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MsTena-T
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 2178
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 Posted: 05/01/06 6:46 pm ::: My Immigrant Rant |
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I have really been trying to let this one pass BUT I am about to go on vacation so I figured I better let it out . . .
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
1. I am not understanding how you come into somebody else's house illegally and demand that you now be made legal without going tthrough the proper channels.
2. I have a BIG BIG problem when I hear them compare their plight to to Martin L. King and the civil rights movement.
3. When I hear them say "We do the jobs that the Blacks won't do" I am not sure if that is a back-handed compliment or a straight in your face dis.
I think if illegal immigrants are granted amnesty that All American born citizens who do not have a felony should be allowed 1 illegal act (no guns) . Me I'd be at the bank make a large withdrawal.
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RubberTroll
Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 344
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| Posted: 05/01/06 8:46 pm ::: |
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| Yeah, that Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, we really snuck one by them didn't we, can't believe they fell for that.
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Swoopes_O'grady
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 1180
Location: Houston, Tx
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hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 05/02/06 10:54 am ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| MsTena-T wrote: |
I have really been trying to let this one pass BUT I am about to go on vacation so I figured I better let it out . . .
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
1. I am not understanding how you come into somebody else's house illegally and demand that you now be made legal without going tthrough the proper channels.
2. I have a BIG BIG problem when I hear them compare their plight to to Martin L. King and the civil rights movement.
3. When I hear them say "We do the jobs that the Blacks won't do" I am not sure if that is a back-handed compliment or a straight in your face dis.
I think if illegal immigrants are granted amnesty that All American born citizens who do not have a felony should be allowed 1 illegal act (no guns) . Me I'd be at the bank make a large withdrawal. |
I take it you're not "Mexican."
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KeiraNY
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 12683
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: 05/02/06 11:08 am ::: |
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I agree!!! The issue is the fact that the govt is looking to incarcerate these people who technically are breaking the law but still contribute to society! They people are cooks, bus boys, waiters, carpenters, berry pickers, construction workers, maids, etc that do nothing but work hard for VERY little pay.
I wouldn't do HALF the jobs these people do. I certainly won't clean anyone's dirty shit, pluck chickens and serve ANYONE a meal (unless they want to wear it) for $3.25 an hour! That's just not for me. However, SOMEONE has to do these jobs. I've never heard ANY Hispanic, Mexican or otherwise, say anything about blacks. Even if one person said that, it still doesn't constitute the ENTIRE Hispanic population!
Rather than criminalizing these people, give them the amnesty needed to get their citizenship shit together! Hell, how many of us complain about the bureaucracy in this country? Imagine how that is for someone who knows LESS about the ins & outs of the government. It's not exactly a cake walk for these immigrants. Make it easier for them to become legal and see how many become citizens. Those who don't, after a certain amnesty period, then those can go back!
I find it appalling that some people bitch & moan about the "illegals" from the comforts of home! How many of us have seen our families killed by the police? How many of us go hungry for days in order to give meager rations to the rest of our family?? I certainly haven't, but as a Hispanic, I understand their pleas. It's nice to be warm, fed & happy yet still throw stones!
| Swoopes_O'grady wrote: |
What's the problem? It's not like it's the first time illegals immigrants have come to North America. Remember, all the early settlers from England, Spain, and other countries who came over to North America without any regards to the native americans already here. What's the deal?
As far as working jobs Americans don't want to do, well think about it, it's really the truth. I personally have never heard any 'Mexicans' as you're putting it, say that they're taking jobs that blacks won't take. Just chill out and go on vacation.  |
_________________ Since this "FUCK this 'signature is too long' bullshit!!!" is no longer applicable, I'm gonna have to get creative - just not right now. Oh, GO LIBERTY!!!!  |
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MsTena-T
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 2178
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| Posted: 05/02/06 11:21 am ::: |
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| Swoopes_O'grady wrote: |
What's the problem? It's not like it's the first time illegals immigrants have come to North America. Remember, all the early settlers from England, Spain, and other countries who came over to North America without any regards to the native americans already here. What's the deal?
As far as working jobs Americans don't want to do, well think about it, it's really the truth. I personally have never heard any 'Mexicans' as you're putting it, say that they're taking jobs that blacks won't take. Just chill out and go on vacation. |
Thank you for that directive, but I really don't need you to tell me what to do or when to do it.
If you read very carefully and one thing about me is I DO NOT STUDDER! I amd saying what I have heard here on the radio for weeks. THEY used the term "MEXICANS" and I said what they said, I did not paraphrase as you did with one of my statements. Not ONE time did you read where I said it was said anythign about working jobs Americans don't want to do. Let me say it again and therefore if you chose to read it as it is said, then maybe just maybe you might get the point of the insult.
