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New York Liberty 2021
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root_thing



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I brought up Hines-Allen because she's what an undersized, small-ball PF should look like on the high end. As noted, there's no way Washington can afford to bring back all three of Charles, Meesseman, and Hines-Allen. In fact, it looks to me like they only have enough cap space for one -- unless people sign for huge discounts. Don't know who they'll decide to keep, but the other two are fair game.

As for Dolson, she would fit the Liberty's offense but I don't see her as being mobile enough for Hopkins's defensive system. Also, NY could have made a run at Stefanie in February 2020. As far as I know, they didn't seem interested. I suppose if the Liberty could get Dolson for a cheap price, she might be a viable Plan B or Plan C option.



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I brought up Hines-Allen because she's what an undersized, small-ball PF should look like on the high end. As noted, there's no way Washington can afford to bring back all three of Charles, Meesseman, and Hines-Allen. In fact, it looks to me like they only have enough cap space for one -- unless people sign for huge discounts. Don't know who they'll decide to keep, but the other two are fair game.

All of that is part of why I threw Hines-Allen out as a hypothetical option when everyone was discussing Chennedy Carter trades. Unless something big happens like Charles and/or Delle Donne retiring, the Mystics are going to struggle to keep her.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shook is more mobile than Dolson too. Both agility-wise and straight line speed. The way they play in terms of preventing and guarding 3s, that really matters.

I’m not saying Shook is a sprinter either. But there’s a measurable difference in mobility between she and Dolson.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 3:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I brought up Hines-Allen because she's what an undersized, small-ball PF should look like on the high end. As noted, there's no way Washington can afford to bring back all three of Charles, Meesseman, and Hines-Allen. In fact, it looks to me like they only have enough cap space for one -- unless people sign for huge discounts. Don't know who they'll decide to keep, but the other two are fair game.

As for Dolson, she would fit the Liberty's offense but I don't see her as being mobile enough for Hopkins's defensive system. Also, NY could have made a run at Stefanie in February 2020. As far as I know, they didn't seem interested. I suppose if the Liberty could get Dolson for a cheap price, she might be a viable Plan B or Plan C option.


This. Mobility-wise Dolson isn’t a good fit.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 3:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Sigh. Hopkins has explained it in his postgame pressers several times. . . .

I’m going to paraphrase exactly what Hopkins has said . . . .

Hopkins first mentioned . . . .

On June 24th he said . . . .


Hopkins, Hopkins, Hopkins.

I've never found what coaches say in press conferences to be particularly edifying, much less something to be entranced by, and I've watched and sat through a lot of them. Most of what all coaches say in pressers is repetitive pablum, cliches, self-serving justifications, obfuscation, hype, or just plain nothingburgerness if not BS. In the case of injuries, there is almost always evasion and equivocation. I'm especially skeptical about Hopkins because he's inexperienced, unproven, tries to run an offense that doesn't make a lot of basketball sense to me, and may fear he's on borrowed time.


NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I’ve said just about all this already in this thread. Root has too. Bob has concurred. Not sure why we have to keep repeating it.


You don't have to repeat anything. Folks can read. But to answer your question, there may be more than a three people "we" in the world who want to discuss the Liberty or Ionescu on this forum, and those folks might have different viewpoints, interpretations or opinions than the three people "we".
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
You don't have to repeat anything. Folks can read. But to answer your question, there may be more than a three people "we" in the world who want to discuss the Liberty or Ionescu on this forum, and those folks might have different viewpoints, interpretations or opinions than the three people "we".


ALL of us who come to this thread want to discuss the New York Liberty. Obviously.

As for the same discussion about Ionescu's two-point field-goal percentage and her injury status... OK, Glenn, go for it. Post 100 more times on this subject. Consecutively.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 4:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've been on this board for 14 years. I learned long ago that people here hardly ever change their minds. Consequently, I usually limit myself to 3 posts on one topic -- 4 at the most. Make your point, elaborate with another post if necessary, vent a bit if you must, then get out. Beyond that, it's pretty pointless. There are people who think getting in the last word means they won the argument. Not really -- especially if you had to go on ad nauseum to do it.



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 5:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I've been on this board for 14 years. I learned long ago that people here hardly ever change their minds. Consequently, I usually limit myself to 3 posts on one topic -- 4 at the most. Make your point, elaborate with another post if necessary, vent a bit if you must, then get out. Beyond that, it's pretty pointless. There are people who think getting in the last word means they won the argument. Not really -- especially if you had to go on ad nauseum to do it.


