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goforit77
Joined: 09 Jan 2015
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 Posted: 03/03/23 9:17 am ::: |
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[quote="ArtBest23"]
| goforit77 wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| CBiebel wrote: |
| goforit77 wrote: |
Kara Lawson was robbed by lazy voting...She should have been Coach of the Year and its not even close.
Ivey took a team that was preseason Top 10, and finished the regular season in the Top 10. Lawson took a team that was picked 7th in the ACC..... off of the radar in the preseason voting and led them to a Top 12/13 finish in the final regular season poll.
ND finished one game ahead in the standings, had a MUCH easier conference schedule than Duke. Duke was in the pod with State, Chapel Hill, and VPI. ND shared a pod with Boston College, Pitt, and Syracuse. Duke beat ND in South Bend, and ND went 0-3 vs the Triangle schools.
All with only 1 all conference player. |
Some counter points:
Duke lost 2 of their last 4 games, including a 16 point loss at Va Tech. ND ended on a 6 game win streak. ND's last two conference losses (including the one to Duke) happened not only after Mabrey had her season ending injury, but when Ebo was also out with her "lower body injury". Duke went 0-2 in their home and home with their conference rival (granted, ND lost to that same team (UNC) on the road, but didn't get them at home). ND beat their conference rival (Louisville) twice, including when ND's star player (lead in scoring (prior to the game), assists, rebounds, and steals) went down right before the half.
Basically, IMO, it could have gone either way (Ivey or Lawson), and I wouldn't have really been that torn up if Lawson had gotten it, but the coaches chose Ivey. If they had chosen Lawson, then ND would have won the regular season without any of the "Of the Year" Categories (POY: Va Tech, DPOY: Duke, ROY: FSU, 6th POY: NC St. and MIP: FSU)
IMO, what ended up winning it for Ivey was the finish down the road, particularly winning at Louisville without Miles in the 2nd half. |
I can agree with your reasoning of why Ivey was chosen over Lawson while continue to disagree with the outcome. What Lawson did this season was so HUGE, that the end of the season shouldn't have mattered like it clearly did. It's an award for the entire season, not the last week of the season.[/
Exactly...the whole thing reeks of a popularity contest versus a performance based award. |
It wasn't just the "end of the season"; Ivey dealt with the loss of a starting guard in Mabrey and the extended absence of her primary inside offensive force in Ebo (and Duke was fortunate to meet ND with both of those players missing but the game still came down to the wire). She worked around and overcame that adversity. And in that last game, her team lost the best point guard in the country and was down double digits on the road yet while playing three guards - a sophomore a freshman and a high school senior - won the game and the conference championship while Duke couldn't get the job done with its full roster at home.
You're only paying attention to the admittedly excellent job Lawson did and choosing to ignore the adversity Ivey had to overcome. And ND was only predicted to finish 4th in the ACC, by the way, not to win the conference.
The vote wasn't even close by the way. The voters recognized Ivey's accomplishment. Indeed, Lawson very nearly finished third; she wasn't close to first. |
Compare the rosters side by side and ND should have been able to overcome those adversities...KL did so much more with a less talented roster.
Also ND had a much easier ACC POD this year...and UNC also beat ND while they were also depleted.
Both were worthy...But it shouldn't come down to a popularity contest...Its COY not prom queen.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/03/23 2:08 pm ::: |
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[quote="goforit77"]
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| goforit77 wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| CBiebel wrote: |
| goforit77 wrote: |
Kara Lawson was robbed by lazy voting...She should have been Coach of the Year and its not even close.
Ivey took a team that was preseason Top 10, and finished the regular season in the Top 10. Lawson took a team that was picked 7th in the ACC..... off of the radar in the preseason voting and led them to a Top 12/13 finish in the final regular season poll.
ND finished one game ahead in the standings, had a MUCH easier conference schedule than Duke. Duke was in the pod with State, Chapel Hill, and VPI. ND shared a pod with Boston College, Pitt, and Syracuse. Duke beat ND in South Bend, and ND went 0-3 vs the Triangle schools.
