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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 09/02/22 8:12 pm    ::: S. Carolina Cancels BYU Games Reply Reply with quote

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34510145/south-carolina-dawn-staley-cancel-byu-women-basketball-games-racial-incident-volleyball-game

This is behind a paywall.

Quote:
South Carolina women's basketball canceled its two-game series with Brigham Young University after a BYU fan directed racial slurs at a Black Duke volleyball player during a game.

“As a head coach, my job is to do what’s best for my players and staff," said coach Dawn Staley in a release from the South Carolina athletic department. "The incident at BYU has led me to reevaluate our home-and-home, and I don’t feel that this is the right time for us to engage in this series.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2022/09/02/dawn-staley-cancels-south-carolina-byu-series/7976648001/



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Howee



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PostPosted: 09/02/22 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I certainly can't second-guess her decision on this, but it IS a sad state of affairs that she must even process this concern. Unfortunately, both teams are being deprived of the opportunity that comes with 2 good programs meeting, and part of me wishes Dawn might find it to be a STRONG statement that they will be undaunted by what one creep had done. Evil or Very Mad



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/02/22 8:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seriously, when thousands of people are filling your arena you can't guarantee the behavior of each and every one. BYU banned the fan and publicly apologized. What else can they do?



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ridor



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PostPosted: 09/02/22 11:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I had been to Provo before. The problem is that it is not the first (nor the last) time that they did do this. I already saw how awful the student section was during the Virginia-BYU football game last year.

I was glad when Virginia hired new football coach who proceeded to terminate the last couple of games against BYU along with Liberty.

I heard the stories about BYU fans mocking UofU black football players that led the coaches to stop playing against each other for the time being.

Gonzaga basketball fans complained about it as well. Boise State, too. And Wyoming.

BYU & Provo are strange places to check out. They have more ice cream and cookie stores than bars, I believe. Not only that, the place is incredibly too white and conservative whom you can sense that they sneer at the outsiders.

So I can't blame Staley for doing this in the best interest of her players and her program.




Last edited by ridor on 09/03/22 4:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 8:33 am    ::: Re: S. Carolina Cancels BYU Games Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34510145/south-carolina-dawn-staley-cancel-byu-women-basketball-games-racial-incident-volleyball-game

This is behind a paywall.

Quote:
South Carolina women's basketball canceled its two-game series with Brigham Young University after a BYU fan directed racial slurs at a Black Duke volleyball player during a game.

“As a head coach, my job is to do what’s best for my players and staff," said coach Dawn Staley in a release from the South Carolina athletic department. "The incident at BYU has led me to reevaluate our home-and-home, and I don’t feel that this is the right time for us to engage in this series.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2022/09/02/dawn-staley-cancels-south-carolina-byu-series/7976648001/


On the one hand, I get this decision and applaud it.

On the other hand, South Carolina is playing Liberty on Dec. 11.


ucbart



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 9:07 am    ::: Re: S. Carolina Cancels BYU Games Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/34510145/south-carolina-dawn-staley-cancel-byu-women-basketball-games-racial-incident-volleyball-game

This is behind a paywall.

Quote:
South Carolina women's basketball canceled its two-game series with Brigham Young University after a BYU fan directed racial slurs at a Black Duke volleyball player during a game.

“As a head coach, my job is to do what’s best for my players and staff," said coach Dawn Staley in a release from the South Carolina athletic department. "The incident at BYU has led me to reevaluate our home-and-home, and I don’t feel that this is the right time for us to engage in this series.”


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2022/09/02/dawn-staley-cancels-south-carolina-byu-series/7976648001/


On the one hand, I get this decision and applaud it.

On the other hand, South Carolina is playing Liberty on Dec. 11.


Man, does SC offer a master class in opportunism and grand standing that Dawn has taken multiple times or what?


singinerd54



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 9:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cisgender white male here who fully supports Dawn's decision. I had a conversation with a friend about this last night. I'm using pilight's post below as a springboard to all who doubt, question, are disappointed, etc. by Dawn's decision.

pilight wrote:
Seriously, when thousands of people are filling your arena you can't guarantee the behavior of each and every one. BYU banned the fan and publicly apologized. What else can they do?

