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GEF34
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GEF34
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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 Posted: 10/26/22 1:24 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| Stanford is basically a unanimous pick by both the media and coaches to win the Pac-12 as the only vote they didn't receive is Tara Vanderveer's as she can't vote for own team. |
so instead she gives her 1st-place vote to Utah, which is quite literally a choice
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 10/26/22 5:34 pm ::: |
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https://youtu.be/uGcE8Tafz2Q
More/Continued PG duties for Haley Jones (she probably starts there)
Sounds like we’ll see Cameron Brink play some SF as a result of all the post talent VanDerveer wants to utilize on Stanford’s roster this year
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 10/26/22 5:53 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
https://youtu.be/uGcE8Tafz2Q
More/Continued PG duties for Haley Jones (she probably starts there)
Sounds like we’ll see Cameron Brink play some SF as a result of all the post talent VanDerveer wants to utilize on Stanford’s roster this year |
yeah, they're pretty much convinced over on the Stanford boards, that Haley will start at PG. Means we will be pressed by everybody who can do so. But if we get down the floor, all that size will be difficult to defend. Quick little guards will give us trouble on the other end, especially if they can shoot threes.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 10/27/22 6:13 pm ::: |
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I thought of these before this week’s Media Day, so after some slight modifications, here are the Biggest Questions I have for each team:
—Stanford: What kind of PG play will this team get this year? Is Haley Jones gonna just come into her own there or will she eventually have to get back to being a big wing? If the latter, which other player(s) could Tara VanDerveer potentially turn to at a later ~*point*~ in the season? There’s talent, depth, and especially size on this roster like never before; but the PG play the Cardinal get this season will determine where they are in the National Title Contender pecking order.
—Arizona: Can the Wildcats put it all together by finishing first in the Pac and winning their first Title? There’s more overall talent, depth, and arguably experience on this roster for Adia Barnes to work with than there was in their National Championship game two Tourneys ago against the team above…
—Oregon: Even without Sedona Prince, can it still be business as usual for Oregon? The Ducks still have size on the roster, even if now they’ll be super young & inexperienced in the frontcourt. The loss of Prince is a significant setback that follows an offseason filled with players leaving the program, but the Ducks still have the ability to finish in second place if experienced guards like Te-Hina Paopao and Endyia Rogers stay healthy and step up their games.
—UCLA: Will Cori Close be able to keep her heralded freshmen class together? There are enough starting-caliber returners on this Bruins team where more freshmen than not will likely be coming off the bench, if they're even in the rotation. With multiple graduations after this season, the minutes will be there eventually for the young ones – just maybe not now (with the clear exception of Kiki Rice). But the impatient ones may not wanna wait that long...
—Oregon State: Can Scott Rueck refocus the defense? The Beavs' slow, defense-oriented style of play has gotten away from them in recent seasons, and perhaps as a result, they haven't done as well. Their overall success probably hinges on the talented freshmen who should be able to find some minutes.
—Utah: What can Alissa Pili add to this group? What does the one-time Pac-12 Freshman of the Year have left in the tank? The Utes should be Dance-bound again even if she doesn’t contribute much; but if she integrates well, how much could she raise this group's ceiling?
—Colorado: What’s the best way for the Buffs to seamlessly replace Mya Hollingshed? A more utilized Quay Miller? Arizona transfer Aaronette Vonleh adding a boost? More of a focus on guardplay? There are options, but JR Payne will have to settle on the right one(s) and not take too long to do so to get back to the Big Dance.
—Washington State: Has this team already peaked? Charlisse Leger-Walker was less efficient last season, her sister running the point alongside her has graduated, and Kamie Ethridge didn't make any obvious legit upgrades to this roster. After these past two nearly unprecedented seasons, the Cougs still haven't actually won an NCAA Tourney game – ever.
—USC: Is it actually a good thing that this is darn near a new-look group? Several good players either graduated or unexpectedly transferred out last spring, but maybe a fresh start (including players transferring in) will be good for the Trojans. If nothing else, Rayah Marshall is back and should be surrounded by a bevy of vets.
