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root_thing
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J-Spoon
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 Posted: 01/11/22 11:49 pm ::: |
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So here is the thing
I am cool with Charles as out first target and would love for her to come back! If she chooses to sign somewhere else so be it.
Unless Washington re-signs Charles I don't think Hines-Allen becomes available. She is a RFA and if Charles goes elsewhere I don't see any reason why Washington would let MHA go (unless maybe they get Meesseman back but I think the Worlds might be a higher priority for her and a bunch of other International players in 22).
I am fine with Dolson on the Liberty at 100k she isn't great but she does a few things not my first choice but I think she could work as a 20 minute a night option if miss out on bigger names and I would try to get R. Allen back at a similar price if possible but neither IMO is a make or break move and I would probably consider other options first.
I would probably be willing to offer M. Russell a decent contract and see if Seattle matches and I think they probably would match unless they end up giving someone like Charles big money instead.
Draft-wise my plan A is pray Austin drops, my plan B is medium/low ceiling high basement Cunane who I think has the tools to be a back up, offensive minded stretch center for at least her rookie scale contract. Sabally misses a lot of games due to injury and Lee looks right on the cusp of being too slow to be a legit pro The difference between a player like Lee and say Dolson is yeah Dolson is pretty slow too but she plays a physical game Lee does most of her best stuff with finesse or her huge height and wingspan advantage but I do wonder if she will be able to do the same thing when being checked or boxed out by the bigger more physical players in the W. Based on her highlight reel if we brought in a veteran post I might consider Sika Kone she looked to have pro size, build and athleticism, if we could afford to wait she could be our Magbegor, And while I think Cunane is the safest bet if we ended up bringing in some posts through free agency I might look at going more need at #5 and consider a back up PG like Henderson who similar to Cunane I think has a high basement (but if Kea comes back healthy maybe we already have out back PG on the roster).
I would also consider packaging the #5 pick with an asset in a trade if we could bring back something more of a sure thing. I tried #5 and Jones for B. Jones and It was kind of wishful thinking maybe if Washington threatens to match our MHA offer #5 and one of our 3rd year players could make it happen in a sign and trade. I would consider the same kind of trade with Seattle for Russell if Seattle was posturing like they would match, I mean of course in both situations we could just make the offer hope the RFA in question signs and try to call their respective teams bluff but if sacrificing the pick a something gets it done for either of those mid/high tier posts I would be willing to do it. I would do #5 and a 3rd year player for Collier but Dallas certainly doesn't need a mother pick or more assets. I would probably make a similar deal for RFA Billings if she had a 3 point shot or was two inches taller.
If Austin is on the board at #3 would I consider #5 and one of Willoughby, Odom, Shook or Jones to move up? Probably would I consider Onyenwere to move up to #3 maybe? Onyenwere and #5 probably not but I could at least make an argument for it, I like Onyenwer but I do think Austin has a more diverse game, plays at a position of greater need and a higher ceiling. Does she reach that ceiling not so sure which Is why I probably wouldn't gamble with both Onyenwere and the pick.
Last edited by J-Spoon on 01/11/22 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/11/22 11:57 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| I would probably make a similar deal for RFA Billings if she had a 3 point shot or was two inches taller. |
It's doable. She needs to talk to NaLyssa Smith.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/12/22 3:58 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
So here is the thing
I am cool with Charles as out first target and would love for her to come back! If she chooses to sign somewhere else so be it.
Unless Washington re-signs Charles I don't think Hines-Allen becomes available. She is a RFA and if Charles goes elsewhere I don't see any reason why Washington would let MHA go (unless maybe they get Meesseman back but I think the Worlds might be a higher priority for her and a bunch of other International players in 22).
I am fine with Dolson on the Liberty at 100k she isn't great but she does a few things not my first choice but I think she could work as a 20 minute a night option if miss out on bigger names and I would try to get R. Allen back at a similar price if possible but neither IMO is a make or break move and I would probably consider other options first.
I would probably be willing to offer M. Russell a decent contract and see if Seattle matches and I think they probably would match unless they end up giving someone like Charles big money instead.
Draft-wise my plan A is pray Austin drops, my plan B is medium/low ceiling high basement Cunane who I think has the tools to be a back up, offensive minded stretch center for at least her rookie scale contract. Sabally misses a lot of games due to injury and Lee looks right on the cusp of being too slow to be a legit pro The difference between a player like Lee and say Dolson is yeah Dolson is pretty slow too but she plays a physical game Lee does most of her best stuff with finesse or her huge height and wingspan advantage but I do wonder if she will be able to do the same thing when being checked or boxed out by the bigger more physical players in the W. Based on her highlight reel if we brought in a veteran post I might consider Sika Kone she looked to have pro size, build and athleticism, if we could afford to wait she could be our Magbegor, And while I think Cunane is the safest bet if we ended up bringing in some posts through free agency I might look at going more need at #5 and consider a back up PG like Henderson who similar to Cunane I think has a high basement (but if Kea comes back healthy maybe we already have out back PG on the roster).
