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New York Liberty 2023
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Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Location: Tiburon, CA


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PostPosted: 08/23/22 9:51 pm    ::: New York Liberty 2023 Reply Reply with quote

They made the playoffs while developing their players, and even won a game as the underdog. Not bad Exclamation Now they’re going into next season with the ability to sign some big time free agents to put them over the top. Stewart is the clear target, but what else? What’s the Plan B if Stewart doesn’t come? The world wonders… Razz



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 893
Location: NY


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PostPosted: 08/23/22 10:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

agreed. If they can't get Stewart in Free agency, they should try to trade to get Skylar. Get some Stars players in Brooklyn please Mr Kolb

also watching this game, we need big long guards/SF. Looking at Chicago they got the recipe for success with Cooper and Gardner with their length is a killer.

I would draft Diamond Miller or Rickea Jackson in the 2023 WNBA draft at 6 for more defensive length and scoring potential


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 08/23/22 10:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

After a dismal season, I view the end as quite encouraging. New York won four consecutive crucial games: the last three regular-season games and then Game One against Chicago. They lost the series to a significantly better team.

I see many reasons to be hopeful about 2023. After her first full and healthy WNBA season, Sabrina Ionescu will be even better. We've seen how much better the team looks with a healthy Laney. If Johannes and Han return, each should be better after all the WNBA experience they got this season. I'll hope that Sabally will be healthy and can help, that we'll sign one important free agent, and that we'll get good player in the first round of the draft. Finally, I'll hope that Brondello's Year Two, with most of her roster now experienced in working with her and her system, will help as well.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 08/23/22 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites

* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.

* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.

* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson.


ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 9199
Location: St. Paul, MN


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PostPosted: 08/24/22 12:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Where does Stewart live in the off season when not playing overseas? East coast or West?

I think NY should take one more run at her. That electric atmosphere tonight would be every single night.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/24/22 1:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ChicagoAnnie wrote:
Where does Stewart live in the off season when not playing overseas? East coast or West?

I think NY should take one more run at her. That electric atmosphere tonight would be every single night.


I'd say it's a certainty that the Liberty will offer Stewart everything they can under WNBA rules.



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snlMINAJ



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 08/24/22 4:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites

* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.

* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.

* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson.


MINN could use Dolson. currently Liberty have like 2-3 point guards...


sithinfiltrator



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 254
Location: Seattle, WA


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PostPosted: 08/24/22 5:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stewart owns a home up in Seattle with Marta and Ruby. I don't think she is going anywhere from listening to her talk, but you never know. I think the fact she hasn't signed a contract is because of prioritization in the CBA. the fact that the Storm cored Jewel rather than Stewie tells you that they feel pretty secure that she will resign with Seattle.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 08/24/22 8:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

snlMINAJ wrote:
zune69 wrote:
* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites

* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.

* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.

* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson.


MINN could use Dolson. currently Liberty have like 2-3 point guards...


Dolson for N.Milic would work...but NY would probably have to take back Achonwa's contract.

NY has 2-3 pg's but none of those PG's can effectively guard their position. And the PG who gets the most minutes can't effectively run the offense when she's being guarded by athletic defenders.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 08/24/22 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the Libs’ issues in certain games are way more post oriented than guard oriented. First off, it’s not normal for teams to trap and hedge 30 feet from the basket on all 3 of the opposing guards. Most teams have forwards or posts who would destroy that type of defense just by catching the ball in open gaps or rolling to the basket. I think a lot of the Libs’ inconsistencies this year, both positive and negative are squarely on Dolson’s impact on the team and the system. The positives are that she’s fundamentally sound, physical, a good open three point shooter, an ok finisher with time and space and a good defender in a tight area. The Liberty tend to consequentially defend teams well when those teams don’t spread them out. Also on offense, the Liberty do well even against defensive pressure when the opposing team isn’t quick enough to rotate or completely sell out on the perimeter at the expense of anything inside. That’s why the Liberty have played well against CT and DC a majority of the time.

