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BamaEd
Joined: 11 May 2014
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Location: United States
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 Posted: 07/06/21 9:29 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Carter's not going anywhere. They'll have a players only meeting during the break and sort everything out. |
Can they sort out why post play has been disappointing? I love EWill and I want her to bring it!
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 07/06/21 9:44 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Carter's not going anywhere. They'll have a players only meeting during the break and sort everything out. |
that's pretty optimistic. maybe, but once enmity is ignited between hotheads, it's pretty difficult to extinguish.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/06/21 9:58 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Carter's not going anywhere. They'll have a players only meeting during the break and sort everything out. |
that's pretty optimistic. maybe, but once enmity is ignited between hotheads, it's pretty difficult to extinguish. |
I am always an optimist. Besides, most of the team will be free agents at the end of the season. Carter, Hawkins, McDonald, and Parker are the only players on the roster under contract for next year. Hayes and E-Will are on the old max, so they can't even sign extensions unless they're willing to play for not much more than that. If they can settle it down for the month or so after the break it will work itself out.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/06/21 11:13 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Carter's not going anywhere. They'll have a players only meeting during the break and sort everything out. |
that's pretty optimistic. maybe, but once enmity is ignited between hotheads, it's pretty difficult to extinguish. |
I am always an optimist. Besides, most of the team will be free agents at the end of the season. Carter, Hawkins, McDonald, and Parker are the only players on the roster under contract for next year. Hayes and E-Will are on the old max, so they can't even sign extensions unless they're willing to play for not much more than that. If they can settle it down for the month or so after the break it will work itself out. |
This is the other reason why you really don't want to be trading Carter away unless you've really decided that she's a complete headcase and not worth the trouble. She's the one that you've got locked down for the next couple of years, and at a cheap price too. Parker and maybe McDonald are the only other ones worth caring about that they have under contract beyond this season, so the others could all walk for nothing.
Worst case, you trade Carter away for pennies on the dollar, and then everyone else that you tried to make happy with that move decides to leave anyway. |
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 5437
Location: Chocolate Paradise
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| Posted: 07/06/21 11:20 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Carter's not going anywhere. They'll have a players only meeting during the break and sort everything out. |
that's pretty optimistic. maybe, but once enmity is ignited between hotheads, it's pretty difficult to extinguish. |
I am always an optimist. Besides, most of the team will be free agents at the end of the season. Carter, Hawkins, McDonald, and Parker are the only players on the roster under contract for next year. Hayes and E-Will are on the old max, so they can't even sign extensions unless they're willing to play for not much more than that. If they can settle it down for the month or so after the break it will work itself out. |
This is the other reason why you really don't want to be trading Carter away unless you've really decided that she's a complete headcase and not worth the trouble. She's the one that you've got locked down for the next couple of years, and at a cheap price too. Parker and maybe McDonald are the only other ones worth caring about that they have under contract beyond this season, so the others could all walk for nothing.
Worst case, you trade Carter away for pennies on the dollar, and then everyone else that you tried to make happy with that move decides to leave anyway. |
Yes, this makes the most sense. Don't trade her. The Olympic break is coming and send everyone to some tropical island to cool off.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 07/07/21 1:03 am ::: |
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The problem is, if she's been a locker room cancer for much of her time with the Dream (or at least most of this season), would being away from the team for over a month will get her to change? And if she doesn't, then why wouldn't things just pick up right where they left off?
I will say, trading her before the trade deadline is almost probably not the best move simply as it pertains to the Dream wanting to get max value for her. Blockbuster deals just don't happen midseason in a League this small. Too many moving parts already.
However, if they think her trade value will plummet between now & the end of the year, or even if they get an outline of an offer that they really intrigues them, then maybe you pull the trigger anyway. I'm pessimistic that the situation will get better or even just not get worse if everyone stays the same, which is why I sort of fall into the trade-her-now camp. I mean, I also wouldn't mind seeing McDonald get a shot at more minutes, and eventually a shot at starting. (And shit, maybe I'm just bloodthirsty for even more excitement in a League that's had a year chock-full of it.  )
If it essentially comes down to choosing Carter vs. choosing the rest of the team's core (CWill, Parker, maybe McDonald is a part of this group), who should be chosen?
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 07/07/21 5:02 am ::: |
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Trade Carter to LA. Derrick Fisher is like Laimbeer - he's played with men in a pro league and has seen much worse than anything Chennedy Carter can allegedly bring. Although if she is suspended for defying the coach, that is probably too much for anyone besides Phil Jackson.
But back 16 years ago Taurasi allegedly had some locker room or ongoing beef with Plenette Pierson and Pierson was shipped out for a 2nd round draft pick. Pierson at the time also had aspersions to her character that went back to college: "Pierson had a reputation for being a malcontent and having attitude problems at Texas Tech. She was suspended in her junior year, but did play her senior year.". But ultimately I don't think she had any more suggestions that she was a "locker room cancer" and the like in her next 12 seasons. Well, she did have some issue with Nolan Richardson that got her quickly traded, but no one here will ding her for that.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/07/21 9:13 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Hard to see a contending team want to screw things up by trading for her right now. |
Are you saying Carter could potentially be a poison pill?
| Randy wrote: |
| Also there is the fact that so many teams are capped out and Dream can't take on enough salary to pick up a salary dump (if the even wanted to). |
Are you saying you can’t afford to take on Achonwa’s contract? It’s a shame. She’s the front court solution you’ve been looking for.
| Randy wrote: |
| In a case like this - it's not a good time for a trade. I think this all blows over after she misses a few games. Might take until the Olympic break is over. A long time for hot heads to cool off. |
I would think so too. Seems like a heat of the moment thing that everyone is blowing up. But the thing is suspending a player is a hard way to heal. You’re messing with a player and agent’s money.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/07/21 9:31 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| I have a better idea. Just let her sit at home and wish for a paycheck. When she tired of that she can come back. If they go some stupid deal like Banham for Carter the WNBA should revoke their franchise and disperse the players. |
Banham took an involuntary pay cut. Even so, I don’t think what she’s making for the rest of the season matches what Carter is making. Now that every player’s salary is guaranteed for the rest of the season, can’t just cut people to make it work out either.