All with only 1 all conference player. |
Some counter points:
Duke lost 2 of their last 4 games, including a 16 point loss at Va Tech. ND ended on a 6 game win streak. ND's last two conference losses (including the one to Duke) happened not only after Mabrey had her season ending injury, but when Ebo was also out with her "lower body injury". Duke went 0-2 in their home and home with their conference rival (granted, ND lost to that same team (UNC) on the road, but didn't get them at home). ND beat their conference rival (Louisville) twice, including when ND's star player (lead in scoring (prior to the game), assists, rebounds, and steals) went down right before the half.
Basically, IMO, it could have gone either way (Ivey or Lawson), and I wouldn't have really been that torn up if Lawson had gotten it, but the coaches chose Ivey. If they had chosen Lawson, then ND would have won the regular season without any of the "Of the Year" Categories (POY: Va Tech, DPOY: Duke, ROY: FSU, 6th POY: NC St. and MIP: FSU)
IMO, what ended up winning it for Ivey was the finish down the road, particularly winning at Louisville without Miles in the 2nd half. |
I can agree with your reasoning of why Ivey was chosen over Lawson while continue to disagree with the outcome. What Lawson did this season was so HUGE, that the end of the season shouldn't have mattered like it clearly did. It's an award for the entire season, not the last week of the season.[/
Exactly...the whole thing reeks of a popularity contest versus a performance based award. |
It wasn't just the "end of the season"; Ivey dealt with the loss of a starting guard in Mabrey and the extended absence of her primary inside offensive force in Ebo (and Duke was fortunate to meet ND with both of those players missing but the game still came down to the wire). She worked around and overcame that adversity. And in that last game, her team lost the best point guard in the country and was down double digits on the road yet while playing three guards - a sophomore a freshman and a high school senior - won the game and the conference championship while Duke couldn't get the job done with its full roster at home.
You're only paying attention to the admittedly excellent job Lawson did and choosing to ignore the adversity Ivey had to overcome. And ND was only predicted to finish 4th in the ACC, by the way, not to win the conference.
The vote wasn't even close by the way. The voters recognized Ivey's accomplishment. Indeed, Lawson very nearly finished third; she wasn't close to first. |
Compare the rosters side by side and ND should have been able to overcome those adversities...KL did so much more with a less talented roster.
Also ND had a much easier ACC POD this year...and UNC also beat ND while they were also depleted.
Both were worthy...But it shouldn't come down to a popularity contest...Its COY not prom queen. |
That's your BS characterization that it's just a popularity contest. Of course you need to ignore the overwhelming margin of Ivey's selection
You should just be happy Lawson eked out a 2nd place by a razor thin margin over Brooks. She was a LOT closer to finishing 3rd than she was to winning.
Yeah, yeah, I know, the whole ACC is biased against Duke. Now there's a true belly laugh.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 03/03/23 5:44 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| goforit77 wrote: |
Kara Lawson was robbed by lazy voting...She should have been Coach of the Year and its not even close.
Ivey took a team that was preseason Top 10, and finished the regular season in the Top 10. Lawson took a team that was picked 7th in the ACC..... off of the radar in the preseason voting and led them to a Top 12/13 finish in the final regular season poll.
ND finished one game ahead in the standings, had a MUCH easier conference schedule than Duke. Duke was in the pod with State, Chapel Hill, and VPI. ND shared a pod with Boston College, Pitt, and Syracuse. Duke beat ND in South Bend, and ND went 0-3 vs the Triangle schools.
All with only 1 all conference player. |
Ivey was a reasonable choice, but Lawson was a more reasonable choice for all the reasons you cite. Lawson did far more vs. preseason expectations, and did it with less player talent. |
As a non-ACC disciple, the simple factors definitely favor Lawson as COY. Ivey is certainly deserving, but Lawson accomplished more with less AND with far less experience behind her.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/03/23 5:51 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| goforit77 wrote: |
Kara Lawson was robbed by lazy voting...She should have been Coach of the Year and its not even close.
