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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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 Posted: 01/08/24 4:55 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| There is one other option, the trans individual can wait to start hormone treatments until their athletic career is over |
The difference between that and not wanting trans people to exist is purely semantical. "Sure, you can compete in sports, as long as you stay in the closet." That's what you just said.
That's not a "choice."
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/08/24 6:24 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| There is one other option, the trans individual can wait to start hormone treatments until their athletic career is over |
The difference between that and not wanting trans people to exist is purely semantical. "Sure, you can compete in sports, as long as you stay in the closet." That's what you just said.
That's not a "choice." |
No, in fact that is not what I said, you might want to re-read my post, or go back to elementary school and re-learn how to read. The person that HAS the choice should b the one that faces the disadvantage rather than the person that has no input to whether they should be disadvantaged or not. Its a basic principle of fairness, which is why leftist lunatics don't get it, they don't want fair, they want massive amounts of privilege for their cause du jour, even if it means absolutely betraying a former group you championed, IE women in sports sacrificed on the alter of Trans rights.
There is no completely fair way to decide this, someone ends up disadvantaged. So by any logical approach it should be the one that has q choice in whether they choose to play at a disadvantage or not.
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Michael
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patsweetpat
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| Posted: 01/08/24 7:58 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Its a basic principle of fairness, which is why leftist lunatics don't get it, they don't want fair, they want massive amounts of privilege for their cause du jour. |
Speaking as someone whom I guess you would classify as a "leftist lunatic", I can tell you that what I *actually* want is for trans youth-- the most vulnerable and stigmatized citizens we have-- to be accepted for the gender with which they identify. And I want that because acceptance of one's gender identity (by adults and peers within one's community) is statistically associated with lower rates of suicide within that vulnerable population.
Too many trans kids are killing themselves, and I want fewer of them to do so.
That's what I want, Michael.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/08/24 8:01 pm ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Its a basic principle of fairness, which is why leftist lunatics don't get it, they don't want fair, they want massive amounts of privilege for their cause du jour. |
Speaking as someone whom I guess you would classify as a "leftist lunatic", I can tell you that what I *actually* want is for trans youth-- the most vulnerable and stigmatized citizens we have-- to be accepted for the gender with which they identify. And I want that because acceptance of one's gender identity (by adults and peers within one's community) is statistically associated with lower rates of suicide within that vulnerable population.
Too many trans kids are killing themselves, and I want fewer of them to do so.
That's what I want, Michael. |
So do I, but not at the expense of CIS girls getting pummeled in sports that are not supposed to have bio males in them.
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patsweetpat
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| Posted: 01/08/24 8:41 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Its a basic principle of fairness, which is why leftist lunatics don't get it, they don't want fair, they want massive amounts of privilege for their cause du jour. |
Speaking as someone whom I guess you would classify as a "leftist lunatic", I can tell you that what I *actually* want is for trans youth-- the most vulnerable and stigmatized citizens we have-- to be accepted for the gender with which they identify. And I want that because acceptance of one's gender identity (by adults and peers within one's community) is statistically associated with lower rates of suicide within that vulnerable population.
Too many trans kids are killing themselves, and I want fewer of them to do so.
That's what I want, Michael. |
So do I, but not at the expense of CIS girls getting pummeled in sports that are not supposed to have bio males in them. |
I guess I'd need to see some actual data about cis girls (supposedly) "getting pummeled in sports". Is it an actual fact that cis female athletes competing with trans female athletes are injured at statistically higher rates than those who aren't competing with trans female athletes? Please show me that data! (Note: your anecdotes don't count as data)
Until I see said data, my own personal inclination is to err on the side of accepting and supporting the most vulnerable and stigmatized (and suicidal) population in the United States.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/08/24 8:52 pm ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Its a basic principle of fairness, which is why leftist lunatics don't get it, they don't want fair, they want massive amounts of privilege for their cause du jour. |
Speaking as someone whom I guess you would classify as a "leftist lunatic", I can tell you that what I *actually* want is for trans youth-- the most vulnerable and stigmatized citizens we have-- to be accepted for the gender with which they identify. And I want that because acceptance of one's gender identity (by adults and peers within one's community) is statistically associated with lower rates of suicide within that vulnerable population.
