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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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 Posted: 09/13/22 4:33 pm ::: |
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| Blaming racist slurs on "Asperger's or autism" is not only ignorant, but a slur in itself against disabled people, and Laursen should be slammed for that alone.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 09/13/22 4:50 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Blaming racist slurs on "Asperger's or autism" is not only ignorant, but a slur in itself against disabled people, and Laursen should be slammed for that alone. |
I didn't read it that way as " blaming" those conditions for his making slurs. He was pretty clear he didn't hear the guy make any slurs, i.e., that there weren't any slurs. I took his comment as suggesting that indistinct speech might have caused the individual to be misunderstood or misheard.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 09/13/22 6:25 pm ::: |
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Dawn Staley's statement on September 9:
“I continue to stand by my position. After my personal research, I made a decision for the well-being of my team. I regret that my university, my athletics director Ray Tanner and others got drawn into the criticism of a choice that I made.”
Yes, this is the same Dawn Staley, a renowned "personal researcher"—perhaps more correctly described as a credulous Twitter addict and self-promoter—who stated that she talked to no one at Duke or even her own team before making her "decision" about "well-being".
Two things are remarkable about Staley's September 9 statement, reaffirming the conclusions of her "personal research":
1. The statement comes nine days after, and directly contrary to, a BYU police report and a BYU student newspaper investigation, which both reported zero corroborating evidence of the alleged fan conduct, and even after the official BYU investigative conclusions reporting the same complete lack of evidence. Facts are apparently irrelevant to Staley.
2. No other coach of any team, in any sport, scheduled to play BYU at any time over the next two years has come to the same decision as Dawn Staley. They all are obviously intellectually and morally deficient in their ability to do "personal research" for the "well-being" of their teams. |
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 09/13/22 6:59 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| No other coach of any team, in any sport, scheduled to play BYU at any time over the next two years has come to the same decision as Dawn Staley. They all are obviously intellectually and morally deficient in their ability to do "personal research" for the "well-being" of their teams. |
I'm sure that's pretty much what she's telling recruits.
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/22 2:29 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Dawn Staley's statement on September 9:
“I continue to stand by my position. After my personal research, I made a decision for the well-being of my team. I regret that my university, my athletics director Ray Tanner and others got drawn into the criticism of a choice that I made.”
Yes, this is the same Dawn Staley, a renowned "personal researcher"—perhaps more correctly described as a credulous Twitter addict and self-promoter—who stated that she talked to no one at Duke or even her own team before making her "decision" about "well-being".
Two things are remarkable about Staley's September 9 statement, reaffirming the conclusions of her "personal research":
1. The statement comes nine days after, and directly contrary to, a BYU police report and a BYU student newspaper investigation, which both reported zero corroborating evidence of the alleged fan conduct, and even after the official BYU investigative conclusions reporting the same complete lack of evidence. Facts are apparently irrelevant to Staley.
2. No other coach of any team, in any sport, scheduled to play BYU at any time over the next two years has come to the same decision as Dawn Staley. They all are obviously intellectually and morally deficient in their ability to do "personal research" for the "well-being" of their teams. |
Wow. The threat Dawn Staley presents to the perceived superiority complexes of fans of UConn and Notre Dame is extraordinary. Get over yourselves, white people and your feelings of white persecution. And yes, I know Notre Dame now has a Black coach of women's bball. But a coach who built a strong program, has won two National Championships (so far) and is among leaders in attendance can simply do things that other coaches want to do but don't have the standing to do.
Let's repeat: a BiPOC player who hears a slur while playing is not committing a "hoax" but is hearing what they've heard many times before, whether is was actually said this time or not. The fact that there is no corroboration with others as to what was actually said proves nothing. This country has been centered around the superiority of white people since its' founding. Non white people are standing up to challenge that superiority, which comes with the idea that shouting slurs is part of the privilege of being innately superior.
It is way past time to shame and diminish the standing of programs that allow - or even encourage - fans to display racist/sexist/homophobic behaviors. I applaud Dawn for protecting her players from locations where this behavior is common. I hope more coaches consider behaviors and attitudes of institutions they schedule their team to play.
Interesting this happens at roughly the same time an NBA/WNBA owner is fined by the NBA millions for his racist/sexist behaviors. About damn time. Get these cretins out of positions of power over others.
And again, you can spare me your fragility of white persecution complex. Buckle up, buttercup.