Ivey took a team that was preseason Top 10, and finished the regular season in the Top 10. Lawson took a team that was picked 7th in the ACC..... off of the radar in the preseason voting and led them to a Top 12/13 finish in the final regular season poll.
ND finished one game ahead in the standings, had a MUCH easier conference schedule than Duke. Duke was in the pod with State, Chapel Hill, and VPI. ND shared a pod with Boston College, Pitt, and Syracuse. Duke beat ND in South Bend, and ND went 0-3 vs the Triangle schools.
All with only 1 all conference player. |
Ivey was a reasonable choice, but Lawson was a more reasonable choice for all the reasons you cite. Lawson did far more vs. preseason expectations, and did it with less player talent. |
As a non-ACC disciple, the simple factors definitely favor Lawson as COY. Ivey is certainly deserving, but Lawson accomplished more with less, imo. |
Thank you Howee. It's nice to have an unbiased person responding to this issue. Your vote should count for more than any of us with clear bias.
And...SURPRISE...talking head Muffet voted for Niele. SHOCK. And all talking heads who've shared their vote, ALL voted for Niele.
No, this is NOT a popularity contest!! Give me a freaking break. Talking heads act like it's a rally for Notre Dame.
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pilight
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| Posted: 03/03/23 5:58 pm ::: |
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| I'm not sure why Ivey's effectiveness at recruiting is being held against her. That's an important part of coaching. It's the only explanation for why Notre Dame would have better talent than Duke, since neither team has any players who were recruited by previous coaches.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/03/23 9:25 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| I'm not sure why Ivey's effectiveness at recruiting is being held against her. That's an important part of coaching. It's the only explanation for why Notre Dame would have better talent than Duke, since neither team has any players who were recruited by previous coaches. |
Of course. They were both hired the same time. The Duke program was coming off a much more successful season than the ND program. So why after three years does Ivey have Citron and Miles and Bransford, and Lawson has no one who knows how to shoot a basketball? Some people want to excuse all of Lawson's failings. Hey, so what, she can't recruit, and she can't teach or coach offense, she had the conference championship in hand but with a full healthy roster she couldn't pull it out, but hey, her team sets records for lowest points scored in games so she should be coach of the year.
It's nonsense, of course. She lucked out and faced Notre Dame with two key players out with injuries, lucked out and faced NCSt without its point guard and leading scorer. Got hammered by their only out of conference challenge - UConn - a team ND beat. And finished tied for second.
Ok, so ND was picked to finish 4th and Duke was picked to finish 7. And yes, as predicted, Duke finished behind ND. But ND won the outright conference championship. And the ONLY thing anyone can come up with is this "Lawson outperformed what the Blue Ribbon Panel predicted." Yeah, so did Ivey. Oh, then they throw in that Lawson hasn't recruited worth a shit in the same period of time so she should get bonus points for having nobody who can shoot a basketball. Do her proponents actually consider how ludicrous that argument is?
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Queenie
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Iluvacc
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/03/23 11:49 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| I'm not sure why Ivey's effectiveness at recruiting is being held against her. That's an important part of coaching. It's the only explanation for why Notre Dame would have better talent than Duke, since neither team has any players who were recruited by previous coaches....>snip<.... Oh, then they throw in that Lawson hasn't recruited worth a shit in the same period of time so she should get bonus points for having nobody who can shoot a basketball. Do her proponents actually consider how ludicrous that argument is? |
Of course. They were both hired the same time. The Duke program was coming off a much more successful season than the ND program. So why after three years does Ivey have Citron and Miles and Bransford, and Lawson has no one who knows how to shoot a basketball? |
(Now THAT'S an odd assessment, even beyond its hyperbole - "no one who knows how to shoot a basketball" - considering that, on ND's home floor, Duke won with shooting stats pretty equivalent to ND's 
More importantly, to pretend they started coaching/recruiting simultaneously is most disingenuous - a false equivalence: Niele was a key recruiter for Muff for years, while she sat at the Right Bosom of Mama Muff for 489 games.
Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat.
Both women were deserving (I even thing Kenny Brooks should been in the discussion, for that matter) But I'd have voted for Kara.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 03/04/23 12:08 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| I'm not sure why Ivey's effectiveness at recruiting is being held against her. That's an important part of coaching. It's the only explanation for why Notre Dame would have better talent than Duke, since neither team has any players who were recruited by previous coaches....>snip<.... Oh, then they throw in that Lawson hasn't recruited worth a shit in the same period of time so she should get bonus points for having nobody who can shoot a basketball. Do her proponents actually consider how ludicrous that argument is? |
Of course. They were both hired the same time. The Duke program was coming off a much more successful season than the ND program. So why after three years does Ivey have Citron and Miles and Bransford, and Lawson has no one who knows how to shoot a basketball? |
(Now THAT'S an odd assessment, even beyond its hyperbole - "no one who knows how to shoot a basketball" - considering that, on ND's home floor, Duke won with shooting stats pretty equivalent to ND's
More importantly, to pretend they started coaching/recruiting simultaneously is most disingenuous - a false equivalence: Niele was a key recruiter for Muff for years, while she sat at the Right Bosom of Mama Muff for 489 games.
Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat.
Both women were deserving (I even thing Kenny Brooks should been in the discussion, for that matter) But I'd have voted for Kara. |
Thank you again, Howee, for completely debunking the flawed opinions not based on fact. Kara wasn't hired until late July so had ZERO ZERO ZERO chance of recruiting for the first season, whereas Niele started with players she had recruited to ND and was continuing the Muffet coaching train. Kara inherited a program that was suffering badly, and a completely bare cupboard of players unwilling to learn from the coaching staff. ND had one bad year but they were already locked and loaded for the next season before Niele took the head coaching position. Then they landed Olivia Miles, who Niele had been recruiting for years.
When Kara was hired, she not only had ZERO recruits her first season, she had close to ZERO chance for the next season as all top recruits were already committed before she set up shop at Duke. That's TWO seasons with ZERO chance of recruiting top players vs Niele having her own recruits in year one.
This was the first season Kara had players who bought into her coaching and the results are pretty spectacular.
I thought 4 coaches stood out this season: Lawson, Brooks, Ivey and Wykoff - in that order.
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Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/04/23 8:40 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| I'm not sure why Ivey's effectiveness at recruiting is being held against her. That's an important part of coaching. It's the only explanation for why Notre Dame would have better talent than Duke, since neither team has any players who were recruited by previous coaches. |
Of course. They were both hired the same time. The Duke program was coming off a much more successful season than the ND program. So why after three years does Ivey have Citron and Miles and Bransford, and Lawson has no one who knows how to shoot a basketball? Some people want to excuse all of Lawson's failings. Hey, so what, she can't recruit, and she can't teach or coach offense, she had the conference championship in hand but with a full healthy roster she couldn't pull it out, but hey, her team sets records for lowest points scored in games so she should be coach of the year.
It's nonsense, of course. She lucked out and faced Notre Dame with two key players out with injuries, lucked out and faced NCSt without its point guard and leading scorer. Got hammered by their only out of conference challenge - UConn - a team ND beat. And finished tied for second.
Ok, so ND was picked to finish 4th and Duke was picked to finish 7. And yes, as predicted, Duke finished behind ND. But ND won the outright conference championship. And the ONLY thing anyone can come up with is this "Lawson outperformed what the Blue Ribbon Panel predicted." Yeah, so did Ivey. Oh, then they throw in that Lawson hasn't recruited worth a shit in the same period of time so she should get bonus points for having nobody who can shoot a basketball. Do her proponents actually consider how ludicrous that argument is? |
The fact that ND finished higher than they were predicted to finished undercuts the pro Duke talking point. I'm also glad they merged the Blue Ribbon Panel and Head Coaches voting to have only one All-ACC honors. No more split ROYs, COYs, etc.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/04/23 11:06 am ::: |
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So now Ivey should be penalized for (1) actually being qualified to take over a job at this level instead of a being a celebrity player/announcer only one tiny step above Whelan in qualifications, (2) actually capable of recruiting, which is at least half the job, and (3) being competent to teach and coach offense as well as defense.