—California: Who'll be the second option on this team after Jayda Curry? An improved Evelien Lutje Schipholt? A transfer? A freshman? Someone else? It would be good for both the team as well as Curry's development if a fellow Bear or two, whom Charmin Smith could get Curry to distribute to when necessary, were able to step up.
—Washington: Is Dalayah Daniels cut out to be the first option on this team? which was something these Huskies really lacked last year, hence the lack of wins. If not Daniels, maybe it could be another newcomer to the roster. There’s still no true PG on this roster (yet), but without a legit first option, it’ll be more of the same this year for sure.
—Arizona State: Was Natasha Adair the right choice for this job? Coming from Delaware, she'll need to figure out how to establish connections here on the west coast, and fast. Even Charli Turner Thorne who was here for a quarter of a century could never get the high-end recruits to come here (assuming that was even a priority of hers, of course). I guess, enjoy the journey of a rebuild in the meantime, Sun Devils.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 11/04/22 7:20 pm ::: |
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I can address at least 2 of the questions:
| Quote: |
| —Stanford: What kind of PG play will this team get this year? Is Haley Jones gonna just come into her own there or will she eventually have to get back to being a big wing? If the latter, which other player(s) could Tara VanDerveer potentially turn to at a later ~*point*~ in the season? There’s talent, depth, and especially size on this roster like never before; but the PG play the Cardinal get this season will determine where they are in the National Title Contender pecking order. |
I watched their exhibition game with Vanguard. Yes, it was just Vanguard. BUT. I was uber impressed with their forecourt! #1 recruit Lauren Betz IS ALL THAT. She is very college-ready. Add to that the experience of Miss Brink and a (greatly!) improved Miss Prechtal, and I propose they represent The Best Frontcourt in D1. Guards? Yep. Big concern, however (if you saw the game) it's safe to say Tara has some HIGH caliber talent to develop there. Haley is as good a court leader as she's ever been; I was also quite impressed with several of her new girls, and Hannah Jump was looking great, too. I missed seeing the Hull girls playing - that's a lotta 'hustlengutz' Tara lost there. Personally, I do believe they may hit #1 soon. Can't wait to see the SC/Stanford matchup in the OOC play.
.......
| Quote: |
| —Oregon: Even without Sedona Prince, can it still be business as usual for Oregon? The Ducks still have size on the roster, even if now they’ll be super young & inexperienced in the frontcourt. The loss of Prince is a significant setback that follows an offseason filled with players leaving the program, but the Ducks still have the ability to finish in second place if experienced guards like Te-Hina Paopao and Endyia Rogers stay healthy and step up their games. |
Haven't seen her yet, but I have it from a reliable source that freshman VanSlooten is QUITE good, and Rogers is in great form. Kyei may start as the 5, at least to begin with (I really hope her international experience this summer comes shining through), and yes, there are some other nice bigs to help out.
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myrtle
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| Posted: 11/04/22 7:58 pm ::: |
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| ASU always puzzled me. You would think the climate would be a draw for good players. I think CTT's style of play - her platooning players in and out drove me crazy - would put off top recruits, who would rarely be given enough time on the floor to actually shine.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 11/04/22 9:53 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| ASU always puzzled me. You would think the climate would be a draw for good players. I think CTT's style of play - her platooning players in and out drove me crazy - would put off top recruits, who would rarely be given enough time on the floor to actually shine. |
As mentioned above, you do wonder if CTT’s style of play scared off top recruits, or if her recruiting philosophy was such that she simply focused on securing more of the gettable borderline-4-star, Top-100-optional prospects. Briann January was the only legit WNBA player she produced.
