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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/16/21 8:07 pm    ::: Adam Toledo Reply Reply with quote

Trigger happy cop takes life of 13 yr old Adam Toledo.
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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/17/21 4:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’m reminded of the point in the movie on Netflix called Joan Didion: The Center Will Not Hold when her nephew asks her about the time in San Francisco in the 1960s when she encountered a five-year-old who was on LSD and her reply is truly shocking.

“Let me tell you, it was gold. You live for moments like that.”

Because a five-year old on acid is horrible. That’s the first human reaction that should come to anyone’s mind about witnessing such a thing. But she wouldn’t be who or what she is without that reptilian perspective on the horrors that life places in front of her. Everything is simply material to Joan Didion.

A 13-year-old shot dead by a police officer in an alley is decidedly worse than a five-year-old on acid. So stipulated by the jammer. The uncensored video released by the City of Chicago will leave a mark on anyone who watches it. It’s not often we graphically witness what a direct hit from a gunshot to the upper chest does to a person. It reminds me of the much more clear and graphic video of the young woman ‘Nena’ who was shot with a .223 military round during the failed Green uprising in Iran a few years ago.

All the worse in this case watching this and knowing it is a child you are witnessing die in this ghastly manner.

But, as far as I’m concerned, this case is ‘The One.’ It presents so much material for analysis and argument and reflection that someone could use the word tantalizing to describe all that it promises and, TRIGGER WARNING, I’ll be getting my Joan Didion on here in this thread very shortly.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/19/21 5:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So now I've exhausted all my Rebkell superpowers for the time being so this is going to have to wait for another day.

Maybe. I don't have absolute control over myself. I am, after all, a board junkie. Cool



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
mercfan3



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PostPosted: 04/19/21 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

He was a baby.

This country is so fucked up. And I really can’t explain my feelings beyond this tremendous sadness and horrifying feeling, and I can’t imagine those feelings of people of color.

He was a baby. I’ve said before I work with students who have witnessed this when they were babies. Many black and brown children live in child soldier type conditions in this country and THAT is what is the result of it. The murder of babies.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/19/21 7:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I certainly can’t disagree with any of that.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/20/21 3:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So based on what we know so far about this shooting and the circumstances surrounding it, I'm going to take the position of defending this police officer and his actions as a law enforcement hero, and a brave crime fighter working in a city that is a war zone of criminal shootings and murders that so often take the lives of children and teenagers.

There was a report of gunshots. This officer's keen police work on the streets of that area located the shooters and, acting alone, he chased one of them up an alley at night. Brave does not begin to describe his actions. I would characterize them as performing his public service duties in the face of possible impending death.

He could not have known the age of the person he was chasing. When the kid stopped running he was ordered to raise his hands. We're measuring time now in the hundredths of seconds. The kid hesitated. Why? Because he still had a gun in his hands. The body camera perspective which would have also been the officer's line of sight on Toledo showed the gun in the kid's hand. But the officer would not have been looking at a grainy video on his computer. It was happening right there in front of his eyes.

Once the cop saw that gun held down at the kid's side in a position that is an attempt to conceal the weapon, the kid was as good as dead already. And, as I've pointed out, we are talking not about seconds but subdivisions of a second measured in the one-hundredths. Within a second the kid used the arm that held the gun to toss it away at least ten feet. For something that weighs as much as that fairly large gun did, that would have required a sudden, rapid, and very visible arm motion that would have left any cop facing that quick furtive action with a gun in a person's hand very much concerned for his own life and justified in pulling the trigger on his own weapon.

That's it. The video is horrible. The social ills that plague this country are inexcusable but I would add on that point that they similarly abound worldwide in terms of the decay and violence and death that exists in so many cities and cultures the world over. The kid was too young to die like this but that's society's failure and the truth is that it's a MUCH more egregious failure how many INNOCENT children die in Chicago every year as a result of the actions of gun wielding criminals LIKE Adam Toledo and that's why that cop was there chasing a gun wielding suspect up a dark Chicago alley. Adam Toledo made choices that society should not allow to be possible for a kid his age to make in America. Those behavioral options shouldn't exist in a kid's world or on his horizons. But they do and that's that.

This cop's life is probably ruined at this point. He rendered aid immediately and his concern for the kid was heartbreakingly palpable. But we have to quit bullshitting ourselves according to political trends. Even a good cop carrying out his duties to the letter can justifiably shoot and kill a 13-year old and I believe that's exactly what happened here.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17


Last edited by jammerbirdi on 04/20/21 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
mercfan3



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PostPosted: 04/20/21 5:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is no valid reason to shoot a child. None. White mass shooters are taken out alive.