But against LV and Chicago (with a healthy Parker), Dolson’s weaknesses directly impact how the Liberty perform. Dolson (and Han) are exposed in these high traps and hedges because they’re not at the best slipping and rolling to the basket. They’re also not effective when the defense speeds them up. Howard is similarly exposed anytime she puts the ball on the floor from 20 feet, although she’s a strong pick and roll player in less spread out defenses. Bird had as many turnovers as Sabrina her first two seasons. Slooty’s aren’t much lower. Maybe Diggins would help a little but I think it’s vastly overstated how much of what transpired is on the guards. Similarly on defense, Dolson can’t help and can’t switch. Anytime the Liberty switched every screen against Vegas or Chicago they got annihilated. Not to say that the guards weren’t a factor. But the Liberty protect the rim poorly. And Dolson trying to close out when switched on guards was just an absolute nightmare. Let alone recovering to help inside after a switch. Contrast that with Stewie and Parker being two of the best help defenders in the sport. It’s a whole different situation for the guards on those teams defending as opposed to NY’s situation. Also, the PGs on those teams don’t routinely get trapped because they have forwards who can hurt you when you do.

Even if the Liberty don’t add much outside of Sabally and the draft, if Sabally is healthy, teams aren’t going to be able to get away with pressuring 5 feet behind the three point line without paying a price. Unlike Dolson and Han, Sabally can catch the ball and put it on the floor and finish.

Me personally, if the Liberty can’t get Stewie and if Nneka isn’t realistic, I’ll pass on other vets. Improve from within in 2023 and go all in on vets and free agency in 2024.



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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 08/24/22 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Response to NYL_WNBA_FAN:

I mostly agree with your analysis, including your focus on Dolson. In my view, the focus in many comments here on guards or point guards is off the mark. Sure, the Liberty could be better there, but I don't view that as THE problem or as the central problem.

Three things continued to disturb me throughout the season:

1. Horrible stretches on offense. Yes, if you're a team that shoots lots of threes, you'll have times where nothing goes in. But that shouldn't mean that you can't score in other ways. New York had way too many games this season where they'd score eight, 10, 12 points in a quarter. That's a disaster.

2. Very weak interior defense. Here's where Dolson needs to be mentioned, though the blame doesn't fall entirely on her. But a roster shouldn't have been created with Stefanie Dolson as one of the two front-court starters. She has value, as you've said, but not enough for the crucial role she was given. And Han Xu wasn't ready for such a role yet. For me, the Liberty had only one player on the roster who rated being a starter as a post player.

3. Turnovers. Here's where the guards come in, but turnovers weren't limited to the guards. Last night in the first half Chicago built a nice lead in huge part because of disastrous Liberty turnovers (often live-ball turnovers almost immediately converted into baskets). In other respects the teams were playing about even.

My biggest hope for 2023 in terms of roster change isn't getting a better point guard, though I'm certainly not against that. It's getting a better post player to start up front with Howard. Sabally may help, but I don't want to expect too much from a rookie.



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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 08/24/22 6:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Now that the 2022 season is over, here is my analysis of the roster moves made by Kolb and Brondello since the end of the 2021 season. (If I've got anything wrong or have missed anything, corrections are welcome. As, of course, are any opinions, whether in agreement or disagreement.)

VERY POSITIVE

Getting Johannes and Han to return to New York. I believe that if each continues to return they will be even better with more experience in the WNBA and more comfort living in New York and the U.S.

POSITIVE

Adding Dangerfield to the roster. I'm not sure I'll want her as one of our 12 active players for 2023, but she definitely helped when she joined the team this year.

IFFY

Signing Dolson. Way too much was expected from her. That's not Dolson's fault. She could be a decent post off the bench. Nothing more.

Extending Willoughby's contract. (Is that the right terminology?) I love everything she does off the court. Have to wonder if she'll really help our team ON the court.

Drafting Sabally. A gamble. Might turn out to be brilliant, might not.

Drafting Sika Kone. No way to evaluate this.

NO COMPLAINT HERE

Not bringing back Shook, Jones, Odom, or Holmes. I remain skeptical that any of them will do much in the WNBA. But I'll be happy if I'm proven wrong.

MISTAKES

Signing Allen. I'm putting this one on Brondello. Allen is valuable at times but I'd rather have seen her 2022 minutes go to someone else.

Drafting Cubaj. But only a very minor mistake given that she was #18 in the 2nd round.

MY OVERALL GRADE: B minus.



