| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
Back to top |
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18031
Location: Queens
Back to top |
 Posted: 03/12/23 8:51 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
I neeeeeeeed dates and times, I am going to be *so busy* omg
_________________
Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
|
|
CompSci87
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 812
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/23 9:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| The men's and women's "Bracketology--Field of 136" discussion is on ESPN at 7 pm tonight. Then the women's actual selection show is on ESPN at 8 pm and continued on ESPNU at 9 pm. Per Comcast. You'd think ESPN would have this info displayed prominently on their WBB webpage, but no, just 5 billion articles by the Cremepuff. |
Did the 136 show say anything about the women? I assumed it would be about the men's bracket only.
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8949
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/23 9:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
If I counted correctly:
5 Big East (1 play in)
5 Big 12
7 Pac 12
7 Big Ten teams (2 are play in teams)
7 SEC teams (1 play in)
8 ACC teams
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/23 9:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| If you listen to the talking heads, there's no reason to play any games. Just hand the trophy to So Caro
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/23 9:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Easiest path for a 1 to FF: SCar
Hardest: VaTech
I can see SCar being the only 1 to make the FF. |
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
whoopsjunkie2
Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 11
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/12/23 11:05 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| calbearman76 wrote: |
| singinerd54 wrote: |
| calbearman76 wrote: |
Finally Oregon is in a very interesting situation. 19 in the NET but with a shaky resume. They only have 2 losses to teams that are not in the tournament (Oregon St and Washington, both on the road) and they have three wins over tourney teams (Portland, USC and Arizona.)
So I will take Columbia, Oregon and West Virginia instead of Charlie Creme's picks of Mississippi St, Kansas and St John's.
I will pick West Virginia and Columbia to make the field over Mississippi St and Kansas. |
What makes you take those three over St John's?
St Johns also has three wins over tourney teams in UConn, Creighton, and Marquette, which is a more impressive set of victories than Oregon's. St Johns only lost to one team that won't be in the tournament (Seton Hall, twice) and I think each teams pair of "bad" losses basically cancel out.
Columbia has two wins over tourney teams in Princeton and Miami, a less impressive slate than St Johns, and also has (much) worse losses in Penn and Vanderbilt. West Virginia does have wins over four or five tourney teams in Iowa State, Baylor (twice), Georgia, Oklahoma State, and Kansas, but also worse losses than St Johns in Penn St and Texas Tech. I can see West Virginia over St Johns, but not Oregon or Columbia (based on their resumes). |
Your points are well taken. As it relates to St John's I don't value their win over UConn because of all the injuries they had at the time. This is very subjective bnut that is wyhat all the prognostications are about. I believe that if there is any relevance to the NET (and I think there is) then their #19 ranking matters (not a lot, but just enough. As for West Virginia"s losses, I believe that for the last few teams in the tourney the wins are more important than the losses. But these are all close calls. We will see in a minute. |
FYI St. John's beat a UConn team that had MORE players available and playing significant minutes than when UConn played South Carolina and Marquette.
Surprised Columbia didn't get a nod honestly, felt they were more deserving than WVU. With that said, not making the Ivy final is a glaringly bad sign.
Didn't think Kansas earned a bid after losing to TCU, at the end of the day, it feels like committee focused on last 5-7 game resume among similar teams.
|
|
ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 6:55 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
| If you listen to the talking heads, there's no reason to play any games. Just hand the trophy to So Caro |
Right? Peck borders on totally unprofessional(not just slightly) with her blatant FANDOM of South Carolina. I don't think I've ever seen two media personalities so blatantly biased towards a team as much as Courtney Lyle and Peck are of South Carolina.
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8949
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 7:28 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| ucbart wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| If you listen to the talking heads, there's no reason to play any games. Just hand the trophy to So Caro |
Right? Peck borders on totally unprofessional(not just slightly) with her blatant FANDOM of South Carolina. I don't think I've ever seen two media personalities so blatantly biased towards a team as much as Courtney Lyle and Peck are of South Carolina. |
Um, have you met Rebecca Lobo and Debbie A? They co-authored the book "How to be a Media Personality Who is Blatantly Biased Towards a Team...and Keep Your Job!"
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
|
|
Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1273
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 7:30 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Tally24 wrote: |
| Creme has seemed fairly certain that Stanford will be a one seed, and I need it explained to me like a kindergartner. I haven’t done many CE hours on bracketology. 🤫 |
Simple.
The powers that be want Stanford as a one seed. So it became a one seed. Don't try to analyze the rationales that were made up after the fact to justify the preordained decision.
Okay okay preordained is probably not a kindergarten term. I'll work on it.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 10:18 am ::: |
Reply |
|
I dunno how it's so tough to comprehend. Charlie Creme (with whom I seldom agree) DID explain it clearly enough:
| Quote: |
Why Stanford got the final No. 1 seed:
Résumé, not recent success, won the night for Stanford. The Cardinal had more wins against the top 50 of the NET than any team in the country expect South Carolina. That key metric and the fact that the Pac-12 was the highest-rated league in the country carried the day for Stanford over UConn and Iowa. |
Now, if you disagree, okay....but PLEASE explain how any of the #2 seeds deserved it more than Stanford. I don't see it.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 12:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| I don't think it matters if you're a 2 vs a 1, especially this year. I would have been totally fine with Stanford getting a 2. You still have to win games.
|
|
singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 1817
Location: Missouri
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 3:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
I dunno how it's so tough to comprehend. Charlie Creme (with whom I seldom agree) DID explain it clearly enough:
| Quote: |
Why Stanford got the final No. 1 seed:
Résumé, not recent success, won the night for Stanford. The Cardinal had more wins against the top 50 of the NET than any team in the country expect South Carolina. That key metric and the fact that the Pac-12 was the highest-rated league in the country carried the day for Stanford over UConn and Iowa. |
Now, if you disagree, okay....but PLEASE explain how any of the #2 seeds deserved it more than Stanford. I don't see it. |
I have no problem with Stanford being a 1 seed ahead of UConn. But if resume is the metric, UConn's is as good as, and maybe better than, Stanford's.