I would also consider packaging the #5 pick with an asset in a trade if we could bring back something more of a sure thing. I tried #5 and Jones for B. Jones and It was kind of wishful thinking maybe if Washington threatens to match our MHA offer #5 and one of our 3rd year players could make it happen in a sign and trade. I would consider the same kind of trade with Seattle for Russell if Seattle was posturing like they would match, I mean of course in both situations we could just make the offer hope the RFA in question signs and try to call their respective teams bluff but if sacrificing the pick a something gets it done for either of those mid/high tier posts I would be willing to do it. I would do #5 and a 3rd year player for Collier but Dallas certainly doesn't need a mother pick or more assets. I would probably make a similar deal for RFA Billings if she had a 3 point shot or was two inches taller.
If Austin is on the board at #3 would I consider #5 and one of Willoughby, Odom, Shook or Jones to move up? Probably would I consider Onyenwere to move up to #3 maybe? Onyenwere and #5 probably not but I could at least make an argument for it, I like Onyenwer but I do think Austin has a more diverse game, plays at a position of greater need and a higher ceiling. Does she reach that ceiling not so sure which Is why I probably wouldn't gamble with both Onyenwere and the pick. |
I’d move up for Austin also. The only problem with Onyenwere and 5 for 3 is that Dallas doesn’t have a lot of roster spots. For NY, I’d make that trade without hesitation though.
I wonder what Dallas has in store. They have lots of young talent. They have young post players already. Would they value Austin the same way NY might? Dallas doesn’t need height as much as NY does.
Also, would Dallas consider taking Sabally to play with her sister? I see Sabally’s value rising as the season goes on. However, I feel like I’m clearly in the minority with that opinion so maybe I’m wrong and overstating her positives.
Either way, I think the Liberty are probably on the unfortunate precipice of a value drop at 5, even for the people who don’t think as highly of Sabally. Unless they get lucky. Does anyone have a consensus selection behind Howard, Austin and Smith? Out of what I’ve seen, I don’t love Joens. I don’t love Lee. I don’t love Hillmon.
The value drop concerns me more than whichever player we may wind up with.
Regarding Dolson/Russell, the reason I don’t want either is bc I envision someone overpaying to around 150k. I could be wrong about that though.
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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 01/12/22 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/12/22 4:09 pm ::: |
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| And I know I’m super intense in general. But I think this off-season is immensely critical to the future. Whatever the Liberty add is probably going to move them away from the lottery. This might be their last top half draft pick for a bit. With talented players in free agency at positions of need, they have to get this right.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 01/12/22 4:30 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
So here is the thing
I am cool with Charles as out first target and would love for her to come back! If she chooses to sign somewhere else so be it.
Unless Washington re-signs Charles I don't think Hines-Allen becomes available. She is a RFA and if Charles goes elsewhere I don't see any reason why Washington would let MHA go (unless maybe they get Meesseman back but I think the Worlds might be a higher priority for her and a bunch of other International players in 22).
I am fine with Dolson on the Liberty at 100k she isn't great but she does a few things not my first choice but I think she could work as a 20 minute a night option if miss out on bigger names and I would try to get R. Allen back at a similar price if possible but neither IMO is a make or break move and I would probably consider other options first.
I would probably be willing to offer M. Russell a decent contract and see if Seattle matches and I think they probably would match unless they end up giving someone like Charles big money instead.
Draft-wise my plan A is pray Austin drops, my plan B is medium/low ceiling high basement Cunane who I think has the tools to be a back up, offensive minded stretch center for at least her rookie scale contract. Sabally misses a lot of games due to injury and Lee looks right on the cusp of being too slow to be a legit pro The difference between a player like Lee and say Dolson is yeah Dolson is pretty slow too but she plays a physical game Lee does most of her best stuff with finesse or her huge height and wingspan advantage but I do wonder if she will be able to do the same thing when being checked or boxed out by the bigger more physical players in the W. Based on her highlight reel if we brought in a veteran post I might consider Sika Kone she looked to have pro size, build and athleticism, if we could afford to wait she could be our Magbegor, And while I think Cunane is the safest bet if we ended up bringing in some posts through free agency I might look at going more need at #5 and consider a back up PG like Henderson who similar to Cunane I think has a high basement (but if Kea comes back healthy maybe we already have out back PG on the roster).
