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CalwbbFan



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PostPosted: 06/30/22 8:00 pm    ::: PAC 12 no more Reply Reply with quote

Ugh… https://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/college/article/Stanford-s-Tara-VanDerveer-calls-UCLA-USC-exit-17277984.php

Here’s an overview: https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/AP-source-USC-UCLA-in-process-of-joining-Big-Ten-17277412.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

Quote is from SF Chronicle story (first link).


Quote:
For football, the positives are obvious: a whole lot of money. For almost everything else except for men’s basketball, it gets tricky.

“I mean, this might be great for football, I just have a hard time seeing how it can really play out in a positive way,” said Stanford women’s basketball coach Tara VanDerveer in an interview with The Chronicle. “Just as an example, playing three time zones away. … We just have to figure out how it is going to impact basketball and to keep basketball relevant on the West Coast, with great players, and figure out ways how it’s going to work for us.”

Both UCLA and USC can escape financial penalty by leaving the conference in 2024, after the Pac-12 television rights, of which they are tied to, expire following the 2022-23 school year. The loss of two flagship programs significantly decreases the worth of a television deal for the Pac-12, whose biggest schools are now Oregon and Washington. The revenue loss could have a stark impact on women’s and non-revenue programs across remaining Pac-12 schools.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/30/22 11:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Twisted Evil It's all about football...as usual.


Howee



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PostPosted: 06/30/22 11:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Twisted Evil It's all about football...as usual.

"Football" = $$$$ so it's all about $$$$. I really don't comprehend how/why 2 L.A. schools could find the Big Ten a good move.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/30/22 11:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Twisted Evil It's all about football...as usual.

"Football" = $$$$ so it's all about $$$$. I really don't comprehend how/why 2 L.A. schools could find the Big Ten a good move.



If you read the article:
Quote:
USC and UCLA stand to significantly increase their revenues. The Pac-12 distributed only $19.8 million per school in fiscal year 2021, by far the least among Power 5 conferences. The Big Ten's per-school distribution was $46.1 million, second only to the SEC's $54.6 million.


so even if they spend $10 million more in travel expenses, they still come out ahead by a lot.


ucbart



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PostPosted: 07/01/22 7:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I actually think this might get Cori Close over the hump. There are a lot of east coast kids who probably would love to go to UCLA and ALSO have their families see them play. She is building something at UCLA now and while the B1G is probably a bit deeper of a conference in WBB, the Pac-12 is/was certainly better at the top.

I mean, how will the travel work out? You can't have these kids on 6, east coast road trips a year, can you? That's a lot of travel. Like, UCLA/USC are going to to have to travel to Penn State/Rutgers for Thursday/Sunday games in January, fly back, only to go to Ohio State/Michigan the next weekend? I know it won't be like that, but wow!

This is just wild.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 07/01/22 7:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
I actually think this might get Cori Close over the hump. There are a lot of east coast kids who probably would love to go to UCLA and ALSO have their families see them play. She is building something at UCLA now and while the B1G is probably a bit deeper of a conference in WBB, the Pac-12 is/was certainly better at the top.

I mean, how will the travel work out? You can't have these kids on 6, east coast road trips a year, can you? That's a lot of travel. Like, UCLA/USC are going to to have to travel to Penn State/Rutgers for Thursday/Sunday games in January, fly back, only to go to Ohio State/Michigan the next weekend? I know it won't be like that, but wow!

This is just wild.


Would be nice if they could do something like Rutgers/Maryland one weekend, then make sure that they are home the next week. Maybe an off week or even play each other that weekend - one game at most. If they do have to do back to back road trips, make one of them a 'short' trip, some combination of IA/NE/MN. Or even just one game at NE.



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CalwbbFan



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PostPosted: 07/01/22 6:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Per usual, academics and student well being take a back seat to football cash. They shouldn’t really call it college football…more like a semi-pro league.

I’m glad to fan of D3 sports and the Ivy League. Hope Cal and Stanford can keep a path forward to preserve a wonderful rivalry. 😞


Michael



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PostPosted: 07/02/22 8:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Howee wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Twisted Evil It's all about football...as usual.

"Football" = $$$$ so it's all about $$$$. I really don't comprehend how/why 2 L.A. schools could find the Big Ten a good move.



If you read the article:
Quote:
USC and UCLA stand to significantly increase their revenues. The Pac-12 distributed only $19.8 million per school in fiscal year 2021, by far the least among Power 5 conferences. The Big Ten's per-school distribution was $46.1 million, second only to the SEC's $54.6 million.


so even if they spend $10 million more in travel expenses, they still come out ahead by a lot.


With the addition of USC and UCLA the BT share to schools in 2025 will likely top $100 million per school. That before any other additions. Oregon and Washington have already made inquires to the BT, who is waiting an answer from ND before they commit to jumping up to 20 or standing pat at 16 teams. IF they go to 20 teams, the share per school could easily top $120 million to each school. This is strictly all about money for the schools positioning them for the very real possibility of having to start paying players as employees in the very near future.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 07/02/22 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wish we could separate football from the other sports in terms of conferences. It just doesn't make sense for many of the 'lesser' sports.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 07/02/22 7:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For the Pac, I guess we could/would add some teams like Gonzaga and BYU...but Gonzaga doesn't 'do' football which may exclude them.
Same for some of the California schools. Maybe UNLV and New Mexico? Oklahoma ST?


Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 07/03/22 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I wish we could separate football from the other sports in terms of conferences. It just doesn't make sense for many of the 'lesser' sports.

The other sports could not survive financially without the revenue earned from football.



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okstateguy



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PostPosted: 07/03/22 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
For the Pac, I guess we could/would add some teams like Gonzaga and BYU...but Gonzaga doesn't 'do' football which may exclude them.
Same for some of the California schools. Maybe UNLV and New Mexico? Oklahoma ST?


Speaking from a Big 12 perspective, when the Big 12 was on life support last year, and the PAC thought they were safe from poaching and basically was willing to let the remaining Big 12 schools lose the financial production needed to be releant, that sent a message. I don't think any Big 12 team is going to jump ship to the PAC, who is now losing even greater value, simply because a year ago they were deemed unworthy.

On OK State specifically, they have been a top 25-30 football brand for over a decade, they are top 20 in most sports they field, and their basketball programs are at least recruiting better with potential to become top 20-30 teams in the near future. They have begun to invest more heavily into research, and even more into football. If they leave the Big 12, they have their eyes set on the B1G or SEC, and quite frankly have a better case than most if the decision is based on improving quality and financial gain.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 07/03/22 2:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
myrtle wrote:
For the Pac, I guess we could/would add some teams like Gonzaga and BYU...but Gonzaga doesn't 'do' football which may exclude them.
Same for some of the California schools. Maybe UNLV and New Mexico? Oklahoma ST?


Speaking from a Big 12 perspective, when the Big 12 was on life support last year, and the PAC thought they were safe from poaching and basically was willing to let the remaining Big 12 schools lose the financial production needed to be releant, that sent a message. I don't think any Big 12 team is going to jump ship to the PAC, who is now losing even greater value, simply because a year ago they were deemed unworthy.



you really think adding BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF takes the B12 off life support?

I think both the B12 and the PAC? lose value. That's the whole idea of creating these two super conferences.


okstateguy



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PostPosted: 07/03/22 5:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
okstateguy wrote:
myrtle wrote:
For the Pac, I guess we could/would add some teams like Gonzaga and BYU...but Gonzaga doesn't 'do' football which may exclude them.
Same for some of the California schools. Maybe UNLV and New Mexico? Oklahoma ST?


Speaking from a Big 12 perspective, when the Big 12 was on life support last year, and the PAC thought they were safe from poaching and basically was willing to let the remaining Big 12 schools lose the financial production needed to be releant, that sent a message. I don't think any Big 12 team is going to jump ship to the PAC, who is now losing even greater value, simply because a year ago they were deemed unworthy.



you really think adding BYU, Cincinnati, Houston and UCF takes the B12 off life support?

I think both the B12 and the PAC? lose value. That's the whole idea of creating these two super conferences.


The Big 12 was expected to lose 25-60% of their tv payout, and with the additions, they are expected to stay about the same. I'd say that's far from life support(but still financially vulnerable). If this is all about football viewership, then the Big 12 is undoubtedly in a much better position than both the PAC and ACC once Oregon , Clemson, and Florida State join the list of the poached. The PAC and ACC both struggle heavily to bring in viewers, and it will be much worse when they have no flagship teams to buoy those numbers(like Oregon does in the PAC). Just to illustrate, this link shows just how much more vulnerable the PAC and ACC will be without flagships than the Big 12. In comparison to the 5 year average he did before last season, the PAC upper tier has fallen off drastically in tv viewership, and the ACC has declined as well. The PAC and ACC will struggle to find many prospects who can even match the viewership of those left behind. There will definitely be 2 super conferences, but there will only be one other left resembling a power conference, and that is likely the Big 12, thanks to football.

https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-were-the-most-watched-in-2021-49ef4f315858



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linkster



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PostPosted: 07/06/22 10:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Twisted Evil It's all about football...as usual.

"Football" = $$$$ so it's all about $$$$. I really don't comprehend how/why 2 L.A. schools could find the Big Ten a good move.



The NBA western conference extends from Texas to Minn and west to the Pacific Ocean.


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/06/22 10:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
Howee wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Twisted Evil It's all about football...as usual.

"Football" = $$$$ so it's all about $$$$. I really don't comprehend how/why 2 L.A. schools could find the Big Ten a good move.



The NBA western conference extends from Texas to Minn and west to the Pacific Ocean.


The pros get paid a lot better to travel all that way



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patsweetpat



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PostPosted: 07/10/22 11:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As a UCLA fan and alum, I just want to go on record as saying that I think this move of UCLA's sucks, and I hate it. It's tossing away 100+ years of tradition, for money. It absolutely screws over the other schools in the PAC.

It very likely serves to conclude my interest in college athletics.


patsweetpat



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PostPosted: 07/10/22 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
linkster wrote:
Howee wrote:
myrtle wrote:
Twisted Evil It's all about football...as usual.

