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Ex-Ref
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 03/16/23 3:01 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35871473/notre-dame-star-olivia-miles-season-knee-injury |
WTG Notre Dame: withholding injury info to get a better seeding. Hope it bites them where it hurts...Stanford/Harvard...
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CBiebel
Joined: 23 Dec 2004
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| Posted: 03/16/23 4:22 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35871473/notre-dame-star-olivia-miles-season-knee-injury |
WTG Notre Dame: withholding injury info to get a better seeding. Hope it bites them where it hurts...Stanford/Harvard... |
Well, considering that they were placed in the South Carolina bracket and were set up to play Maryland in the Sweet Sixteen, I'm thinking the Committee basically was saying 'Okay, we're going to give you a #3 seed, but..."
Considering the way ND played without Miles in the 2nd half of the game at Louisville and against NC State in the ACCT, I think a repeat of Stanford/Harvard isn't likely. Southern Utah, Creighton, and Miss. State aren't exactly the rough defensive teams that Louisville is, and unlike with Stanford in 1999, ND has actually had some games to try to acclimate to the situation.
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
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| Posted: 03/16/23 5:16 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35871473/notre-dame-star-olivia-miles-season-knee-injury |
WTG Notre Dame: withholding injury info to get a better seeding. Hope it bites them where it hurts...Stanford/Harvard... |
Why do you hope it bites them? If you were a coach and knew the committee would hold the injury against your team in terms of seeding in the NCAA tourney, you wouldn't withhold the information?
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 03/16/23 5:40 pm ::: |
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| Best wishes to Olivia on a successful recovery.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 03/16/23 5:48 pm ::: |
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| I hope she has surgery if it's needed rather than just 'hoping' that it won't need it in the future.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/16/23 5:52 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| duplicate
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 03/16/23 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 03/16/23 5:52 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| PG4ever wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35871473/notre-dame-star-olivia-miles-season-knee-injury |
WTG Notre Dame: withholding injury info to get a better seeding. Hope it bites them where it hurts...Stanford/Harvard... |
Why do you hope it bites them? If you were a coach and knew the committee would hold the injury against your team in terms of seeding in the NCAA tourney, you wouldn't withhold the information? |
'Cause she's a bitter classless troll, that's why.
I also can't figure out why someone thinks Stanford "bit" themselves by withholding the information. Are they saying that Stanford would have been better off disclosing its injuries and getting a lower seed and therefore been paired with an even more difficult opponent than Harvard? And that would have been better for them? How stupid can one get.
In his bracketology, Creme has had ND in S Carolina's bracket for most of the past month. The notion that the Committee was going to put them elsewhere but purposely moved them to have to face SCar as "punishment" is just absurd QAnon-quality nonsense.
It also requires assuming that ND made Miles sit around against her wishes and NOT get surgery for two weeks while in pain just so they could hide the injury. Maybe Duke would do that to one of their players, but I don't believe Niele Ivey would.
The FAR FAR more likely reality, considering Miles hyper-competitive nature, is that she was doing everything humanly possible to put herself in a position to physically play in the Tournament. But then as the tournament approached the doctors told her and her parents "no way".
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/16/23 5:54 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| I hope she has surgery if it's needed rather than just 'hoping' that it won't need it in the future. |
I've seen a report that she's scheduled for surgery next week, and hopes to be back for Summer drills (maybe that's wishful thinking, or maybe that suggests it's not an ACL tear).
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 03/16/23 6:17 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| PG4ever wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35871473/notre-dame-star-olivia-miles-season-knee-injury |
WTG Notre Dame: withholding injury info to get a better seeding. Hope it bites them where it hurts...Stanford/Harvard... |
Why do you hope it bites them? If you were a coach and knew the committee would hold the injury against your team in terms of seeding in the NCAA tourney, you wouldn't withhold the information? |
'Cause she's a bitter classless troll, that's why.
I also can't figure out why someone thinks Stanford "bit" themselves by withholding the information. Are they saying that Stanford would have been better off disclosing its injuries and getting a lower seed and therefore been paired with an even more difficult opponent than Harvard? And that would have been better for them? How stupid can one get.