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pilight



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 5:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I've been on this board for 14 years. I learned long ago that people here hardly ever change their minds. Consequently, I usually limit myself to 3 posts on one topic -- 4 at the most. Make your point, elaborate with another post if necessary, vent a bit if you must, then get out. Beyond that, it's pretty pointless. There are people who think getting in the last word means they won the argument. Not really -- especially if you had to go on ad nauseum to do it.


People usually don't post unless they've made up their minds. There may be any number of lurkers and uncertain people reading who can be persuaded.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 8:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was in White Plains earlier this evening. It didn’t exactly bring back warm and fuzzy County Center memories. Glad the team and organization as a whole are well past that.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 9:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My ideal 2022 lineup:

Ionescu/Johannes
Whitcomb/Jones/Durr or DiDi
Laney/Onyenwere
Hines-Allen/Willoughby (if healthy) or Odom or Bec
Howard/Shook/First round pick

A very ideal lineup would be Durr returning to health and starting. Right now I just hope Durr returns to health for health’s sake. Beyond that, if she can play and maybe return to form that’s an extra.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Out of interest I ran the numbers on that roster. I took Willoughby and Durr from your optional choices, and gave you the salary of a #5-#8 first round pick. Would leave over $317,000 to re-sign Johannes (she'll be out of contract, but with NY holding her exclusive rights) and chase someone like Hines-Allen. That ought to be plenty.

The number would drop if they wanted to bring back Allen, considering she's a vet who they felt was worth over 100k this year.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Out of interest I ran the numbers on that roster. I took Willoughby and Durr from your optional choices, and gave you the salary of a #5-#8 first round pick. Would leave over $317,000 to re-sign Johannes (she'll be out of contract, but with NY holding her exclusive rights) and chase someone like Hines-Allen. That ought to be plenty.

The number would drop if they wanted to bring back Allen, considering she's a vet who they felt was worth over 100k this year.


In my view, even if Allen was/is worth that salary this year, she shouldn't be necessary at that salary on the 2022 team. Allen definitely has value, but if all or most of WNBA_NYL_com's projected roster is on the team the Liberty will have plenty of talent without Allen.

Thanks for running the numbers for all of us. Quite interesting to see what you came up with.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
A very ideal lineup would be Durr returning to health and starting. Right now I just hope Durr returns to health for health’s sake. Beyond that, if she can play and maybe return to form that’s an extra.


I wish we had an update on Asia Durr--and not at all with our 2022 roster in mind. But obviously her health situation should remain private unless she wants to make a public statement. Like you, "I just hope Durr returns to health for health's sake." That's what's crucial. Anything more would be a lovely extra, but I so hope she is improving and can get back to full health for many decades ahead.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Out of interest I ran the numbers on that roster. I took Willoughby and Durr from your optional choices, and gave you the salary of a #5-#8 first round pick. Would leave over $317,000 to re-sign Johannes (she'll be out of contract, but with NY holding her exclusive rights) and chase someone like Hines-Allen. That ought to be plenty.

The number would drop if they wanted to bring back Allen, considering she's a vet who they felt was worth over 100k this year.


Appreciate this info. I also agree w Bob that I’d rather not re-sign Allen at 100K+.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 10:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
A very ideal lineup would be Durr returning to health and starting. Right now I just hope Durr returns to health for health’s sake. Beyond that, if she can play and maybe return to form that’s an extra.


I wish we had an update on Asia Durr--and not at all with our 2022 roster in mind. But obviously her health situation should remain private unless she wants to make a public statement. Like you, "I just hope Durr returns to health for health's sake." That's what's crucial. Anything more would be a lovely extra, but I so hope she is improving and can get back to full health for many decades ahead.


I remember reading/seeing somewhere awhile back that Asia Durr is on the shy side. Without knowing anything more, it’s possible that’s why there’s not much additional info, as shy ppl are typically private. I occasionally check her Twitter and I’ve never seen her mention her situation since the Real Sports feature.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 10:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just to add about my proposed lineup. The mock drafts are loaded with post players. Adding one would make it that much more possible to mix in occasionally “conventional” lineups where they might see fit. Now, even with Howard on the current roster if she was healthy, it’s hard to do that because the only conventional posts are Howard and Shook. So if you were to do it you’d be limited in the amount of time you can do it because eventually you gotta rest one or both. Not including Gray in that element, bc as much as I like Gray’s effort and heart, she’s limited in height, length and athleticism. If they don’t let her bang excessively in the post there’s not much of a plan B.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/16/21 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I remember reading/seeing somewhere awhile back that Asia Durr is on the shy side. Without knowing anything more, it’s possible that’s why there’s not much additional info, as shy ppl are typically private. I occasionally check her Twitter and I’ve never seen her mention her situation since the Real Sports feature.