I'll say it again. It has been said by many "MEXICANS" (that's how they referred to themselves if you have a beef with it next time I hear it I will be sure to call the TV station or Radio station and get the persons name, telephone number and address and post on the board for you so you can take it up with them. If the persons that I am referring to call themselves MExicans, what the hell am I supposed to call them. What am I supposed to say, "No you are not a Mexican don't call yourself that") in interviews that they are doing the jobs that BLACK people won't do. That is a hell of a different statement than saying AMERICANS won't do them, especially with they SPECIFICALLY call out ONE race of people. Sooooo since you did not hear does that mean it was not said? It has been said and it has been said mmmmmmmmmmannnnnnny times, and that is the damn insult.
Furthermore if you were that appauled you should have an issue with them calling out ONE ethnicity/race as opposed to saying ALL AMERICANS. But I know it is easier for you to take issue with what I said than to face the real insult, because when it is a black person being offended and they say something about it, it is "Playing the Race Card" but if you offend any other race of people it is being insensitive and offensive. Damn my bad that's typical and I know it, you caught me off guard.
One more thing, I was not here when the early settlers came, so I am not that concerned about what happened with"early settlers". There are many things that was then that is not today, legally, like hmmmmmm slavery, gun fights at the O K Corral! & undocumented workers!
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MsTena-T
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 2178
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| Posted: 05/02/06 11:27 am ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| hooper1 wrote: |
| MsTena-T wrote: |
I have really been trying to let this one pass BUT I am about to go on vacation so I figured I better let it out . . .
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
1. I am not understanding how you come into somebody else's house illegally and demand that you now be made legal without going tthrough the proper channels.
2. I have a BIG BIG problem when I hear them compare their plight to to Martin L. King and the civil rights movement.
3. When I hear them say "We do the jobs that the Blacks won't do" I am not sure if that is a back-handed compliment or a straight in your face dis.
I think if illegal immigrants are granted amnesty that All American born citizens who do not have a felony should be allowed 1 illegal act (no guns) . Me I'd be at the bank make a large withdrawal. |
I take it you're not "Mexican." |
I might be! And what difference would that make? All "Mexicans" do not agree with this immigrant idea. Heard some and talk to some. So by you school of thought I need to go tell them that they are not "Mexicans" (that is what they call themselves)
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MsTena-T
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 2178
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| Posted: 05/02/06 11:39 am ::: |
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| KeiraNY wrote: |
I agree!!! The issue is the fact that the govt is looking to incarcerate these people who technically are breaking the law but still contribute to society! They people are cooks, bus boys, waiters, carpenters, berry pickers, construction workers, maids, etc that do nothing but work hard for VERY little pay.
I wouldn't do HALF the jobs these people do. I certainly won't clean anyone's dirty shit, pluck chickens and serve ANYONE a meal (unless they want to wear it) for $3.25 an hour! That's just not for me. However, SOMEONE has to do these jobs. I've never heard ANY Hispanic, Mexican or otherwise, say anything about blacks. Even if one person said that, it still doesn't constitute the ENTIRE Hispanic population!
Rather than criminalizing these people, give them the amnesty needed to get their citizenship shit together! Hell, how many of us complain about the bureaucracy in this country? Imagine how that is for someone who knows LESS about the ins & outs of the government. It's not exactly a cake walk for these immigrants. Make it easier for them to become legal and see how many become citizens. Those who don't, after a certain amnesty period, then those can go back!
I find it appalling that some people bitch & moan about the "illegals" from the comforts of home! How many of us have seen our families killed by the police? How many of us go hungry for days in order to give meager rations to the rest of our family?? I certainly haven't, but as a Hispanic, I understand their pleas. It's nice to be warm, fed & happy yet still throw stones!
| Swoopes_O'grady wrote: |
What's the problem? It's not like it's the first time illegals immigrants have come to North America. Remember, all the early settlers from England, Spain, and other countries who came over to North America without any regards to the native americans already here. What's the deal?
As far as working jobs Americans don't want to do, well think about it, it's really the truth. I personally have never heard any 'Mexicans' as you're putting it, say that they're taking jobs that blacks won't take. Just chill out and go on vacation. |
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First of all when did I say ALL Mexicans said anything, please show me that.
Secondly I have not seen my family killed by police but I have had to endure the stories of my parents and relatives about their experiences of being victms of rapes, beatings, berating, humilation, hangings and spit on right here in the good old U S of A.
I don't need to see it live I see it's affects. I see some of my cousin who could pass for white and all the other sibilings are dark black and them having complexes becasue they are obviously different. Oh I have horror stories. I have a whole generation of them.
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KeiraNY
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 12683
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: 05/02/06 12:02 pm ::: |
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First of all, chill out!! It's a discussion, take a chill pill! My point was that it's VERY easy for "Americans" to bitch about the ills of the illegals in society when they're sitting at home nice & warm with their bellies full! People who haven't endured THIS specific situation may only have an intellectual comprehension, not a practical one! I'm ONLY talking about the here & now, not that happened years ago! Hell if that was the case, my ENTIRE island was wiped clean by the Spaniards. Every race/ethnicity has gone through really bad things through time. I'm not even entertaining that notion w/ this topic. I'm merely sticking to the here & now.