For Natasha Adair, we’ll see how long Jasmine Dickey can stay afloat in the W, but at least she’s a very recent product of development. At a glance, Adair’s style seems to be more conventional fwiw, as she played 8-10 players last year in any average game but still while giving her starters lots of minutes. As for the recruiting piece which is probably the most important one here, it seemed like ASU got players from a few different places – west coast, Midwest, Canada – but not the east coast. Adair’s coaching staff is all east-coasters – if she wanted to kickstart planting her roots west, she maybe would’ve had a west-based AC/Recruiting Coordinator. (That’s what Tina Langley did here at UW after coming from Texas, and it’s already paying off imo.) So I’m not sure when or even if this’ll all work out for Adair – I’m not too optimistic at this point – but we’ll see.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/05/22 8:04 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| ASU always puzzled me. You would think the climate would be a draw for good players. I think CTT's style of play - her platooning players in and out drove me crazy - would put off top recruits, who would rarely be given enough time on the floor to actually shine. |
As mentioned above, you do wonder if CTT’s style of play scared off top recruits, or if her recruiting philosophy was such that she simply focused on securing more of the gettable borderline-4-star, Top-100-optional prospects. Briann January was the only legit WNBA player she produced.
For Natasha Adair, we’ll see how long Jasmine Dickey can stay afloat in the W, but at least she’s a very recent product of development. At a glance, Adair’s style seems to be more conventional fwiw, as she played 8-10 players last year in any average game but still while giving her starters lots of minutes. As for the recruiting piece which is probably the most important one here, it seemed like ASU got players from a few different places – west coast, Midwest, Canada – but not the east coast. Adair’s coaching staff is all east-coasters – if she wanted to kickstart planting her roots west, she maybe would’ve had a west-based AC/Recruiting Coordinator. (That’s what Tina Langley did here at UW after coming from Texas, and it’s already paying off imo.) So I’m not sure when or even if this’ll all work out for Adair – I’m not too optimistic at this point – but we’ll see. |
Ok-here me out. I know this might make me sound crazy, but I think that schools that have apparel contracts with Adidas, unless they're super elite in their respective sport, will have a hard time getting kids to go there. What brands kids wear has always been a very big deal(I still love my 1992 United Colors of Benetton rugby). Couple that, with CTT's style, and I think it could go together. Her best team, with January in 2009, was when ASU was still a Nike school.
Louisville will never have a hard time recruiting even though they wear Adidas because Walz and the program are elite. Same with Nebraska volleyball. Nike and Under Armour are just way cooler brands and kids recognize that. I know if I was a coach looking to jump to a P5 job, I'd take the one with a little less pay that has a Nike/UA contract.
Adidas is just not what kids want to wear in college.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 11/05/22 10:45 am ::: |
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But as you say, if Louisville can succeed at a high level with Adidas, why couldn’t another school? Sort of undercutting your own argument, no?
I don’t disagree that more people probably like Nike or UA more than Adidas in general, but that doesn’t mean all the elite players every year will like them over Adidas, or that a school’s sponsored brand is for sure a dealbreaker in their process over choosing a school.
I’ll use Washington as an example again: We’ve been an Adidas school since 2018, and since Tina Langley took the helm in the spring of 2021, we’re about to have two Top-15 recruiting classes in a row. Recruiting in wbb has never been better since the Kelsey Plum days. (And our football program has been doing just fine on the field recently, fwiw.) So I’d like to think the coaching staff who’s doing the recruiting plays the biggest part in getting talented kids to come there, and that a school’s sponsored brand – while sometimes a dealbreaker – is still secondary in general.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 11/05/22 11:19 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
But as you say, if Louisville can succeed at a high level with Adidas, why couldn’t another school? Sort of undercutting your own argument, no?
I don’t disagree that more people probably like Nike or UA more than Adidas in general, but that doesn’t mean all the elite players every year will like them over Adidas, or that a school’s sponsored brand is for sure a dealbreaker in their process over choosing a school.
I’ll use Washington as an example again: We’ve been an Adidas school since 2018, and since Tina Langley took the helm in the spring of 2021, we’re about to have two Top-15 recruiting classes in a row. Recruiting in wbb has never been better since the Kelsey Plum days. (And our football program has been doing just fine on the field recently, fwiw.) So I’d like to think the coaching staff who’s doing the recruiting plays the biggest part in getting talented kids to come there, and that a school’s sponsored brand – while sometimes a dealbreaker – is still secondary in general. |
Because Walz is an elite coach/recruiter, who can do those things despite being an Adidas school.
