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Which team(s) do you think have had dynasties?
Houston only
16%
 16%  [ 8 ]
Houston and Minnesota
54%
 54%  [ 26 ]
Houston, Minnesota, and Detroit
16%
 16%  [ 8 ]
Minnesota only
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Minnesota and Detroit
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Houston, Minnesota, Detroit, and Phoenix
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Houston, Minnesota, Detroit, and Seattle
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Houston, Minnesota, and Seattle
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Houston, Minnesota, Detroit, Phoenix, and Seattle
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Houston, Minnesota, Detroit, Phoenix, Seattle, and Los Angeles
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Seattle only
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Seattle and Los Angeles
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Minnesota, Phoenix, Seattle, and Los Angeles
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Another team or combination of teams not listed on here
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
The WNBA has not yet had a dynasty
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 48

Author Message
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 09/13/22 6:09 pm    ::: Dynasties in the W Reply Reply with quote

The category is: WNBA Team Dynasties

How we individually define and thus recognize sports dynasties can and do vary, so I want to know what dynasty/dynasties you think this League has seen/experienced.

How do you define "dynasty" in the context of sports – or at least, this League?

First, read the bottom profiles of each team with multiple titles. (I made the executive decision to exclude teams with 1 or fewer titles.)

Then, look at the poll options very carefully before making your selection. I tried curating them as logically as possible – depending on whether or not you prioritize one or multiple factors like sheer number of titles, length of a dynasty, how many of the same players/coaches were involved in all titles, etc. over the other factors. (Like, maybe you pick 'Minnesota only' because you think they had the longest sustained run and you thought Houston's run wasn't long enough; and you're probably not gonna pick Detroit without also picking Minnesota if you value length of a dynasty over everything else, etc. I can hear the arguments based on technicalities now, but oh well!)

It'd be a helluva lot easier if this poll system allowed you to pick multiple options, but it doesn't, so this is the naturally imperfect result. I tried to put on the right amount of options on here, and am happy to explain them should you have questions about why any one option is there.

And of course, please explain your choice in the replies, especially if your answer choice was closer to the bottom...

From Wikipedia, on the definition(s) of dynasty:

Quote:
In sports, a dynasty is a team or individual that dominates their sport or league for an extended length of time. Some leagues usually maintain official lists of dynasties, often as part of a hall of fame, but in many cases, whether a team or individual has achieved a dynasty is subjective. This can result in frequent topic of debate among sports fans due to lack of consensus and agreement in the many different variables and criteria that fans may use to define a sports dynasty. Merriam-Webster describes a dynasty as a "sports franchise which has a prolonged run of successful seasons". Within the same sport, or even the same league, dynasties may be concurrent with each other.


Some bonus questions include:

—Which team do you think gets to 5 championships first?
—Which team is poised to have the next dynasty?
—Which player(s) do you think have individual player dynasties if individual player dynasties is a concept you subscribe to?

* * *

TEAMS UNDER CONSIDERATION


Houston Comets
—4 titles, all won from '97-'00 (each of the League's first four years)
—100% Title win percentage during that time (4/4)
—Players who were a part of all four title-winning seasons: Janeth Arcain, Cynthia Cooper, Tammy Jackson, Sheryl Swoopes, Tina Thompson
—Players who were part of multiple title-winning seasons: Yolanda Moore, Kim Perrot, Tiffany Woosley ('97, '98); Wanda Guyton ('98, '99); Jen Rizzotti ('99, '00); Monica Lamb ('98, '99, '00)
—Same head coach for all four titles: Van Chancellor

Minnesota Lynx
—4 titles: '11, '13, '15, '17 (span of seven years)
—57% Title win percentage during that time (4/7)
—6 total Finals appearances during that time (incl. '12, '16)
—Players who were a part of all four title-winning seasons: Seimone Augustus, Rebekkah Brunson, Maya Moore, Lindsay Whalen
—Players who were a part of multiple title-winning seasons: Amber Harris, Monica Wright ('11, '13); Devereaux Peters ('13, '15); Sylvia Fowles, Renee Montgomery ('15, '17)
—Same head coach for all four titles: Cheryl Reeve

