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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 05/14/22 5:17 pm ::: |
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| Bout has served about half his time. Might as well as well get something for him while you can. If you can get Whelan and Griner for Bout, I say let’s write it up. Run it by Reeve to see if she thinks it’s a good deal. Of course she’ll be partial to anyone named Whelan, no matter how it’s spelled.
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adamj95
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Bob Lamm
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Howee
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| Posted: 05/14/22 8:33 pm ::: |
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| SCook wrote: |
| Hoopsmom wrote: |
| I disagree, it is not automatically racism. I would say apathy. People may or may not like Brittney, and some may use this dislike of her to justify their apathy in this situation. But their dislike can be based on any number of factors. There are players that I like and players that I don’t like. Am I racist because I like some players and don’t like some other players, especially when my like or dislike has nothing to do with their race? |
It's racism. Especially when people are bringing up BG's decision to not be present for the national anthem as a justification for her detainment. It's racism when the detainment report came out and everyone automatically believed it without batting an eye. The comments on this board are a perfect example of that. It's racism when someone's response to the US classifiying BG as wrongfully detained is referred to as, "Some Black Lives Matter BS."
None of this board would've believed this same report if Stewie or Sue were detained in Russia. BG didn't get that luxury. Instead it wasn't that hard to believe and then all the conversation about why she didn't abide by the US's no travel policy and her being "greedy". The tune wouldn't have been the same for someone that looks different from BG and we all know that. |
I have no doubt you're passionate about this situation and its 'unfairness', but I'm not sure how you qualify to make such BROAD statements about "everyone", or mis-characterize others' opinions and observations.
I know my *tune* wouldn't be different by a single note if it had been EDD or Sabrina or ANYone else in Brit's shoes. Implying that ALL of this stems from systemic racism is bordering on irrational, imo. Certainly, ignorance from all directions is no shock, but I don't think it's a common theme here on our board.
Diplomacy in these high-profile cases has a lot of nuance to it. I DON'T think Brit is being as ignored as some might feel.
| Quote: |
Former top Pentagon official Evelyn Farkas hopes the Biden administration explores all options to get Griner and Whelan home, but she points out there is a downside to prisoner exchanges.
“This is the kind of situation that we want to avoid,” said Farkas, the executive director of the McCain Institute, “because the Russians will continue to seize Americans as trade bait if we agree to such swaps.” |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 05/14/22 9:13 pm ::: |
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| I guess I'll have to continue expressing my respect for and solidarity with the words posted on this thread by SCook. (And with the words of mercfan and bcdawg04.) Many thanks to all three of you. Still with you.
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 05/14/22 10:11 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| SCook wrote: |
| Hoopsmom wrote: |
| I disagree, it is not automatically racism. I would say apathy. People may or may not like Brittney, and some may use this dislike of her to justify their apathy in this situation. But their dislike can be based on any number of factors. There are players that I like and players that I don’t like. Am I racist because I like some players and don’t like some other players, especially when my like or dislike has nothing to do with their race? |
It's racism. Especially when people are bringing up BG's decision to not be present for the national anthem as a justification for her detainment. It's racism when the detainment report came out and everyone automatically believed it without batting an eye. The comments on this board are a perfect example of that. It's racism when someone's response to the US classifiying BG as wrongfully detained is referred to as, "Some Black Lives Matter BS."
None of this board would've believed this same report if Stewie or Sue were detained in Russia. BG didn't get that luxury. Instead it wasn't that hard to believe and then all the conversation about why she didn't abide by the US's no travel policy and her being "greedy". The tune wouldn't have been the same for someone that looks different from BG and we all know that. |
I have no doubt you're passionate about this situation and its 'unfairness', but I'm not sure how you qualify to make such BROAD statements about "everyone", or mis-characterize others' opinions and observations.
I know my *tune* wouldn't be different by a single note if it had been EDD or Sabrina or ANYone else in Brit's shoes. Implying that ALL of this stems from systemic racism is bordering on irrational, imo. Certainly, ignorance from all directions is no shock, but I don't think it's a common theme here on our board.
Diplomacy in these high-profile cases has a lot of nuance to it. I DON'T think Brit is being as ignored as some might feel.
| Quote: |
Former top Pentagon official Evelyn Farkas hopes the Biden administration explores all options to get Griner and Whelan home, but she points out there is a downside to prisoner exchanges.