"Football" = $$$$ so it's all about $$$$. I really don't comprehend how/why 2 L.A. schools could find the Big Ten a good move.



The NBA western conference extends from Texas to Minn and west to the Pacific Ocean.


The pros get paid a lot better to travel all that way


Also: the pros don't have college courses that they're supposed to be attending on weekdays.


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/02/23 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jon Wilner, who has long covered the Pac-12 conference as a whole and like any longtime reporter has his own sources, put out there a few days ago that he thinks there's essentially a 1 in 3 chance that the Pac folds. https://sports360az.com/2023/01/hotline-mailbag-impact-of-the-comcast-mess-options-for-oregon-and-uw-kliavkoffs-leadership-pac-12-expansion-options-and-more/

Quote:
Pac-12 survival remains a 5.5-point favorite over Pac-12 extinction (a probability of about 67 percent).


Back in the fall, he predicted there'd be a media rights deal by the end of January. Didn't happen. He now says to look for a deal to happen by mid-March – and that it's really time to panic if that doesn't happen. Fwiw. https://sports360az.com/2023/01/pac-12-media-rights-strategy-the-market-has-spoken-time-to-cut-a-deal/

Quote:
Admittedly, [we] erroneously presumed a deal was close at that point — that once the regents sent UCLA on its merry way to the Big Ten, the Pac-12 would finalize its media partnerships in the window before Christmas or the first half of January. It’s now late January, and there is no deal. ...

We expect the process to conclude by the middle of March. If that window comes and goes with no deal imminent, our outlook will take a turn for the worse.


Queenie



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PostPosted: 02/03/23 5:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

fuck football



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 02/03/23 6:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So will it revert to the Pac-10 if they let BYU in? (BYU should not be a mid-major INMSHO)



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 02/03/23 7:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
So will it revert to the Pac-10 if they let BYU in? (BYU should not be a mid-major INMSHO)


BYU has joined the B12


Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/03/23 8:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One opinion held by some is that the Pac won't actually "fold", per se, and instead we'd potentially see this mass exodus of pre-existing Pac teams, and the Pac would respond by replacing the departing members by Mountain West schools, perhaps amongst other mid-major west-ish schools.

—You'd have Arizona, ASU, and Colorado cleanly join the Big 12.
—You'd have Washington & Oregon whoring themselves out big-time to Big Ten executives before inevitably once again not getting an invite they'd suck approximately 1,000 dicks to receive, and likely just walk-of-shaming to the Big 12 – which would love to have them anyway, cuz the Big 12 recognizes Washington & Oregon as the [remaining] crown jewels of the conference that would raise the value of all other Big 12 schools. (Some have said the two schools could also elect to go independent, which, lol at that embarrassing result that they'd probably deserve)
—As a result of the B1G's umpteenth rejection, WSU and ORST would beg Washington & Oregon respectively to make them part of the deal to go to the Big 12. Maybe Washington & Oregon humor them? Or, WA & OR state legislatures make the two flagship schools force the Big 12 to take in all four schools. Otherwise, WSU & ORST are shit outta luck in what remains of the Pac.
—Utah's sort of a wild card, in that they could stay or just sorta find themselves in the Big 12 with everyone else's migration, though it seems like no one [including Utah themselves] really wants them in BYU's new conference – except, of course, for BYU.
—And that leaves Stanford & Cal. Stanford could just chill in what's left of the Pac (though with a bunch of academically lesser schools, they'd suppose), go independent in athletics (and have it not be embarrassing), or even join the Ivy Leagues somehow.
—Cal's athletics meanwhile are so broken and hemorrhaging money already. If the current group of Pac schools disperse and Cal doesn't receive the type of money they'd get in the Pac's next media rights deal, some have suggested that Cal's entire athletics programs in a worst-case scenario could dissolve.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ nothin' any of us peasants can do about what happens next


okstateguy



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PostPosted: 02/03/23 8:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I saw where someone determined that if the top 4 PAC schools of tv value(Oregon, Washington, Arizona State, and Stanford) went to the Big 12, the payments for the league would rise from 32million to 45 miilion. Based off that, if Arizona came in that package and another of the top schools (Cal or Utah), the Big 12 payout could be anywhere between 40-50 million/school.

I don't think there's any possible route for the league as we have known it to survive even if the media deal is within the scope of the Big 12 payout as is.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 02/03/23 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It’s very odd, cuz Oregon & Washington surely would take a[n initial] discount to join the Big Ten. Meanwhile, if they joined the Big 12, it would raise that conference’s overall value including its own annual payouts by their media deal. So really, those two annual payouts from each “Big” conference could theoretically be the exact same… at least, initially.

If OR & WA join the Big 12, I really hope they’d take their siblings with them. Of course, they certainly wouldn’t be if that Big Ten invite ever comes, and I’d welcome that, too. And I wouldn’t mind at this point if we stayed in the Pac and the Pac invited San Diego State & SMU – that could be fun! I don’t care anymore! None of this is in anyone’s control! Lol!!!

(why yes i have gone mad from this & am posting this from solitary confinement while wearing a straitjacket, neither of which are doing their respective intended purposes, tysm for noticing)


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