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okstateguy



Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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PostPosted: 01/18/22 2:31 pm    ::: Professionalism Standard Reply Reply with quote

With the allegations being levied against Adia Barnes and Kelly Graves, I think this is a topic worth venturing into. For you, what are the professional lines do we think coaches should not cross, whether in practice or games?



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okstateguy
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PostPosted: 01/18/22 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Barnes commenting on the officiating is not the right thing to do. We all know that. Having said that, we all know that it's done all the time. Maybe not as blatantly as she did, but every time a coach gives a dismissive wave toward an official, they are commenting on the officiating. Every time they sit in a post game presser and say that they can't comment on the officiating, they are commenting on the officiating. Besides, she said that visiting teams probably think they get homered at Arizona. She was saying that it's more of a perception than a reality with that comment.

If what Barnes and the player said about Graves is true, that, IMO, is way worse than commenting on the officiating. Cussing at an opposing coach?? Vulgar language?? Really? That's where we're at now?? Then to follow with "it's been blown out of proportion" leads me to think that he did say some things that he knows that he shouldn't have and is trying to minimize it. Kind of reminds me of another coach. Again, if true.



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okstateguy



Joined: 18 Feb 2021
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PostPosted: 01/18/22 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Barnes commenting on the officiating is not the right thing to do. We all know that. Having said that, we all know that it's done all the time. Maybe not as blatantly as she did, but every time a coach gives a dismissive wave toward an official, they are commenting on the officiating. Every time they sit in a post game presser and say that they can't comment on the officiating, they are commenting on the officiating. Besides, she said that visiting teams probably think they get homered at Arizona. She was saying that it's more of a perception than a reality with that comment.

If what Barnes and the player said about Graves is true, that, IMO, is way worse than commenting on the officiating. Cussing at an opposing coach?? Vulgar language?? Really? That's where we're at now?? Then to follow with "it's been blown out of proportion" leads me to think that he did say some things that he knows that he shouldn't have and is trying to minimize it. Kind of reminds me of another coach. Again, if true.


I would hope the PAC would investigate, because if the claims against Graves are true, he probably deserves a fine at minimum, but most likely a small suspension. That said, this is the second time in the past year Barnes has been caught or accused of flipping off on the court. It seems that a pattern is building up with her as well(in her defense, it's nothing certain male coaches haven't gotten away with for decades, ex Bob Knight). This situation aside, it just seems like so many coaches have been caught in complete unprofessional behavior the past few years.

Personally, my standard is don't cuss at fans, refs, or opposing team/coaches, don't use profane hand gestures, and don't use degrading speech or physical behavior towards your own players.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/18/22 5:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A little birdie told me that what Graves actually said was something along the lines of sit down and shut up when she was continually bitching to the refs over every call. And he told the refs they should get her under control. Did he use cuss words in saying that? Probably. But did he personally attack her in a vile way? Not according to my birdie.

That is where I think the line should be drawn. Personal attacks should be off limit. I was going to give some examples but decided that would be in poor taste.

As far as homer calls, yeah it sometimes happens, or appears to happen in the arenas where the crowds are the loudest...Tennessee has traditionally been one of the worst for that IMO.

Speaking of loud crowds, Oregon definitely had one which leaves me to believe Pellington saying she heard Graves all game long saying vile things to Adia is clearly pure BS. Maybe it's a way to earn brownie points with her coach, but in the accuracy department, I would rate it pretty low.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 01/18/22 6:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
Personally, my standard is don't cuss at fans, refs, or opposing team/coaches, don't use profane hand gestures, and don't use degrading speech or physical behavior towards your own players.


Agreed. To me, The Best Coaches will be in their very own impenetrable bubble, focused on their players, their assistants and the game at hand. Their leadership by example is tantamount. Both Pat and Tara come to mind with those descriptions. Others include Gary Blair, Lisa Bluder, Terri Moren, Kelly Graves, (the 1.0 version of) Sherri Coale, and many, many others I don't follow.