Detroit Shock
—3 titles: '03, '06, '08 (span of six years)
—50% Title win percentage during that time (3/6)
—4 total Finals appearances during that time (incl. '07)
—Players who were a part of all three title-winning seasons: Cheryl Ford, Deanna Nolan, Elaine Powell
—Players who were a part of multiple title-winning seasons: Swin Cash, Kedra Holland-Corn, Ruth Riley ('03, '06); Kara Braxton, Plenette Pierson, Katie Smith ('06, '08)
—Same head coach for all three titles: Bill Laimbeer

Phoenix Mercury
—3 titles: '07, '09, '14 (span of eight years – the first two within a span of three years)
—Players who were a part of all three title-winning seasons: Diana Taurasi, Penny Taylor
—Players who were a part of multiple title-winning seasons: Kelly Mazzante, Cappie Pondexter, Tangela Smith ('07, '09); DeWanna Bonner ('09, '14)
—Three different head coaches for all three titles: Paul Westhead ('07), Corey Gaines ('09), Sandy Brondello ('14)

Seattle Storm
—4 titles: '04, '10, '18, '20 (17 years – the first two within a span of seven years, the latter two within a span of three years)
—Players who were a part of all four title-winning seasons: Sue Bird
—Players who were a part of multiple title-winning seasons: Lauren Jackson ('04, '10); Jordin Canada, Alysha Clark, Natasha Howard, Crystal Langhorne, Jewell Loyd, Mercedes Russell, Breanna Stewart, Sami Whitcomb ('18, '20)
—Four different head coaches for all four titles: Anne Donovan ('04), Brian Agler ('10), Dan Hughes ('18), Gary Kloppenburg ('20)

Los Angeles Sparks
—3 titles: '01, '02, '16 (span of 16 years – the first two within a span of two years)
—4 total Finals appearances during that time (incl. '03; 5 if you include '17)
—Players who were a part of multiple title-winning seasons: Latasha Byears, Tamecka Dixon, Lisa Leslie, Mwadi Mabika, DeLisha Milton-Jones ('01, '02)
—Same coach for their first two titles: Michael Cooper (Brian Agler coached the '16 team)




Last edited by Stormeo on 09/15/22 1:01 am; edited 2 times in total
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 09/13/22 6:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A dynasty is at least three titles with the same core group of players, usually with the same coach.

The Comets and Lynx obviously qualify.

The Shock are borderline. Only three players were on all three title teams (Cheryl Ford, Tweety Nolan, and Pow Powell). They did have the same coach for all three. I voted yes because it felt like the same team even with the turnover.

The Merc only had two players (Diana Taurasi and Penny Taylor) on all three title teams and three different coaches. I'd say no on them.

None of the rest are even close.



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adamj95



Joined: 09 May 2014
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PostPosted: 09/13/22 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lynx and Comets. Other teams are not dynasties, sustained success over multiple years? Yes, but not dynasties.



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readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7355
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PostPosted: 09/13/22 9:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
Lynx and Comets. Other teams are not dynasties, sustained success over multiple years? Yes, but not dynasties.


Agree. Only Detroit comes even remotely close to Houston and Minnesota.



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8152
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PostPosted: 09/13/22 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's a lot of good work, Stormeo, to get a topic going.

I have a different definition of dynasty, sort of based on NBA basketball: I require four championships within a span of eight years. Since dynasty is a team accomplishment, I don't think same players or same coaches are a requirement at all, although both are usually the case. By my definition, only the Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, Spurs and current Warriors qualify in the NBA.

However, I get the same answer as others for the WNBA: Houston and Minnesota.
johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: 09/13/22 10:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Too much work.