I stand firm by saying that I haven't heard ANY Mexican say they do jobs "blacks won't do". Again, just because a handful of people say that, doesn't make it a true statement or does it blanket an entire nationality. You didn't physically say it, I agree. The writing is there though!
| MsTena-T wrote: |
| KeiraNY wrote: |
I agree!!! The issue is the fact that the govt is looking to incarcerate these people who technically are breaking the law but still contribute to society! They people are cooks, bus boys, waiters, carpenters, berry pickers, construction workers, maids, etc that do nothing but work hard for VERY little pay.
I wouldn't do HALF the jobs these people do. I certainly won't clean anyone's dirty shit, pluck chickens and serve ANYONE a meal (unless they want to wear it) for $3.25 an hour! That's just not for me. However, SOMEONE has to do these jobs. I've never heard ANY Hispanic, Mexican or otherwise, say anything about blacks. Even if one person said that, it still doesn't constitute the ENTIRE Hispanic population!
Rather than criminalizing these people, give them the amnesty needed to get their citizenship shit together! Hell, how many of us complain about the bureaucracy in this country? Imagine how that is for someone who knows LESS about the ins & outs of the government. It's not exactly a cake walk for these immigrants. Make it easier for them to become legal and see how many become citizens. Those who don't, after a certain amnesty period, then those can go back!
I find it appalling that some people bitch & moan about the "illegals" from the comforts of home! How many of us have seen our families killed by the police? How many of us go hungry for days in order to give meager rations to the rest of our family?? I certainly haven't, but as a Hispanic, I understand their pleas. It's nice to be warm, fed & happy yet still throw stones!
| Swoopes_O'grady wrote: |
What's the problem? It's not like it's the first time illegals immigrants have come to North America. Remember, all the early settlers from England, Spain, and other countries who came over to North America without any regards to the native americans already here. What's the deal?
As far as working jobs Americans don't want to do, well think about it, it's really the truth. I personally have never heard any 'Mexicans' as you're putting it, say that they're taking jobs that blacks won't take. Just chill out and go on vacation. |
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First of all when did I say ALL Mexicans said anything, please show me that.
Secondly I have not seen my family killed by police but I have had to endure the stories of my parents and relatives about their experiences of being victms of rapes, beatings, berating, humilation, hangings and spit on right here in the good old U S of A.
I don't need to see it live I see it's affects. I see some of my cousin who could pass for white and all the other sibilings are dark black and them having complexes becasue they are obviously different. Oh I have horror stories. I have a whole generation of them. |
_________________ Since this "FUCK this 'signature is too long' bullshit!!!" is no longer applicable, I'm gonna have to get creative - just not right now. Oh, GO LIBERTY!!!! |
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MsTena-T
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 2178
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| Posted: 05/02/06 12:20 pm ::: |
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| KeiraNY wrote: |
First of all, chill out!! It's a discussion, take a chill pill! My point was that it's VERY easy for "Americans" to bitch about the ills of the illegals in society when they're sitting at home nice & warm with their bellies full! People who haven't endured THIS specific situation may only have an intellectual comprehension, not a practical one! I'm ONLY talking about the here & now, not that happened years ago! Hell if that was the case, my ENTIRE island was wiped clean by the Spaniards. Every race/ethnicity has gone through really bad things through time. I'm not even entertaining that notion w/ this topic. I'm merely sticking to the here & now.
I stand firm by saying that I haven't heard ANY Mexican say they do jobs "blacks won't do". Again, just because a handful of people say that, doesn't make it a true statement or does it blanket an entire nationality. You didn't physically say it, I agree. The writing is there though!
| MsTena-T wrote: |
| KeiraNY wrote: |
I agree!!! The issue is the fact that the govt is looking to incarcerate these people who technically are breaking the law but still contribute to society! They people are cooks, bus boys, waiters, carpenters, berry pickers, construction workers, maids, etc that do nothing but work hard for VERY little pay.
I wouldn't do HALF the jobs these people do. I certainly won't clean anyone's dirty shit, pluck chickens and serve ANYONE a meal (unless they want to wear it) for $3.25 an hour! That's just not for me. However, SOMEONE has to do these jobs. I've never heard ANY Hispanic, Mexican or otherwise, say anything about blacks. Even if one person said that, it still doesn't constitute the ENTIRE Hispanic population!
Rather than criminalizing these people, give them the amnesty needed to get their citizenship shit together! Hell, how many of us complain about the bureaucracy in this country? Imagine how that is for someone who knows LESS about the ins & outs of the government. It's not exactly a cake walk for these immigrants. Make it easier for them to become legal and see how many become citizens. Those who don't, after a certain amnesty period, then those can go back!