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Howee
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/22 7:39 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
Let's repeat: a BiPOC player who hears a slur while playing is not committing a "hoax" but is hearing what they've heard many times before, whether is was actually said this time or not. The fact that there is no corroboration with others as to what was actually said proves nothing....
And again, you can spare me your fragility of white persecution complex. Buckle up, buttercup. |
You have NO IDEA what she's 'heard before'. And you're CHOOSING to believe a narrative that suits your desires, actual truth be damned. This is exactly the same dynamic as MAGA folks operate under: "No one's gonna change my mind cuz I KNOW the truth!" (....and I'll have the Crow recipes ready for when BG explains that yes, she DID have the contraband at the airport.  )
I'm a fan of UConn, ND AND SC equally, for their caliber of play and talent. This prinicple is more far-reaching than simple team homerism.
BYU may have every right to be as indignant as Dawn was when Missouri experienced the (allegedly) same thing. And .... 'white fragility' - really?? You're tripping over your own feet in your extreme grasping at *wokeness*. |
You seriously need to listen to what Black people and other BiPOC people have experienced. Seriously. The slurs are a LOT more widespread than you seem to believe. It's not rocket science to know that every one of them has had a racial/sexist/homophobic slur yelled at them. Every. Single. One. If you don't know that, you know nothing about their lives.
And yes, when you get indignant about your own ignorance: that's white fragility. The definition, in fact. I am nowhere close to "woke." I am a white woman who listens to the experiences of others. As a female, I know how much sexist crap has been thrown my way - I remember back to 5 yrs old. I know every grab, attempted rape that has happened to me. It's no stretch at all to believe what others say has happened to them.
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ArtBest23
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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| Posted: 09/14/22 8:51 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Get over yourselves, white people and your feelings of white persecution...The fact that there is no corroboration with others as to what was actually said proves nothing. This country has been centered around the superiority of white people since its' founding. Non white people are standing up to challenge that superiority, which comes with the idea that shouting slurs is part of the privilege of being innately superior...I applaud Dawn for protecting her players from locations where this behavior is common. I hope more coaches consider behaviors and attitudes of institutions they schedule their team to play...And again, you can spare me your fragility of white persecution complex. Buckle up, buttercup. |
Amen to all of this/well said!
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
You seriously need to listen to what Black people and other BiPOC people have experienced. Seriously. The slurs are a LOT more widespread than you seem to believe. It's not rocket science to know that every one of them has had a racial/sexist/homophobic slur yelled at them. Every. Single. One. If you don't know that, you know nothing about their lives.
And yes, when you get indignant about your own ignorance: that's white fragility. The definition, in fact. I am nowhere close to "woke." I am a white woman who listens to the experiences of others. As a female, I know how much sexist crap has been thrown my way - I remember back to 5 yrs old. I know every grab, attempted rape that has happened to me. It's no stretch at all to believe what others say has happened to them. |
As you know, it's hard for people with societally privileged identities to understand the experiences of others. Plus it's also easy for these folks to hide from these realities of the world, as you touched on in this first paragraph, and/or to put themselves in contexts where these problems aren't (so then, of course, they don't exist or people are dramatizing them way out of proportion). I appreciate your willingness to name the white fragility for what it is, too.
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Notably your hero Dawn didn't give a damn about the "behaviors and attitudes" of BYU when she happily signed them up for a home and home series. It's not like anything that's been said about BYU recently is a surprise or of recent origin. Dawn only "cared" about BYU or "protecting her players"  when she saw an opportunity to grab the publicity spotlight for herself. Couldn't pass that up.
If she genuinely wants to "protect her players from locations where this behavior is common" maybe she should never play another home game again. |
As we've discussed, we have quite different views and beliefs about this situation, and I'm trying to understand your perspective more. As a longtime UConn fan, I am not a fan of Dawn's. It reads that you view Dawn's motive for doing this as a publicity opportunity (if I'm wrong, correct me, and ignore the following questions). Do you think she's achieved her publicity "objective"? Do you think she was after a handful of articles written about her/this situation (that's all the publicity I know about, but there certainly could be more)? I'm not understanding what you think her publicity goals (audience, outcomes, etc.) were.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 09/14/22 10:32 pm ::: |
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| singinerd54 wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
You seriously need to listen to what Black people and other BiPOC people have experienced. Seriously. The slurs are a LOT more widespread than you seem to believe. It's not rocket science to know that every one of them has had a racial/sexist/homophobic slur yelled at them. Every. Single. One. If you don't know that, you know nothing about their lives.