The problem with this line of thinking is that it centers white feelings and experience, which is the overwhelming historical precedent in this country. Focusing on BYU/the BYU women's basketball team is misguided; it's simply not about them.

We should instead be centering the South Carolina women's basketball team feelings and experience. Dawn's job "is to do what’s best for [her] players and staff". The team and the staff's emotional and physical safety come first. If she, as a Black woman leading a group of predominantly Black young women, believes it's not an emotionally or physically safe place for her players (and her and her staff) to be, then this is exactly what she should do, and she should be applauded for doing it.

Why should the feelings of white people take priority over the safety of Black people?

PUmatty wrote:
On the other hand, South Carolina is playing Liberty on Dec. 11.

Which to me exemplifies that this isn't about principles or punishing a particular group of people, but rather about the emotional and physical safety of her team/staff.

Howee wrote:
Unfortunately, both teams are being deprived of the opportunity that comes with 2 good programs meeting, and part of me wishes Dawn might find it to be a STRONG statement that they will be undaunted by what one creep had done. Evil or Very Mad

I imagine South Carolina doesn't view it this way, in that the "deprivation of opportunity" is outweighed by the worry and concern of playing in that gym. They play a lot of good programs; taking one off the table probably doesn't shift that needle (but again, it's not about the basketball here).


singinerd54



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 9:16 am    ::: Re: S. Carolina Cancels BYU Games Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
Man, does SC offer a master class in opportunism and grand standing that Dawn has taken multiple times or what?

What do you mean? Why do you think Dawn did this? (two separate questions)


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 9:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

singinerd54 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Seriously, when thousands of people are filling your arena you can't guarantee the behavior of each and every one. BYU banned the fan and publicly apologized. What else can they do?

The problem with this line of thinking is that it centers white feelings and experience, which is the overwhelming historical precedent in this country. Focusing on BYU/the BYU women's basketball team is misguided; it's simply not about them.


And yet they're the ones who face the punishment. Contrast this to what happened when a similar incident happened at South Carolina. There was no action taken by the school and the whole incident was quickly swept under the rug and forgotten. Staley said: I stand by our fans. I stand by what they represent. I stand by how they cheer. I stand by every single thing that they bring to the building.



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And we'll keep on fighting till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
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mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
singinerd54 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Seriously, when thousands of people are filling your arena you can't guarantee the behavior of each and every one. BYU banned the fan and publicly apologized. What else can they do?

The problem with this line of thinking is that it centers white feelings and experience, which is the overwhelming historical precedent in this country. Focusing on BYU/the BYU women's basketball team is misguided; it's simply not about them.


And yet they're the ones who face the punishment. Contrast this to what happened when a similar incident happened at South Carolina. There was no action taken by the school and the whole incident was quickly swept under the rug and forgotten. Staley said: I stand by our fans. I stand by what they represent. I stand by how they cheer. I stand by every single thing that they bring to the building.


There is no punishment though, it’s clear Dawn’s players and staff didn’t feel safe, and made the best decision for them.

The feelings of her staff and players are also not relevant to the lack of repercussions from the school to the SC fans - so I’m not really sure how that’s relevant.



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singinerd54



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
singinerd54 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Seriously, when thousands of people are filling your arena you can't guarantee the behavior of each and every one. BYU banned the fan and publicly apologized. What else can they do?

The problem with this line of thinking is that it centers white feelings and experience, which is the overwhelming historical precedent in this country. Focusing on BYU/the BYU women's basketball team is misguided; it's simply not about them.


And yet they're the ones who face the punishment.

Why does BYU's feelings take priority for you over South Carolina's safety?

I'll look at the links when I have more time later, but I second what mercfan said about their lack of relevance (and that it's weird to consider this punishment).