Well I guess every qualified coach is henceforth out of the running for every COY award. If you're not inept at half your job and aren't "learning on the fly", you're not eligible. Oh, and don't you dare actually win your league or you're out of the running.
The Duke rant becomes more absurd, bizarre and desperate by the moment.
I notice they choose not to address the size of the vote margin by which Ivey won or try to explain why Lawson was within a hair of finishing 3rd behind Brooks.
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 03/04/23 2:21 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat. |
Maybe Niele is seen as a coach (you know, because that's what she's been doing for the last 20 years) by the other coaches/voters and Kara is looked at as a broadcaster in a coaches role (you know, 'cause that's what she is)?
_________________
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“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 03/04/23 4:51 pm ::: |
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| Davis4632 wrote: |
| The fact that ND finished higher than they were predicted to finished undercuts the pro Duke talking point. I'm also glad they merged the Blue Ribbon Panel and Head Coaches voting to have only one All-ACC honors. No more split ROYs, COYs, etc. |
I think you're confused: ND was predicted to finish 4th, and finished 1st. Up 3 notches. Duke was picked to finish 7th and made it to 2nd(tie w/VaTech), for a net gain of 5 ranking spots. By that criteria, Duke did BETTER than ND, no 'undercutting' point to be made.
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat. |
Maybe Niele is seen as a coach (you know, because that's what she's been doing for the last 20 years) by the other coaches/voters and Kara is looked at as a broadcaster in a coaches role (you know, 'cause that's what she is)? |
Well now, THERE'S some kinda stupid!  You really think voters thought Kara was still too much of a broadcaster to be COY?? 
I say y'all are taking this a bit too seriously, FFS.
A. Ivey deserves COY.
B. Lawson deserved COY
C. Brooks deserved COY
I observe that, with LESS coaching experience and LESS player talent, Kara moved more ranked spaces in the ACC rankings than the other 2 from season's beginning to season's end. There are certainly other factors that played into this, but that's just one simple analysis of how/why Kara was deserving, despite the outcome. She's done a great job this season! None of that is diminished by the fact she didn't actually get the award.
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 03/04/23 4:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Howee wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| The fact that ND finished higher than they were predicted to finished undercuts the pro Duke talking point. I'm also glad they merged the Blue Ribbon Panel and Head Coaches voting to have only one All-ACC honors. No more split ROYs, COYs, etc. |
I think you're confused: ND was predicted to finish 4th, and finished 1st. Up 3 notches. Duke was picked to finish 7th and made it to 2nd(tie w/VaTech), for a net gain of 5 ranking spots. By that criteria, Duke did BETTER than ND, no 'undercutting' point to be made.
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat. |
Maybe Niele is seen as a coach (you know, because that's what she's been doing for the last 20 years) by the other coaches/voters and Kara is looked at as a broadcaster in a coaches role (you know, 'cause that's what she is)? |
Well now, THERE'S some kinda stupid! You really think voters thought Kara was still too much of a broadcaster to be COY??
I say y'all are taking this a bit too seriously, FFS.
A. Ivey deserves COY.
B. Lawson deserved COY
C. Brooks deserved COY
I observe that, with LESS coaching experience and LESS player talent, Kara moved more ranked spaces in the ACC rankings than the other 2 from season's beginning to season's end. There are certainly other factors that played into this, but that's just one simple analysis of how/why Kara was deserving, despite the outcome. She's done a great job this season! None of that is diminished by the fact she didn't actually get the award. |
Name calling, really?
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 03/04/23 5:12 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| The fact that ND finished higher than they were predicted to finished undercuts the pro Duke talking point. I'm also glad they merged the Blue Ribbon Panel and Head Coaches voting to have only one All-ACC honors. No more split ROYs, COYs, etc. |
I think you're confused: ND was predicted to finish 4th, and finished 1st. Up 3 notches. Duke was picked to finish 7th and made it to 2nd(tie w/VaTech), for a net gain of 5 ranking spots. By that criteria, Duke did BETTER than ND, no 'undercutting' point to be made.
