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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 05/11/21 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Wow, talk about pathetic. Gottlieb will destroy whatever was left of their program.

Why do you perceive her so negatively? She had a pretty decent run at Cal, no?


No.



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PickledGinger



Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: 05/11/21 3:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Howee wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Wow, talk about pathetic. Gottlieb will destroy whatever was left of their program.

Why do you perceive her so negatively? She had a pretty decent run at Cal, no?


No.


Interesting take, considering she won 60% (86-58 ) of her Pac-12 games and went to the NCAA tournament 7 out of 8 years.



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Durantula



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PostPosted: 05/11/21 5:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Howee wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Wow, talk about pathetic. Gottlieb will destroy whatever was left of their program.

Why do you perceive her so negatively? She had a pretty decent run at Cal, no?


No.


She took Cal to the Final 4, how is that no? Joanne Boyle did good too but her last year they went 18-16. Gottlieb comes in and goes 25-10, and then next year final 4, 32-4. With Boyle's recruits but still she was the coach and they improved off Boyle's last season.

I understand Cal is struggling now so that means Gottlieb did not leave a good program to her replacement but a final 4 and almost annual NCAA tournament appearances is good for Cal. Before Joanne Boyle did they ever do this? And after Gottlieb can you honestly say the program is looking up now? Gottlieb is as good as they've ever had at Cal.


LitePal



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 05/11/21 5:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You're forgetting that her first four years was 56/16 or approximately 80% and then her final four years was 30/42 or approximately 40%. The first four with future WNBA players Brittany Boyd (first round) and Reshanda Gray (second round). Nonetheless, after the Final Four during their sophomore year, she never got past the second round again. Because of her record, it's fair to suggest her Final Four appearance was a fluke. Her last four years had future first round pick Kristine Anigwe. Her lack of recruiting was long a subject on these boards (she did not recruit Boyd or Gray) and along with transfers, it forced Cal to play this season with no juniors or seniors. It is no exaggeration to say that the problems inherited forced Cal to essentially start from the bottom, similar to what Langley will have at Washington.

At the same time, leaving for the NBA when she did proved her brilliant business acumen. Sorta like UCLA's Kathy Oliver who somehow always got a job even though she proved herself to be one of the worst head coaches in Div. 1.

USC fans are happy, all Pac fans are happy so all is good. The biggest winner? UCLA.




Last edited by LitePal on 05/11/21 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
pilight



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PostPosted: 05/11/21 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe Gottlieb learned something in the NBA



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 05/11/21 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Since the Cavs are 21-48 this year and 19-46 last year, I'd also be interested to see what she learned in the NBA.


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/11/21 10:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Since the Cavs are 21-48 this year and 19-46 last year, I'd also be interested to see what she learned in the NBA.


They say you learn more from losing than from winning...



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 05/11/21 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Then damn, she should have learned a ton from her last Cal game where Baylor beat then by 40 points.


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/11/21 10:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Then damn, she should have learned a ton from her last Cal game where Baylor beat then by 40 points.


Maybe that was for her what Vic Schaefer's 60 point loss in the 2016 tournament was for him. His teams have played much better and gotten much better results since then.



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 05/11/21 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yes, and as we all know, Gottlieb is totally comparable to Vic. Of course, Vic stuck it out and Lindsay got out of Dodge, so whatever lessons were learned weren't applied.

I'll make this bold prediction. With Dugalic committing to UCLA, USC with Gottlieb will not beat UCLA for at least three years.


CamrnCrz1974



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 05/12/21 8:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Yes, and as we all know, Gottlieb is totally comparable to Vic. Of course, Vic stuck it out and Lindsay got out of Dodge, so whatever lessons were learned weren't applied.


Please do not mention "lessons learned", as us Duke fans have Joanne P. McCallie nightmares (after every loss, including the annual humiliating beatdown by UConn, McCallie's postgame statement to the media always referenced "lessons learned").


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 05/12/21 8:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Yes, and as we all know, Gottlieb is totally comparable to Vic. Of course, Vic stuck it out and Lindsay got out of Dodge, so whatever lessons were learned weren't applied.


Please do not mention "lessons learned", as us Duke fans have Joanne P. McCallie nightmares (after every loss, including the annual humiliating beatdown by UConn, McCallie's postgame statement to the media always referenced "lessons learned").


Truth. Hey....USC coulda landed a REAL winner like, I dunno -- Joanne P.M., Kathy Olivier, Rene Portland, Cynthia C., et. al. Shocked

Like any program that has floundered since its glory dayz have passed, let's just stay optimistic and hope for the best.



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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 05/12/21 8:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Yes, and as we all know, Gottlieb is totally comparable to Vic. Of course, Vic stuck it out and Lindsay got out of Dodge, so whatever lessons were learned weren't applied.


Please do not mention "lessons learned", as us Duke fans have Joanne P. McCallie nightmares (after every loss, including the annual humiliating beatdown by UConn, McCallie's postgame statement to the media always referenced "lessons learned").


Truth. Hey....USC coulda landed a REAL winner like, I dunno -- Joanne P.M., Kathy Olivier, Rene Portland, Cynthia C., et. al. Shocked

Like any program that has floundered since its glory dayz have passed, let's just stay optimistic and hope for the best.


Um, isn't Rene dead?



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 05/12/21 8:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Howee wrote:
CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Yes, and as we all know, Gottlieb is totally comparable to Vic. Of course, Vic stuck it out and Lindsay got out of Dodge, so whatever lessons were learned weren't applied.


Please do not mention "lessons learned", as us Duke fans have Joanne P. McCallie nightmares (after every loss, including the annual humiliating beatdown by UConn, McCallie's postgame statement to the media always referenced "lessons learned").