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 08/25/22 4:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Realities of 2023

Guaranteed contracts (can not be cut without paying them)
Vet Guaranteed (max 6 we currently have 4)
Howard
Laney
Dolson
Allen
fourth year rookie guarantee (new thing can't cut without paying)
Ionescu
Willoughby
rookie contracts (can waive without paying)
Onyenwere
Richards
Reserved (technically not under contract but can only negotiate with NY)
Johannes
Han Xu
Dangerfield
Unsigned rookie contract (I believe can only sign with NY unless they trade their rights)
N. Sabally
Kone
Carrera
Fauthoux
UFA
Whitcomb

options
pick #6
Owusu
D. Miller
Joens
Blackwell
Cooke

UFA posts
Stewart
N. Ogwumike
B. Jones
A. Stevens

UFA PG
Jefferson
Wheeler
L. Allen
Canada
Hartley

RFA Post
McCowan
RFA PG
Mabrey
Heideman


DFWub2018



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
Posts: 1047
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth


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PostPosted: 08/26/22 5:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites

* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.

* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.

* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson.



Not if Dallas doesn't get Bri. Jones first👀


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18013
Location: Queens


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PostPosted: 08/26/22 6:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brionna Jones is going to get money thrown at her from all sides in quantities not usually attainable while remaining fully clothed.



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Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5348
Location: Chocolate Paradise


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PostPosted: 08/26/22 6:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

DFWub2018 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
* Throw a max contract at Stewart & Nneka...See if one of them bites

* Throw a near max contract at B. Jones and A.Stevens...See if one of them bites.

* Make Phoenix and offer for SDS...The Liberty needs a pg.

* If you Land B.Jones, trade Dolson.



Not if Dallas doesn't get Bri. Jones first👀

Free Agency is not a race, it's a bidding war.



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Lib Fan



Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4593
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 08/26/22 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not sure this is the right tread to post this but

Does anyone know what happened to the Liberty poster "Root_Thing" ?
He would always post in the Liberty tread and many times I agreed with
him and many times did not. His posts were always well written.
I also miss his Steven Sondheim avatar.



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ChicagoAnnie



Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 9199
Location: St. Paul, MN


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PostPosted: 08/26/22 9:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I really think NY is one star player away from making a deeper run in the playoffs.

However, do they need to sure up the center spot too? I know they have Dolson for another year, but what about beyond?



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 08/27/22 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
Not sure this is the right tread to post this but

Does anyone know what happened to the Liberty poster "Root_Thing" ?
He would always post in the Liberty tread and many times I agreed with
him and many times did not. His posts were always well written.
I also miss his Steven Sondheim avatar.


I passed this along and he said that he’s not officially gone but has no firm plans to return.



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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 08/27/22 6:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I passed this along and he said that he’s not officially gone but has no firm plans to return.


I'm sending you a private message.



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ChasingRatDogmaSalade



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 560
Location: Las Vegas, NV


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PostPosted: 08/28/22 9:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


I passed this along and he said that he’s not officially gone but has no firm plans to return.


Can you share any flacid plans he might have with us?


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18013
Location: Queens


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PostPosted: 08/28/22 5:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hey, guys, just as a heads-up, even if you opted out for next season, check your credit cards. We told our rep on multiple occasions that we couldn’t commit to a full season next year and wanted to dial back the cost anyway, and I filled out the opt-out form, and they still charged me for our 2023 tickets. Which, let me tell you, was a hell of a surprise when I went to pay my credit card bill and found a $2400 charge.



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Iluvacc



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4167



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PostPosted: 08/28/22 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Brionna Jones is going to get money thrown at her from all sides in quantities not usually attainable while remaining fully clothed.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm not knowledgeable concerning the ins and outs of salaries and contract negotiations, so does Conn have enough money to give Bri Jones a max salary next year?


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15690
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 08/28/22 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Even if the Liberty don’t add much outside of Sabally and the draft, if Sabally is healthy, teams aren’t going to be able to get away with pressuring 5 feet behind the three point line without paying a price. Unlike Dolson and Han, Sabally can catch the ball and put it on the floor and finish.


As Bob has also said, Nyarra can be *iffy*....But: on the premise that she's completely healthy, I'd say she's worth the gamble. I know when Oregon was stumbling (a lot!) last year, she demonstrated not only skill but great leadership when needed. I doubt she'll ever be a dominating player (I'd love to be wrong) but she can be a very strong asset, if she's cultivated correctly.



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Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 08/28/22 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Brionna Jones is going to get money thrown at her from all sides in quantities not usually attainable while remaining fully clothed.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I'm not knowledgeable concerning the ins and outs of salaries and contract negotiations, so does Conn have enough money to give Bri Jones a max salary next year?

Nope.



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