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat. |
Maybe Niele is seen as a coach (you know, because that's what she's been doing for the last 20 years) by the other coaches/voters and Kara is looked at as a broadcaster in a coaches role (you know, 'cause that's what she is)? |
Well now, THERE'S some kinda stupid! You really think voters thought Kara was still too much of a broadcaster to be COY??
I say y'all are taking this a bit too seriously, FFS.
A. Ivey deserves COY.
B. Lawson deserved COY
C. Brooks deserved COY
I observe that, with LESS coaching experience and LESS player talent, Kara moved more ranked spaces in the ACC rankings than the other 2 from season's beginning to season's end. There are certainly other factors that played into this, but that's just one simple analysis of how/why Kara was deserving, despite the outcome. She's done a great job this season! None of that is diminished by the fact she didn't actually get the award. |
Name calling, really? |
Names? I don't see any names called, darling. "Ideas" being given their apt descriptors does not = calling anyone a 'name'.
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 03/04/23 6:45 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| Howee wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| The fact that ND finished higher than they were predicted to finished undercuts the pro Duke talking point. I'm also glad they merged the Blue Ribbon Panel and Head Coaches voting to have only one All-ACC honors. No more split ROYs, COYs, etc. |
I think you're confused: ND was predicted to finish 4th, and finished 1st. Up 3 notches. Duke was picked to finish 7th and made it to 2nd(tie w/VaTech), for a net gain of 5 ranking spots. By that criteria, Duke did BETTER than ND, no 'undercutting' point to be made.
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat. |
Maybe Niele is seen as a coach (you know, because that's what she's been doing for the last 20 years) by the other coaches/voters and Kara is looked at as a broadcaster in a coaches role (you know, 'cause that's what she is)? |
Well now, THERE'S some kinda stupid! You really think voters thought Kara was still too much of a broadcaster to be COY??
I say y'all are taking this a bit too seriously, FFS.
A. Ivey deserves COY.
B. Lawson deserved COY
C. Brooks deserved COY
I observe that, with LESS coaching experience and LESS player talent, Kara moved more ranked spaces in the ACC rankings than the other 2 from season's beginning to season's end. There are certainly other factors that played into this, but that's just one simple analysis of how/why Kara was deserving, despite the outcome. She's done a great job this season! None of that is diminished by the fact she didn't actually get the award. |
Name calling, really? |
Names? I don't see any names called, darling. "Ideas" being given their apt descriptors does not = calling anyone a 'name'. |
Times 2.
Are you going to go for the trifecta?
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Howee
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 03/04/23 10:27 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| The fact that ND finished higher than they were predicted to finished undercuts the pro Duke talking point. I'm also glad they merged the Blue Ribbon Panel and Head Coaches voting to have only one All-ACC honors. No more split ROYs, COYs, etc. |
I think you're confused: ND was predicted to finish 4th, and finished 1st. Up 3 notches. Duke was picked to finish 7th and made it to 2nd(tie w/VaTech), for a net gain of 5 ranking spots. By that criteria, Duke did BETTER than ND, no 'undercutting' point to be made.
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat. |
Maybe Niele is seen as a coach (you know, because that's what she's been doing for the last 20 years) by the other coaches/voters and Kara is looked at as a broadcaster in a coaches role (you know, 'cause that's what she is)? |
Well now, THERE'S some kinda stupid! You really think voters thought Kara was still too much of a broadcaster to be COY??
I say y'all are taking this a bit too seriously, FFS.
A. Ivey deserves COY.
B. Lawson deserved COY
C. Brooks deserved COY
I observe that, with LESS coaching experience and LESS player talent, Kara moved more ranked spaces in the ACC rankings than the other 2 from season's beginning to season's end. There are certainly other factors that played into this, but that's just one simple analysis of how/why Kara was deserving, despite the outcome. She's done a great job this season! None of that is diminished by the fact she didn't actually get the award. |
YAY for Howee! You can call out the BS like no other! Yes - a LOT of stupid going on here!