In his bracketology, Creme has had ND in S Carolina's bracket for most of the past month. The notion that the Committee was going to put them elsewhere but purposely moved them to have to face SCar as "punishment" is just absurd QAnon-quality nonsense.
It also requires assuming that ND made Miles sit around against her wishes and NOT get surgery for two weeks while in pain just so they could hide the injury. Maybe Duke would do that to one of their players, but I don't believe Niele Ivey would.
The FAR FAR more likely reality, considering Miles hyper-competitive nature, is that she was doing everything humanly possible to put herself in a position to physically play in the Tournament. But then as the tournament approached the doctors told her and her parents "no way". |
Seeding is all about who is most likely - based on past performance AND current circumstance - to win games. A team down 1-2 key players due to injury is less likely to win and should be seeded accordingly. The committee SPECIFICALLY looks at injury status, so withholding injury status is disrupting the process. As a 3 seed, ND is up against weaker teams than if they were seeded based on correct injury status. But it sets them up to be upset by a "weaker" team that is healthy, which would be how they can get bit by trying to game the system.
Believe it or not, I am a BIG Olivia Miles fan. Just like I was a BIG Alyssa Thomas fan when Maryland was our conference rival. You can ask Brenda's husband Mark and he will attest that at the ACC tournament, I was all about Alyssa (and he was all about Chelsea). Some players are just so special that they overcome all rivalry feelings and Olivia is one of those. It SUCKS majorly that she can't play and we are all deprived of seeing what she and her team could do in the NCAA.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 03/16/23 6:29 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| PG4ever wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/35871473/notre-dame-star-olivia-miles-season-knee-injury |
WTG Notre Dame: withholding injury info to get a better seeding. Hope it bites them where it hurts...Stanford/Harvard... |
Why do you hope it bites them? If you were a coach and knew the committee would hold the injury against your team in terms of seeding in the NCAA tourney, you wouldn't withhold the information? |
'Cause she's a bitter classless troll, that's why.
I also can't figure out why someone thinks Stanford "bit" themselves by withholding the information. Are they saying that Stanford would have been better off disclosing its injuries and getting a lower seed and therefore been paired with an even more difficult opponent than Harvard? And that would have been better for them? How stupid can one get.
In his bracketology, Creme has had ND in S Carolina's bracket for most of the past month. The notion that the Committee was going to put them elsewhere but purposely moved them to have to face SCar as "punishment" is just absurd QAnon-quality nonsense.
It also requires assuming that ND made Miles sit around against her wishes and NOT get surgery for two weeks while in pain just so they could hide the injury. Maybe Duke would do that to one of their players, but I don't believe Niele Ivey would.
The FAR FAR more likely reality, considering Miles hyper-competitive nature, is that she was doing everything humanly possible to put herself in a position to physically play in the Tournament. But then as the tournament approached the doctors told her and her parents "no way". |
Seeding is all about who is most likely - based on past performance AND current circumstance - to win games. A team down 1-2 key players due to injury is less likely to win and should be seeded accordingly. The committee SPECIFICALLY looks at injury status, so withholding injury status is disrupting the process. As a 3 seed, ND is up against weaker teams than if they were seeded based on correct injury status. But it sets them up to be upset by a "weaker" team that is healthy, which would be how they can get bit by trying to game the system.
Believe it or not, I am a BIG Olivia Miles fan. Just like I was a BIG Alyssa Thomas fan when Maryland was our conference rival. You can ask Brenda's husband Mark and he will attest that at the ACC tournament, I was all about Alyssa (and he was all about Chelsea). Some players are just so special that they overcome all rivalry feelings and Olivia is one of those. It SUCKS majorly that she can't play and we are all deprived of seeing what she and her team could do in the NCAA. |
Just think...if Stanford hadn't been seeded 1 and instead lost to a 13 or 14 seed. Or they won a game and then lost to a higher seed. NOBODY would be talking about it because the injuries made them less likely to win games, which is exactly why they should have been seeded lower. Just like ND this year.
Seriously, does anybody think ND without Olivia and Dara is going to a FF? Seriously?