Howee



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 9:58 am    ::: Re: S. Carolina Cancels BYU Games Reply Reply with quote

singinerd54 wrote:
ucbart wrote:
Man, does SC offer a master class in opportunism and grand standing that Dawn has taken multiple times or what?

What do you mean? Why do you think Dawn did this? (two separate questions)

I'm thinking ucbart might have missed PUMatty's sarcasm airplane here:
PUmatty wrote:
On the other hand, South Carolina is playing Liberty on Dec. 11.

I took this to mean that Dawn is ignoring Liberty's status as a bastion of homophobia and/or racism....?

It's all quite multi-faceted: Ridor implies that there's a history of this from BYU. If it's that bad, why did Dawn even consider the game? If it's a one-off, certainly it needs to be addressed head on - again, I'd think playing there and kicking azz might be a huge statement.

Also, while the BYU incident is waaay over the top and totally unacceptable, it happened to a Duke squad, and.....isn't Duke known for its over-the-top Cameron Crazies??

And as 'player safety' is always a concern, in this day and age, I'd probably be more concerned about playing @ TX or Baylor, where 'open carry' and assault rifles are acceptable. Shocked



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Howee



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
The feelings of her staff and players are also not relevant to the lack of repercussions from the school to the SC fans - so I’m not really sure how that’s relevant.


Huhh?? If they are "feeling" unsafe and targeted by racial slurs during a potential visit to BYU, how is that NOT relevant to what happened to the visiting Missouri squad?? It implies that she's calling out BYU for a problem she herself not only tolerated but ENCOURAGED on her own floor.



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
singinerd54 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Seriously, when thousands of people are filling your arena you can't guarantee the behavior of each and every one. BYU banned the fan and publicly apologized. What else can they do?

The problem with this line of thinking is that it centers white feelings and experience, which is the overwhelming historical precedent in this country. Focusing on BYU/the BYU women's basketball team is misguided; it's simply not about them.


And yet they're the ones who face the punishment. Contrast this to what happened when a similar incident happened at South Carolina. There was no action taken by the school and the whole incident was quickly swept under the rug and forgotten. Staley said: I stand by our fans. I stand by what they represent. I stand by how they cheer. I stand by every single thing that they bring to the building.



How is that audit in Arizona coming along? No such "incident" happened in South Carolina, and was proven to not have happened. The school DID take action in coordination with the SEC, and determined there was no "there" there to take punitive action against....


WHat "punishment" are the BYU team experiencing? Will they play against Stanford this season? If not, why are they being punished by Stanford? Will they go against CT on the court in 22-23?? Why aren't you admonishing CT for "punishing" BYU? There are countless reasons why teams schedule each other, and do not schedule each other. Staley is taking a pre-emptive approach to avoid a possible narrative happening during the season, and her reasons seem logical to me. Both BYU and South Carolina will still have fine seasons.....


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Conway Gamecock wrote:
How is that audit in Arizona coming along? No such "incident" happened in South Carolina, and was proven to not have happened. The school DID take action in coordination with the SEC, and determined there was no "there" there to take punitive action against...



Nothing happened at SC in much the same way that nothing happened at BYU

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2022/08/duke-volleyball-byu-police-report-banned-fan

Quote:
Brigham Young University police say that the fan who was banned after Friday’s volleyball match against Duke does not appear to have said a racial slur



_________________
We are the champions, my friends
And we'll keep on fighting till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions of the World
singinerd54



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Conway Gamecock wrote:
How is that audit in Arizona coming along? No such "incident" happened in South Carolina, and was proven to not have happened. The school DID take action in coordination with the SEC, and determined there was no "there" there to take punitive action against...



Nothing happened at SC in much the same way that nothing happened at BYU

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2022/08/duke-volleyball-byu-police-report-banned-fan

Quote:
Brigham Young University police say that the fan who was banned after Friday’s volleyball match against Duke does not appear to have said a racial slur


Why does BYU's feelings take priority for you over South Carolina's safety?