I find it appalling that some people bitch & moan about the "illegals" from the comforts of home! How many of us have seen our families killed by the police? How many of us go hungry for days in order to give meager rations to the rest of our family?? I certainly haven't, but as a Hispanic, I understand their pleas. It's nice to be warm, fed & happy yet still throw stones!
| Swoopes_O'grady wrote: |
What's the problem? It's not like it's the first time illegals immigrants have come to North America. Remember, all the early settlers from England, Spain, and other countries who came over to North America without any regards to the native americans already here. What's the deal?
As far as working jobs Americans don't want to do, well think about it, it's really the truth. I personally have never heard any 'Mexicans' as you're putting it, say that they're taking jobs that blacks won't take. Just chill out and go on vacation. |
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First of all when did I say ALL Mexicans said anything, please show me that.
Secondly I have not seen my family killed by police but I have had to endure the stories of my parents and relatives about their experiences of being victms of rapes, beatings, berating, humilation, hangings and spit on right here in the good old U S of A.
I don't need to see it live I see it's affects. I see some of my cousin who could pass for white and all the other sibilings are dark black and them having complexes becasue they are obviously different. Oh I have horror stories. I have a whole generation of them. |
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It's a discussion and I am discussing it passionately. Why? because when I said what I heard here in the many interviews and discussions and somebody comes back with the implication that it was not said because they did not hear it, yeha I have a problem with that.
Secondly no matter when a persons atrocities happened they still happened and you can't and won't minimize the affects of it becaue it did not happen yesterday, that is as insulting as the other statement. and I am not talking about going back as far as the Spaniards, I have cousins who are products of being raped by white man who are barely over 40 years old . . . and I am talking about things that happend in the USA. You can't expect one to have empathy for your situation while you are insulting and don't give a damn about their's.
One more thing Keira, You don't have to back down becasue I am NOT but one thing you should know about me if I meant to say something you won't miss it, have to drw form an inference or look at a writing. If I meant to say ALL Mexicans, believe me I would have said it, I don't have a problem with expressing my opinion and damn sure don't need and interpeter. Oh and becasue you did not hear it does not mean it was not said . . . that statment has been played/said and read over and over here in Houston. Not only that just yesterday there was a guy (who referred to himself as a Mexican) on TV and Radio equalluy comparing this situation to Black American Citizens in the civil rights era, uh similar but not the same.
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Ballwinner
Joined: 29 Dec 2004
Posts: 656
Location: Indianapolis
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| Posted: 05/02/06 3:32 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| MsTena-T wrote: |
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
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This is where I was confused about the use of the word Mexican. The way it reads is that Mexican immigrants are not legal.
FWIW- Sneaking in Canada may be easier. That's how my father's side got in the US not so officially.
_________________
There are good ships, and there are wood ships, the ships that sail the sea. But the most important ships for a viable WNBA future are ownerships, and that will always be.
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rooky
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 840
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| Posted: 05/02/06 3:41 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| MsTena-T wrote: |
| ... 3. When I hear them say "We do the jobs that the Blacks won't do" I am not sure if that is a back-handed compliment or a straight in your face dis. |
Sorry, gotta jump in here.
Even if some of you haven't heard ANY Mexican make such a statement, a very influential Mexican did say something like that last year:
"... Mexico President Vicente Fox outraged U.S. civil rights groups when he said immigrants take jobs that 'not even blacks want to do.'"
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4ever_bball_fan
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 6125
Location: Houston
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| Posted: 05/02/06 3:45 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| Ballwinner wrote: |
| MsTena-T wrote: |
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
|
This is where I was confused about the use of the word Mexican. The way it reads is that Mexican immigrants are not legal.
FWIW- Sneaking in Canada may be easier. That's how my father's side got in the US not so officially. |
Did your dad take to the streets and wave the Canadian flag and insist that driver's license exams and voting ballots be printed in French?
I have not weighed in on this issue all day, but I have to say that a lot of concessions have been made to accomodate both legal, and illegal immigrants from the country of Mexico. And, I must agree that documentation is an equal hassle for employee and employer alike.
I just can't imagine going to a country of which I am not a citizen, be it for work or education, and insisting that they make major changes in how they do things. I have to think my requests would not be accomodated in the least.
_________________
The competitor with the will to win also has the will to work. John Wooden.
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bluewolfvii
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 5007
Location: The Happening
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| Posted: 05/02/06 4:26 pm ::: |
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It's a complex issue and one that makes allies of progressives and conservatives. That's how complex it is. I modify my position on this issue almost every other day.
But at the root I see a very poor country sitting to our south and people coming in the same way some of our great grandparents did. The illegals are strong, fearless, tireless, industrious, smart, freedom lovers, and risk takers. In other words, perfect US citizens - except they're not.
It's a turn-back-the-clock time for American businesses who haven't had a bonanza like this since the early 1900s. It keeps pouring in and the timing is perfect to sustain US growth and solve our retirement dilemma. Baby boomers, after all, are almost ready to start collecting their Social Security.
To stem the tide, however, whatever is to be done has to be levied at the employers profiting from hiring illegals, and the people who bring them in and shelter them. Otherwise they will keep coming in. Poverty is too powerful of an incentive, and America too much to offer.