“This is the kind of situation that we want to avoid,” said Farkas, the executive director of the McCain Institute, “because the Russians will continue to seize Americans as trade bait if we agree to such swaps.” |
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Given that she's been very open about her regular CBD use and is now a spokesperson for a company selling same, I'd be inclined to believe a report about Sue Bird being arrested with it in Russia, probably more so than BG. It has nothing to do with race or the national anthem.
I think the Farkas quote hits the nail right on the head as regards a potential prisoner swap. Trading BG for Bout is giving Russia the key to the candy store. Do we really want to give a Russian billionaire arms dealer back to Putin? This is not a clear-cut decision.
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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| Posted: 05/14/22 10:31 pm ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Do we really want to give a Russian billionaire arms dealer back to Putin? This is not a clear-cut decision. |
Speaking of billionaires. It's kind of weird the owner of her team has been quiet, not helpful, etc... (Unless, he's somewhere hiding his yacht and other assets).
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elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 05/15/22 3:17 am ::: |
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lets be honest....there is nothing racist about how people feel about BG....people detest Rapinoe as well....don't take my word for it...you see it on facebook, twitter, etc.....
schadenfreude........
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Luuuc
#NATC
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| Posted: 05/15/22 4:16 am ::: |
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| elsie wrote: |
lets be honest....there is nothing racist about how people feel about BG....people detest Rapinoe as well....don't take my word for it...you see it on facebook, twitter, etc.....
schadenfreude........ |
It's hard to argue with that.
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ChiSky54
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| Posted: 05/15/22 5:33 am ::: |
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i strongly believe racism plays into the overall response, but it is a multi-layered thing to consider why folks respond to certain people in certain circumstances in a certain way.
Years ago, I realized that every time someone seemed to give off some sort of negative vibes in my presence, it wasn't always because I am black. That's of course the first thing they saw. Maybe it was because I am a woman. Maybe they knew or perceived that I am a lesbian. I was too confident and when I spoke - I've always inflected down instead of up at the end of sentences (so my words sounded like a statement instead of a question; on the phone I am often assumed to be a man!). Maybe they didn't like vegetarians. Or the way I dressed. Were they intimidated or threatened and responded out of some insecurities or jealousy? I just know when you "check off enough boxes", the likelihood is greater - but not automatic - that some interactions have the potential for going south.
Bottom line - Brittney is is a horrible situation and we need to not sidetrack ourselves with trying to figure out why, because we will probably never really know. What we can do is speak our outrage to those who can change the situation; pray or send out good energy; let her wife who just graduated without her being there, and the rest of her family know how much support and love she has.
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Howee
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mercfan
Joined: 08 May 2013
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| Posted: 05/15/22 11:04 am ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| elsie wrote: |
lets be honest....there is nothing racist about how people feel about BG....people detest Rapinoe as well....don't take my word for it...you see it on facebook, twitter, etc.....
schadenfreude........ |
It's hard to argue with that. |
It’s not about a dislike for someone personally. It’s about the national response, or lack there of, from seeing one of the best athletes in the world wrongfully detained in a dangerous country.
Megan and BG’s situation would not be the same if the circumstance were flipped. Not from a Russian government pov, but in terms of how outraged and empathetic America would be. The good news is that even Rapinoe knows this and it’s one of the reasons why the right even began to dislike her.
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Luuuc
#NATC
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| Posted: 05/15/22 7:58 pm ::: |
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| mercfan wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| elsie wrote: |
lets be honest....there is nothing racist about how people feel about BG....people detest Rapinoe as well....don't take my word for it...you see it on facebook, twitter, etc.....
schadenfreude........ |
It's hard to argue with that. |
It’s not about a dislike for someone personally. It’s about the national response, or lack there of, from seeing one of the best athletes in the world wrongfully detained in a dangerous country.