As for Washington, good for them. But I bet it would be a lot easier to get top-10 recruiting classes if they stayed with Nike. I'm not saying this is the entire reason, bu tI bet it's a big part of it.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 11/05/22 12:05 pm ::: |
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Again, that doesn't mean it's impossible to build a good program. Maybe a little harder than if the school were sponsored by a "bigger" brand, but the point is it can be done. We can probably both agree that CTT didn't (know to) change up her recruiting game a bit once ASU switched over to Adidas in '14. But, even before then, she still didn't get the really elite-level kids, despite having a perennial Top-25 program. She was basically HC there for the WNBA's entire existence, in which the Adidas deal only took effect in '15, and she still only produced one WNBA-level player.
Recruiting shortcomings, overall, fall on the coach. ASU is close to Phoenix, warm year 'round, and has low academic barriers to entry. It really shouldn't be that hard to get kids to come there, in theory. Yes, it's a notorious party school, but what school doesn't have some sort of party culture? Even the Stanford kids want to have a little fun every now & then (much to the chagrin of their admin). And again, here at Adidas-sponsored Washington, we've been upping our game on the recruiting trail despite the fact that wbb has been an absolute shit program of ours for five years straight. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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fancy_daniel
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| Posted: 11/05/22 7:33 pm ::: |
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Speaking of ASU, I put together this little compendium of information regarding roster. Clearly, they have lost quite a bit.
Arizona State
2021-22 Record: 12-14, 4-9
2021-22 Postseason: None
Coach: Natasha Adair
Coach Record: 167-143 overall
DEPARTED PLAYERS
Jade Loville, 16.6 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 1.4 apg
Taya Hanson, 8.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.1 apg
Gabriela Bosquez, 3.0 ppg, 1.4 rpg
Ayzhiana Basallo, 4.8 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 1.3 apg
Mael Gilles, 9.9 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 2.8 apg
Katelyn Levings, 4.6 ppg, 3.8 rpg,
Jayde Van Hyfte, 3.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg
RETURNING PLAYERS
Jaddan Simmons, Junior Guard, 9.6 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.8 apg
Sydney Erikstrup, Sophomore Guard, 1.6 ppg, 1.5 rpg
Maggie Besselink, Sophomore Guard/Forward, 3.8 ppg, 5.3 rpg
Meg Newman, Sophomore Forward
Imogen Greenslade, Junior Center, 2.2 ppg, 2.4 rpg
Isadora Sousa, Junior Guard, 1.7 ppg, 1.6 rpg
NEW PLAYERS
Treasure Hunt, Junior Guard, Transfer - Kentucky
Jaylah Robinson, Freshman Guard
Tyi Skinner, Junior Guard, Transfer - Delaware
Trayanna Crisp, Freshman Guard
Journey Thompson, Freshman Forward
Kayla Mokwuah, Grad Center, Transfer - TCU
Morasha Wiggins, Sophomore Guard - North Carolina
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fancy_daniel
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 11/05/22 7:43 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
Again, that doesn't mean it's impossible to build a good program. Maybe a little harder than if the school were sponsored by a "bigger" brand, but the point is it can be done. We can probably both agree that CTT didn't (know to) change up her recruiting game a bit once ASU switched over to Adidas in '14. But, even before then, she still didn't get the really elite-level kids, despite having a perennial Top-25 program. She was basically HC there for the WNBA's entire existence, in which the Adidas deal only took effect in '15, and she still only produced one WNBA-level player.
Recruiting shortcomings, overall, fall on the coach. ASU is close to Phoenix, warm year 'round, and has low academic barriers to entry. It really shouldn't be that hard to get kids to come there, in theory. Yes, it's a notorious party school, but what school doesn't have some sort of party culture? Even the Stanford kids want to have a little fun every now & then (much to the chagrin of their admin). And again, here at Adidas-sponsored Washington, we've been upping our game on the recruiting trail despite the fact that wbb has been an absolute shit program of ours for five years straight. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
I think you're absolutely right. CTT had some success in the conference but that was before the Oregons, UCLA and Arizona started doing well. I think after that, she struggled.