Too many trans kids are killing themselves, and I want fewer of them to do so.
That's what I want, Michael. |
So do I, but not at the expense of CIS girls getting pummeled in sports that are not supposed to have bio males in them. |
I guess I'd need to see some actual data about cis girls (supposedly) "getting pummeled in sports". Is it an actual fact that cis female athletes competing with trans female athletes are injured at statistically higher rates than those who aren't competing with trans female athletes? Please show me that data! (Note: your anecdotes don't count as data)
Until I see said data, my own personal inclination is to err on the side of accepting and supporting the most vulnerable and stigmatized (and suicidal) population in the United States. |
In less than an hour of looking for instances: Cis girl knocked out in hockey game by trans girl, three cis girls injured and unable to continue in one game of Rugby in Guam by a trans girl, two girls badly injured by trans girls in volleyball from very hard spikes to the face. One received a skull fracture, the other neck and back injuries and a concussion all of which still plagued her months later. For both the injuries end their athletic careers, volleyball and basketball. I linked that video in the first post of this thread. The trans girl hit the ball so high in the air it went over the blocker at the net by a foot but still hit the defender at the 10' line so hard it bounced off her face, into the net distorting it very visibly and then back 5 feet into the court before hitting the ground. Again I watched the NCAA women's volleyball finals and no one on either team got up that high or hit a ball that hard from either team. Another girl lost teeth to a hard deflected shot from a trans woman in field hockey. As has been pointed out, there are not a lot of trans women in sports yet, but they do seem to be causing a number of injuries far in excess of their percentage of participation. Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls, especially the volleyball and field hockey injuries.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 01/08/24 9:01 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| ...there are not a lot of trans women in sports yet, but they do seem to be causing a number of injuries far in excess of their percentage of participation. Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls, especially the volleyball and field hockey injuries. |
*citation needed
(reminder: cherry-picked anecdotes are not a citation of data)
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/08/24 9:04 pm ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| ...there are not a lot of trans women in sports yet, but they do seem to be causing a number of injuries far in excess of their percentage of participation. Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls, especially the volleyball and field hockey injuries. |
*citation needed
(reminder: cherry-picked anecdotes are not a citation of data) |
Find me instances like these from Cis girls on cis girls, because I looked and I cannot. Injuries yes, this severity, no.
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Michael
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patsweetpat
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| Posted: 01/08/24 9:29 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| ...there are not a lot of trans women in sports yet, but they do seem to be causing a number of injuries far in excess of their percentage of participation. Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls, especially the volleyball and field hockey injuries. |
*citation needed
(reminder: cherry-picked anecdotes are not a citation of data) |
Find me instances like these from Cis girls on cis girls, because I looked and I cannot. Injuries yes, this severity, no. |
I'm not gonna play dueling anecdotes with you, Michael. You're the one making these supposed declarations of objective fact ("Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls"), so you're the one who can prove your declarations, or not.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 01/08/24 9:37 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| No, in fact that is not what I said, you might want to re-read my post, or go back to elementary school and re-learn how to read. The person that HAS the choice should b the one that faces the disadvantage rather than the person that has no input to whether they should be disadvantaged or not. |
I read quite well. You, however, appear to not understand the actual meanings of the words you are writing. The only "choice" you have presented the trans athletes is, "stay in the closet in order to have an athletic career, or don't compete in sports." Telling a trans person that they have to remain closeted in order to have a life is not a choice.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/08/24 9:48 pm ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| ...there are not a lot of trans women in sports yet, but they do seem to be causing a number of injuries far in excess of their percentage of participation. Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls, especially the volleyball and field hockey injuries. |
*citation needed
(reminder: cherry-picked anecdotes are not a citation of data) |
Find me instances like these from Cis girls on cis girls, because I looked and I cannot. Injuries yes, this severity, no. |
I'm not gonna play dueling anecdotes with you, Michael. You're the one making these supposed declarations of objective fact ("Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls"), so you're the one who can prove your declarations, or not. |
AS I have said, I have looked and not found any. But I tell you what, if you can find similar injuries cis girls on cis girls in the last 5 years in hs volleyball and field hockey, I'll pull the thread and publicly apologize. I have checked and feel really safe that you won't find any.
