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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 893
Location: NY


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PostPosted: 05/16/21 4:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm just so in love with Didi's energy and defense when gets in the floor, we don't need her to score, I'm fine with that. As long as I see that spark every game from her. We need her to shut down guards every night

Sabrina had an off game, but it was expected. She's basically still rookie in my eyes, she will learn from this game today

If we can get a lil bit more scoring punch off the bench, I think Allen and Jones can provide that but I still feel like we need one more threat


NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 05/16/21 4:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Interesting thing about how the Liberty have undergone their philosophy. Usually a so-called small ball framework is more about causing offensive mismatches. And to their credit, Onyenwere is indeed an offensive matchup advantage at the 4 spot.

However, what’s interesting is how this is clearly more of a defensive framework. And even though this isn’t a team built on height, it is a team with excellent physical strength at multiple positions, particularly the wing positions.

Laney defended Breland on a handful of possessions Friday night and didn’t look out of place. Onyenwere is very strong for her height as well. The Liberty pushed Indiana around today. So much so that McCowan’s frustration boiled over into two technicals.

Granted Gray probably won’t be with the team much longer but Howard battles in the post as well.

The other thing is the help defense and closing out. The Liberty are built to have a three point shooting advantage. They close out defensively really suddenly and the help defense is quick and active.

Interestingly, I had thought Whitcomb would be better served as instant offense off the bench. And while her streakiness is still apparent, a few other things are as well. First, she’s a really good fit in terms of offensive spacing and a quick shot release. Since Bet and Sab will be doing most of the ball-handling, her ability to catch and shoot with sudden starts and stops really fits an early-game framework. But the other thing is that instead of an “instant offense” type of situation being the main focus, we essentially have since “instant defense” lineups. And they’re doing it without a top defensive player in Howard and an above average defensive player in Stokes.

Yeah, it’s two games. And yeah it’s Indiana. But the Libs are playing without Howard, Durr, Stokes and Johannes. It was typical high-turnover early season offense. But if they’re looking strong defensively without Kiah and Howard, how will they look when they return?

I’d guess pretty darn good. And if this framework works out for them, it speaks highly of the execution of their philosophy. You can tell how well the opposition has been scouted too. They do their best to take each player out of her comfort zone.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/16/21 5:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
If we can get a lil bit more scoring punch off the bench, I think Allen and Jones can provide that but I still feel like we need one more threat


I think it's way too early to talk about "the bench." Hopkins will need time to see who his starters will be. And he may use different starting lineups depending on matchups. In my view, the only definite starters are Laney, Howard, and Ionescu. Stokes could start and Onyenwere could come off the bench--or vice versa. Jones could start and Whitcomb could come off the bench--or vice versa.

Moreover, as I've posted many times, for me the crucial questions aren't who starts and who comes off the bench but how many minutes each player is on the court and especially who's on the court in the last five minutes of a close game. We'll see about that over time. Hopkins will have plenty of options. This team could be deep in talent.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 05/16/21 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bottom line no matter who starts the team is quite deep, once fully intact and if it stays healthy. Versatile in terms of matchups too.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/16/21 9:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've got a problem watching certain Liberty games on television. I live in Manhattan and have Spectrum as my TV and Internet provider. Tuesday's Minnesota game is at 7:00 p.m. and the YES network has the TV rights. But YES is showing the 8:00 Yankees' game and won't run the Liberty game till midnight.

League Pass says they won't show the game in New York at 7:00 because of blackout rules. I'm unable to download the YES app on either my computer or smartphone; not sure why. I'm waiting to hear from League Pass whether they will broadcast the game after it's over (perhaps 9:30 p.m.) or not until midnight.

This problem will continue for me whenever YES has rights to Liberty games and there are conflicts with their Yankees' broadcasts. I'd like to watch these games when they are actually happening but fear there's no way I can. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks in advance.



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ChiSky54



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
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PostPosted: 05/16/21 10:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

YouTubeTV works for me. Has the networks, ESPN, CBS Sports Network, NBA TV. $64.99/mo, no equipment, no contracts, unlimited DVR.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/16/21 10:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChiSky54 wrote:
YouTubeTV works for me. Has the networks, ESPN, CBS Sports Network, NBA TV. $64.99/mo, no equipment, no contracts, unlimited DVR.


Thanks for this response, but I don't believe this will solve my problem. The YES network has the rights to Tuesday's game (and others) and won't show the game until midnight in New York. I'm pretty sure that no other network will broadcast that game since YES has the rights. I'll have no problem seeing Liberty games for which ESPN or CBS Sports Network have the rights.



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Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 05/17/21 7:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What kind of issue is the app giving you? As far as I know, that is the only way we can watch Liberty games live if the stupid Yankees are live at the same time.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/17/21 7:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
What kind of issue is the app giving you? As far as I know, that is the only way we can watch Liberty games live if the stupid Yankees are live at the same time.


I simply can't download the app either on my computer or on my phone. I get that message, no explanation.



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jmvcity



Joined: 21 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: 05/17/21 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Once Stokes and Howard return, which current two players will be waived? I'm guessing one is Gray, but who's the other?