UConn – NET: 2, 29-5, won Big East tourney
Stanford – NET: 4, 28-5, did not win Pac-12 tourney
UConn - 11-3 vs. NET top 25, 14-4 vs. NET top 50, worst loss to NET 55 on 2/21
Stanford - 9-3, 15-4, 68 on 2/5
UConn - avg NET win: 68, avg NET loss: 24
Stanford - 79, 25
best 5 wins in terms of NET rankings:
UConn - 6, 10, 11, 12, 12
Stanford - 7, 15, 18, 19, 19
5 losses in terms of NET rankings:
UConn - 1, 8, 14, 42, 55
Stanford - 1, 7, 22, 31, 68
Stanford hasn't dealt with injuries in the same way as UConn (to my knowledge), too.
Creme literally cherry picked the one stat where Stanford's resume is better than UConn's. I'd value two more top 25 wins more than 1 top 50 win, but that's just me.
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 5:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| singinerd54 wrote: |
I have no problem with Stanford being a 1 seed ahead of UConn. But if resume is the metric, UConn's is as good as, and maybe better than, Stanford's.
UConn – NET: 2, 29-5, won Big East tourney
Stanford – NET: 4, 28-5, did not win Pac-12 tourney
UConn - 11-3 vs. NET top 25, 14-4 vs. NET top 50, worst loss to NET 55 on 2/21
Stanford - 9-3, 15-4, 68 on 2/5
UConn - avg NET win: 68, avg NET loss: 24
Stanford - 79, 25
best 5 wins in terms of NET rankings:
UConn - 6, 10, 11, 12, 12
Stanford - 7, 15, 18, 19, 19
5 losses in terms of NET rankings:
UConn - 1, 8, 14, 42, 55
Stanford - 1, 7, 22, 31, 68
Stanford hasn't dealt with injuries in the same way as UConn (to my knowledge), too.
Creme literally cherry picked the one stat where Stanford's resume is better than UConn's. I'd value two more top 25 wins more than 1 top 50 win, but that's just me. |
Persuasive work, singinerd54. |
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 5:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
All valid points, but....his last line: "That key metric and the fact that the Pac-12 was the highest-rated league in the country carried the day for Stanford over UConn and Iowa" hasta be worth something, especially when the margins of decision are so very thin.
Like Murdle sez: 1, 2? Gotta win, wherever yer planted. And I'd like CT's odds over VA Tech, should chalk hold.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66920
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 6:04 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| I don't think Stanford is the weak link among #1 seeds. There's a reason nobody thinks Virginia Tech will make it to Dallas.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 8:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| I don't think Stanford is the weak link among #1 seeds. There's a reason nobody thinks Virginia Tech will make it to Dallas. |
You mean you and some other UConn people don’t think so.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 9:28 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| The winner in terms psychological edge is Iowa, who can now wear the "disrespected"mantle into an E8 game vs the Trees.
|
|
singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 1817
Location: Missouri
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/23 11:20 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
All valid points, but....his last line: "That key metric and the fact that the Pac-12 was the highest-rated league in the country carried the day for Stanford over UConn and Iowa" hasta be worth something, especially when the margins of decision are so very thin.
Like Murdle sez: 1, 2? Gotta win, wherever yer planted. And I'd like CT's odds over VA Tech, should chalk hold. |
Yeah, I'd rather be in a bracket with Virginia Tech than Stanford or Iowa, and as I said, I'm fine with the committee's choice of Stanford over UConn for a 1 seed.
I don't see why playing in the highest-rated league matters, though, when we're talking about comparing resumes. In addition to all the stats above, UConn played more Quad 1 games and more Quad 2 games, and their SOS was better according to RPI (2 versus 4). According to Massey's SOS rankings, though, Stanford has a better SOS (5 versus 6 [I went for the metric for games already played since Stanford doesn't have a first round opponent yet and that skews it]).
The margins are close all around, but it's pretty clear that UConn's resume is on par with (and just slightly better than) Stanford's.
Last edited by singinerd54 on 03/14/23 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
Posts: 278
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/14/23 12:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| NM
|
|
Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1273
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/14/23 2:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
All valid points, but....his last line: "That key metric and the fact that the Pac-12 was the highest-rated league in the country carried the day for Stanford over UConn and Iowa" hasta be worth something, especially when the margins of decision are so very thin.
|
Serious question - why should the overall strength of the conference have ANY weight in the choice?
While it is obvious that a member of a strong conference will generally have a stronger in conference SOS than a team in a weaker conference, SOS is already considered, probably doubly, because it is looked at on its own and it is a component of NET. While should it get even more weight?
|
|
Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 1273
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/14/23 2:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| duplicate please remove
|
|
readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Durham, NC
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/14/23 3:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| LOL at all the whining about how the strength of a team's conference matters from fans of a team in a weak conference.
_________________
Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
|
|
|
|