Megan and BG’s situation would not be the same if the circumstance were flipped. Not from a Russian government pov, but in terms of how outraged and empathetic America would be. The good news is that even Rapinoe knows this and it’s one of the reasons why the right even began to dislike her. |
When I said "It's hard to argue with that" I just meant it was literally hard to argue with that, because I failed to understand what was being argued in that post. I clearly don't know enough about Rapinoe either because I don't know why she was mentioned (I get that she's an athlete who is white rather than black, but beyond that I don't get the comparison in the context of this issue)
Bottom line though, claiming that there is nothing racist about the way (some) people feel about BG seems patently ridiculous to me. I've seen plenty of racist comments about her, including some surprisingly overt ones, including some from within the WNBA "fan" demographic, so I can only imagine what gets said about her elsewhere.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 05/15/22 8:09 pm ::: |
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https://sports.yahoo.com/russias-asking-price-for-brittney-griner-may-be-notorious-arms-trafficker-004449470.html
Oops. I see this has been discussed earlier. It’s so shameful that Griner committed at most an extremely minor offense (if true), and one that arguably Russian authorities may have looked the other way about in the past. Given that Natasha Howard was allowed to live with her then-wife even though that kind of thing is otherwise frowned upon.
Never mind all the comments you hear from those who criticize Griner and the wnba for their respective stances on social causes. The criticisms of BG have obvious roots in racism. As a country we used to be united on things like this.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 05/15/22 8:28 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
When I said "It's hard to argue with that" I just meant it was literally hard to argue with that, because I failed to understand what was being argued in that post. I clearly don't know enough about Rapinoe either because I don't know why she was mentioned (I get that she's an athlete who is white rather than black, but beyond that I don't get the comparison in the context of this issue)
Bottom line though, claiming that there is nothing racist about the way (some) people feel about BG seems patently ridiculous to me. I've seen plenty of racist comments about her, including some surprisingly overt ones, including some from within the WNBA "fan" demographic, so I can only imagine what gets said about her elsewhere. |
My read on it is that @elsie was trying to downplay/deny any aspect of racism, by saying that Rapinoe gets hated on a bunch, too, and she's not Black, so therefore, the hate directed against Griner has nothing to do with racism. Which is a point of view that is naive, at best, and one that I would personally characterize as specious.
By way of response, @mercfan seems to be saying that the public sentiment about this detainment actually would be different if it was Rapinoe instead of Griner, because Rapinoe is white, something that mercfan seems to believe that Rapinoe would agree with (I happen to share that belief), and would be willing to say out loud, and that that is also one of the reasons why Rapinoe is disliked by so many people.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 05/15/22 8:32 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Never mind all the comments you hear from those who criticize Griner and the wnba for their respective stances on social causes. The criticisms of BG have obvious roots in racism. As a country we used to be united on things like this. |
Her outspoken-ness, plus her sexuality, plus her non-traditionally-feminine appearance, plus her Blackness all seem to coalesce into some kind of Bigotry Voltron, don't it?
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/15/22 8:51 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Never mind all the comments you hear from those who criticize Griner and the wnba for their respective stances on social causes. The criticisms of BG have obvious roots in racism. As a country we used to be united on things like this. |
Her outspoken-ness, plus her sexuality, plus her non-traditionally-feminine appearance, plus her Blackness all seem to coalesce into some kind of Bigotry Voltron, don't it? |
And then you drop that entire package into a country where she sticks out even more like a sore thumb than she does in the US, and one that... um... deals even less well with strangeness than the US does.
And not related to y'all's quotes, but because I don't want to create a second post: @elsie, I would be very interested in hearing you elaborate on your use of schadenfreude there...
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Luuuc
#NATC
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| Posted: 05/15/22 9:03 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| And not related to y'all's quotes, but because I don't want to create a second post: @elsie, I would be very interested in hearing you elaborate on your use of schadenfreude there... |
Ditto! For me that was the most intriguing layer in that whole gateau. An example of how less can be more. Without that one additional word I wouldn't have even responded.