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Michael
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/08/24 9:51 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| No, in fact that is not what I said, you might want to re-read my post, or go back to elementary school and re-learn how to read. The person that HAS the choice should b the one that faces the disadvantage rather than the person that has no input to whether they should be disadvantaged or not. |
I read quite well. You, however, appear to not understand the actual meanings of the words you are writing. The only "choice" you have presented the trans athletes is, "stay in the closet in order to have an athletic career, or don't compete in sports." Telling a trans person that they have to remain closeted in order to have a life is not a choice. |
Why can't they be out, compete as their boilogical sex, and not take hormone treatments to disadvantage themselves until their careers are over? That is a choice. They can be openly who they feel they are, I just don't want bio males continuing to badly injure cis girls that have no choice and little defense.
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Michael
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 01/08/24 9:56 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Why can't they be out, compete as their boilogical sex, and not take hormone treatments to disadvantage themselves until their careers are over? That is a choice. They can be openly who they feel they are, I just don't want bio males continuing to badly injure cis girls that have no choice and little defense. |
I imagine that might have played out in rare instances. But yes, there ARE more than 2 choices. For example, the swimmer that broke records - why can't she swim with the men she usta swim with, even while she's transitioning? Why couldn't that volleyball player just play as a female on the men's team? I mean, it might sound odd, but....it's NOT totally impossible.
Being a Bio student in college (and I aced Anatomy & Physiology  ), I am drawn medical analysis on topics like this. This document published by the NIH, entitled Transwoman Elite Athletes: Their Extra Percentage Relative to Female Physiology a little over a year ago provides a metric ton of data that explains how trans females will practically always maintain a distinct advantage over cis females in elite athletics.
| Quote: |
| Male physiology cannot be reformatted by estrogen therapy in transwoman athletes because testosterone has driven permanent effects through early life exposure. This descriptive critical review discusses the inherent male physiological advantages that lead to superior athletic performance and then addresses how estrogen therapy fails to create a female-like physiology in the male. Ultimately, the former male physiology of transwoman athletes provides them with a physiological advantage over the cis-female athlete. |
I already knew that testosterone influences male brains in childhood. Having been an elementary phys ed teacher and coach - as a group, - Boys and Girls just roll differently. I did not fully understand how m/f variations in subtle things (angulation at elbow joints, hips, etc.) are totally altered before/during puberty by testosterone, resulting in significant differences.
I can't imagine how this interest in sparing cis-girls is equivalent to wanting all trans girls to not exist. Maybe I'm an unrealistic optimist, but I still believe there is a broad middle ground between the 2 extremes: Affirming trans girls completely in every consequence of their choice vs. banning them from our society. And right now, it seems that "middle ground" is running right through the athletic fields and courts of our land.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/08/24 10:32 pm ::: |
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[quote="Howee"]
| Michael wrote: |
| Why can't they be out, compete as their boilogical sex, and not take hormone treatments to disadvantage themselves until their careers are over? That is a choice. They can be openly who they feel they are, I just don't want bio males continuing to badly injure cis girls that have no choice and little defense. |
I imagine that might have played out in rare instances. But yes, there ARE more than 2 choices. For example, the swimmer that broke records - why can't she swim with the men she usta swim with, even while she's transitioning? Why couldn't that volleyball player just play as a female on the men's team? I mean, it might sound odd, but....it's NOT totally impossible.