And certainly a person who's "on the shy side" and perhaps private under the best of circumstances isn't likely to give the world lots of reports on her serious struggle with long-term Covid.

If Asia Durr or anyone who knows her happens to read this, please know that obviously two of us and, no doubt, many to all of us are sending our hopes and good wishes.



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PostPosted: 07/17/21 3:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:

I acknowledge that I've been part of the problem



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/17/21 3:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One question I have had since seeing Ionescu get a Taurasi/Parker/Moore/Stewart level hype (and least from some) is - can she match their WNBA performance level despite not enjoying the size and/or athleticism advantage those players have? That takes a lot of skill.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/17/21 8:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
One question I have had since seeing Ionescu get a Taurasi/Parker/Moore/Stewart level hype (and least from some) is - can she match their WNBA performance level despite not enjoying the size and/or athleticism advantage those players have? That takes a lot of skill.


IMO when healthy her numbers speak for themselves. She’s more athletic than ppl realize. I don’t want to argue about whether she is healthy or not. I’ve already posted the numbers.

All I can tell you is any basketball player’s stardom relates directly to beating primary defenders and breaking down defenses. Sabrina does that successfully when she’s 100%. And IMO that will continue to be the case.

In 2019 while injured in 6 games DT shot .103 from the field. The next year she played like an MVP candidate. So again, while not wanting to repeat the same stuff, do I think Sabrina’s game will be fine moving forward? Absolutely 100% without a doubt. Her vision and passing skill is a generational talent. I think it may even top Slooty and Bird. It’s at minimum equal.

That’s the last thing I’m gonna say on the subject.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/18/21 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Was listening to ESPN radio the other day and they were talking about Tom Brady playing on an MCL sprain/tear the whole year. He wasn’t even on the injury report.

Some former players intimated that depending on the grade of tear that it might not be as difficult to play on it as observers might think.

Which also makes me think that Howard’s tear had to have been either grade 3 or close to grade 3. Which I believe is either a full tear or close to a full tear. MCLs usually heal without surgery but the healing time frame depends on the grade.

Which makes me think that a return even after the Olympics, while likely, is not absolutely assured. Hopkins could not provide a time frame on her return as recently as a week ago.

Obviously I’m on record as believing that with Howard (partially due to less than ideal depth construction) they’re a much better team. It would be nice to see it in action and to get a legit sample of what the differences are when she’s on the floor. The numbers suggest that NY is affected even more offensively than defensively without her. I do still firmly believe that with Howard the Libs will become a strong defensive team statistically.

Also, the Libs have a five game homestead after an initial away game. It would be nice to see it unfold in person. Especially with four of those games being against Seattle and Phoenix.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/18/21 12:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Which makes me think that a return even after the Olympics, while likely, is not absolutely assured. Hopkins could not provide a time frame on her return as recently as a week ago.


Sadly, everything you've written in your post makes sense.

Seems like three weeks ago when I read here with excitement that Howard was back in practice. I naively thought/hoped that meant she'd soon be back on the court. Obviously quite wrong.

Would it be better for the Liberty to have Howard on the court for the final 11 regular-season games and (hopefully) the playoffs? Of course. It could be huge if she's healthy. But my priority (not that it matters; I don't have a vote) is for 2022 rather than August and September. It would be disastrous if Howard comes back too soon and gets that tear all over again. I don't view New York as a serious contender for a championship this year, with or without Howard. But for 2022 they could be.

Given Hopkins not providing a timetable, I have to assume that the Liberty coaches and training staff are being VERY cautious. If so, I agree.



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Lib Fan



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PostPosted: 07/18/21 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seems to me Australia was playing the bball that Walt
wants the Liberty to play , when they defeated The USA team.
Winning with not a dom center and hitting 3's and playing defense.



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PostPosted: 07/21/21 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Anyone else get their 2022 season renewal email? Funny how they say to renew asap to secure the 2020 prices.


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