And yes, when you get indignant about your own ignorance: that's white fragility. The definition, in fact. I am nowhere close to "woke." I am a white woman who listens to the experiences of others. As a female, I know how much sexist crap has been thrown my way - I remember back to 5 yrs old. I know every grab, attempted rape that has happened to me. It's no stretch at all to believe what others say has happened to them. |
As you know, it's hard for people with societally privileged identities to understand the experiences of others. Plus it's also easy for these folks to hide from these realities of the world, as you touched on in this first paragraph, and/or to put themselves in contexts where these problems aren't (so then, of course, they don't exist or people are dramatizing them way out of proportion). I appreciate your willingness to name the white fragility for what it is, too. |
And....as ANY POSTER HERE SHOULD know....YOU cannot possibly know the experience of each of us other posters expressing opinions here. You cannot possibly know how many discriminatory things I've experienced and witnessed in my life regarding racism, sexism, etc., etc., so you're in no position to determine any levels of "white fragility" here. THAT is actually the definition of being prejudiced. Debates on such a topic as this have no absolute, binary solutions, and individual opinions aren't always the product of who we ARE, as much as what we've experienced.
Now, I've yet to see any response to Glenn's point:
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
2. No other coach of any team, in any sport, scheduled to play BYU at any time over the next two years has come to the same decision as Dawn Staley. They all are obviously intellectually and morally deficient in their ability to do "personal research" for the "well-being" of their teams. |
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 09/15/22 12:52 am ::: |
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| The player may have heard this type of thing before, but if she misheard this time and it really didn't happen, some poor guy has had to deal with the false accusation for 2 weeks until the investigation was completed. He was sitting in the student section, so I'd guess he was a student, which probably means he got labeled as racist by classmates, dorm-mates, professors... Not only that but BYU threw him under the bus by immediately apologizing for his actions. The investigation may have exonerated him but the damage to his reputation is done. Would any of us want to be that kid?
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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| Posted: 09/15/22 7:45 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
Now, I've yet to see any response to Glenn's point:
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
2. No other coach of any team, in any sport, scheduled to play BYU at any time over the next two years has come to the same decision as Dawn Staley. They all are obviously intellectually and morally deficient in their ability to do "personal research" for the "well-being" of their teams. |
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I'm not sure what I'm supposed to respond to. There's no question, I've already stated my position related to other coaches choices in this thread twice, and no one is making claims about intellectual/moral deficiency or superiority (i.e., Glenn is relying upon the strawman logical fallacy).
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| The player may have heard this type of thing before, but if she misheard this time and it really didn't happen, some poor guy has had to deal with the false accusation for 2 weeks until the investigation was completed. He was sitting in the student section, so I'd guess he was a student, which probably means he got labeled as racist by classmates, dorm-mates, professors... Not only that but BYU threw him under the bus by immediately apologizing for his actions. The investigation may have exonerated him but the damage to his reputation is done. Would any of us want to be that kid? |
Oh, where was his name published? Which article was that? Which TikTok account outed him? Hard to have your reputation damaged when no one knows it was you. (They also said he's not a student.)
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myrtle
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 09/15/22 4:54 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
Wow. The threat Dawn Staley presents to the perceived superiority complexes of fans of UConn and Notre Dame is extraordinary. Get over yourselves, white people and your feelings of white persecution. And yes, I know Notre Dame now has a Black coach of women's bball. But a coach who built a strong program, has won two National Championships (so far) and is among leaders in attendance can simply do things that other coaches want to do but don't have the standing to do.
Let's repeat: a BiPOC player who hears a slur while playing is not committing a "hoax" but is hearing what they've heard many times before, whether is was actually said this time or not. The fact that there is no corroboration with others as to what was actually said proves nothing. This country has been centered around the superiority of white people since its' founding. Non white people are standing up to challenge that superiority, which comes with the idea that shouting slurs is part of the privilege of being innately superior.
It is way past time to shame and diminish the standing of programs that allow - or even encourage - fans to display racist/sexist/homophobic behaviors. I applaud Dawn for protecting her players from locations where this behavior is common. I hope more coaches consider behaviors and attitudes of institutions they schedule their team to play.
Interesting this happens at roughly the same time an NBA/WNBA owner is fined by the NBA millions for his racist/sexist behaviors. About damn time. Get these cretins out of positions of power over others.