We'll see what kind of coach Adair is, but the success rate of mid-major coaches with good records is mixed in the conference.
I think the expectations are low and they were picked to finish last in the preseason poll. They'll need some of the transfer players to step, but I think the theme for teams across the country is teams gelling with lots of new pieces. I'm looking forward to seeing Treasure Hunt who was widely touted out of high school and a solid player at Kentucky.
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fancy_daniel
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| Posted: 11/05/22 7:44 pm ::: |
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I started doing these in reverse order of the preseason poll. Personally, I think Charmin Smith is on the hotseat.
California
2021-22 Record: 11-13, 2-10
2021-22 Postseason: None
Coach: Charmin Smith
Coach Record: 24-48
DEPARTED PLAYERS
Dalyah Daniels, 7.9 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.2 apg
Jazlen Green, 9.4 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.4 apg
Cailyn Crocker, 6.5 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 1.9 apg
Fatou Samb, 1.9 ppg, 1.9 rpg
Sierra Richey
RETURNING PLAYERS
Ugonne Onyiah, Junior Forward, 4.8 ppg, 4.6 rpg
Leilani McIntosh, Senior Guard, 6.7 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.2 apg
Alma Elsnitz, Junior Guard, 1.6 ppg 1.1 rpg
Mia Mastrov, Sophomore Guard, 2.6 ppg, 1.2 rpg
Evelien Lutje Schipholt, Senior Forward, 9.3 ppg, 6.9 rpg
Jayda Curry, Sophomore Guard, 18.6 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 2.8 rpg
Ornela Muca, Junior Guard, 0.8 ppg, 0.6 rpg
Sela Heide, Junior Center, 2.0 ppg, 3.5 rpg
Karisma Ortiz, Grad Guard
Jadyn Bush, Grad Forward, 5.7 ppg, 5.3 rpg
NEW PLAYERS
Amaya Bonner, Freshman Guard
Bella Stevens, Freshman Guard
Claudia Langarita, Sophomore Forward - USF
Kemery Martin, Redshirt Sophomore Guard - Utah
Peanut Tuitele, Grad Forward - Colorado
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myrtle
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| Posted: 11/05/22 9:10 pm ::: |
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| I didn't realize Cal got Peanut. Very active player. I think she'll be a big help to their frontcourt.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 11/05/22 10:27 pm ::: |
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If ASU starts Skinner, Simmons, and Hunt, that could be a good perimeter unit if the chemistry gets built. Losing Loville to Arizona hurt, but losing Hanson to Oregon imo was addition by subtraction, since she took so many shots over the years (and so few went in). They have post players for Adair to work with, but it’s a mix of inexperience and transfers so that’ll likely be a weak point for them.
I thought Cal had a good chance of re-ascending if they had kept their big 2020 recruiting class together. Well, Daniels & Samb are gone, and the others remaining have been good but not great. Yes, Jayda Curry has been a very pleasant surprise, but the program just needs more cohesion and chemistry – something that Charmin Smith just hasn’t been able to get out of her team. That’s probably where the transfers come in, but if the team still struggles, then yeah, maybe this isn’t gonna work out for her.
Thanks for these team overviews. Ya never know nowadays how much longer we’ll be able to talk about this conference. Nov. 17 could be an interesting day regarding its future.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 11/06/22 9:30 am ::: |
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| Tennessee had Adidas for a long time and I don't think it hurt them. Just saying. If you have an elite program, you have an elite program.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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fancy_daniel
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 11/06/22 11:58 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| I didn't realize Cal got Peanut. Very active player. I think she'll be a big help to their frontcourt. |
Peanut is definitely a player Cal can use. Her toughness and hustle could go a long way moving from the bottom of the conference to the middle, which I think Smith needs to buy her more time.
