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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Location: Where the action is
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 Posted: 12/09/22 10:56 am ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
| It appears her hair was cut when she was moved to the penal colony. |
According to TJ Quinn of ESPN
https://twitter.com/TJQuinnESPN/status/1601225211147276291
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| Griner’s lawyer tells me BG cut her hair famous two Sundays ago. Every time she washed it it would freeze, and she decided she didn’t want to deal with it for an entire Russian winter. And she was prepared to be there for a while. |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/09/22 11:05 am ::: |
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Not entering the fray on either side of any of this. But happy BG is home and won’t be spending the next nine years in a gulag.
Just came here for the purpose of sharing with the group some (unconfirmed) information that’s floating around Twitter regarding Whelan. Copy and pasted.
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Paul Whelan was court-martialed and dishonorably discharged for larceny, dereliction(s) of duty, lying, using someone else's social security number, and writing 10 bad checks.
He’s also an Irish citizen, British citizen, and Canadian Citizen. He is a corporate security manager who had $80k and met with Russian who gave him a USB drive with the names of security employees?
According to Court Martial records, Paul Whelan received a bad-conduct discharge from the US Marines in 2008 and his rank was reduced to that of corporal when he was found guilty of bouncing checks and the attempted theft of $10,000 during a tour in Iraq.
His military downfall still sounds like a backstory for a spy. Let’s get him out, yet he is charged with espionage. Just sayin.
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I agree with the last statement but who knows._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 12/09/22 12:33 pm ::: |
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| The last thing I want is this to become mud slinging to defend either party. I don't care what Whelen did. I didn't care what BG did. They were and are political hostages and will unfortunately face the scrutiny of domestic political hostility. There is nothing pleasant or easy about these decisions but this is where we are.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 12/09/22 12:55 pm ::: |
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| if it took a guy known as the Merchant of Death to get an American low-tier/borderline celebrity out of Russia for possession of the equivalent of a few vape pens, I can't imagine what it would take to re-secure a former US Marine charged with espionage
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 12/09/22 4:31 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| if it took a guy known as the Merchant of Death to get an American low-tier/borderline celebrity out of Russia for possession of the equivalent of a few vape pens, I can't imagine what it would take to re-secure a former US Marine charged with espionage |
It didn't happen in a vacuum though. Russia leveraged the Biden administration's desperation to appease domestic pressure, which inflated BG's value and allowed for Russia to demand Bout in return.
Also, it's been pretty clear Russia isn't all that interested in a swap for Whelan. We may not have anything they'd swap for.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 12/09/22 4:40 pm ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| if it took a guy known as the Merchant of Death to get an American low-tier/borderline celebrity out of Russia for possession of the equivalent of a few vape pens, I can't imagine what it would take to re-secure a former US Marine charged with espionage |
It didn't happen in a vacuum though. Russia leveraged the Biden administration's desperation to appease domestic pressure, which inflated BG's value and allowed for Russia to demand Bout in return.
Also, it's been pretty clear Russia isn't all that interested in a swap for Whelan. We may not have anything they'd swap for. |
all true. though the basic point still stands that Whelan is valued differently than BG and so has proven harder to get out of Russia than BG.
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johnjohnW
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/10/22 9:49 am ::: |
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I love how Kim's remarks on a summer podcast about BG were totally ignored to fir this narrative of her being silent about it. Fans, players, journalists, and a host of other people fell for the twitter mob and their shenanigans.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 12/10/22 10:48 am ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
I love how Kim's remarks on a summer podcast about BG were totally ignored to fir this narrative of her being silent about it. Fans, players, journalists, and a host of other people fell for the twitter mob and their shenanigans. |
I honestly didn't know about the podcast comments either. She did say in the press conference that got all the headlines that she wasn't going to comment on it. She could have said she's already made a statement and deferred to her previous comments. Still, it would have been nice for some due diligence by the journalists.
Twitter mobs are trash. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
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| Posted: 12/10/22 5:05 pm ::: |
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I think her alleged silence helped fit the narrative of the break in their relationship. It is unfortunate that her earlier comments were never as well publicized as her statements about not wanting to make a statement.
At the same time, social media almost compels folks to comment about everything that happens. There are folks who seem to make it mandatory, when it's not. It is not necessary to respond publicly to every single thing that happens! Some people are more extroverted while others are introverted in their reactions. Just because a public figure (the definition of which gets blurrier over time) does not make a statement about a situation doesn't mean they don't care, or that something is wrong with them. That's got to be a lot of pressure to feel that compulsion - which is why so many have been caught saying something crazy in the heat of the moment that they either retract or double down on.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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| Posted: 12/11/22 11:09 am ::: |
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| The NYTimes is behind a paywall. If you can gift it, it would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Bob Lamm
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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| Posted: 12/11/22 1:31 pm ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
Also, it's been pretty clear Russia isn't all that interested in a swap for Whelan. We may not have anything they'd swap for. |
We do, but it's a price we or our allies have been unwilling to pay so far, like Krasikov held in Germany.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 12/11/22 2:39 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| the cesspool that is Twitter - now taken over by a jillionaire with the social conscience of a slug |
& that’s putting it mildly. i really hope twitter ends up dying as was rumored last month. otherwise its new owner will make it into an even more toxic let alone downright dangerous environment as the days go by.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 12/11/22 3:30 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| the cesspool that is Twitter - now taken over by a jillionaire with the social conscience of a slug |
& that’s putting it mildly. i really hope twitter ends up dying as was rumored last month. otherwise its new owner will make it into an even more toxic let alone downright dangerous environment as the days go by. |
Twitter democratized intellectual thought but the problem is not everyone is an intellectual. I came from an academia background and have no involvement in that world anymore but the common denominator and Twitter user distorts academic and intellectual thought without the nuance or capacity for critical thinking. Twitter mobs bastardize great ideas that aren't meant to fit into the length of a tweet.
