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| Who should win Rookie of the Year? |
| Cameron Brink |
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32% |
[ 14 ] |
| Caitlin Clark |
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44% |
[ 19 ] |
| Aaliyah Edwards |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Rickea Jackson |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Kate Martin |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Angel Reese |
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13% |
[ 6 ] |
| Sevgi Uzun |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Julie Vanloo |
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2% |
[ 1 ] |
| someone else |
|
2% |
[ 1 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 43 |
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| Author |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 05/27/24 7:21 am ::: ROY |
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| Monday Poll time!
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Spark4Life
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: 05/27/24 9:42 am ::: |
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| Killa Cam! #ROTY
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SPD
Joined: 29 Oct 2021
Posts: 684
Location: California
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| Posted: 05/27/24 10:34 am ::: |
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This is tough.
Top 3 - Brink, Clark, Reese - gotta see how the season progresses...
But,
Maybe Martin becomes a major contributor
If Vanloo helps turn the Mystics around..
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/28/24 5:17 am ::: |
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| When has it not gone to the 1st pick?
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 05/28/24 5:22 am ::: |
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| wnbafan wrote: |
| When has it not gone to the 1st pick? |
It is not suppose to automatically go to the #1 overall pick. The award belongs to the player deemed the best overall rookie.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 05/28/24 6:28 am ::: |
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| wnbafan wrote: |
| When has it not gone to the 1st pick? |
3 of the last 5 Rookie of the Year winners were not the 1st pick of their draft. And in history 12 winners were not the #1 pick in their draft which is a little less than 50% of all Rookie of the Year winners.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/28/24 7:23 am ::: |
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| wnbafan wrote: |
| When has it not gone to the 1st pick? |
Most recently 2021
Overall the #1 pick has won slightly over half the time (14/26 54%)
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
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| Posted: 05/28/24 9:15 am ::: |
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In case anyone was wondering:
Year Player Team Pick
1998 Tracy Reid Charlotte Sting 7
1999 Chamique Holdsclaw Washington Mystics 1
2000 Betty Lennox Minnesota Lynx 6
2001 Jackie Stiles Portland Fire 4
2002 Tamika Catchings Indiana Fever 3
2003 Cheryl Ford Detroit Shock 3
2004 Diana Taurasi Phoenix Mercury 1
2005 Temeka Johnson Washington Mystics 6
2006 Seimone Augustus Minnesota Lynx 1
2007 Armintie Price Chicago Sky 3
2008 Candace Parker Los Angeles Sparks 1
2009 Angel McCoughtry Atlanta Dream 1
2010 Tina Charles Connecticut Sun 1
2011 Maya Moore Minnesota Lynx 1
2012 Nneka Ogwumike Los Angeles Sparks 1
2013 Elena Delle Donne Chicago Sky 2
2014 Chiney Ogwumike Connecticut Sun 1
2015 Jewell Loyd Seattle Storm 1
2016 Breanna Stewart Seattle Storm 1
2017 Allisha Gray Dallas Wings 4
2018 A'ja Wilson Las Vegas Aces 1
2019 Napheesa Collier Minnesota Lynx 6
2020 Crystal Dangerfield Minnesota Lynx 16
2021 Michaela Onyenwere New York Liberty 6
2022 Rhyne Howard Atlanta Dream 1
2023 Aliyah Boston Indiana Fever 1
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12647
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 05/28/24 9:17 am ::: |
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| BamaEd wrote: |
In case anyone was wondering:
Year Player Team Pick
1998 Tracy Reid Charlotte Sting 7
1999 Chamique Holdsclaw Washington Mystics 1
2000 Betty Lennox Minnesota Lynx 6
2001 Jackie Stiles Portland Fire 4
2002 Tamika Catchings Indiana Fever 3
2003 Cheryl Ford Detroit Shock 3
2004 Diana Taurasi Phoenix Mercury 1
2005 Temeka Johnson Washington Mystics 6
2006 Seimone Augustus Minnesota Lynx 1
2007 Armintie Price Chicago Sky 3
2008 Candace Parker Los Angeles Sparks 1
2009 Angel McCoughtry Atlanta Dream 1
2010 Tina Charles Connecticut Sun 1
2011 Maya Moore Minnesota Lynx 1
2012 Nneka Ogwumike Los Angeles Sparks 1
2013 Elena Delle Donne Chicago Sky 2
2014 Chiney Ogwumike Connecticut Sun 1
2015 Jewell Loyd Seattle Storm 1
2016 Breanna Stewart Seattle Storm 1
2017 Allisha Gray Dallas Wings 4
2018 A'ja Wilson Las Vegas Aces 1
2019 Napheesa Collier Minnesota Lynx 6
2020 Crystal Dangerfield Minnesota Lynx 16
2021 Michaela Onyenwere New York Liberty 6
2022 Rhyne Howard Atlanta Dream 1
2023 Aliyah Boston Indiana Fever 1 |
This would be a great trivia question. Who was the first WNBA ROY ? Most would say Chamique .