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701



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PostPosted: 09/13/22 10:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
That's a lot of good work, Stormeo, to get a topic going.


thank u

johnjohnW wrote:
Too much work.


I did it tho


johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



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PostPosted: 09/13/22 10:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
That's a lot of good work, Stormeo, to get a topic going.


thank u

johnjohnW wrote:
Too much work.


I did it tho


I ain't reading all that.

Minnesota and Houston?

Did I pass?

Sorry..I'm drunk.


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22470
Location: NJ


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PostPosted: 09/13/22 10:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Who voted for all six? Rolling Eyes



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Silky Johnson



Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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PostPosted: 09/13/22 10:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Who voted for all six? :roll:


A chaos agent.

To be clear, it was some other chaos agent.



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Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 09/13/22 11:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Too much work.


I did it tho


I ain't reading all that.

Minnesota and Houston?

Did I pass?

Sorry..I'm drunk.




johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



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PostPosted: 09/13/22 11:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Too much work.


I did it tho


I ain't reading all that.

Minnesota and Houston?

Did I pass?

Sorry..I'm drunk.




Fair.


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701



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PostPosted: 09/13/22 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nah it's ok jjW, I like your BG tattoo so you've earned a pass from reading & sobriety from me 🙂

Anywho, I pretty much was inspired to do all this and pose the question to y'all originally to convince a well-meaning man elsewhere that actually, no, the Storm didn't enjoy and haven't yet enjoyed a dynasty

which in hindsight surprises me that going to this great of lengths just to back up my assertion didn't make me sad along the way lol

Fwiw, I'm in the Houston+Minny+Detroit camp

I do feel a bit validated now having put all six listed teams down as an option with the multiple votes there


Spark4Life



Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 09/14/22 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You leave LA off as an option? Houston and LA were the first two dynasties and the greatest rivalry the league has ever seen. I'd put my back to back world Champs up against any team.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/14/22 11:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I genuinely wouldn't have guessed a 'Houston & LA' option would be necessary

Sorry.

As long as one isn't allowed to vote for multiple poll options on this polling system, this particular poll was always going to be imperfect with how it could be implemented

Otherwise, on the other poll I did that enables selecting multiple answers, asking this same question, it was a lot easier for a voter to vote their intended combination, and there didn't need to be so many poll options as a result




Last edited by Stormeo on 09/14/22 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Bob Lamm



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Posts: 5065
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PostPosted: 09/14/22 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How do I define a dynasty? The Boston Celtics won 11 NBA championships in 13 years, all with Bill Russell at center. The first nine with Red Auerbach as coach, the last two with Russell as player-coach. And it probably would have been 12 out of 13 championships except that Russell was hurt in 1958 during the playoffs.

For me, all other alleged dynasties are secondary. But I respect other people's views on this.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/14/22 11:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
How do I define a dynasty? The Boston Celtics won 11 NBA championships in 13 years, all with Bill Russell at center. The first nine with Red Auerbach as coach, the last two with Russell as player-coach. And it probably would have been 12 out of 13 championships except that Russell was hurt in 1958 during the playoffs.

For me, all other alleged dynasties are secondary. But I respect other people's views on this.


While I found the "real CP3" tangent in the Sarver thread to be ridiculous, I have to say that there is something a little off-putting about the take that dynasties in the WNBA can't be discussed without putting them in the context of the Boston Celtics. I hope that I'm just reading you wrong, Bob.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/14/22 12:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
While I found the "real CP3" tangent in the Sarver thread to be ridiculous, I have to say that there is something a little off-putting about the take that dynasties in the WNBA can't be discussed without putting them in the context of the Boston Celtics. I hope that I'm just reading you wrong, Bob.


Sorry I wasn't more clear. I definitely did NOT mean that dynasties in the WNBA (or anywhere else) can't or shouldn't be discussed because of those 13 years of Bill Russell's glory. For example, I was an NHL fan (I am no longer) when the New York Islanders won four consecutive Stanley Cups. That was a remarkable achievement. I have huge respect for all the WNBA dynasties being discussed in this thread. And for fans of those great teams.