Because against male swimmers before transitioning, Lia Thomas was 574th or so in collegiate swimming in the 500. After transitioning, they were the NCAA winner, and had a time that would have allowed them to go to the Olympics which was their stated lifelong dream. Luckily the international governing bodies have come to their senses and disallowed trans athletes from competing in anything but their biological sex at birth. A little too harsh, but i thought they got it wrong on the Caster Semenya case. She competed as the good lord made her, no gender changes, no hormone treatments, just a naturally occurring genetic anomaly that gave her an athletic advantage, not too dis-similar in my mind to Michael Phelps massive hands and feet and unusually long arms making him nearly the perfect design for a swimmer giving him a massive biological advantage from birth.
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Michael
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 01/08/24 10:47 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| ...there are not a lot of trans women in sports yet, but they do seem to be causing a number of injuries far in excess of their percentage of participation. Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls, especially the volleyball and field hockey injuries. |
*citation needed
(reminder: cherry-picked anecdotes are not a citation of data) |
Find me instances like these from Cis girls on cis girls, because I looked and I cannot. Injuries yes, this severity, no. |
I'm not gonna play dueling anecdotes with you, Michael. You're the one making these supposed declarations of objective fact ("Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls"), so you're the one who can prove your declarations, or not. |
AS I have said, I have looked and not found any. But I tell you what, if you can find similar injuries cis girls on cis girls in the last 5 years in hs volleyball and field hockey, I'll pull the thread and publicly apologize. I have checked and feel really safe that you won't find any. |
Ugh, fine. Here's an LA Times article from Dec. 2020 about a top-ranking Stanford WVB player who took multiple volleyball shots to the face from her (presumably cis) teammates in practices, and (presumably cis) opponents in games, resulting in multiple concussions that forced her to retire from the sport with persistent and life-altering CTE symptoms. Does that example thus prove that cis female athletes are more likely to have injuries inflicted upon them by other cis female athletes than by trans female athletes? Less likely? Equally likely?
In point of fact, it proves none of the above. Because it's just an anecdote. And anecdotes are not data.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/08/24 10:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| ...there are not a lot of trans women in sports yet, but they do seem to be causing a number of injuries far in excess of their percentage of participation. Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls, especially the volleyball and field hockey injuries. |
*citation needed
(reminder: cherry-picked anecdotes are not a citation of data) |
Find me instances like these from Cis girls on cis girls, because I looked and I cannot. Injuries yes, this severity, no. |
I'm not gonna play dueling anecdotes with you, Michael. You're the one making these supposed declarations of objective fact ("Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls"), so you're the one who can prove your declarations, or not. |
AS I have said, I have looked and not found any. But I tell you what, if you can find similar injuries cis girls on cis girls in the last 5 years in hs volleyball and field hockey, I'll pull the thread and publicly apologize. I have checked and feel really safe that you won't find any. |
Ugh, fine. Here's an LA Times article from Dec. 2020 about a top-ranking Stanford WVB player who took multiple volleyball shots to the face from her (presumably cis) teammates in practices, and (presumably cis) opponents in games, resulting in multiple concussions that forced her to retire from the sport with persistent and life-altering CTE symptoms. Does that example thus prove that cis female athletes are more likely to have injuries inflicted upon them by other cis female athletes than by trans female athletes? Less likely? Equally likely?
In point of fact, it proves none of the above. Because it's just an anecdote. And anecdotes are not data. |
BIG difference, MULTIPLE hits to the head, not one massive blow ending her entire career in one shot as the two cis-girls took from trans girls. you are comparing apples to oranges here.