Case in point, "Defund The Police" is a compelling ideological proposal but is far more complicated than a slogan or a tweet from someone who doesn't truly understand the ideas behind the slogan. So it cuts both ways that those against the idea intentionally misrepresent the concept and those whose minds may be coming from the right place do damage to the concept with their I'll thought out tweets.
Anyway, I'm just glad BG is home. It wasn't a perfect process but I'm glad she's home and safe.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 12/11/22 6:02 pm ::: |
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Brittney wants to talk.
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“I have been in prison for 10 months now, listening to Russian. I want to talk,” Griner said, according to Roger Carstens, the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs, who helped secure the basketball star’s release and bring her back to the U.S. last week. She then asked Carstens, referring to others on the plane: “But, first of all, who are these guys?”
“And she moved right past me and went to every member on that crew, looked them in the eyes, shook their hands and asked about them, got their names, making a personal connection with them.,” Carstens recalled. “It was really amazing.” |
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| “I was left with the impression this is an intelligent, passionate, compassionate, humble, interesting person, a patriotic person,” Carstens said. “But above all, authentic. I hate the fact that I had to meet her in this manner, but I actually felt blessed having had a chance to get to know her.” |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2022/12/11/brittney-griner-release-freed-from-russia-opened-up/10878549002/
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 12/11/22 8:03 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Brittney wants to talk.
| Quote: |
“I have been in prison for 10 months now, listening to Russian. I want to talk,” Griner said, according to Roger Carstens, the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs, who helped secure the basketball star’s release and bring her back to the U.S. last week. She then asked Carstens, referring to others on the plane: “But, first of all, who are these guys?”
“And she moved right past me and went to every member on that crew, looked them in the eyes, shook their hands and asked about them, got their names, making a personal connection with them.,” Carstens recalled. “It was really amazing.” |
| Quote: |
| “I was left with the impression this is an intelligent, passionate, compassionate, humble, interesting person, a patriotic person,” Carstens said. “But above all, authentic. I hate the fact that I had to meet her in this manner, but I actually felt blessed having had a chance to get to know her.” |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2022/12/11/brittney-griner-release-freed-from-russia-opened-up/10878549002/ |
Thanks for posting this. So moving.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 12/11/22 11:51 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Brittney wants to talk.
| Quote: |
“I have been in prison for 10 months now, listening to Russian. I want to talk,” Griner said, according to Roger Carstens, the special presidential envoy for hostage affairs, who helped secure the basketball star’s release and bring her back to the U.S. last week. She then asked Carstens, referring to others on the plane: “But, first of all, who are these guys?”
“And she moved right past me and went to every member on that crew, looked them in the eyes, shook their hands and asked about them, got their names, making a personal connection with them.,” Carstens recalled. “It was really amazing.” |
| Quote: |
| “I was left with the impression this is an intelligent, passionate, compassionate, humble, interesting person, a patriotic person,” Carstens said. “But above all, authentic. I hate the fact that I had to meet her in this manner, but I actually felt blessed having had a chance to get to know her.” |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2022/12/11/brittney-griner-release-freed-from-russia-opened-up/10878549002/ |
Thanks for posting this. So moving. |
I wish that there was more of what she was saying in the article. . And I just love that pic of her. There is a child-like innocence with some playfulness mixed in.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 12/12/22 7:39 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| if it took a guy known as the Merchant of Death to get an American low-tier/borderline celebrity out of Russia for possession of the equivalent of a few vape pens, I can't imagine what it would take to re-secure a former US Marine charged with espionage |
Read somewhere that Russia wants a spy held in Germany released for Whelan. This then begs the question of what does Germany want?
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 12/13/22 2:17 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| if it took a guy known as the Merchant of Death to get an American low-tier/borderline celebrity out of Russia for possession of the equivalent of a few vape pens, I can't imagine what it would take to re-secure a former US Marine charged with espionage |
According to John Bolton, who was the National Security Advisor at the time, the Trump administration rejected Russia's offer to swap Whelan for Bout.
https://nypost.com/2022/12/08/trump-turned-down-viktor-bout-for-paul-whelan-prisoner-swap-john-bolton/ |
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 12/13/22 2:34 am ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
Paul Whelan was court-martialed and dishonorably discharged for larceny, dereliction(s) of duty, lying, using someone else's social security number, and writing 10 bad checks.
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Not quite correct. He was not convicted of larceny and was not dishonorably discharged. He was convicted of attempted larceny and received a bad-conduct discharge, which is less severe a dishonorable discharge.
How about folks do research beyond Twitter. Here is a quote from Whelan's actual military appeals court decision:
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A military judge sitting as a special court martial convicted the appellant [Paul N. Whelan], consistent with his pleas, of attempted larceny, three specifications of dereliction of duty, making a false official statement, wrongfully using another's social security number, and ten specifications of making and uttering checks without having sufficient funds in his account for payment . . . . He was sentenced to 60 days restriction, reduction to pay grade E-4, and a bad-conduct discharge.
. . . we affirm the findings and the sentence as approved by the convening authority. |
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) will inevitably lead to a descent into the lowest common denominator; anyone who is the target of Twitter mobs, cancel culture, etc., cannot cry foul if they willingly dipped in the cesspool.