And let's hear it for Virginia Tech and their magical season! GO HOKIES!
_________________
Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 03/04/23 10:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| The fact that ND finished higher than they were predicted to finished undercuts the pro Duke talking point. I'm also glad they merged the Blue Ribbon Panel and Head Coaches voting to have only one All-ACC honors. No more split ROYs, COYs, etc. |
I think you're confused: ND was predicted to finish 4th, and finished 1st. Up 3 notches. Duke was picked to finish 7th and made it to 2nd(tie w/VaTech), for a net gain of 5 ranking spots. By that criteria, Duke did BETTER than ND, no 'undercutting' point to be made.
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat. |
Maybe Niele is seen as a coach (you know, because that's what she's been doing for the last 20 years) by the other coaches/voters and Kara is looked at as a broadcaster in a coaches role (you know, 'cause that's what she is)? |
Well now, THERE'S some kinda stupid! You really think voters thought Kara was still too much of a broadcaster to be COY??
I say y'all are taking this a bit too seriously, FFS.
A. Ivey deserves COY.
B. Lawson deserved COY
C. Brooks deserved COY
I observe that, with LESS coaching experience and LESS player talent, Kara moved more ranked spaces in the ACC rankings than the other 2 from season's beginning to season's end. There are certainly other factors that played into this, but that's just one simple analysis of how/why Kara was deserving, despite the outcome. She's done a great job this season! None of that is diminished by the fact she didn't actually get the award. |
YAY for Howee! You can call out the BS like no other! Yes - a LOT of stupid going on here!
And let's hear it for Virginia Tech and their magical season! GO HOKIES! |
One more shout out - I think Kenny Brooks earned COY for sitting Owusu's nasty butt on the bench. I'm sure she'll get picked late in the draft due to her sheer talent and will get a chance to show she's still got some ball to play. Must keep her nastiness on hold or nobody will touch her.
_________________
Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
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| Posted: 03/05/23 8:21 am ::: |
Reply |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| The fact that ND finished higher than they were predicted to finished undercuts the pro Duke talking point. I'm also glad they merged the Blue Ribbon Panel and Head Coaches voting to have only one All-ACC honors. No more split ROYs, COYs, etc. |
I think you're confused: ND was predicted to finish 4th, and finished 1st. Up 3 notches. Duke was picked to finish 7th and made it to 2nd(tie w/VaTech), for a net gain of 5 ranking spots. By that criteria, Duke did BETTER than ND, no 'undercutting' point to be made.
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| Kara entered this as a brand new milieu, and learned on the fly how to recruit....WITH her first season aborted (pandemic) she had bailed on finishing the season, and she lost out on valuable experience, right off the bat. |
Maybe Niele is seen as a coach (you know, because that's what she's been doing for the last 20 years) by the other coaches/voters and Kara is looked at as a broadcaster in a coaches role (you know, 'cause that's what she is)? |
Well now, THERE'S some kinda stupid! You really think voters thought Kara was still too much of a broadcaster to be COY??
I say y'all are taking this a bit too seriously, FFS.
A. Ivey deserves COY.
B. Lawson deserved COY
C. Brooks deserved COY
I observe that, with LESS coaching experience and LESS player talent, Kara moved more ranked spaces in the ACC rankings than the other 2 from season's beginning to season's end. There are certainly other factors that played into this, but that's just one simple analysis of how/why Kara was deserving, despite the outcome. She's done a great job this season! None of that is diminished by the fact she didn't actually get the award. |
YAY for Howee! You can call out the BS like no other! Yes - a LOT of stupid going on here!
And let's hear it for Virginia Tech and their magical season! GO HOKIES! |
It really isn't BS if you'd only think about it.
But then that would take some effort.
Oh, and some people have earned the right to approach a line, while others have not.
That's why Howee is special and others are not.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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