And again, you can spare me your fragility of white persecution complex. Buckle up, buttercup. |
[/quote]
I might suggest you take a tour of Appalachia and see for yourself the life of privilage those "white" people are living. There are likely more poor white people living in this country than non-white.
Predjudice is alive and well in the US but whether it's white or black anyone painting an entire race with one brush has a prejudicial mind.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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summertime blues
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myrtle
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| Posted: 09/16/22 11:44 am ::: |
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| Summertime, could you please fix the quotes on your post? Thanks.
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Howee
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Howee
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| Posted: 09/16/22 3:14 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
I might suggest you take a tour of Appalachia and see for yourself the life of privilage those "white" people are living. There are likely more poor white people living in this country than non-white.
Predjudice is alive and well in the US but whether it's white or black anyone painting an entire race with one brush has a prejudicial mind. |
MMmnaah....I don't think underprivileged student kids from Appalachia are gonna get racial slurs thrown at them, or get pulled over, then murdered during routine traffic stops cuz of where they come from. I kinda understand your intended point, but to me, it's way more than "poor" or "rich".....that's kinda like comparing apples and .... peanuts.
Racism, prejudice, class privilege, etc. exists ALL OVER the globe, and throughout history. The ancient cradle of civilization in Mesopotamia relied on slaves, as did the Roman empire. India's caste system is eons older than our institutionalized slavery. Check Sudan or Rwanda for blacks killing blacks. Even here in America, native American tribes enslaved each other at every opportunity.
I see America's lingering racial problems as somewhat unique, though: we brought a specific, racially different population to our land expressly for slavery (we didn't conquer another kingdom and bring them home as loot), and after generations of abuse, we officially "free" them, and.....150 years later, we STILL denigrate them, and treat them as 'less than'. The progress is slow, with backward steps for every forward move, but I still think progress is on the plus side.
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linkster
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| Posted: 09/16/22 10:23 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
I might suggest you take a tour of Appalachia and see for yourself the life of privilage those "white" people are living. There are likely more poor white people living in this country than non-white.
Predjudice is alive and well in the US but whether it's white or black anyone painting an entire race with one brush has a prejudicial mind. |
MMmnaah....I don't think underprivileged student kids from Appalachia are gonna get racial slurs thrown at them, or get pulled over, then murdered during routine traffic stops cuz of where they come from. I kinda understand your intended point, but to me, it's way more than "poor" or "rich".....that's kinda like comparing apples and .... peanuts.
Racism, prejudice, class privilege, etc. exists ALL OVER the globe, and throughout history. The ancient cradle of civilization in Mesopotamia relied on slaves, as did the Roman empire. India's caste system is eons older than our institutionalized slavery. Check Sudan or Rwanda for blacks killing blacks. Even here in America, native American tribes enslaved each other at every opportunity.
I see America's lingering racial problems as somewhat unique, though: we brought a specific, racially different population to our land expressly for slavery (we didn't conquer another kingdom and bring them home as loot), and after generations of abuse, we officially "free" them, and.....150 years later, we STILL denigrate them, and treat them as 'less than'. The progress is slow, with backward steps for every forward move, but I still think progress is on the plus side. |
My anscesters were Russian serfs from around 1100 to 1875, when the czar freed them. Then they were loaded into the holds of ships and sent to the US to work for subsistence wages in the CT textile industy. So when compensation for slavery and oppression are dolled out I want my share.
There is a dominant culture in the US and it's oppressive, not only here in the US but all over the world. To describe it as "white" is as good as any I guess but never take that and try and apply it on an individual case. Whether that girl was subjected to what she said or not, she is getting a Duke degree and will enter the dominant culture. Those people living in W Vir coal country will not.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/17/22 1:18 am ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
I might suggest you take a tour of Appalachia and see for yourself the life of privilage those "white" people are living. There are likely more poor white people living in this country than non-white.
Predjudice is alive and well in the US but whether it's white or black anyone painting an entire race with one brush has a prejudicial mind. |
MMmnaah....I don't think underprivileged student kids from Appalachia are gonna get racial slurs thrown at them, or get pulled over, then murdered during routine traffic stops cuz of where they come from. I kinda understand your intended point, but to me, it's way more than "poor" or "rich".....that's kinda like comparing apples and .... peanuts.