What I'd like to see happen is full amnesty and citizenship for the people who are already here. Also, higher legal immigration quotas for unskilled labor to encourage more people to follow legal channels; strong penalites for companies who hire illegals; and deportation or fines for those who help illegals.
As to America becoming a bi-lingual nation, it's about time. Children should speak at least two languages, perhaps three so that some of the gay ones can communicate when they flee to our neighbors in the north. (I just thought I'd throw that in there.  )
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blzntr33s
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 364
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| Posted: 05/02/06 5:25 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| 4ever_bball_fan wrote: |
| Ballwinner wrote: |
| MsTena-T wrote: |
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
|
This is where I was confused about the use of the word Mexican. The way it reads is that Mexican immigrants are not legal.
FWIW- Sneaking in Canada may be easier. That's how my father's side got in the US not so officially. |
Did your dad take to the streets and wave the Canadian flag and insist that driver's license exams and voting ballots be printed in French?
I have not weighed in on this issue all day, but I have to say that a lot of concessions have been made to accomodate both legal, and illegal immigrants from the country of Mexico. And, I must agree that documentation is an equal hassle for employee and employer alike.
I just can't imagine going to a country of which I am not a citizen, be it for work or education, and insisting that they make major changes in how they do things. I have to think my requests would not be accomodated in the least. |
A lot of concessions have been made to accommodate legal and illegal immigrants from ALL countries, not just Mexico. They are only targeting the Mexican border, or else you'd see all the other immigrants out there marching as well.
And to clarify for Ms T, Hispanic is defined as persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.
My grandfather came from Mexico when he was two. He learned the language, did the shitty jobs and busted his ass to keep food on the table for his family. He never asked for concessions, but I can assure you he certainly wasn't treated as an equal, though he did go through the proper channels to receive his citizenship long before I was born.
Had this law been in place then, I wouldn't be here, nor would my family. It's unfair to clump all Hispanics and refer to us as 'they' and 'them'. Just as Bush doesn't represent all thoughts of Americans, no one Hispanic can speak for the entire race.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66920
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 05/02/06 5:29 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| blzntr33s wrote: |
| They are only targeting the Mexican border, or else you'd see all the other immigrants out there marching as well. |
Yeah, it's strictly a racial thing. If they were white and/or English speaking illegals, nobody would bat an eye.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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MsTena-T
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 2178
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| Posted: 05/02/06 6:50 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
Reply |
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| blzntr33s wrote: |
| 4ever_bball_fan wrote: |
| Ballwinner wrote: |
| MsTena-T wrote: |
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
|
This is where I was confused about the use of the word Mexican. The way it reads is that Mexican immigrants are not legal.
FWIW- Sneaking in Canada may be easier. That's how my father's side got in the US not so officially. |
Did your dad take to the streets and wave the Canadian flag and insist that driver's license exams and voting ballots be printed in French?
I have not weighed in on this issue all day, but I have to say that a lot of concessions have been made to accomodate both legal, and illegal immigrants from the country of Mexico. And, I must agree that documentation is an equal hassle for employee and employer alike.
I just can't imagine going to a country of which I am not a citizen, be it for work or education, and insisting that they make major changes in how they do things. I have to think my requests would not be accomodated in the least. |
A lot of concessions have been made to accommodate legal and illegal immigrants from ALL countries, not just Mexico. They are only targeting the Mexican border, or else you'd see all the other immigrants out there marching as well.
And to clarify for Ms T, Hispanic is defined as persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.
My grandfather came from Mexico when he was two. He learned the language, did the shitty jobs and busted his ass to keep food on the table for his family. He never asked for concessions, but I can assure you he certainly wasn't treated as an equal, though he did go through the proper channels to receive his citizenship long before I was born.
Had this law been in place then, I wouldn't be here, nor would my family. It's unfair to clump all Hispanics and refer to us as 'they' and 'them'. Just as Bush doesn't represent all thoughts of Americans, no one Hispanic can speak for the entire race. |
This is freaking amazing. So do you speak for all "Hispanics"? You see my issue with you is that you don't have to clarify ANYTHING for me. The persons that I refernce their quote called THEMSELVES MEXICANS. WTF am I supposed to call him and her if that is what they called THEMSELVES. How the hell are you gonna clarify for me something that I am repeating that he and she called themselves. This is that old self-righteous politically correct BS. Those who want to be called Hispanics refer to themselves as such and when I quote someone who specifically says I am a Hispanc then that is what I will say. But these particular individuals call them damnselves MEXICANS. Your defitintion or clarification is not important to me because I was not quoting you.
If fact I have a friend who get s highly offended at the term Hispanic. So what do you want me to do go tell her to stop getting mad because YOU said she is Hispanic. Get freaking real! If you wanna get offended about the name then you need to come down here if you are not already here and roll up on some of these people who are making these statements and tell them that they are not MEXICANS.