Truth. Hey....USC coulda landed a REAL winner like, I dunno -- Joanne P.M., Kathy Olivier, Rene Portland, Cynthia C., et. al. Shocked

Like any program that has floundered since its glory dayz have passed, let's just stay optimistic and hope for the best.


Um, isn't Rene dead?


Oh, yaa....*never mind!* Razz



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 05/12/21 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lindsay Gottlieb has always been nice to me -- then again I was on the staff of a player she was trying to recruit -- and she seems like a good person.

But when she left Cal, she left behind a barren roster that had to be completely rebuilt. As mentioned, in her last four years she was 30-42 in Pac-12 despite having Anigwe, who was one of the top players in the league. She never could recruit shooters, fanned on Ionescu who was playing 10 miles from Berkeley, and never took advantage of that Final Four run.

Of course, Cal has crummy facilities and there were other issues, but still ...

Finally, since recruiting was her main problem, it seems unlikely that any time in the NBA would help her in that regard, but you never know. As I said, she seems like a good person and I wish her well, but on the surface, it appears to be a hire made by an AD who doesn't care that much about women's basketball.



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thefutureisbright



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PostPosted: 05/12/21 10:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

*Delete* Wrong Thread


LitePal



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 05/12/21 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are suggestions that the new USC AD, Mike Bohn has been packing the staff and administrations with UCincinnati workers, as that's where he's from. Granted Cleveland isn't Cincinnati but it's hard to understand why he kept pursuing Gottlieb. Ironically, the best Cincinnati employee was the one that went to UCLA.

And Clay can also tell you that Cal gained a somewhat infamous reputation for recruiting athletes and the final team composition. I don't know if that will be the case at USC but it definitely hurt them.


StevenHW



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PostPosted: 05/13/21 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
LitePal wrote:
Since the Cavs are 21-48 this year and 19-46 last year, I'd also be interested to see what she learned in the NBA.


They say you learn more from losing than from winning...


As the Charlie Brown character said in the comic strip Peanuts: "That would make me the smartest person in the world!" Wink



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LitePal



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Talk is Gottlieb will earn more than 1 million a year, three times what Trakh made and almost twice what Close makes.


Durantula



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 10:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
Talk is Gottlieb will earn more than 1 million a year, three times what Trakh made and almost twice what Close makes.


For that money they could have hired a better coach.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 3:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

After negotiations with UCLA's Perry LeBeauf broke down, the AD Bohn went after Gottlieb again after she rebuffed the offer the first time. USC again had problems getting coaches to look at the position because of the poor salary as well as perceived administrative indifference. Bohn wanted her so badly that he essentially wrote her a blank check.

USC will remain a sleeping giant.


Durantula



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 5:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
After negotiations with UCLA's Perry LeBeauf broke down, the AD Bohn went after Gottlieb again after she rebuffed the offer the first time. USC again had problems getting coaches to look at the position because of the poor salary as well as perceived administrative indifference. Bohn wanted her so badly that he essentially wrote her a blank check.

USC will remain a sleeping giant.


Was Perry over playing her hand? She has never been a head coach before, she should have just accepted the USC job because surely it would have paid a lot more than her UCLA job. Lets see if she gets a comparable job anytime soon.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 9:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It was obviously her agent who was hard selling and USC said no. It was "leaked" that she was the front runner until negotiations fell through so USC obviously wanted her. For someone who was an associate head coach to being a head coach in P5 is a big jump and I agree, an outstanding opportunity.

Mark Campbell is, I believe, more highly regarded than Shannon, and the best he could do was Sacramento State.


patsweetpat



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PostPosted: 05/20/21 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LitePal wrote:
It was obviously her agent who was hard selling and USC said no. It was "leaked" that she was the front runner until negotiations fell through so USC obviously wanted her. For someone who was an associate head coach to being a head coach in P5 is a big jump and I agree, an outstanding opportunity.

Mark Campbell is, I believe, more highly regarded than Shannon, and the best he could do was Sacramento State.


I have no inside knowledge and am just pulling this directly out of my butt, but I kind of imagine that Shannon has a great shot at getting the UCLA gig whenever Coach Close moves on. If Shannon has a similar sense, I can imagine it taking quite a bit to lure her away from Westwood.


LitePal



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PostPosted: 05/20/21 6:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="patsweetpat"][quote="LitePal"]It was obviously her agent who was hard selling and USC said no. It was "leaked" that she was the front runner until negotiations fell through so USC obviously wanted her. For someone who was an associate head coach to being a head coach in P5 is a big jump and I agree, an outstanding opportunity.

Mark Campbell is, I believe, more highly regarded than Shannon, and the best he could do was Sacramento State.[/quote]

I have no inside knowledge and am just pulling this directly out of my butt, but I kind of imagine that Shannon has a great shot at getting the UCLA gig whenever Coach Close moves on. If Shannon has a similar sense, I can imagine it taking quite a bit to lure her away from Westwood.[/quote]

Cori Close is not even 50 and her mentor Sue Semrau is still going strong at 60. Tara is 67. It might be a super long wait. I'd add that Shannon also was briefly an assistant coach at USC so she does have something of a history there. If she was really negotiating with the school, I'd assume she wanted the job, which she should have, IMO. I also don't know if schools are so big on promoting the assistant coaches. USC didn't when Trakh "retired" and UCLA didn't when Caldwell Fargas left. I do know that Tasha Butts was very well liked by the administration and is known as a hard working and excellent coach.

It doesn't always work out well, like Summitt being succeeded by Warlick but it can work out great, like Enquist being succeeded by Inouye Perez.


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