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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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 Posted: 03/05/23 1:28 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| the NET system starts to look a bit sus to me when a team like Oregon (14-12 [5-10 conf.], losers of 6-straight) remains in the Top 30 |
Oregon's still firmly a bubble team at 16-13 but is #18 in the NET, so again how legitimate is this rankings system? |
That's actually the example I most often see raised by articles questioning the validity and common sense of the NET formula.
And if the two "reveals" are an actual indication, the Committee isn't paying much attention to its own proprietary metric. |
Unfortunately for ND, injuries are very much a part of the seeding. ND better put up a flag for the regular season ACC championship, because that's all she wrote.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/05/23 11:53 am ::: |
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| Suspiciously overlooked Tennessee moving up in Charlie's bracketology after the last two games. Yeah, AP voters? Just because they played the toughest OOC in the nation....which was finally admitted.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 03/05/23 12:59 pm ::: |
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| And Creme now has Tenn and LSU in the same bracket together.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 03/05/23 3:56 pm ::: |
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UMass (NET: 56) just got upset by Saint Louis (NET: 137) in the Atlantic 10 Finals and surrended the conference's auto bid to Saint Louis, 91-85 in OT, but UMass could still sneak into the Big Dance
UMass' best wins: vs. Harvard (NET: 83) by 10, vs. Drake (NET: 54) by 17, @ Arizona State (NET: 111) by 24, @ Rhode Island by 21, @ Fordham (NET: 94) by 9, vs. Fordham by 1, vs. Saint Joseph's (NET: 97) by 2, vs. Richmond (NET: 96) by 4, vs. Richmond by 20
UMass' losses: @ Tennessee (NET: 15) by 9, vs. Missouri (NET: 57) by 5, vs. Columbia (NET: 45) by 9, vs. Rhode Island (NET: 71) by 7, vs. @ Saint Louis by 2, vs. Saint Louis by 6
if UMass still manages to get in, someone else's bubble is then gonna burst đ
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
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| Posted: 03/05/23 4:07 pm ::: |
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| Maybe UMass could get in as one of the "First Four." Dayton was in a similar situation last year.
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mikeyc22
Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 2396
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| Posted: 03/05/23 9:11 pm ::: |
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| I might just be lazy, but can someone explain to me why Stanford is a lock as a 1 seed?
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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Location: Missouri
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| Posted: 03/10/23 11:17 am ::: |
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I don't understand how Mississippi State is ahead of St. Johns.
St. Johns has more NET Top 25 wins and the same number of NET Top 50 wins. St. Johns wins are also more impressive, according to NET rankings (UConn, Creighton, and Marquette vs. Tennessee, Alabama, and Arkansas, with the UConn win being the only one of the six on the road). Mississippi State also has a bad loss against NET 111 Texas A&M (whereas St. Johns worst losses are to NET 65 Seton Hall). That loss to Texas A&M was in their most recent game, too.
Mississippi State's NET ranking is higher (39 to 55), but I've pointed out multiple times that their NET ranking hasn't made sense given their resume.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/10/23 3:56 pm ::: |
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| singinerd54 wrote: |
I don't understand how Mississippi State is ahead of St. Johns.
St. Johns has more NET Top 25 wins and the same number of NET Top 50 wins. St. Johns wins are also more impressive, according to NET rankings (UConn, Creighton, and Marquette vs. Tennessee, Alabama, and Arkansas, with the UConn win being the only one of the six on the road). Mississippi State also has a bad loss against NET 111 Texas A&M (whereas St. Johns worst losses are to NET 65 Seton Hall). That loss to Texas A&M was in their most recent game, too.
Mississippi State's NET ranking is higher (39 to 55), but I've pointed out multiple times that their NET ranking hasn't made sense given their resume. |
Call me cynical but I get the feeling that the SEC can't receive fewer bids than the Pac and B10 and ACC. Well maybe one of the four can get one extra, but that's about it if even that happens. So they need to add some SEC team, and consequently somebody deemed expendable - maybe SJU maybe someone else - loses out. All year they've talked about the weak year the SEC is having, but it doesn't look like the bracket will reflect that.