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~rAf
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 03/16/23 6:38 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Seriously, does anybody think ND without Olivia and Dara is going to a FF? Seriously? |
Who said anything about FF?
A 3 seed is only expected to get out of the first weekend, then lose their next game to a 2 seed.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/16/23 6:45 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| Man-I hope that's not an ACL. I'm hoping since she was walking around at the ACC tournament sans brace and crutches that it wasn't that, but you just never know. What a tough break for her; injuries suck.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/16/23 7:11 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| Man-I hope that's not an ACL. I'm hoping since she was walking around at the ACC tournament sans brace and crutches that it wasn't that, but you just never know. What a tough break for her; injuries suck. |
Yes they do.
And as I recounted in another thread, this is the 4th time a highly rated ND team has lost a key player to injury immediately before or during the NCAA Tournament. Ivey, Achonwa, Turner and now Miles.
All injuries suck. Bad timing just exacerbates the disappointment for the team, the fans and especially to the player. I'm sure no one is more disappointed than Olivia.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: New York
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| Posted: 03/16/23 7:44 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| Man-I hope that's not an ACL. I'm hoping since she was walking around at the ACC tournament sans brace and crutches that it wasn't that, but you just never know. What a tough break for her; injuries suck. |
Yes they do.
And as I recounted in another thread, this is the 4th time a highly rated ND team has lost a key player to injury immediately before or during the NCAA Tournament. Ivey, Achonwa, Turner and now Miles.
All injuries suck. Bad timing just exacerbates the disappointment for the team, the fans and especially to the player. I'm sure no one is more disappointed than Olivia. |
I don't follow ND so much, is there another PG on the roster or is it all on Citron now?
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/16/23 7:53 pm ::: |
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I think I it was pretty classless to play coy on the injury until after the seeds and brackets were set. That said, I wish Olivia all the best on her surgery and rehab.
To answer ucbart’s question, I think Citron is it and after her it’s PG any committee. Art can correct me if I’m wrong.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 03/16/23 8:03 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
I think I it was pretty classless to play coy on the injury until after the seeds and brackets were set. That said, I wish Olivia all the best on her surgery and rehab.
To answer ucbart’s question, I think Citron is it and after her it’s PG any committee. Art can correct me if I’m wrong. |
Jenna Brown has played point. I think that it will mostly be Citron.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/16/23 8:03 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| Man-I hope that's not an ACL. I'm hoping since she was walking around at the ACC tournament sans brace and crutches that it wasn't that, but you just never know. What a tough break for her; injuries suck. |
Yes they do.
And as I recounted in another thread, this is the 4th time a highly rated ND team has lost a key player to injury immediately before or during the NCAA Tournament. Ivey, Achonwa, Turner and now Miles.
All injuries suck. Bad timing just exacerbates the disappointment for the team, the fans and especially to the player. I'm sure no one is more disappointed than Olivia. |
I don't follow ND so much, is there another PG on the roster or is it all on Citron now? |
I don't think we know what they've worked on in the past two weeks, but I think the most likely is that Citron will be the primary point guard, spelled by freshman KK Bransford and Jenna Brown (Stanford transfer). Westbeld will also handle the ball in the even of a press.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 03/16/23 8:05 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Seriously, does anybody think ND without Olivia and Dara is going to a FF? Seriously? |
Who said anything about FF?
A 3 seed is only expected to get out of the first weekend, then lose their next game to a 2 seed. |
They are a 3 seed because of the entire season while how far they go in the dance is more a matter of how they are playing right now. There is no assumption that the higher seed wins. Last year a 2 seed beat two 1 seeds, back to back.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/16/23 8:09 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
I think I it was pretty classless to play coy on the injury until after the seeds and brackets were set. That said, I wish Olivia all the best on her surgery and rehab.
To answer ucbart’s question, I think Citron is it and after her it’s PG any committee. Art can correct me if I’m wrong. |
The only thing here that's "pretty classless" is for some clown on the internet who doesn't know a damn thing about the nature or extent of the injury, the results of the MRIs, the diagnoses of the orthopedists, the efforts that were made by the player, the trainers, the doctors and the physical therapists over the past two weeks to see if she could contribute during the tournament, or when the decision was made by the player, her parents, the doctors and the team to end her season, to keep droning on with snide, ignorant, trolling fantasies about how things transpired.