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

singinerd54 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Conway Gamecock wrote:
How is that audit in Arizona coming along? No such "incident" happened in South Carolina, and was proven to not have happened. The school DID take action in coordination with the SEC, and determined there was no "there" there to take punitive action against...



Nothing happened at SC in much the same way that nothing happened at BYU

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2022/08/duke-volleyball-byu-police-report-banned-fan

Quote:
Brigham Young University police say that the fan who was banned after Friday’s volleyball match against Duke does not appear to have said a racial slur


Why does BYU's feelings take priority for you over South Carolina's safety?


Safety? Was someone injured? Were there sticks and stones?



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We are the champions, my friends
And we'll keep on fighting till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions of the World
summertime blues



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cis white female here who supports Dawn's decision and wishes other schools would do the same thing. I also wish that JMU and other schools would take the same stand against Liberty.



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Conway Gamecock wrote:
How is that audit in Arizona coming along? No such "incident" happened in South Carolina, and was proven to not have happened. The school DID take action in coordination with the SEC, and determined there was no "there" there to take punitive action against...



Nothing happened at SC in much the same way that nothing happened at BYU

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2022/08/duke-volleyball-byu-police-report-banned-fan

Quote:
Brigham Young University police say that the fan who was banned after Friday’s volleyball match against Duke does not appear to have said a racial slur



If the police or authorities could not find any evidence of someone doing something, then it was wrong for them to ban the student. Missouri NEVER made any complaints to security or officials during the USC game, nor pointed out ANYONE from the crowd - all their comments came after the game was done and all players had left the floor. USC officials along with SEC officials poured through surveillance video for the game and could not find any instances that looked like what Missouri alleged. There was NO physical human being body that USC could point to to "punish" for any actions.

You have read other comments here from others that state that this type of situation is common for BYU fans and for that area. The Missouri incident involving USC is the ONLY time under Staley's tenure that such accusations ever took place, and we've had far more important games in CLA against far more competitive opponents. The Missouri game was an outlier because the accusations were a lie. At least, nothing was ever proven that they were true, and even Missouri didn't put forth much effort to prove their own words, beyond just speaking them. Richardson for Duke here gave a FAR more detailed, "blow for blow" testimony as to what she feels she experienced, than anything Missouri's AD ever did.....

Dawn Staley predominantly recruits black players. Her recruiting and coaching record is poor when it comes to recruiting and developing white WBB players. Her teams at USC have been predominantly black. Staley nor her own team is going to abide our own fans in the stands using racial epithets during games, even for opponents. You reside in a very sad state of reality to think otherwise. Very little is similar between both situations....


singinerd54



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
singinerd54 wrote:
Why does BYU's feelings take priority for you over South Carolina's safety?


Safety? Was someone injured? Were there sticks and stones?

Seriously? That's your response to overt racism in 2022? Safety is far more than broken bones and ACL tears. Emotional and intellectual are other forms of safety, to name two. I can provide examples of each of those if you'd like.

Your statement implies that their safety is not a concern or their safety is not in danger. What makes you more accurately able to decide if Dawn and the team are safe at BYU than they are for themselves? What position are you in to make that kind of assessment for anyone else (and particularly a group of Black women when we are discussing racism if you are not also Black and female)?


Conway Gamecock



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
singinerd54 wrote:


Why does BYU's feelings take priority for you over South Carolina's safety?


Safety? Was someone injured? Were there sticks and stones?



Seriously? That is where you draw the line? There must be bodily injury?


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My opinion is that Staley is overreacting



_________________
We are the champions, my friends
And we'll keep on fighting till the end
We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for losers
'Cause we are the champions of the World
singinerd54



Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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Location: Missouri


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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Conway Gamecock wrote:
Seriously? That is where you draw the line? There must be bodily injury?

Jinx!! Razz you owe me a UConn win against South Carolina!! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


singinerd54



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
My opinion is that Staley is overreacting

What makes you able to more accurately assess the situation than Staley?


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 09/03/22 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
My opinion is that Staley is overreacting


Are you a part of the F your feelings crowd?



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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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