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Michael
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 01/08/24 11:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| ...there are not a lot of trans women in sports yet, but they do seem to be causing a number of injuries far in excess of their percentage of participation. Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls, especially the volleyball and field hockey injuries. |
*citation needed
(reminder: cherry-picked anecdotes are not a citation of data) |
Find me instances like these from Cis girls on cis girls, because I looked and I cannot. Injuries yes, this severity, no. |
I'm not gonna play dueling anecdotes with you, Michael. You're the one making these supposed declarations of objective fact ("Most of these injuries do not occur when its just cis-girls on cis-girls"), so you're the one who can prove your declarations, or not. |
AS I have said, I have looked and not found any. But I tell you what, if you can find similar injuries cis girls on cis girls in the last 5 years in hs volleyball and field hockey, I'll pull the thread and publicly apologize. I have checked and feel really safe that you won't find any. |
Ugh, fine. Here's an LA Times article from Dec. 2020 about a top-ranking Stanford WVB player who took multiple volleyball shots to the face from her (presumably cis) teammates in practices, and (presumably cis) opponents in games, resulting in multiple concussions that forced her to retire from the sport with persistent and life-altering CTE symptoms. Does that example thus prove that cis female athletes are more likely to have injuries inflicted upon them by other cis female athletes than by trans female athletes? Less likely? Equally likely?
In point of fact, it proves none of the above. Because it's just an anecdote. And anecdotes are not data. |
BIG difference, MULTIPLE hits to the head, not one massive blow ending her entire career in one shot as the two cis-girls took from trans girls. you are comparing apples to oranges here. |
Well, I happen to disagree that the respective anecdotes are particularly dissimilar, but again, that's ultimately immaterial, because they are all just anecdotes, and do not amount to evidence one way or the other. But the absence of evidence clearly does not dissuade you from believing what you wish to believe, so hey: don't let me stop you. As you were, Michael.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 01/08/24 11:10 pm ::: |
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| (Ummm....ima interject here that the Medical studies - see above - should carry more weight than anecdotal incidents)
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 01/08/24 11:35 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| (Ummm....ima interject here that the Medical studies - see above - should carry more weight than anecdotal incidents) |
It should! It just doesn't happen to demonstrate what Michael is claiming above (regarding the supposed rash of trans-on-cis athlete injuries).
| Howee wrote: |
| I can't imagine how this interest in sparing cis-girls is equivalent to wanting all trans girls to not exist. Maybe I'm an unrealistic optimist, but I still believe there is a broad middle ground between the 2 extremes: Affirming trans girls completely in every consequence of their choice vs. banning them from our society. And right now, it seems that "middle ground" is running right through the athletic fields and courts of our land. |
I'm not positive that "We accept your gender identity in lots of ways but just not these other ways" is the "middle ground" that you think it is, any more than "We accept your same-sex marriage as valid in these ways but not those other ways" amounted to an acceptable "middle ground" for marriage equality advocates. Given the incredibly high stakes involved in this particular issue, it's my own personal inclination to err on the side of acceptance.
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patsweetpat
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| Posted: 01/09/24 10:16 am ::: |
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I'm ducking back out of this conversation now. It was almost certainly a mistake for me to join it. I'll just say, on my way out the door, that our nation's history is shamefully littered with the suppression of stigmatized outgroups based on the argument that: "(STIGMATIZED GROUP) is a threat to our helpless and innocent daughters!" Typically that argument would be bolstered by cherry-picked anecdotes of brutalities allegedly inflicted by members of the outgroup... brutalities that would certainly become more frequent unless firm action is taken now to suppress said outgroup.
We don't tend to look back on the champions of the above argument as history's good guys.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 01/09/24 11:13 am ::: |
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Michael, you have yet to cite your sources on any of your anecdotes and until and unless you do, you are just BLOWING SMOKE and you know it. You persist in telling the same old stories day in and day out and they are getting old.
Trans people are less than 2% of the general population, and less than 1% of those playing sports. Just get over yourself.
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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| Posted: 01/09/24 11:51 am ::: |
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With the possibility of creating a competitive class solely for trans basically being panned as soon as this became a national topic, the only goal moving forward should be including as many people as possible and eliminating any competitive advantages a few individuals may have. Ensuring mtf trans individuals have advanced far enough into treatment to where the physiological benefits of their former biological identity are no longer present eliminates any current fear of cis women losing opportunities and suffering. Ensuring FTM trans individuals have advanced far enough in treatment to be closer to a physical level playing field eliminates concerns for their safety and longevity in sports.