And Jammer, the fact that you would take that stance is why people have been critical of you - because you are thinking..overthinking..rationalizing. When this isn’t a thinking activity, it’s a reality for many people.

The reason this child was killed is because of the dehumanization of black and brown people in this country. Cops, all cops, play a major role in that.



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/20/21 5:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
There is no valid reason to shoot a child. None. White mass shooters are taken out alive.

And Jammer, the fact that you would take that stance is why people have been critical of you - because you are thinking..overthinking..rationalizing. When this isn’t a thinking activity, it’s a reality for many people.

The reason this child was killed is because of the dehumanization of black and brown people in this country. Cops, all cops, play a major role in that.


You act as if the kid had a neon birth certificate attached to his body instead of a gun in his hand. This whole politicized perspective that ignores even my holding society’s failures to account as being not enough in the face of the political winds that blow so frequently here through folks like you demonstrates that people don’t really care about saving the lives of children from streets that have been turned into war zones by murderous criminals.

I DO care. And I can do math. I DO care more about the tens of thousands of murder victims in this country who die at the hands of criminals than I do the relatively minuscule number of mistakes that are made by cops in the spur of life and death moments and I certainly don’t hold the actions of THIS cop doing his job in Chicago to be even a mistake on his part.

I don’t think so many of you really care about victims nearly as much as you do your own performative social justice postures. So there.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
undersized_post



Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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Location: midwest/indiana/iowa


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PostPosted: 04/20/21 5:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
There is no valid reason to shoot a child. None. White mass shooters are taken out alive.

And Jammer, the fact that you would take that stance is why people have been critical of you - because you are thinking..overthinking..rationalizing. When this isn’t a thinking activity, it’s a reality for many people.

The reason this child was killed is because of the dehumanization of black and brown people in this country. Cops, all cops, play a major role in that.


You act as if the kid had a neon birth certificate attached to his body instead of a gun in his hand. This whole politicized perspective that ignores even my holding society’s failures to account as being not enough in the face of the political winds that blow so frequently here through folks like you demonstrates that people don’t really care about saving the lives of children from streets that have been turned into war zones by murderous criminals.

I DO care. And I can do math. I DO care more about the tens of thousands of murder victims in this country who die at the hands of criminals than I do the relatively minuscule number of mistakes that are made by cops in the spur of life and death moments and I certainly don’t hold the actions of THIS cop doing his job in Chicago to be even a mistake on his part.

I don’t think so many of you really care about victims nearly as much as you do your own performative social justice postures. So there.


What is baffling is that you accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being "politicized" while you think you and your superior intellect somehow operate independent of politics. Wrong.


pilight



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PostPosted: 04/20/21 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
You act as if the kid had a neon birth certificate attached to his body instead of a gun in his hand.


At the time he was killed he had neither of those things



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/20/21 5:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
You act as if the kid had a neon birth certificate attached to his body instead of a gun in his hand.


At the time he was killed he had neither of those things


No, he had a gun and you know he did. You can’t split a second up of there being a gun in hand, an arm in action, and a shot fired and say that he didn’t have a gun when he was shot. It’s just BS. If he didn’t have a gun in his hand he wouldn’t have been shot. I don’t know what he was thinking by not tossing the gun over the fence earlier as he was running up the alley but he was a dumb kid and he had the gun in his hand within the second in which he was shot.

Let me ask you a question, pilight? Do you have any bias against the police that you bring to the discussion of this case? Or any other involving the police. We both know that you do. You have a pre-existing bias against the police independent of any particular incident in the news and you’ve expressed that personal animus towards cops here a number of times.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 04/20/21 5:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
You act as if the kid had a neon birth certificate attached to his body instead of a gun in his hand.


At the time he was killed he had neither of those things


No, he had a gun and you know he did. You can’t split a second up of there being a gun in hand, an arm in action, and a shot fired and say that he didn’t have a gun when he was shot. It’s just BS. If he didn’t have a gun in his hand he wouldn’t have been shot. I don’t know what he was thinking by not tossing the gun over the fence earlier as he was running up the alley but he was a dumb kid and he had the gun in his hand within the second in which he was shot.

Let me ask you a question, pilight? Do you have any bias against the police that you bring to the discussion of this case? Or any other involving the police. We both know that you do. You have a pre-existing bias against the police independent of any particular incident in the news and you’ve expressed that personal animus towards cops here a number of times.


I saw the body cam footage. There was no gun in his hand when he was shot.