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MsTena-T
Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 2178
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| Posted: 05/02/06 6:57 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| blzntr33s wrote: |
| 4ever_bball_fan wrote: |
| Ballwinner wrote: |
| MsTena-T wrote: |
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
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This is where I was confused about the use of the word Mexican. The way it reads is that Mexican immigrants are not legal.
FWIW- Sneaking in Canada may be easier. That's how my father's side got in the US not so officially. |
Did your dad take to the streets and wave the Canadian flag and insist that driver's license exams and voting ballots be printed in French?
I have not weighed in on this issue all day, but I have to say that a lot of concessions have been made to accomodate both legal, and illegal immigrants from the country of Mexico. And, I must agree that documentation is an equal hassle for employee and employer alike.
I just can't imagine going to a country of which I am not a citizen, be it for work or education, and insisting that they make major changes in how they do things. I have to think my requests would not be accomodated in the least. |
A lot of concessions have been made to accommodate legal and illegal immigrants from ALL countries, not just Mexico. They are only targeting the Mexican border, or else you'd see all the other immigrants out there marching as well.
And to clarify for Ms T, Hispanic is defined as persons of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, Central or South American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race.
My grandfather came from Mexico when he was two. He learned the language, did the shitty jobs and busted his ass to keep food on the table for his family. He never asked for concessions, but I can assure you he certainly wasn't treated as an equal, though he did go through the proper channels to receive his citizenship long before I was born.
Had this law been in place then, I wouldn't be here, nor would my family. It's unfair to clump all Hispanics and refer to us as 'they' and 'them'. Just as Bush doesn't represent all thoughts of Americans, no one Hispanic can speak for the entire race. |
Well at least your ancestors had a choice mine did not. They worked, busted their ass, got their asses busted. He did ask to not get his ass beat and they did not get paid shit!
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Awase
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: 05/02/06 9:52 pm ::: |
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This isn't a Mexican issue. It is an issue of several milion people who have either entered the United States illegally, or who have entered the US legally and decided to stay past their authorized stay. And those that have done either of those two things regardless of what country they come from have already broken a federal law, the Immigration and Nationality Act, so in effect they are criminals.
That being said, however, there is no way that the government has the resources to round up 11 million people and deport them. The only problem with granting any kind of "amnesty" or allowing these people a path towards legal residency or citizenship is that it only creates more incentive for others to enter the US illegally.
First we had the special agriculture worker program in the 80's and then legalization for people who could prove that they had been in the United States for a certain number of years whether they entered illegally or legally in the first place.
Then in 1997 we had another round where people could obtain a "green card" if they had someone petition for them before a certain date and paid a penalty fee.
Each program dealt with the illegal immigrant situation of the day. The programs being discussed are just the 2006 version of several programs that have already been implemented. The problem is that the parameters of when you entered, how long you've been here and when someone petitioned for you have all passed for those programs. So the only way to allow these individuals to live here legally is to come up with a program that will allow them to "get their papers".
The problem will not be solved by this round of immigration reform or by building a fence across the whole US Mexico border. Anyone who enters this country legally and decides to stay to live the American dream will only contribute to the next round of amnesty seekers.
There in NO answer for this problem that I can see. We will continue to address the problem every 10 to 15 years just like we've been doing for at least the last 50 years.
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suzy&dee103
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 339
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| Posted: 05/02/06 10:00 pm ::: |
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| Awase wrote: |
This isn't a Mexican issue. It is an issue of several milion people who have either entered the United States illegally, or who have entered the US legally and decided to stay past their authorized stay. And those that have done either of those two things regardless of what country they come from have already broken a federal law, the Immigration and Nationality Act, so in effect they are criminals.
That being said, however, there is no way that the government has the resources to round up 11 million people and deport them. The only problem with granting any kind of "amnesty" or allowing these people a path towards legal residency or citizenship is that it only creates more incentive for others to enter the US illegally.
First we had the special agriculture worker program in the 80's and then legalization for people who could prove that they had been in the United States for a certain number of years whether they entered illegally or legally in the first place.
Then in 1997 we had another round where people could obtain a "green card" if they had someone petition for them before a certain date and paid a penalty fee.
Each program dealt with the illegal immigrant situation of the day. The programs being discussed are just the 2006 version of several programs that have already been implemented. The problem is that the parameters of when you entered, how long you've been here and when someone petitioned for you have all passed for those programs. So the only way to allow these individuals to live here legally is to come up with a program that will allow them to "get their papers".
The problem will not be solved by this round of immigration reform or by building a fence across the whole US Mexico border. Anyone who enters this country legally and decides to stay to live the American dream will only contribute to the next round of amnesty seekers.
There in NO answer for this problem that I can see. We will continue to address the problem every 10 to 15 years just like we've been doing for at least the last 50 years. |
WOW! Very well said, awase! I couldn't agree more!!