I would also consider packaging the #5 pick with an asset in a trade if we could bring back something more of a sure thing. I tried #5 and Jones for B. Jones and It was kind of wishful thinking maybe if Washington threatens to match our MHA offer #5 and one of our 3rd year players could make it happen in a sign and trade. I would consider the same kind of trade with Seattle for Russell if Seattle was posturing like they would match, I mean of course in both situations we could just make the offer hope the RFA in question signs and try to call their respective teams bluff but if sacrificing the pick a something gets it done for either of those mid/high tier posts I would be willing to do it. I would do #5 and a 3rd year player for Collier but Dallas certainly doesn't need a mother pick or more assets. I would probably make a similar deal for RFA Billings if she had a 3 point shot or was two inches taller.
If Austin is on the board at #3 would I consider #5 and one of Willoughby, Odom, Shook or Jones to move up? Probably would I consider Onyenwere to move up to #3 maybe? Onyenwere and #5 probably not but I could at least make an argument for it, I like Onyenwer but I do think Austin has a more diverse game, plays at a position of greater need and a higher ceiling. Does she reach that ceiling not so sure which Is why I probably wouldn't gamble with both Onyenwere and the pick. |
I’d move up for Austin also. The only problem with Onyenwere and 5 for 3 is that Dallas doesn’t have a lot of roster spots. For NY, I’d make that trade without hesitation though.
I wonder what Dallas has in store. They have lots of young talent. They have young post players already. Would they value Austin the same way NY might? Dallas doesn’t need height as much as NY does.
Also, would Dallas consider taking Sabally to play with her sister? I see Sabally’s value rising as the season goes on. However, I feel like I’m clearly in the minority with that opinion so maybe I’m wrong and overstating her positives.
Either way, I think the Liberty are probably on the unfortunate precipice of a value drop at 5, even for the people who don’t think as highly of Sabally. Unless they get lucky. Does anyone have a consensus selection behind Howard, Austin and Smith? Out of what I’ve seen, I don’t love Joens. I don’t love Lee. I don’t love Hillmon.
The value drop concerns me more than whichever player we may wind up with.
Regarding Dolson/Russell, the reason I don’t want either is bc I envision someone overpaying to around 150k. I could be wrong about that though. |
I was targeting Atl at 3 because They might be interested in a 2 for 1 #5 and something (and IMO this is the last spot Austin would be available because I doubt Atl passes on her if they keep the pick) and
I agree that Dallas at 4 wouldn't have any interest in additional picks or assets and if Austin is still there at 4 I can't imagine Dallas not just scooping her up. I understand they may have a few too many post but Harrison only has a year left and could even been used as trade bait, and while I think Collier, Kuier and Alarie all have potential none is a sure bet and Austin is probably the best two way player of the bunch and Dallas is kind of full at every position ATM (this is an over simplification with over-lapping but they have 3 PG and two others who can play it in a pinch, they have 3 SG, 3 SF probably 5 to 6 player you can legitimately play at the the 4 and at least 3 you can play at the 5 what they really need to do even if it is an over pay is consolidate a number of assets for one better asset, but since this is a liberty thread I won't go it to that here in short they should take best available at 4 at that will certainly be Austin if Atlanta doesn't take her at 3, and Dallas still has pick 6 to dress need. If Dallas goes guard/wing at 4 I could see them doing a sister act with Sabally at pick 6.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/12/22 7:08 pm ::: |
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Sorry man my bad on that. I don’t know why I keep thinking it was Dallas 3 ATL 4 instead of vice versa. But yes Atlanta obviously needs good players on a nearly empty roster.
Totally makes sense.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/13/22 8:44 pm ::: |
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| Update on former Liberty players: Phoenix has extended a qualifying offer to Kia Nurse but has waived Megan Walker. As I recall, on draft night in 2020 there was some surprise that Walker fell to the Liberty and Jonathan Kolb thought this was wonderful for New York. Looking so far like this was one of Kolb's misses. I'm not saying this in a spirit of strong criticism: we know that some draft choices turn out to be surprisingly brilliant and others end up as disappointments.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/14/22 11:59 pm ::: |
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Former Hoops Star-Turned-Pro Finds Silver Lining of Tearing Her Achilles Tendon
| Quote: |
She’s eager to resume her playing career. As she gets closer to her second UVA degree, however, Willoughby is thinking about what her life after basketball might look like.
“There are more interests and passions that I’ve kind of realized that are meaningful to me,” Willoughby said. “The cool thing about Batten is, it’s both leadership and public policy, and I really, really enjoy the leadership aspect and thinking about organizational behavior, cultures, and just leadership in general.”