I just have never felt that the women's selection committee has gotten passed favoritism towards big time coaches, teams, leagues and other extraneous factors. Creme certainly hasn't although maybe he's just accurately reflecting the biases he knows the committee will exhibit. They seem far more influenced by politics and cronyism than the men's selection committee and Joe Lunardi.
Maybe it's just a misguided manifestation of the WCBB establishment's obsession and inferiority complex regarding ticket sales and ratings.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/10/23 4:02 pm ::: |
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| singinerd54 wrote: |
I don't understand how Mississippi State is ahead of St. Johns.
St. Johns has more NET Top 25 wins and the same number of NET Top 50 wins. St. Johns wins are also more impressive, according to NET rankings (UConn, Creighton, and Marquette vs. Tennessee, Alabama, and Arkansas, with the UConn win being the only one of the six on the road). Mississippi State also has a bad loss against NET 111 Texas A&M (whereas St. Johns worst losses are to NET 65 Seton Hall). That loss to Texas A&M was in their most recent game, too.
Mississippi State's NET ranking is higher (39 to 55), but I've pointed out multiple times that their NET ranking hasn't made sense given their resume. |
Let me explain it to you one more time. Neither Charlie Creme nor the voters nor the SelComm give a flying Wallenda in a Buffalo snowstorm about the NET. They just SAY they do. In reality theyâre stuck in the same old rut and itâs about W-L and who you are and NET. goes out the window.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 1817
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: 03/10/23 8:54 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| singinerd54 wrote: |
I don't understand how Mississippi State is ahead of St. Johns.
St. Johns has more NET Top 25 wins and the same number of NET Top 50 wins. St. Johns wins are also more impressive, according to NET rankings (UConn, Creighton, and Marquette vs. Tennessee, Alabama, and Arkansas, with the UConn win being the only one of the six on the road). Mississippi State also has a bad loss against NET 111 Texas A&M (whereas St. Johns worst losses are to NET 65 Seton Hall). That loss to Texas A&M was in their most recent game, too.
Mississippi State's NET ranking is higher (39 to 55), but I've pointed out multiple times that their NET ranking hasn't made sense given their resume. |
Neither Charlie Creme nor the voters nor the SelComm give a flying Wallenda in a Buffalo snowstorm about the NET. They just SAY they do. In reality theyâre stuck in the same old rut and itâs about W-L and who you are and NET goes out the window. |
If anything, I think not paying attention to the NET makes Mississippi State over St. Johns even worse. Beating UConn, Creighton, and Marquette is pretty clearly superior to beating Tennessee, Alabama, and Arkansas. Texas A&M is a terrible loss. St. Johns has a better record. The only thing in Mississippi State's favor is...
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Call me cynical but I get the feeling that the SEC can't receive fewer bids than the Pac and B10 and ACC. Well maybe one of the four can get one extra, but that's about it if even that happens. So they need to add some SEC team, and consequently somebody deemed expendable - maybe SJU maybe someone else - loses out. All year they've talked about the weak year the SEC is having, but it doesn't look like the bracket will reflect that.
I just have never felt that the women's selection committee has gotten passed favoritism towards big time coaches, teams, leagues and other extraneous factors. Creme certainly hasn't although maybe he's just accurately reflecting the biases he knows the committee will exhibit. They seem far more influenced by politics and cronyism than the men's selection committee and Joe Lunardi.