I'm not sure I phrased that correctly, I'm not quite sure I used affirming enough language(not in a part of the country where affirming language is used), but there is quite easily a common ground solution to where everyone is protected and 90+% of trans people can find athletic homes in their new identity.
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okstateguy
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 01/09/24 3:03 pm ::: |
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Okay, i wanna put on my 'devil's advocate' hat here for a bit:
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| (Ummm....ima interject here that the Medical studies - see above - should carry more weight than anecdotal incidents) |
It should! It just doesn't happen to demonstrate what Michael is claiming above (regarding the supposed rash of trans-on-cis athlete injuries). |
While the NIH abstract doesn't mention specific cases like Michael did, it DOES clearly support the simple theory that M2F transition will inevitably create a distinct advantage for the trans woman, and implies that cases like Michael cited may be inevitable.
| Howee wrote: |
| I can't imagine how this interest in sparing cis-girls is equivalent to wanting all trans girls to not exist. Maybe I'm an unrealistic optimist, but I still believe there is a broad middle ground between the 2 extremes: Affirming trans girls completely in every consequence of their choice vs. banning them from our society. And right now, it seems that "middle ground" is running right through the athletic fields and courts of our land. |
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| I'm not positive that "We accept your gender identity in lots of ways but just not these other ways" is the "middle ground" that you think it is, any more than "We accept your same-sex marriage as valid in these ways but not those other ways" amounted to an acceptable "middle ground" for marriage equality advocates. |
mmm....not the most solid analogy. My full equality in marriage does not confer any *advantageous* rights over people who had those rights historically. I have not acquired a competitive edge over anyone.
These 'high stakes' are at the core of why ALL of us here feel that any/all trans people deserve affirmation and acceptance. But - take the trans girl who injured another girl in volleyball - is she not liable for some feelings of remorse or empathy for the kid she hurt? Or do we just say, "That's okay - you go, girl!"
By the way, with her (apparent) skill set, she most probably could be an asset to any high-school boys' team. It is NOT rare for skilled cis-girls to compete successfully on boys' teams in many sports. We had a girl here locally that competed nicely on a boys JV football team.
| patsweetpat wrote: |
| I'm ducking back out of this conversation now. It was almost certainly a mistake for me to join it. |
Unfortunate. Your choice, of course, but I've appreciated your insightful contributions here.
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"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 602
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| Posted: 01/09/24 3:47 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
With the possibility of creating a competitive class solely for trans basically being panned as soon as this became a national topic, the only goal moving forward should be including as many people as possible and eliminating any competitive advantages a few individuals may have. Ensuring mtf trans individuals have advanced far enough into treatment to where the physiological benefits of their former biological identity are no longer present eliminates any current fear of cis women losing opportunities and suffering. Ensuring FTM trans individuals have advanced far enough in treatment to be closer to a physical level playing field eliminates concerns for their safety and longevity in sports.
I'm not sure I phrased that correctly, I'm not quite sure I used affirming enough language(not in a part of the country where affirming language is used), but there is quite easily a common ground solution to where everyone is protected and 90+% of trans people can find athletic homes in their new identity. |
There will NEVER be a time when a trans woman who went through puberty as a male will ever not have a distinct physical advantage over cis women. No amount of time on testosterone blockers and estrogen will take away the increased muscle and bone density, height, and physical advantages in hip angle etc etc etc that the trans individual gained as a male.
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Michael
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 756
Location: Siege Perilous
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| Posted: 01/09/24 6:04 pm ::: |
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| For the last couple of years I've secretly been hoping that they trans the shit out of women's professional basketball. Imagine the NBA being the little brother in the ratings relationship with the WNBA!
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