There, I corrected you because you're wrong.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 03/16/23 8:13 pm ::: |
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How NDame acted isn't the issue here, it's how the committee acted. In her 90 second "interview" the chair said they had to assume that Miles was available since the team was silent. The fact is that Miles was "out/ injured" in the ACC tournament and so her default status should have been "out, injured" and the onus should have been on NDame to change that.
Hell, if Geno hadn't publicly said that Bueckers was out for the season would the committee assume she was available and seed UConn accordingly? No, that's ridiculous. But isn't that what they did here?
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Fighting Artichoke
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 03/16/23 8:15 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| Man-I hope that's not an ACL. I'm hoping since she was walking around at the ACC tournament sans brace and crutches that it wasn't that, but you just never know. What a tough break for her; injuries suck. |
Yes they do.
And as I recounted in another thread, this is the 4th time a highly rated ND team has lost a key player to injury immediately before or during the NCAA Tournament. Ivey, Achonwa, Turner and now Miles.
All injuries suck. Bad timing just exacerbates the disappointment for the team, the fans and especially to the player. I'm sure no one is more disappointed than Olivia. |
I don't follow ND so much, is there another PG on the roster or is it all on Citron now? |
PG Jenna Brown arrived from Stanford over the summer through the portal but whether due to injury (she was wearing a knee brace all year) or simply subpar play, she hasn't played well enough to earn minutes. Jenna has appeared in 23 of Notre Dame's 30 games this season, only averaging 8.4 minutes/game with just under 1 assist/game (and an assist/turnover ratio of just over 1). Since Miles injury (3 games), she has totaled only 19 minutes, contributing 2 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists and 6 turnovers.
Citron is a 6'1" sophomore wing and is not even close to a PG, but she makes good decisions. The only other guards on the team besides Brown are freshman KK Bransford and early enrollee Cassandre Prosper. Notre Dame really only goes 6 deep now, as Nat Marshall, Jenna Brown and the walk-on don't play many minutes. Besides the frontcourt of Kylee Watson, Lauren Ebo and Maddie Westbeld, all the Irish have are Citron, Bransford and Prosper.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/16/23 8:27 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
How NDame acted isn't the issue here, it's how the committee acted. In her 90 second "interview" the chair said they had to assume that Miles was available since the team was silent. The fact is that Miles was "out/ injured" in the ACC tournament and so her default status should have been "out, injured" and the onus should have been on NDame to change that.
Hell, if Geno hadn't publicly said that Bueckers was out for the season would the committee assume she was available and seed UConn accordingly? No, that's ridiculous. But isn't that what they did here? |
So by your "logic" every team should have to provide a sworn affidavit with supporting medical documentation to the committee for every one of their players to "prove" that they are healthy and available to play in the tournament.
To my knowledge, there is no requirement for ND or any other team to provide any injury report. This isn't the NFL. And why should a player who misses TWO GAMES be assumed to be out for the season and unable to return after a two week layoff?
I don't know why anyone questions that the decision regarding Miles's status hadn't been made until the last couple of days. If the injury was nearly as bad as some people seem to fantasize, she would have had surgery ten days ago. But it's pretty obvious that Miles wanted to see if she could still go, it turned out she couldn't, they just made the decision this week, and they scheduled her for surgery next week.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/16/23 8:42 pm ::: Re: Miles Out for Season |
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| Fighting Artichoke wrote: |
Citron is a 6'1" sophomore wing and is not even close to a PG, |
I think that gives her too little credit. She hasn't played PG for ND because she hasn't had to, but I believe she was considered a combo guard coming out of high school and some early recruiting stuff even referred to her as a point guard.
Is she another Olivia Miles? I doubt it. But she's not a fish out of water at the position either.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 03/16/23 9:17 pm ::: |
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| If ND was trying to be deceitful and hide the injury, they wouldn't have said anything today. They would have continued to say she was day-to-day, and make their opponents waste some practice time planning for the possibility of Miles playing.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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