, let's write another story about how remarkable Sue Bird is ...



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 11:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You also have to wonder whether it's writers that don't want to write these stories, or publications/websites/whatevers that don't want to publish them. Because there are freelance journalists these days who are trying to make their living by writing, at least in part, about women's basketball. They'll pitch stories, and write the ones that someone is willing to pay them to write. If it's the latest news about Essence Carson's hat collection or Natalie Achonwa's dogs that pay the rent and put your dinner on the table, that's probably going to be the one you write.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/21/21 12:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
You also have to wonder whether it's writers that don't want to write these stories, or publications/websites/whatevers that don't want to publish them. Because there are freelance journalists these days who are trying to make their living by writing, at least in part, about women's basketball. They'll pitch stories, and write the ones that someone is willing to pay them to write. If it's the latest news about Essence Carson's hat collection or Natalie Achonwa's dogs that pay the rent and put your dinner on the table, that's probably going to be the one you write.


Very true.

But then again, publications now have a way to track just how many readers each story gets, and if analytic stories about the WNBA got more clicks that stories about Essence Carson's hats, they'd want more analytics.

So at one level, this is all driven by the general public's interest in serious coverage of the women's game. I started trying to do this in 1997 with Full Court Press, and the audience just wasn't there then, and I don't know if it's here now.

The fans of the women's game, in general, want to love Our Girls, and that's their connection. The fans of the men's game, in general, want to win and be part of the competitive aspect of the game (including analysis), and that's their connection. (Note the "in general" ...)



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blue crabs & basketba



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PostPosted: 06/21/21 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
I think the problem (if it even is one) is that the W media actually loves the league and wants it to succeed, so they don't have a vested interest in anything hyper critical. Pointing out how bad a team is, while accurate and worthy of discussion, would be fodder for the trolls who think every W team is as bad as the Fever are. Do we really want Stephen A Smith squawking about how abysmal the Fever are?

I definitely think the Fever can rebound from this but it's going to take a little bit longer. They might set the record for most consecutive missed playoffs.


There is definitely truth to this. The media who cover the W are pioneers in a way. They are going to think twice before putting something or someone on blast. Especially with how vocal and critical the players can be on the reverse side of things.

In terms of the Fever, it is sad. The league needs expansion NOW. I don't want to watch a team with 3 consecutive number one picks on the roster. The Fever would actually be pretty decent/good in a 16 team league with their current roster.

I want to see a league where players like Sophie Cunningham, Rachel Banham, Shatori Walker-Kimbrough matter as role players because every team isn't loaded with 4 Olympians. There are way way way too many talented players who are either at the end of the bench or out of the league completely.



100% agree


ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 5:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was just thinking about the CONTENT of the reporting of the NBA on tv, radio and social media. Probably half of it is incessant speculation, gossip consisting of perceived slights, and disrespect, and any other silly thing at the moment.

Are there media members committed to generating this type of chatter for the wnba, and would the W even want it? The league office has benefitted from the under the radar profile for some of stupid things they've done over the years, and, some players have too with off the court issues.


mercfan



Joined: 08 May 2013
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 6:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChicagoAnnie wrote:
I was just thinking about the CONTENT of the reporting of the NBA on tv, radio and social media. Probably half of it is incessant speculation, gossip consisting of perceived slights, and disrespect, and any other silly thing at the moment.

Are there media members committed to generating this type of chatter for the wnba, and would the W even want it? The league office has benefitted from the under the radar profile for some of stupid things they've done over the years, and, some players have too with off the court issues.


AND would it fly? The average WNBA player is more in tune with critical think pieces and media coverage than what you see in the NBA. That's no disrespect to the men but the women seem to be much more aware of their surroundings and the impact of their decisions. I don't know if this is related to salary levels or what.

It is harder to criticize the individual players in the WNBA when every single article is likely picked up by the players themselves.

LeBron quite literally isn't paying attention to what anybody on ESPN is saying about him because it happens thousands of times a day. When 100,000 twitter accounts are blowing up about it, no reporter is ever prepared or expecting a response from him when they say he "bailed on his team".

We aren't there yet in terms of abundant coverage of the league. In order to get to this point, we would need an extremely talented reporter who doesn't apologize every time someone's feelings could potentially get hurt.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 06/21/21 10:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Whine for Rhyne. Obviously.


Eat Mud for Fudd

Suck-Hard for Buek-ers

Stink or sink for Brink

Phone it in for Caitlyn (Clark)


huskiemaniac



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 06/22/21 7:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan wrote:
The league needs expansion NOW. I don't want to watch a team with 3 consecutive number one picks on the roster. The Fever would actually be pretty decent/good in a 16 team league with their current roster.

I want to see a league where players like Sophie Cunningham, Rachel Banham, Shatori Walker-Kimbrough matter as role players because every team isn't loaded with 4 Olympians. There are way way way too many talented players who are either at the end of the bench or out of the league completely.



Water-down the product to make it more appealing?

I don't think the answer is expansion. I don't think there IS an answer.

Women's basketball is a niche sport in the U.S., and, as long as the W remains a part-time, off-season afterthought league, it will remain exactly that.

But, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, necessarily, other than I really wish it were more popular and taken more seriously by fans, media, and owners.


Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 06/22/21 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

huskiemaniac wrote:
mercfan wrote:
The league needs expansion NOW. I don't want to watch a team with 3 consecutive number one picks on the roster. The Fever would actually be pretty decent/good in a 16 team league with their current roster.

I want to see a league where players like Sophie Cunningham, Rachel Banham, Shatori Walker-Kimbrough matter as role players because every team isn't loaded with 4 Olympians. There are way way way too many talented players who are either at the end of the bench or out of the league completely.