She would also be interested, Willoughby said, in “some type of, I guess, consulting: looking at different organizations, how they’re functioning, what their deficiencies are, and being able to kind of diagnose and help solve some of those voids in terms of leadership or culture, I think that’s something I would really enjoy, and then I’m also pretty interested in this idea of affordable housing and making it accessible. Obviously in the pandemic that’s a pretty big issue, but even pre-pandemic it’s been a challenge.” |
https://news.virginia.edu/content/former-hoops-star-turned-pro-finds-silver-lining-tearing-her-achilles-tendon
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/15/22 1:45 am ::: |
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Thanks for posting that interesting article about Jocelyn Willoughby. I wished it included discussion of the Read What You Sow book club she founded and ran at Cafe Con Libros bookstore in Brooklyn. That led me to this March 2021 article about Willoughby and the book club, which I don't recall being posted here before.
https://www.si.com/wnba/2021/03/09/jocelyn-willoughby-read-what-you-sow-book-club
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/15/22 9:56 am ::: |
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| Willoughby is so likable. I hope her playing career ascends and she’s able to use that as a platform to spearhead her other interests and ability to advocate for others. When she speaks people seem to listen. I think that she can do great things as a social justice advocate. Whether affiliated with hoops or in her post-basketball career.
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DFWub2018
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DFWub2018
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root_thing
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/15/22 12:18 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Willoughby is so likable. I hope her playing career ascends and she’s able to use that as a platform to spearhead her other interests and ability to advocate for others. When she speaks people seem to listen. I think that she can do great things as a social justice advocate. Whether affiliated with hoops or in her post-basketball career. |
Absolutely right.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/17/22 9:57 am ::: |
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Women’s basketball 24/7 reports that NY is one of 4 candidates Stefanie Dolson is considering. Further, my friend sent me a pic of her and Laney at Barclays Center that came across his Twitter feed.
If the above info is true, I wonder how that impacts other potential candidates. Or if there even are other potential candidates. The report makes it sound as though it’s 4 candidates awaiting Dolson’s decision.
I don’t know how this normally works. Like is NY courting other FA candidates as well? What I’ve never liked about this time period is that you have a lengthy period of rumors.
Two more weeks.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/17/22 10:42 am ::: |
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If you make the following realistic assumptions, NY can probably afford another decent free agent even if they sign Dolson -- assuming she doesn't get a ridiculous contract:
- The Liberty don't re-sign Allen or Gray
- Han stays in China
- Durr isn't ready and ends up being cut or suspended.
- They go with 12 players
- NY keeps the #5 pick and cuts a player to make room for her. Odom played the fewest minutes last year, so let's assume the cut is Leonna.
If all those things happen, NY has $326,990 to spend on two players. Split that any way you like. They also have the option of going with 11 players. You can add another $70,127 by cutting either Jones or Willoughby. That takes you to $397,117 for two players.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/17/22 12:44 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| What I’ve never liked about this time period is that you have a lengthy period of rumors. |
And that's where we are.
IF this is accurate, IF New York is pursuing Dolson, then PERHAPS this means that (a) Kolb and Brondello weren't interested in bringing back Tina Charles; OR (b) perhaps Charles is heading elsewhere.
Aren't guessing games fun? I'm with you; I don't love this one, this annual guessing game.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 01/17/22 4:12 pm ::: |
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Yes. Ifs aren’t fun. I’ve long thought the Libs would draft a post player. If they do get one in free agency I wonder if Destanni Henderson would be a potential draft selection. It would give an option to get Sabrina off the ball.
Just trying to make sense of a situation that involves the scenario of Dolson.
I feel like this draft will have some surprises too.
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Silky Johnson
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 01/17/22 5:23 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Yes. Ifs aren’t fun. I’ve long thought the Libs would draft a post player. If they do get one in free agency I wonder if Destanni Henderson would be a potential draft selection. It would give an option to get Sabrina off the ball.
Just trying to make sense of a situation that involves the scenario of Dolson.
I feel like this draft will have some surprises too. |
I am hoping that Kolb has a lovely surprise up his sleeve, getting someone of note we've never expected. He certainly made bold moves last offseason. I feel certain he's trying for more, but that doesn't mean he can make them happen. The rumor about Dolson is, for me, a suggestion that perhaps his hopes of bold moves are unlikely to work. But it's far too early to conclude that based on a rumor that may be meaningless.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 01/17/22 6:18 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
crazy Liberty plan version 1000
re-sign Charles to ship hunt on her hometown team she grew up watching (borrow some of that Parker narrative)
See if we can get Dolson for not too much (maybe settle for E. Williams if Dolson is too expensive the back up center won't have to score very much or just stick with Shook if we are out of money)
re-sign current Opal R. Allen (or Talbot if we can't afford her)
solve back up PG situation with slight reach at #5 with Henderson who seems like a pretty safe high floor kind of draft pick
Ionescu/Henderson
Whitcomb/Richards/Jones or Durr
Laney/Onyenwere
Charles/Allen/Willoughby
Howard/Dolson
(or move Onyenwere to Willoughby's spot as a back up 4 and bring back Nurse who just played with Sandy on a cheap deal to back up Laney) |
My plan from 4 pages ago where we get both Charles and Dolson and draft Henderson
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True than you'd know. Despite living on the top floor and having a skylight, I still get crappy cellphone reception.