_________________
"If I'm playing confidently, there's really, in my eyes... nothing I can't do. So I think if anything, for me, in the game of basketball, it's me versus the game."
- Sue Bird
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 05/03/06 1:03 am ::: |
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| Awase wrote: |
This isn't a Mexican issue.
There in NO answer for this problem that I can see. We will continue to address the problem every 10 to 15 years just like we've been doing for at least the last 50 years. |
This is entirely a Mexican issue. It is amazing to see how many people almost as a reflex of conscience bring up the Canadian border or illegals from other nations who overstay their visas. It seems, I guess, harsh or racist to point the fingers squarely at Mexicans and Mexico. But the one and only reason for the current immigration debate, the actual problem republicans in the house proposed their draconian solution to which subsequently enflamed the primarily Mexican protest response we've been seeing, is dirt poor non-English speaking Mexicans crossing the Southwest borders of the US by the millions and the profound effect that uncheced situation has had. Any laws passed will certainly have to take into account and/or involve all illegals but this issue exists as it does today because of an unprotected border with Mexico which has been utilized by Mexicans for decades to gain illegal and undocumented entrance into the United States. Who is getting in and by what numbers IS the issue. If college educated English speaking Canadians are getting into the country illegal that's not a problem. It may be illegal. And it may SEEM racist to think in terms of being selective about illegal immigration. But I'm not being selective about the enforcement of immigration laws. Go ahead and throw the college educated English speaking Canadians back if you need to feel that applying laws fairly to everyone is how this problem should be addressed. But to concentrate limited resources on a non problem, or to continue to bring up other illegal immigrants to the US beside the millions of Mexicans who are streaming accros the US-Mexican border is just a superfluous distraction.
It is not an unsolvable problem. The solutions are very doable but we should know not to expect sensible solutions from this so highly politicized (as to be impotent) government. But to say there exist no solution to the problem is to say that anarchy is our immigration policy. Not acceptable.
Honestly, I don't expect much from the right. But I wish democrats and progressives would stop trying to out run each other to the politically correct left flank and stop bringing up other peripheral illegal immigration problems and just DEAL with the facts and ramifactions of decades of unchecked illegal Mexican migration into the US. But unfortunately what will happen here is likely to be what happens with every issue. On the left, you'll have the all the people who feel that any and all poor oppressed souls who want to walk into the US should be welcomed and treated humanely and given every opportunity to become US citizens. On the other side are going to be the people who feel that we should be shooting the dirty Mexicans as they try to sneak into our country.
The truth very often hurts, people. And if you're not up close and personal with the ramifactions of a situation, if it's only your problem in the abstract, not something you have to deal with or witness every day, then you've got nothing to do but revert back to your political ideology and overlay it on top of this or any other similar situation. But up close, you'd get to see some very unpleasant truths about the impact of this problem.
I said some stuff a few weeks ago here about how Mexicans in Los Angeles dominate restaurant kitchens and also construction and how that has completely eliminated an entire employment path for African Americans. Yesterday, to maybe add some balance to the day of boycott and protest, as if they'd taken a script from my posts, ABC 7 here in Los Angeles went into the African American community and talked about the impact on their community of exactly the situation I've described, that being the Mexican takeover of complete avenues of employment like construction and restaurant work. I'm going to try to dig up a transcript because I wasn't able to Tivo it or I'd make an audio recording.
You know what? It was fucking heartbreaking. I'll try to find that transcript. The notion that Mexicans are doing jobs that Americans won't do was addressed by the African American community leaders who were interviewed in this report. A guy talked about trying to get on a construction crew and being turned away and watching three Mexicans go after him and get hired. Hello. That's construction in LA. Brothers need not apply. Men whose ancestors were in this country hundreds of years before most white people have been locked out of entire industries by people who are pouring over the borders illegally. And the untold story is that their friends and family who came before them are greasing the skids in ways that present yet more violations of US law and principles of fairness and equality.
I don't care what side of the political spectrum you're on, if you think that situation is acceptable then honestly, I don't have anything to discuss with you._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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blzntr33s
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 364
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| Posted: 05/03/06 9:42 am ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| MsTena-T wrote: |
| This is freaking amazing. So do you speak for all "Hispanics"? You see my issue with you is that you don't have to clarify ANYTHING for me. The persons that I refernce their quote called THEMSELVES MEXICANS. WTF am I supposed to call him and her if that is what they called THEMSELVES. How the hell are you gonna clarify for me something that I am repeating that he and she called themselves. This is that old self-righteous politically correct BS. Those who want to be called Hispanics refer to themselves as such and when I quote someone who specifically says I am a Hispanc then that is what I will say. But these particular individuals call them damnselves MEXICANS. Your defitintion or clarification is not important to me because I was not quoting you. |
No, that was my point in my earlier post. No one person can speak for an entire race. As for the Hispanic thing - being in Houston, chances are you're dealing with Mexicans; but in places like Chicago, New York and Florida, it's most likely you'll be dealing with other Latino nationalities. How that is self-righteous is beyond me. I never said anything about it being a politically correct term, it's how I identify MYSELF.