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 05/17/21 8:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I put this in the ROY thread

how I would like things to play out for now

200 minutes

30 Ionescu
30 Howard
30 Laney

20 Onyenwere
20 Whitcomb
20 Stokes
20 Jones

15 Allen
15 Richards

Obviously with a little increase/dexrease here and there based on in game performance
figure out what to do with Clarendon's minutes as the season goes on but something seems off ATM
Allen if she starts stepping up can pick up someone else's minutes as the season continues

This leaves Odom as the other cut with Gray

Could be Willoughby but I could also see the team wanting to keep Willoughby on the roster as a show of support and it keeps them close to the hardship threshold and they can use Odom's money to bring in hardship replacements based on need with Odom and Gray at the top of the list.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 05/17/21 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I put this in the ROY thread

how I would like things to play out for now

200 minutes

30 Ionescu
30 Howard
30 Laney

20 Onyenwere
20 Whitcomb
20 Stokes
20 Jones

15 Allen
15 Richards

Obviously with a little increase/dexrease here and there based on in game performance
figure out what to do with Clarendon's minutes as the season goes on but something seems off ATM
Allen if she starts stepping up can pick up someone else's minutes as the season continues



Thank you, J-Spoon. I'm thanking you on both threads! This is the first time I've ever seen anyone on this board offer projected/recommended minutes for any team. If others have done it, it certainly hasn't been often. And, as a Liberty fan, I view your breakdown of minutes as quite reasonable.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 05/17/21 8:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
I put this in the ROY thread

how I would like things to play out for now

200 minutes

30 Ionescu
30 Howard
30 Laney

20 Onyenwere
20 Whitcomb
20 Stokes
20 Jones

15 Allen
15 Richards

Obviously with a little increase/dexrease here and there based on in game performance
figure out what to do with Clarendon's minutes as the season goes on but something seems off ATM
Allen if she starts stepping up can pick up someone else's minutes as the season continues



Thank you, J-Spoon. I'm thanking you on both threads! This is the first time I've ever seen anyone on this board offer projected/recommended minutes for any team. If others have done it, it certainly hasn't been often. And, as a Liberty fan, I view your breakdown of minutes as quite reasonable.


Thanks for the nice comment

It was just my answer to the starter non-starter talk and how much Onyenwere's minutes would be affected by the late arrivals

This is sort of nice way to show what kind of role each player will have without getting to caught up in starters etc.

It is even more flexible in NY because we have three clear core players in Ionescu, Laney and Howard and a bunch of other players who will compliment them in different ways. As has been pointed out in our first game we saw Richards and Jones on the floor in the last 3 minutes for crucial defensive stops, and Whitcomb in on the offensive end to add a shooter. NY has a lot of options and a coaching staff willing to try things.

It will be interesting to see what happens when we play a team like PX or Chicago who has a lot more experience than Indy. Will the freshman an sophomores get the same amount of opportunity? I hope so.

Shoot I also just realized I forgot Shook
I think I am ok with that for now I am sure there are 10-15 minutes to be picked up from someone somewhere


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 05/18/21 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

New York activates Kiah Stokes, releases Reshanda Gray.



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
New York activates Kiah Stokes, releases Reshanda Gray.


I'm delighted that Stokes is back on the active roster. Sorry to see Reshanda Gray released; I hope she can find another WNBA job soon. She always seemed to give her all while on the court for the Liberty.

Perhaps I've got something wrong, but this is how it now looks to me. Once Howard is activated, which presumably will be soon, the Liberty appear to be facing four choices:

1. Release Odom.
2. Release Shook.
3. Release Clarendon.
4. Suspend Willoughby and run the risk of losing her.

(If I've got this wrong, I encourage anyone to correct me.)

With Gray gone, I'd say that Shook can't be released. The team now has only three post players.

Two games is a ridiculously low sample, but I can see the Liberty emerging this way if Willoughby is suspended. Nine-player rotation: Laney, Howard, Ionescu, Whitcomb, Stokes, Onyenwere, Jones, Richards, and Allen. Three players mostly sitting: Odom, Shook, and Clarendon.

I'm very curious to see what's ahead, both in terms of the roster decision and in how Walt Hopkins will use his roster when everyone is available.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 05/18/21 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
New York activates Kiah Stokes, releases Reshanda Gray.


I'm delighted that Stokes is back on the active roster. Sorry to see Reshanda Gray released; I hope she can find another WNBA job soon. She always seemed to give her all while on the court for the Liberty.

Perhaps I've got something wrong, but this is how it now looks to me. Once Howard is activated, which presumably will be soon, the Liberty appear to be facing four choices:

1. Release Odom.
2. Release Shook.
3. Release Clarendon.
4. Suspend Willoughby and run the risk of losing her.

(If I've got this wrong, I encourage anyone to correct me.)

With Gray gone, I'd say that Shook can't be released. The team now has only three post players.