Water-down the product to make it more appealing?

To say nothing of the fact that expansion wouldn't even necessarily solve the issue presented in the bolded sentence: The most teams the league ever had was from 2000-2002, and the Seattle Storm still got back-to-back Number One picks, during that span.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 06/22/21 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
huskiemaniac wrote:
mercfan wrote:
The league needs expansion NOW. I don't want to watch a team with 3 consecutive number one picks on the roster. The Fever would actually be pretty decent/good in a 16 team league with their current roster.

I want to see a league where players like Sophie Cunningham, Rachel Banham, Shatori Walker-Kimbrough matter as role players because every team isn't loaded with 4 Olympians. There are way way way too many talented players who are either at the end of the bench or out of the league completely.



Water-down the product to make it more appealing?

To say nothing of the fact that expansion wouldn't even necessarily solve the issue presented in the bolded sentence: The most teams the league ever had was from 2000-2002, and the Seattle Storm still got back-to-back Number One picks, during that span.


Yep. While plenty of other teams in that era were bad, Seattle was handed Lauren Jackson and Sue Bird in consecutive years.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/22/21 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

huskiemaniac wrote:
mercfan wrote:
The league needs expansion NOW. I don't want to watch a team with 3 consecutive number one picks on the roster. The Fever would actually be pretty decent/good in a 16 team league with their current roster.

I want to see a league where players like Sophie Cunningham, Rachel Banham, Shatori Walker-Kimbrough matter as role players because every team isn't loaded with 4 Olympians. There are way way way too many talented players who are either at the end of the bench or out of the league completely.



Water-down the product to make it more appealing?

I don't think the answer is expansion. I don't think there IS an answer.

Women's basketball is a niche sport in the U.S., and, as long as the W remains a part-time, off-season afterthought league, it will remain exactly that.

But, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, necessarily, other than I really wish it were more popular and taken more seriously by fans, media, and owners.


X____________



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 06/22/21 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All of this discussion is perhaps to say, that the League & its media ought to start acting like a normal sports League, embracing the good & bad that comes with it, if it wants to grow into becoming a normal sports League that doesn’t have to siphon buckets of money off of its parent League in order to stay afloat. The lack of franchise value continues to be a giant roadblock to expansion & the overall financials.

Another component to all of this that hasn’t even been touched on here (not that I was planning on taking it this direction, but we’re keeping things movin’ over here!), is that none of these teams have any business playing in arenas with capacities 10k & over. (And to those few teams that typically could get over 10k people in most regular-season home games, like the Mercury & Sparks, how many of those were via giveaways?) Once everything opens back up, we’ll go back to having no good excuse for seeing swaths of empty seats in the stands. It may not be as simple as this, but create value by limiting attendance. Lower arena costs, higher ticket prices ideally. And while we’re at it, more merch than currently available. All the teams’ Heroine jerseys still aren’t for sale (maybe they’ll never be?), and I’m still waiting on the Storm to sell Storm beanies. Evil or Very Mad


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/22/21 10:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
All of this discussion is perhaps to say, that the League & its media ought to start acting like a normal sports League, embracing the good & bad that comes with it, if it wants to grow into becoming a normal sports League that doesn’t have to siphon buckets of money off of its parent League in order to stay afloat. The lack of franchise value continues to be a giant roadblock to expansion & the overall financials.

Basically the same reason I started writing about this league about 15 years ago. No one seemed to be writing about it as a normal sports league, with a willingness to say "X is rubbish" if they couldn't shoot or kept handing the ball to the other team.

You talking about the exact same stuff isn't a great sign that anything is likely to change (although as I said earlier, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be).



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scullyfu



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PostPosted: 06/22/21 11:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

nm



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Last edited by scullyfu on 06/22/21 11:03 am; edited 3 times in total
lethalweapon3



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PostPosted: 06/22/21 11:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Blech for Bueckers!

I lean toward "Not Good Enough" on the Poll Q, but I'm satisfied with why it isn't.

East coast bias, but I was just flipping the channels last night to hear the passing mention of the Arizona Diamondbacks trying to thwart a 17-game losing streak. But all I've heard/seen as a topic on every sports program is whether All-Star Ben Simmons is salvageable in the NBA.

With the Suns doing what they're doing, I'm not even sure PHX sports fans were aware of the hole the D'backs slithered down.

Apples-and-pomegranates, sure, since MLB is MLB. But I think there's something to non-brand-name teams on the StruggleBus in all leagues skirting substantive, critical analyses, especially if the bars for their season outlooks weren't already set excessively high.

There's an appetite for, "Does Coach/GM Derek Fisher have a handle on things in L.A.?" Not so much for, "How much longer will the Fever hang on to Marianne and Tamika in Indy?" In part because of who he is/was, and in part because of where he is and who he's with.

Further, it's too easy to dismissively say, "meh, let's first see what they look like with Allemand back," and move on without having to type up a bunch of theories about why they're not joining in the parity party with the league's many also-rans.

I would like a Simmons-scale (but fair-minded) dive on Lauren Cox, and how much of her early struggles is Cox (injuries/approach on the floor) versus the team's development scheme. On the trade value of The Mitchells, or on whether Teaira McCowan and coach Stanley are working their way toward a happier medium. I accept that none of this is coming, not from someone who gets paid to cover/analyze stuff that draws eyeballs and revenue on the daily.

WNBA specifically, for reasons Randy mentioned, it's tough for analysts to woulda-coulda-shoulda the issues around rebuilding clubs (trades? upcoming free agent/draft classes? available coach replacements?) when there is so much shifting sand, especially in years when overseas/Olympic commitments get in the mix.


~lw3


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