Looking over the Cal roster though, even though they lost Daniels, I think they have an experienced core. I expect them to be better than 11th.
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fancy_daniel
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| Posted: 11/06/22 1:12 pm ::: |
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Washington
2021-22 Record: 7-16, 2-12
2021-22 Postseason: None
Coach: Tina Langley
Coach Record: 7-16 Pac-12, 133-77 overall
DEPARTED PLAYERS
Jess Finney, 0.3 rpg
Marisa Davis-Jones, 1.0 ppg, 0.5 rpg
Olivia Pollerd, 0.7 ppg, 0.3 rpg
Alexis Whitfield, 4.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg
Nancy Mulkey, 10.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg
Missy Peterson, 6.7 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.4 apg
RETURNING PLAYERS
Lauren Schwartz, Junior Forward, 10.3 ppg, 2.4 rpg, 2.3 apg
Jayda Noble, Sophomore Guard, 2.0 ppg, 2.3 rpg, 1.1 apg
Haley Van. Dyke, Freshman Forward, 11.0 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.9 apg
Nia Lowery, Sophomore Guard, 1.8 ppg, 0.5 rpg
TT Watkins, Senior Guard, 4.1 ppg, 1.7 rpg
Trinity Oliver, Senior Guard, 4.3 ppg. 5.0 rpg, 1.3 apg
Lexi Griggsby, Senior Guard, 6.7 ppg, 1.3 rpg
Darcy Rees, Senior Center, 1.9 ppg, 0.9 rpg
NEW PLAYERS
Hannah Stines, Freshman Guard
Teagan Brown, Freshman Guard
Dalaya Daniels, Sophomore Forward - Cal
Emma Grothaus, Senior Center - Lehigh
Shayla Giller, Freshman Forward
Elle Ladine, Freshman Guard
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fancy_daniel
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| Posted: 11/06/22 1:17 pm ::: |
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As Stormeo mentioned, no real point guard for Washington, but they do have a senior group which could go a long way. Along with Van Dyke and Schwartz, I think Daniels could take her time getting up to speed.
Interestingly enough, Grothaus, along with Daniels, shores up this teams weakness in the post. The former was a 1,000 point scorer at Lehigh.
This should be an interesting group to watch
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 11/06/22 4:22 pm ::: |
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| fancy_daniel wrote: |
As Stormeo mentioned, no real point guard for Washington, but they do have a senior group which could go a long way. Along with Van Dyke and Schwartz, I think Daniels could take her time getting up to speed.
Interestingly enough, Grothaus, along with Daniels, shores up this teams weakness in the post. The former was a 1,000 point scorer at Lehigh.
This should be an interesting group to watch |
I hope so! I really hope we find minutes for our better freshmen. That wasn't the case with last year's class, so they all transferred out – although they were an inherited class, so I'm a little more optimistic about this one. In order for this year's frosh to get minutes though, I'm hoping one or two of our seniors who have had plenty of opportunities to succeed over the years but ultimately haven't (due to inconsistency/lack of development, injury history, etc) get to bow out gracefully this year and get little to no minutes. This year is important given the large veteran presence, but we need to continue to build towards the future, and that means giving ample playing time to the underclassmen, who have more raw talent and thus a higher ceiling overall than our big senior group.
In the wake of 6-9 Nancy Mulkey's graduation, and likely the addition of specifically Dalayah Daniels who's a pretty versatile player, we'll supposedly be more "positionless" this year – everyone's favorite basketball buzzword. 🙃
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myrtle
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| Posted: 11/06/22 4:46 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
In the wake of 6-9 Nancy Mulkey's graduation, and likely the addition of specifically Dalayah Daniels who's a pretty versatile player, we'll supposedly be more "positionless" this year – everyone's favorite basketball buzzword. 🙃 |
I hate that word. It is so over-used, and rarely accurate anyway. Usually it just means 'we don't have a post so we'll say we don't need one' or 'we don't have a PG so we'll say we don't need one'...
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Stormeo
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May as well just say 5-out, but that doesn't sound as fancy or intimidating. 