Maybe it's just a misguided manifestation of the WCBB establishment's obsession and inferiority complex regarding ticket sales and ratings. |
Doesn't seem cynical or misguided to me. Really seems to be the only (or at least the best) reason for the choice. And it's a shame, because there is no way the SEC deserves as many bids as the Pac, B10, and ACC this year. Tennessee, the clear second or third best team in the SEC, went 1-7 against NET Top 50 non-SEC opponents, for crying out loud!! I know Power Conference bias isn't new, but yikes.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18031
Location: Queens
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| Posted: 03/10/23 11:47 pm ::: |
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| if getting swept by Seton Hall costs St. John's a tournament berth, I may die laughing, remember me with what fondness you can muster
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Marquette Fan
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 3581
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| Posted: 03/11/23 9:59 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| if getting swept by Seton Hall costs St. John's a tournament berth, I may die laughing, remember me with what fondness you can muster |
Creme keeps moving St. John's around and they are last 4 in as of this morning. I just don't know if they'll take 5 teams from the Big East.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
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| Posted: 03/11/23 10:55 pm ::: |
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| Marquette Fan wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| if getting swept by Seton Hall costs St. John's a tournament berth, I may die laughing, remember me with what fondness you can muster |
Creme keeps moving St. John's around and they are last 4 in as of this morning. I just don't know if they'll take 5 teams from the Big East. |
One thing SJ has going for it is that they are in a huge TV market.
Mickey Mouse may be calling whomever his contact person is in Indianappolis to explain the difference between NYC and Starkville.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 03/12/23 11:26 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| the NET system starts to look a bit sus to me when a team like Oregon (14-12 [5-10 conf.], losers of 6-straight) remains in the Top 30 |
Oregon's still firmly a bubble team at 16-13 but is #18 in the NET, so again how legitimate is this rankings system? |
That's actually the example I most often see raised by articles questioning the validity and common sense of the NET formula.
And if the two "reveals" are an actual indication, the Committee isn't paying much attention to its own proprietary metric. |
Unfortunately for ND, injuries are very much a part of the seeding. ND better put up a flag for the regular season ACC championship, because that's all she wrote. |
I'm interested in seeing how the committee treats ND and the injury to Miles.
I'm thinking that they will drop down to a 4 seed and wouldn't be surprised if they are the overall 16 seed.
I think they will stay top 16 just so that they can host. With the fan base and experience of hosting, I think the NCAA will want to keep them there.
If Miles is out, I think that they are lower than a 16 seed. Will the committee take a chance that she is playing and move them up to a 3 seed? I keep thinking back to 1998 and Stanford losing to Harvard. I'm not convinced that the committee takes too kindly to teams that withhold vital injury info.
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. Itâs time we started believing in the potential of women." âMuffet McGraw
âThank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,â Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Stormeo
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Marquette Fan
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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| Posted: 03/12/23 12:08 pm ::: |
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I hope Illinois and Purdue by make it make it in as the 6th and 7th teams from the Big Ten. The top of the Big Ten has been too good this year to not reward the conference with 7 bids IMO.
I think Oregon will get in as the LAST team in. Think the big name program would attract some viewers that the other team's just won't, IMO.
I struggle to make a case for Kansas *or* West Virginia tbh, especially considering that neither team won a Big 12 tournament game. The Big 12 has not been good this year and I don't see how that translates to potentially 60% or even 70% of the conference getting in. Kansas wouldn't even been in the conversation if not for their beat down of Arizona months and months ago.
I'd love to see Columbia get in over one of the SEC teams...
Marquette but not St. John's please.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/12/23 12:29 pm ::: |
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| undersized_post wrote: |
| I hope Illinois and Purdue by make it make it in as the 6th and 7th teams from the Big Ten. The top of the Big Ten has been too good this year to not reward the conference with 7 bids IMO. |
Truth. To me, the B1G was the deepest conference this season, and is more deserving than, say the SEC or Big 12 to get 6/7 teams in. JMO.
| undersized_post wrote: |
| I think Oregon will get in as the LAST team in. Think the big name program would attract some viewers that the other team's just won't, IMO. |
(Unfortunately) I must disagree. You simply CANNOT lose 7 consecutive games near the season's end and expect to dance, especially when your entire season was 17-14, with a total of ONE win over a ranked school (#14 AZ). At this point, and with how they've been this part of the season, I'd rather seem them in the NIT, where they might get another 2-3 games.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3516
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| Posted: 03/12/23 12:40 pm ::: |
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| The men's and women's "Bracketology--Field of 136" discussion is on ESPN at 7 pm tonight. Then the women's actual selection show is on ESPN at 8 pm and continued on ESPNU at 9 pm. Per Comcast. You'd think ESPN would have this info displayed prominently on their WBB webpage, but no, just 5 billion articles by the Cremepuff.