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 05/28/24 9:56 am ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
This would be a great trivia question. Who was the first WNBA ROY ? Most would say Chamique . |
I still can't believe that Ticha Penicheiro was Top 5 in steals and led the league in assists as a rookie, and Margo Dydek was Top 5 in rebounds and led the league in blocks (and averaged almost 13 pts a game), and they still gave ROY to Tracy Reid. I don't know whether that was east coast bias, or whether it was a function of, "Well, Charlotte is winning, so Reid is clearly the best rookie." Like, I can look at Lennox winning in 2000 and compare her to the rest of her rookie class and be like, "Okay, I can see how that happened." When I compare Reid's numbers to Margo's numbers, the math ain't mathin'.
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
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| Posted: 05/28/24 10:22 am ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
This would be a great trivia question. Who was the first WNBA ROY ? Most would say Chamique . |
I still can't believe that Ticha Penicheiro was Top 5 in steals and led the league in assists as a rookie, and Margo Dydek was Top 5 in rebounds and led the league in blocks (and averaged almost 13 pts a game), and they still gave ROY to Tracy Reid. I don't know whether that was east coast bias, or whether it was a function of, "Well, Charlotte is winning, so Reid is clearly the best rookie." Like, I can look at Lennox winning in 2000 and compare her to the rest of her rookie class and be like, "Okay, I can see how that happened." When I compare Reid's numbers to Margo's numbers, the math ain't mathin'. |
Well now I'm about to really confound you and make you mad. I can't post tables very well here, but this page shows the breakdown in voting for all awards that year. I'm sure you will have thoughts on ROTY
https://www.basketball-reference.com/wnba/awards/awards_1998.html
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ChasingRatDogmaSalade
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
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Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: 05/28/24 10:32 am ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
This would be a great trivia question. Who was the first WNBA ROY ? Most would say Chamique . |
I still can't believe that Ticha Penicheiro was Top 5 in steals and led the league in assists as a rookie, and Margo Dydek was Top 5 in rebounds and led the league in blocks (and averaged almost 13 pts a game), and they still gave ROY to Tracy Reid. I don't know whether that was east coast bias, or whether it was a function of, "Well, Charlotte is winning, so Reid is clearly the best rookie." Like, I can look at Lennox winning in 2000 and compare her to the rest of her rookie class and be like, "Okay, I can see how that happened." When I compare Reid's numbers to Margo's numbers, the math ain't mathin'. |
Reid was pretty clearly the better offensive player.
TR—13.8 peg, 5.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 2.5 TOpg, .487 FG%, OER 101, 3.6 WS
MD—12.9 peg, 7.6 rpg, 1.8 apg, 3.6 TOpg, .482 FG%, OER 91, 1.8 WS
TP—6.3 peg, 3.7 rpg, 7.5 apg, 3.0 TOpg, .333 FG%, OER 83, 0.9 WS
From a story line perspective, you had Margo Dydek join a team with a .250 winning percentage in 1997, and improve it by 1 win to a .266 winning percentage.
Penicheiro took a team with a .357 winning percentage and won 2 fewer games for a .266 winning percentage.
Reid joined a 15-win team, which improved it to an 18 win team, so she had the narrative going for her. That Sting team started the year 13-3 as well, so her narrative caught on early.
Dydek also suffered from expectations—How could a 7-2 player not be putting up 25-12 every night? The fact that a 5-11 Reid had a better shooting percentage than Dydek is a pretty big knock on Large Marge.
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
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| Posted: 05/28/24 11:15 am ::: |
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But back to this year's rookie of the year race, right now none of those top 3 have separated themselves.
Clark has the points and assists, but also turnovers (expected due to being the main ball handlers plus some of those are on teammates) and her team has just 1 win.
Brink has good points & FG%, great blocks, not as big on rebounds (next to Hamby, that's expected). But she also is saddling herself with silly fouls. Also, her team has just 1 win.
Reese has good points, awful FG% for a post, great rebounds. Also, Chicago has a big win over the Liberty.
Right now, I would probably give the edge to Clark. In this league, posts are the focal point. To be able to come in and have an impact is big.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 05/28/24 12:23 pm ::: |
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| BamaEd wrote: |
| But back to this year's rookie of the year race, right now none of those top 3 have separated themselves. |
That’s where anticipation skills come in handy. Your analysis was decent, but nowhere did I see you mention how brutal IND’s schedule has been compared to the others. Seven games in 12 days. No other team has played as much. LAS has played 5. CHI has played 4.
Not only has the lack of rest been brutal, the teams IND has had to play through lack of rest and practice has been tough also.
CON 2
NYL 2
SEA 1
LAS 1
LVA 1
It’s not a huge surprise to me that they’re 1-6 right now. As Clark herself has pointed out, they weren’t many points away from being 3-4.
As the schedule lightens up for IND, their bodies should be able to recover better and they get to practice more, I anticipate both IND and Clark only getting better. PG is the toughest position to transition, especially without practice, so I anticipate Clark will only get better as she learns her teammates’ strengths and tendencies.