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The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
undersized_post



Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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PostPosted: 04/20/21 5:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:


Let me ask you a question, pilight? Do you have any bias against the police that you bring to the discussion of this case? Or any other involving the police. We both know that you do. You have a pre-existing bias against the police independent of any particular incident in the news and you’ve expressed that personal animus towards cops here a number of times.


(Once again, you imply everyone who disagrees with you is blinded by bias while your intellect and your intellect alone is more free, more pure, and superior to the rest of ours. smh....)


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/20/21 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:


Let me ask you a question, pilight? Do you have any bias against the police that you bring to the discussion of this case? Or any other involving the police. We both know that you do. You have a pre-existing bias against the police independent of any particular incident in the news and you’ve expressed that personal animus towards cops here a number of times.


(Once again, you imply everyone who disagrees with you is blinded by bias while your intellect and your intellect alone is more free, more pure, and superior to the rest of ours. smh....)



I’ve been posting with this dude for 20 years. You’ve been interjecting yourself in these conversations for ten weeks.

I just write opinions, man. That’s what we’re all here to do. Please get used to it.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/20/21 6:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
You act as if the kid had a neon birth certificate attached to his body instead of a gun in his hand.


At the time he was killed he had neither of those things


No, he had a gun and you know he did. You can’t split a second up of there being a gun in hand, an arm in action, and a shot fired and say that he didn’t have a gun when he was shot. It’s just BS. If he didn’t have a gun in his hand he wouldn’t have been shot. I don’t know what he was thinking by not tossing the gun over the fence earlier as he was running up the alley but he was a dumb kid and he had the gun in his hand within the second in which he was shot.

Let me ask you a question, pilight? Do you have any bias against the police that you bring to the discussion of this case? Or any other involving the police. We both know that you do. You have a pre-existing bias against the police independent of any particular incident in the news and you’ve expressed that personal animus towards cops here a number of times.


I saw the body cam footage. There was no gun in his hand when he was shot.


I said he tossed the thing. I would assume that the motion of his arm doing that was the moment the officer’s brain told him to pull the trigger on his own weapon. Either I’m mistaken or it has been determined to have gone from gun in hand to shot fired in under one second. Is that correct?



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 62939
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 04/20/21 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
You act as if the kid had a neon birth certificate attached to his body instead of a gun in his hand.


At the time he was killed he had neither of those things


No, he had a gun and you know he did. You can’t split a second up of there being a gun in hand, an arm in action, and a shot fired and say that he didn’t have a gun when he was shot. It’s just BS. If he didn’t have a gun in his hand he wouldn’t have been shot. I don’t know what he was thinking by not tossing the gun over the fence earlier as he was running up the alley but he was a dumb kid and he had the gun in his hand within the second in which he was shot.

Let me ask you a question, pilight? Do you have any bias against the police that you bring to the discussion of this case? Or any other involving the police. We both know that you do. You have a pre-existing bias against the police independent of any particular incident in the news and you’ve expressed that personal animus towards cops here a number of times.


I saw the body cam footage. There was no gun in his hand when he was shot.


I said he tossed the thing. I would assume that the motion of his arm doing that was the moment the officer’s brain told him to pull the trigger on his own weapon. Either I’m mistaken or it has been determined to have gone from gun in hand to shot fired in under one second. Is that correct?


I didn't time it, but it was pretty quick



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DivaORcat16



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PostPosted: 04/20/21 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’ve seen still image breakdown. It’s timed to about eight-tenths of a second from when he’s holding the gun to when he’s shot.

Very sad. For EVERYONE involved.

Why didn’t his Mother call him in missing again? I don’t live in a city but it seems like youth don’t have many choices in cities. It’s the thug life. I believe the 21 year-old NON-FAMILY person he was with should be held accountable. It is tragic but I don’t think the cop should face charges of any kind.

And if there is a settlement for his death it should go into a funeral fund for other children, not to the family.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 04/21/21 6:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

DivaORcat16 wrote:
I’ve seen still image breakdown. It’s timed to about eight-tenths of a second from when he’s holding the gun to when he’s shot.

Very sad. For EVERYONE involved.

Why didn’t his Mother call him in missing again? I don’t live in a city but it seems like youth don’t have many choices in cities. It’s the thug life. I believe the 21 year-old NON-FAMILY person he was with should be held accountable. It is tragic but I don’t think the cop should face charges of any kind.

And if there is a settlement for his death it should go into a funeral fund for other children, not to the family.


Speaking of other children. I would like people here to consider this seven year-old Angel of Chicago whose life was snuffed out this past Sunday by the all-too plentiful child murdering criminals that terrorize the streets of her city.

What would ANY OF US have done to protect this child?

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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
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