Racism, prejudice, class privilege, etc. exists ALL OVER the globe, and throughout history. The ancient cradle of civilization in Mesopotamia relied on slaves, as did the Roman empire. India's caste system is eons older than our institutionalized slavery. Check Sudan or Rwanda for blacks killing blacks. Even here in America, native American tribes enslaved each other at every opportunity.
I see America's lingering racial problems as somewhat unique, though: we brought a specific, racially different population to our land expressly for slavery (we didn't conquer another kingdom and bring them home as loot), and after generations of abuse, we officially "free" them, and.....150 years later, we STILL denigrate them, and treat them as 'less than'. The progress is slow, with backward steps for every forward move, but I still think progress is on the plus side. |
My anscesters were Russian serfs from around 1100 to 1875, when the czar freed them. Then they were loaded into the holds of ships and sent to the US to work for subsistence wages in the CT textile industy. So when compensation for slavery and oppression are dolled out I want my share.
There is a dominant culture in the US and it's oppressive, not only here in the US but all over the world. To describe it as "white" is as good as any I guess but never take that and try and apply it on an individual case. Whether that girl was subjected to what she said or not, she is getting a Duke degree and will enter the dominant culture. Those people living in W Vir coal country will not. |
Have some white people gotten a raw deal and not had the opportunity to escape poverty? Absolutely. But not because they were white, but in spite of being white. Every government program since the depression that created the white middle class was specifically closed to Black people and other people of color. Not saying every white person was able to take advantage of the programs, but NO people of color could.
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FrozenLVFan
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| Posted: 09/17/22 2:40 am ::: |
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If you want to talk about oppression, by far the largest class affected are women. They've been oppressed throughout history in all areas of the globe, and it's still going on today. Witness the current status of abortion and the fact that women are still making 20 cents on the dollar compared to men.
If the alleged incident played out as stated by Richardson, I think half of the alleged abuse was due to her sex and not just race, as demonstrated by the alleged comment that he was going to follow her outside when she went to her bus. That's a typical male threat because it's one of women's worst nightmares.
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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| Posted: 09/17/22 10:16 am ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| If the alleged incident played out as stated by Richardson, I think half of the alleged abuse was due to her sex and not just race, as demonstrated by the alleged comment that he was going to follow her outside when she went to her bus. That's a typical male threat because it's one of women's worst nightmares. |
I don't understand how you arrive at this conclusion. All of the players playing were female*. Richardson, the only player who played in the game that presents as Black (according to my eye test), was the only one (allegedly) targeted. How do you see biological sex factoring in as much as race (or even at all)?
*I assume all the player's gender for sake of this discussion. We know enough now to not assume other's gender identity, but that's a different topic.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 09/17/22 10:22 am ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
My anscesters were Russian serfs from around 1100 to 1875, when the czar freed them. Then they were loaded into the holds of ships and sent to the US to work for subsistence wages in the CT textile industy. So when compensation for slavery and oppression are dolled out I want my share.
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C'mon dude....you GOTTA be able to see the enormous difference between the 2 models!
Your ancestors were "freed" (set FREE) in 1875-ish, and you say they were 'loaded' onto ships....was that forced - as in, they were captives, or did they choose it as a 'better' option than remaining in Russia? They arrived as FREE (if very poor, uneducated) people who were then ALLOWED TO WORK FOR WAGES (even if a mere pittance - it was theirs) They undoubtedly labored in hellacious conditions, and were looked down upon by 'higher' classes around them.
IFF any of your ancestors became somewhat successful and developed their own businesses and micro-economy, did they have to fear that another ethnic group might come 'n burn them outta town? (see: Tulsa) If they served any of the Big Wars, did they have to face being refused benefits because they're descended from Russian serfs? If they wanted to buy property in a specific neighborhood, were they denied financing just cuz they're descended from Russian serfs? (see: Redlining)
Now THIS part you don't address, but....I'll go out on a limb here and presume you, your parents, grandparents, etc., have made huge gains over those original ancestors in terms of your material comfort and acceptance into society (i.e., you don't harbor concern that a routine traffic stop could result in your death cuz you're descended from Russian serfs)
Have you ever had to face a person these days that called you a pejorative name like....I dunno....a Russian Serfy Smurf cuz of who your Great-Great Grandpa was? You know, like the n-word that still gets hurled at people whose Great-Great Grandpas came from Africa.
To say your ancestral history - and deserved compensation - is the same as today's American Blacks is laughable.
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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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