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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Location: Missouri
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| Posted: 03/12/23 1:14 pm ::: |
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| undersized_post wrote: |
I hope Illinois and Purdue by make it make it in as the 6th and 7th teams from the Big Ten. The top of the Big Ten has been too good this year to not reward the conference with 7 bids IMO.
The Big 12 has not been good this year and I don't see how that translates to potentially 60% or even 70% of the conference getting in. |
I feel similarly about the SEC. The Pac, B10, and ACC have clearly been the best conferences, and I think that should be reflected in the teams in the field.
| undersized_post wrote: |
| I'd love to see Columbia get in over one of the SEC teams... |
Losses to Penn (NET 118) and Vanderbilt at home (NET 100) are tough to overcome, especially when Vanderbilt went 3-13 in the SEC.
| undersized_post wrote: |
| Marquette but not St. John's please. |
With a couple of (really) good wins and no (really) bad losses, I think St. John's has a pretty good case to be in the field, relative to the resumes of other bubble teams.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 03/12/23 1:39 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| undersized_post wrote: |
| I think Oregon will get in as the LAST team in. Think the big name program would attract some viewers that the other team's just won't, IMO. |
(Unfortunately) I must disagree. You simply CANNOT lose 7 consecutive games near the season's end and expect to dance, especially when your entire season was 17-14, with a total of ONE win over a ranked school (#14 AZ). |
the thing is, with wbb, i never discount the âpoliticsâ of it all being a factor when it comes to subjective decisions like these â namely who makes Big Dances and Olympic teams, and who doesnât.
i agree that Oregon doesnât deserve a bid, but especially with that NET of theirs still inside the Top 20, i think their brand value could help them squeak in as well.
Last edited by Stormeo on 03/12/23 1:43 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 03/12/23 1:42 pm ::: |
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| And theyâll almost always pick a mediocre P5 over a really good mid, speaking of politics.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 03/12/23 2:07 pm ::: |
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no idea how the committee views winning the conference tournament as it relates to whoâs getting the 1 seeds. we know that undefeated South Carolina (NET: 1) will be #1 overall.
Who ya got for the other three spots?
UConn â NET: 2, 29-5, won Big East tourney
Stanford â NET: 4, 28-5, did not win Pac-12 tourney
Indiana â NET: 5, 27-3, did not win Big Ten tourney
Iowa â NET: 6, 26-6, won Big Ten tourney
Virginia Tech â NET: 9, 27-4, won ACC tourney
LSU (NET: 3), Utah (NET: 7), and Notre Dame (NET: 8) round out the missing single-digit NETers â though none of them are getting any 1-seed buzz, nor will the winner of the Big 12 tourney.
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Tally24
Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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| Posted: 03/12/23 2:47 pm ::: |
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| Creme has seemed fairly certain that Stanford will be a one seed, and I need it explained to me like a kindergartner. I havenât done many CE hours on bracketology. đ€« |
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 03/12/23 2:48 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
no idea how the committee views winning the conference tournament as it relates to whoâs getting the 1 seeds. we know that undefeated South Carolina (NET: 1) will be #1 overall.
Who ya got for the other three spots?
UConn â NET: 2, 29-5, won Big East tourney
Stanford â NET: 4, 28-5, did not win Pac-12 tourney
Indiana â NET: 5, 27-3, did not win Big Ten tourney
Iowa â NET: 6, 26-6, won Big Ten tourney
Virginia Tech â NET: 9, 27-4, won ACC tourney
LSU (NET: 3), Utah (NET: 7), and Notre Dame (NET:  round out the missing single-digit NETers â though none of them are getting any 1-seed buzz, nor will the winner of the Big 12 tourney. |
IU, Iowa, and VT.
I admit to a Big Ten/ACC bias.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. Itâs time we started believing in the potential of women." âMuffet McGraw
âThank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,â Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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