I did say in my earlier post that I respect other people's views on dynasties. I really do. But for me the Islanders' dynasty, the WNBA dynasties, baseball dynasties (baseball is my favorite sport)... they all depend on definitions of "dynasty" that for me are less demanding than what I actually watched in Bill Russell's years. 11 championships in 13 years. For me, that's staggering.



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Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 09/14/22 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Comets Crying or Very sad and the Lynx. Thee end!


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 09/14/22 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

IMO, it’s teams that have won 3 or more, with some consistency.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 09/14/22 8:55 pm    ::: Re: Dynasties in the W Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Some bonus questions include:

—Which team do you think gets to 5 championships first?
—Which team is poised to have the next dynasty?
—Which player(s) do you think have individual player dynasties if individual player dynasties is a concept you subscribe to?


And why is the answer to the second question and maybe even the first question Vegas 🙃


Queenie



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PostPosted: 09/14/22 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For me, a dynasty implies an additional element of untouchability, which in turn to me implies that the championships must be consecutive. And since I don’t consider two titles a dynasty, that leaves but one contender; much as the only Big Three I will acknowledge are Cooper, Swoopes, and Thompson, the only true WNBA dynasty to me is the original Houston dynasty.

I think it is also not reasonable to bring discussion of men’s dynasties in here simply because of the disparity in league lifespans.



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NYSports56



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PostPosted: 09/15/22 12:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In order to be considered a dynasty, you need to win 4 championships in a row. I know this to be a fact because I am a New York Islanders fan. Smile

Seriously, I think at least 3 championships are necessary for what I'd call a dynasty. I think they need to come within 5 years of each other, although Finals appearances in the off years could extend that range.

By that metric, the Comets and the Lynx are the only dynasties.

However, it occurs to me that my own definition is based upon leagues that have more than double the teams that the WNBA has. Perhaps you need to be a little more dominant in the WNBA to compensate for that. The Buffalo Bills winning the AFC Championship for four years straight back in the 90s was arguably a more difficult feat than what the Comets accomplished based on the number of teams they had to best each season. Note that I said more difficult, not more impressive.

I was going to say that because of that, perhaps only the Comets should be considered. But after reviewing Stormeo's statistics one more time (thanks for all the hard work!), 4 titles in 7 years with 2 additional trips to the Finals is more than enough for me to include the Lynx as well.




Last edited by NYSports56 on 09/15/22 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
ChasingRatDogmaSalade



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PostPosted: 09/15/22 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Spark4Life wrote:
You leave LA off as an option? Houston and LA were the first two dynasties and the greatest rivalry the league has ever seen. I'd put my back to back world Champs up against any team.


You actually did put them up against any team ... and they lost to Detroit.

Twisted Evil
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MNfan22



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PostPosted: 09/15/22 6:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Houston, Minnesota hands down, but gave Detroit a little nod.

Detroit Shock: ’03-08- in their 6 yr run , after winning it all in ’03 they were always in the mix in the East, except for the CT Sun who lost back2back Finals. Detroit picked up in ’06; going to 3 straight Finals and winning 2 of 3. That’s a decent 6 yr run.

Houston Comets; 4 years straight, Championships had to go through Houston.
Only 6 teams to start; ’98 10 teams and added talent to the league. I don’t see any teams running the table 4 yrs in a row any time soon. So Houston did set the bar to start the league.

Minnesota Lynx; 7 year run is a different bar. 7 years straight, Championships had to go through Minnesota.
7 times they played in Western Conf/Semi’s Finals series, 6 times, winners. No others have done that.
2X going to 3 consecutive Finals winning 4 of 6. Took a historic team to keep them from 7 straight Finals (in ’14).
No back2back Championships is about only mark one could have against them during the run; still a form of dominance yet to be matched.



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