| MsTena-T wrote: |
| If fact I have a friend who get s highly offended at the term Hispanic. So what do you want me to do go tell her to stop getting mad because YOU said she is Hispanic. Get freaking real! If you wanna get offended about the name then you need to come down here if you are not already here and roll up on some of these people who are making these statements and tell them that they are not MEXICANS. |
Where did I say that they are NOT MEXICANS and are all Hispanic?? Those words were never in any of my posts, I merely copied the definition of the term Hispanic, and didn't try to say anyone was or wasn't ANYTHING. I don't recall getting offended either. Not sure how you inferred that from my post.
| MsTena-T wrote: |
| Well at least your ancestors had a choice mine did not. They worked, busted their ass, got their asses busted. He did ask to not get his ass beat and they did not get paid shit! |
I never compared this situation to slavery because it's nowhere near the same. And some ancestors had a choice and chose to live where there home was, when it was still Mexico. America didn't go after the Southwest territories until Mexico abolished slavery, and they were most concerned with keeping their slaves.
And you're right, he was paid for his work - very little of course, but paid nonetheless picking oranges or doing whatever work he could find. He did get his ass beat, but that was usually the just the cops or the thieves he had to live among because he couldn't afford better.
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hooper1
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 2300
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| Posted: 05/03/06 1:22 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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| MsTena-T wrote: |
| hooper1 wrote: |
| MsTena-T wrote: |
I have really been trying to let this one pass BUT I am about to go on vacation so I figured I better let it out . . .
I have nothing against legal immigrants but I have a big problem with this Mexican immigrant thing.
1. I am not understanding how you come into somebody else's house illegally and demand that you now be made legal without going tthrough the proper channels.
2. I have a BIG BIG problem when I hear them compare their plight to to Martin L. King and the civil rights movement.
3. When I hear them say "We do the jobs that the Blacks won't do" I am not sure if that is a back-handed compliment or a straight in your face dis.
I think if illegal immigrants are granted amnesty that All American born citizens who do not have a felony should be allowed 1 illegal act (no guns) . Me I'd be at the bank make a large withdrawal. |
I take it you're not "Mexican." |
I might be! And what difference would that make? All "Mexicans" do not agree with this immigrant idea. Heard some and talk to some. So by you school of thought I need to go tell them that they are not "Mexicans" (that is what they call themselves) |
Why aren't screaming about the illegal Candadians and illegal immigrants from Europe and Spain and Africa.
I smell a racist.
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KeiraNY
Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 12683
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: 05/03/06 2:29 pm ::: Re: My Immigrant Rant |
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Ms.Tena,
If you look back in history, "your ancestors" don't hold the monopoly on slavery, cruel treatment and suffering. EVERY single race/ethnicity has been victimized at one point or another. The slavery issue was (and still is) the most widely known and spoken of! No one asks to get beaten, no one asks NOT to get paid or to be treated like shit.
However, we're talking apples & oranges here. Again, sticking to the here & now, not to history, I still say the best course of action is to have an amnesty period (since it's apparent people seemed bent over backwards) to keep the Latinos/Hispanics out). During that amnesty period, these illegals can begin the process to citizenship, green card or what not! First the government needs to facilitate the process. Bureaucracy by itself is quite complicated. Imagine what it's like for those who are not fluent w/ the ins & outs of the govt?? If after that amnesty period has passed and X person has failed to begin their citizenship process, then being deportation! Criminalization of HARD working people is just wrong!
Besides, why is no one bitching about the Koreans, the Chinese and other immigrants?? Immigrants are immigrants and all deserve a chance to make it in the country (regardless of nationality), but why are Hispanics (or as it seems Mexicans) being singled out? That's all people talk about & all that's on the news!
As for the Hispanic 'debate', I consider myself Puerto Rican. However, I am also Hispanic & Latino. It doesn't bother me either way. Back in school we learned that Latinos are usually those people from Latin America (ie. Central/South America). The Caribbean is geographically not considered part of Latin America, so those would be the Hispanics (as in Hispaniola) but there are I guess, commonly known as PRicans, Dominicans & Cubans.
Well at least your ancestors had a choice mine did not. They worked, busted their ass, got their asses busted. He did ask to not get his ass beat and they did not get paid shit![/quote]_________________ Since this "FUCK this 'signature is too long' bullshit!!!" is no longer applicable, I'm gonna have to get creative - just not right now. Oh, GO LIBERTY!!!! |
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 18815
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| Posted: 05/03/06 2:33 pm ::: |
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How soft your fields so green,
Can whisper tales of gore,
Of how we calmed the tides of war.
We are your overlords.
On we sweep with threshing oar,
Our only goal will be the western shore.
So now youd better stop and rebuild all your ruins,
For peace and trust can win the day
Despite of all your losing.
I couldn't let the thread go by without The Immigrant Song (at least before pilight did it).
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