Hopefully, Christie Sides will lighten up and let Clark play more freely. Clark has credited Bluder for much of her success by letting her play free, letting her do what she wants. With Sides, she thinks her coaching will make the difference between winning and losing. She thinks Clark has bad habits she needs to break. This has the mass of new WNBA fans not liking Sides very much. They want to see what they saw in the college game. Two or three logo threes a game might keep these new fans happy, win or lose. Engelbert has already shown signs of wanting to keep these new fans happy.
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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
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| Posted: 05/28/24 12:39 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| BamaEd wrote: |
| But back to this year's rookie of the year race, right now none of those top 3 have separated themselves. |
That’s where anticipation skills come in handy. Your analysis was decent, but nowhere did I see you mention how brutal IND’s schedule has been compared to the others. Seven games in 12 days. No other team has played as much. LAS has played 5. CHI has played 4.
Not only has the lack of rest been brutal, the teams IND has had to play through lack of rest and practice has been tough also.
CON 2
NYL 2
SEA 1
LAS 1
LVA 1
It’s not a huge surprise to me that they’re 1-6 right now. As Clark herself has pointed out, they weren’t many points away from being 3-4.
As the schedule lightens up for IND, their bodies should be able to recover better and they get to practice more, I anticipate both IND and Clark only getting better. PG is the toughest position to transition, especially without practice, so I anticipate Clark will only get better as she learns her teammates’ strengths and tendencies. |
You are right and I dang near did when I put how many wins each team had. I couldn't believe when I saw records this past weekend and how many games some teams had played. I would expect a 1-2 game difference in total played. But to have a team play 7 games before another team even played their 4th is bizarre. I guess the league wanted to hit the Clark effect hard, but probably at the expense of the team. 7 games in a week and a half ain't easy for anyone.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 05/28/24 12:57 pm ::: |
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| BamaEd wrote: |
| I guess the league wanted to hit the Clark effect hard, but probably at the expense of the team. 7 games in a week and a half ain't easy for anyone. |
I have my doubts. The draft lottery was 12/10/2023. The 2024 WNBA schedule was released about a week later. Does it take a while to make a schedule or is it all done by AI instantly? It could be the worst teams get the least consideration for scheduling. Clark didn’t even commit to the WNBA until March of 2024.
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tfan
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/01/24 12:48 pm ::: |
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| Cardoso now in the mix. It depends on when she can play more minutes. Her size is making her as effective as I thought she'd be in limited minutes.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 06/01/24 1:07 pm ::: |
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| I will withhold judgement on Cardoso until I see more than one game against the worst defensive team in the league. Actually getting on the court is a step in the right direction.
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Shades
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| Posted: 06/01/24 5:19 pm ::: |
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Cardoso made one of the mistakes down the stretch that contributed to the loss. It’s hard to brag up player’s effectiveness when the team loses.
Cardoso traveled, Evans missed a free throw, and Mabrey missed a free throw down the stretch. Chicago lost by 1.
Weatherspoon shouldn’t have put her in a high pressure situation in only her first game. Should have had EWill in there, player of the game EWill in the last game against the Sparks.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 06/01/24 7:48 pm ::: |
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| ChasingRatDogmaSalade wrote: |
Reid was pretty clearly the better offensive player
TR—13.8 peg, 5.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 2.5 TOpg, .487 FG%, OER 101, 3.6 WS
MD—12.9 peg, 7.6 rpg, 1.8 apg, 3.6 TOpg, .482 FG%, OER 91, 1.8 WS
TP—6.3 peg, 3.7 rpg, 7.5 apg, 3.0 TOpg, .333 FG%, OER 83, 0.9 WS
... Reid joined a 15-win team, which improved it to an 18 win team, so she had the narrative going for her. That Sting team started the year 13-3 as well, so her narrative caught on early.
Dydek also suffered from expectations—How could a 7-2 player not be putting up 25-12 every night? The fact that a 5-11 Reid had a better shooting percentage than Dydek is a pretty big knock on Large Marge. |
I guess I'll just have to console myself with the knowledge that history proved me right.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/01/24 8:10 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| ChasingRatDogmaSalade wrote: |
Reid was pretty clearly the better offensive player
TR—13.8 peg, 5.2 rpg, 1.5 apg, 2.5 TOpg, .487 FG%, OER 101, 3.6 WS
MD—12.9 peg, 7.6 rpg, 1.8 apg, 3.6 TOpg, .482 FG%, OER 91, 1.8 WS
TP—6.3 peg, 3.7 rpg, 7.5 apg, 3.0 TOpg, .333 FG%, OER 83, 0.9 WS
... Reid joined a 15-win team, which improved it to an 18 win team, so she had the narrative going for her. That Sting team started the year 13-3 as well, so her narrative caught on early.
Dydek also suffered from expectations—How could a 7-2 player not be putting up 25-12 every night? The fact that a 5-11 Reid had a better shooting percentage than Dydek is a pretty big knock on Large Marge. |
I guess I'll just have to console myself with the knowledge that history proved me right. |
We all have our turns at being proven right. I've been ridiculed here since I stated Duke could beat Tennessee in 1999. That win felt especially good. The harsher the ridicule, the better it feels when history proves me right.
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