Two games is a ridiculously low sample, but I can see the Liberty emerging this way if Willoughby is suspended. Nine-player rotation: Laney, Howard, Ionescu, Whitcomb, Stokes, Onyenwere, Jones, Richards, and Allen. Three players mostly sitting: Odom, Shook, and Clarendon.

I'm very curious to see what's ahead, both in terms of the roster decision and in how Walt Hopkins will use his roster when everyone is available.



It's gonna be interesting who they let go, a gun to my head I would say Shook but I like her game, she looked good at times on the pick&roll with Sabrina and Laney


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 05/18/21 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Assuming Odom is not seriously injured and can return some time during the year -- hopefully soon -- then Willoughby is the logical player to drop. I'm a Jocelyn fan, but she's not so much better (in terms of potential) than the other choices that you'd keep an injured player over someone who is healthy and useable. Plus Willoughby grew up in NJ as a Liberty fan. When she's healthy, most likely JW will want to re-sign with New York.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Drawback to cutting Willoughby is it would kill any flexibility for the rest of the season, if they were hoping to retain any for whatever reason. Releasing Shook or Richards (or Odom, assuming she's almost healthy), would actually create cap room (and save literal cash).

It is an interesting choice, though. Not nearly as obvious as it usually is in these situations.



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Drawback to cutting Willoughby is it would kill any flexibility for the rest of the season, if they were hoping to retain any for whatever reason. Releasing Shook or Richards (or Odom, assuming she's almost healthy), would actually create cap room (and save literal cash).

It is an interesting choice, though. Not nearly as obvious as it usually is in these situations.


I will bet anything that Richards will not be released. Given what's happened in the first two games, I don't view Clarendon as 100% safe, though I'd hate to see her released.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I don't view Clarendon as 100% safe, though I'd hate to see her released.


Clarendon's contract is guaranteed. The team would still have to pay her and that salary stays on the cap. They'd be choosing an injured player over a healthy one while gaining nothing financially.

Richyyy wrote:
Drawback to cutting Willoughby is it would kill any flexibility for the rest of the season if they were hoping to retain any for whatever reason. Releasing Shook or Richards (or Odom, assuming she's almost healthy), would actually create cap room (and save literal cash).

It is an interesting choice, though. Not nearly as obvious as it usually is in these situations.


I agree with Bob that Richards is too well-liked by management to get cut for an injured Willoughby. Also, NY only has three post players. I think Shook or another post has to be on the roster. I suppose they could cut Odom if she is healthy. However, people need to remember that Odom spent most of last season as a starter and was considered NY's best perimeter defender. Essentially, she was last year's Didi. So again, I don't see why they choose Willoughby over the other three. Yes, NY could create some cap flexibility, but they'd be dropping a player they like in hopes of later finding something to do with that cap room. Since all 12 roster spots are taken, they have to drop yet another player to use this money. Unless management has some inside information that a good player is disgruntled and may become available, that extra cap space might never get used. Personally, I don't like the trade-off.



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Totally fair on the trade-off. Although given how they played against Indiana I'm not sure I'd view Shook as quite as secure as you do. If they think Onyenwere's a 4 (and they basically had Allen/Richards/Laney out there as 2/3/4 guarding whoever they were closest to) then they might be happy enough with Howard and Stokes as the only true posts. And I'd expect Shook to be available (or Gray, if they prefer) to sign temporarily while Stokes is at EuroBasket, assuming she's still going.

root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I don't view Clarendon as 100% safe, though I'd hate to see her released.


Clarendon's contract is guaranteed. The team would still have to pay her and that salary stays on the cap. They'd be choosing an injured player over a healthy one while gaining nothing financially.

The gain there would be only if they really like Willoughby and value those two years left on her rookie-scale deal. Clarendon's going to be a UFA at the end of this season either way.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I just don't see how they could cut Shook (not a favorite of mine) and be left with only Howard and Stokes as post players. What if one of them sustains a serious injury?



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 3:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I just don't see how they could cut Shook (not a favorite of mine) and be left with only Howard and Stokes as post players. What if one of them sustains a serious injury?


Injury + foul trouble = Onyenwere or Bec Allen playing center Smile

There was a game last year when two post players (I think Zahui and Shook) were nicked up and a third (Stokes?) got into foul trouble. So yes, it's a realistic scenario. As I noted previously, even if you don't like Shook, some other post player would probably fill that roster spot. 3rd post is not the position where they can sacrifice for any significant stretch of time.



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I just don't see how they could cut Shook (not a favorite of mine) and be left with only Howard and Stokes as post players. What if one of them sustains a serious injury?

Another serious injury would immediately make them eligible to use a hardship for a replacement again, for what that's worth. I do tend to agree that you want an extra backup post, but I also don't think they'd have kept Willoughby to this point if the plan was to cut her. Things could've changed in the meantime, of course - maybe Richards has been better than anticipated, for example - but I doubt that was the original plan.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 05/18/21 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They could str8 up cut Shook and sign Gray back at any time couldn't they? Shook plays hard and put in good effort but is really really not a five. I thought Gray saved the day in the last games. That and the fact they were playing Indy, who totally blew their chance to win a game by having no idea how to use McCowan.


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