ANY coach can have a bad moment in a bad day, but I've followed him since his days at Gonzaga - he's a big part of why I follow OR - and I seriously doubt Miss Pellington's accusation.

That said, I believe there are others responsible for moderating a crowd that gets nasty or vulgar in a big way. I'm normally glad when I see *rowdies* kickin it at a wbb game, but ya....there needs to be limits.



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 01/18/22 10:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
A little birdie told me that what Graves actually said was something along the lines of sit down and shut up when she was continually bitching to the refs over every call. And he told the refs they should get her under control. Did he use cuss words in saying that? Probably. But did he personally attack her in a vile way? Not according to my birdie.

That is where I think the line should be drawn. Personal attacks should be off limit. I was going to give some examples but decided that would be in poor taste.

As far as homer calls, yeah it sometimes happens, or appears to happen in the arenas where the crowds are the loudest...Tennessee has traditionally been one of the worst for that IMO.

Speaking of loud crowds, Oregon definitely had one which leaves me to believe Pellington saying she heard Graves all game long saying vile things to Adia is clearly pure BS. Maybe it's a way to earn brownie points with her coach, but in the accuracy department, I would rate it pretty low.


If you believe the person that told you what Coach Graves said why are you incline to not believe that player that was on the court in front of him for a good portion of the game. Unless the person was Kelly Graves himself, why would someone in the arena which you say is full of a loud crowd be able to hear him, but the player, who at times was literally standing in front of the man, not be able to hear him. And while I don't know who told you the information, I am going to assume this person was in the arena or had to be in someway listening to what was happening in the arena to be able to tell you what he said.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/19/22 12:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Obviously the person close enough to Graves to hear him would be prejudice for him. But I've also seen enough of Graves to find it hard to believe. It would be totally out of character. And if you've ever been in a really loud arena playing basketball, there's no way a player playing on the court spends enough time close enough to hear him continuously reviling her coach. Simply not possible. When it's loud like that you have to get within 10 feet or so. Watch the game tape. How often was she there? Could she have heard one comment sometime. Yes. Possibly twice. More than that, doubtful. So at the least it's a gross exaggeration.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 01/19/22 12:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

okstateguy wrote:
Personally, my standard is don't cuss at fans, refs, or opposing team/coaches, don't use profane hand gestures, and don't use degrading speech or physical behavior towards your own players.


Here are a few more:

No verbal or physical abuse of players, staff, or anyone else.
General professionalism, such as being punctual, organized, and prepared so you can do your job effectively.
No flirting with the players and no sexual relationships.
Don't dress like a slob.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 01/19/22 12:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Obviously the person close enough to Graves to hear him would be prejudice for him. But I've also seen enough of Graves to find it hard to believe. It would be totally out of character. And if you've ever been in a really loud arena playing basketball, there's no way a player playing on the court spends enough time close enough to hear him continuously reviling her coach. Simply not possible. When it's loud like that you have to get within 10 feet or so. Watch the game tape. How often was she there? Could she have heard one comment sometime. Yes. Possibly twice. More than that, doubtful. So at the least it's a gross exaggeration.


Players often talk about how they can hear things in the stands even in loud arenas and they are a lot further from the fans they the players are to the opposing bench. And I don’t recall any one saying it it’s a continuous thing or any players saying he has a reputation for this, so even if it is out of character doesn’t mean it’s not possible.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/19/22 12:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pellington said Barnes was "cussed at ... in the most VULGAR ways the ENTIRE game by Kelly. We could hear it from the floor while PLAYING, in the most HOSTILE environment."

To me, this just sounds like a gross exaggeration. If you want to believe it, go ahead. I guess if the conference really wanted to pursue it, they could get statements from the refs who would presumably hear a lot of it and not have a prejudice.