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Her outspoken-ness, plus her sexuality, plus her non-traditionally-feminine appearance, plus her Blackness all seem to coalesce into some kind of Bigotry Voltron, don't it? |
That's very good. Like, look out, "Mothra", you in danger-level good.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 05/15/22 9:19 pm ::: |
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| mercfan wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| elsie wrote: |
lets be honest....there is nothing racist about how people feel about BG....people detest Rapinoe as well....don't take my word for it...you see it on facebook, twitter, etc.....
schadenfreude........ |
It's hard to argue with that. |
It’s not about a dislike for someone personally. It’s about the national response, or lack there of, from seeing one of the best athletes in the world wrongfully detained in a dangerous country. |
Trevor Reed (recently released) and Paul Whelan (still in detention) were both detained in 2019. That's 3 years ago. They're both white. What's your recollection of "American response or lack thereof"? I mean, I remember news tidbits here 'n there. I certainly don't recall national-level public demands for greater government action. Are they less deserving cuz they're not among the "the best athletes in the world"?? Britney (The Player & Person) is very high on our radar cuz of our fandom, so we're more aware of the details. I'm not sure that makes the seeming inaction on her case more egregious than any of the others who've been detained; they may be equally innocent, fwiw.
| mercfan wrote: |
| Megan and BG’s situation would not be the same if the circumstance were flipped. Not from a Russian government pov, but in terms of how outraged and empathetic America would be. The good news is that even Rapinoe knows this and it’s one of the reasons why the right even began to dislike her. |
Now you're delving into the land of hypotheticals. That differential might happen or not, but we don't have any way of verifying that. If you want to insist that there's somehow a different standard for Brit cuz of her race, you certainly may; I just don't get how it helps ANYTHING in the Big Picture.
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Last edited by Howee on 05/16/22 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 05/15/22 11:51 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| mercfan wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| elsie wrote: |
lets be honest....there is nothing racist about how people feel about BG....people detest Rapinoe as well....don't take my word for it...you see it on facebook, twitter, etc.....
schadenfreude........ |
It's hard to argue with that. |
It’s not about a dislike for someone personally. It’s about the national response, or lack there of, from seeing one of the best athletes in the world wrongfully detained in a dangerous country. |
Trevor Reed (recently released) and Paul Whelan (still in detention) were both detained in 2019. That's 3 years ago. They're both white. What's your recollection of "American response or lack thereof"? I mean, I remember news tidbits here 'n there. I certainly don't recall national-level public demands for greater government action. Are they less deserving cuz they're not among the "the best athletes in the world"?? Britney (The Player & Person) is very high on our radar cuz of our fandom, so we're more aware of the details. I'm not sure that makes her case objectively more egregious than any of the others who've been detained; they may be equally innocent.
| mercfan wrote: |
| Megan and BG’s situation would not be the same if the circumstance were flipped. Not from a Russian government pov, but in terms of how outraged and empathetic America would be. The good news is that even Rapinoe knows this and it’s one of the reasons why the right even began to dislike her. |
Now you're delving into the land of hypotheticals. That differential might happen or not, but we don't have any way of verifying that. If you want to insist that there's somehow a different standard for Brit cuz of her race, you certainly may; I just don't get how it helps ANYTHING in the Big Picture. |
The vast majority of Americans aren't outraged or empathetic over either BG's or Rapinoe's hypothetical detention because they don't care or even know about the WNBA, women's soccer, female athletes in general, foreign affairs, Bout, or anything else related to this topic. They're too busy complaining about COVID vaccines, gas prices, and crap they just read on Facebook. Most of them have never heard of Reed or Whelan either.
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hyperetic
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CalwbbFan
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| Posted: 05/17/22 1:23 pm ::: |
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Secretary of State Blinken speaks with Griner's wife:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/17/politics/brittney-griner-wife-blinken-call/index.html?
| Quote: |
| According to a senior State Department official, the top US diplomat told Cherelle Griner that her wife’s release is a top priority for the department and has his full attention. Blinken said the State Department is working on the case day and night, and that Cherelle Griner should not to hesitate to reach out if there’s anything she is not getting. |
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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| Posted: 05/17/22 3:13 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| elsie wrote: |
lets be honest....there is nothing racist about how people feel about BG....people detest Rapinoe as well....don't take my word for it...you see it on facebook, twitter, etc.....
schadenfreude........ |
It's hard to argue with that. |
+1
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GlennMacGrady
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/17/22 3:47 pm ::: |
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In my view, this is doubly terrible news. First, the part that is factual: that they are being denied access to Griner. Second, my reading of the situation: the diplomatic efforts are going so badly that the U.S. Embassy is tweeting about this rather than trying to work it out privately with Russian authorities.
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