Personally I can believe he might get pissed off and would say something like "sit the eF down and quit bitching" While that's not 'nice', I wouldn't make it into a federal case. or call it exceptionally vulgar. but everyone has their own standards.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/19/22 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can't stand coaches "working the refs." It was never done in high school or college where I grew up. The only person allowed to talk to a ref was the team captain, and then only to inquire about something technical.

I think anyone on the bench who tries to communicate with or act demonstrative toward a ref should be immediately expelled from the game. One team captain or one assistant coach should be allowed make professional inquiries about calls. Otherwise, everyone has to keep their mouths and gestures shut and await explanations from the refs. That all may sound too harsh, but it would stop the sophomoric shenanigans.

Fans will do what fans will do. But anyone on the bench who talks to an opposing coach or player should also be expelled. I still have distasteful memories of a classless punk shouting horribly vulgar things to another team's player while, in relatively hushed crowd silence, she was shooting foul shots.

I don't see this ref-baiting crap in the world games competitions I watch. Don't know about the regular FIBA or other foreign leagues.
ucbart



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PostPosted: 01/20/22 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I can't stand coaches "working the refs." It was never done in high school or college where I grew up. The only person allowed to talk to a ref was the team captain, and then only to inquire about something technical.

I think anyone on the bench who tries to communicate with or act demonstrative toward a ref should be immediately expelled from the game. One team captain or one assistant coach should be allowed make professional inquiries about calls. Otherwise, everyone has to keep their mouths and gestures shut and await explanations from the refs. That all may sound too harsh, but it would stop the sophomoric shenanigans.

Fans will do what fans will do. But anyone on the bench who talks to an opposing coach or player should also be expelled. I still have distasteful memories of a classless punk shouting horribly vulgar things to another team's player while, in relatively hushed crowd silence, she was shooting foul shots.

I don't see this ref-baiting crap in the world games competitions I watch. Don't know about the regular FIBA or other foreign leagues.


Jeff Walz would be SCREWED. He works the refs and bitches and pisses and moans more than any coach I've ever seen-and it's not close.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 01/20/22 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I can't stand coaches "working the refs." It was never done in high school or college where I grew up. The only person allowed to talk to a ref was the team captain, and then only to inquire about something technical.
.


I agree. It's totally out of hand.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 01/20/22 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The worst example I've seen recently was the SC-LSU game, with Dawn and Kim both going at them Holy heck, that was embarrassing.



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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 01/20/22 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Those PacXII coaches/media days must be fun. A couple years ago CTT had a beef with Rueck when He commented on the Sun Devils style of play likening it to football. She filed a grievance with the league. Now A’dia and Kelly are having a spat.

Weeks back Gerlich and Schaefer also had a confrontation in a BigXII game.


Howee



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PostPosted: 01/20/22 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
Those PacXII coaches/media days must be fun. A couple years ago CTT had a beef with Rueck when He commented on the Sun Devils style of play likening it to football. She filed a grievance with the league. Now A’dia and Kelly are having a spat.

Weeks back Gerlich and Schaefer also had a confrontation in a BigXII game.

I'd call the Kelly-Adia thing more like a "Dust in The Wind" kerfuffle of no consequence. But ya.....more and more, these displays of Bad Judgment In Manners *seem* more commonplace, or.....is it a matter of more visibility with all the social media crap.



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PostPosted: 01/20/22 10:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
I'd call the Kelly-Adia thing more like a "Dust in The Wind" kerfuffle of no consequence.


Well that might be how you, an Oregon die-hard, feel, but I don't think Barnes would be amused by the world "kerfuffle" in this instance.
Shocked


snzuluz



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PostPosted: 01/25/22 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess Gino, Mulkey, and even Summitt would have been declared unprofessional in their reactions to ref's and opponents as well as comments in pressers after the game...Muffet might be thrown in with this bunch as well...


Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 01/25/22 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:


Jeff Walz would be SCREWED. He works the refs and bitches and pisses and moans more than any coach I've ever seen-and it's not close.


Yes Yes Yes! Whew


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