I think Laimbeer could have interest in Carter as an upgrade over Slocum. Riquna Williams plus future consideration for Carter?
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/07/21 10:02 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Carter's not going anywhere. They'll have a players only meeting during the break and sort everything out. |
Oh oh, pilight can be pretty bad at predictions (remember the senate race). Messing with a player’s money is no big deal? And they were so quick to suspend her too.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/07/21 10:05 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Carter's not going anywhere. They'll have a players only meeting during the break and sort everything out. |
Oh oh, pilight can be pretty bad at predictions (remember the senate race). Messing with a player’s money is no big deal? And they were so quick to suspend her too. |
I am very bad at predictions
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 07/07/21 10:07 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| I have a better idea. Just let her sit at home and wish for a paycheck. When she tired of that she can come back. If they go some stupid deal like Banham for Carter the WNBA should revoke their franchise and disperse the players. |
Banham took an involuntary pay cut. Even so, I don’t think what she’s making for the rest of the season matches what Carter is making. Now that every player’s salary is guaranteed for the rest of the season, can’t just cut people to make it work out either.
I think Laimbeer could have interest in Carter as an upgrade over Slocum. Riquna Williams plus future consideration for Carter? |
Why would Laimbeer want to bring a problem child onto a team that could likely win a championship without her? If Carter doesn't like having to give up PT and the ball to the players in Atlanta, she's going to like it even less in LV, and I don't see Liz, Gray, and cast taking crap from her or tolerating her sulking.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/07/21 10:37 am ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| Why would Laimbeer want to bring a problem child onto a team that could likely win a championship without her? |
Carter has two more years under a rookie contract. That makes her a good cheap player that can help navigate salary cap obstacles for the next couple of years.
As far as being a problem child, we don’t really know what’s happening down there. Just people jumping to their own conclusions. Laimbeer has never shied away from difficult players: Cambage, McCoughtry, Riquna “All 18” Williams. He’s making them all work. I think he can relate to them since he was no angel himself as a player.
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| If Carter doesn't like having to give up PT and the ball to the players in Atlanta, she's going to like it even less in LV |
I’m not sure the problem is playing time. The problem might be the losing. The coach alluded to players not liking losing. She wouldn’t be losing in Vegas.
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| I don't see Liz, Gray, and cast taking crap from her or tolerating her sulking. |
I’m trying to grasp the concept of Cambage not tolerating sulking. She’s the queen of sulking.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 07/07/21 10:44 am ::: |
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Though I am a huge proponent of the idea that talent is the most important aspect of success, there are other factors -- and I am unconvinced that Carter's undeniable talent is worth the baggage she brings.
Richyy is right, she is 22, not 23, so there's a chance she'll grow up and realize her previous behavior patterns won't work for her in the long run. But there is also a chance she won't be able to change.
So do I want an attitude problem on a young, developing team? I don't think so, especially if she's the best player.
Do I want an attitude problem on a contender? Not really -- and there's no guarantee that Carter will listen to a veteran coach or veteran players any more than she's listened to anyone so far.
Given the uncertainty, I'm not sure giving up a first-round pick makes sense for anyone right now, though again, it's a roll of the dice. If this is the wakeup call she needed, you get a star instead of a player with less talent.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/07/21 11:07 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Though I am a huge proponent of the idea that talent is the most important aspect of success, there are other factors -- and I am unconvinced that Carter's undeniable talent is worth the baggage she brings.
Richyy is right, she is 22, not 23, so there's a chance she'll grow up and realize her previous behavior patterns won't work for her in the long run. But there is also a chance she won't be able to change.
So do I want an attitude problem on a young, developing team? I don't think so, especially if she's the best player.
Do I want an attitude problem on a contender? Not really -- and there's no guarantee that Carter will listen to a veteran coach or veteran players any more than she's listened to anyone so far.
Given the uncertainty, I'm not sure giving up a first-round pick makes sense for anyone right now, though again, it's a roll of the dice. If this is the wakeup call she needed, you get a star instead of a player with less talent. |
If Atlanta would make the deal, I think it's a no-brainer for Indiana. They have an extra first-rounder (Minnesota's), so they could offer that while still keeping their lottery pick. The team is a mess, so adding a messy player won't hurt in the short-term. In the long-term it could pay huge dividends. If not, they can move on without feeling like they are missing much (a later first-round picks is worth the chance). When you are desperate for talent, there aren't many options and you can't be as picky as you might otherwise.
This is a league where talent wins. You can't do anything without it.
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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| Posted: 07/07/21 11:20 am ::: |
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| Who/What is "All 18"?
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 07/07/21 11:23 am ::: |
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| undersized_post wrote: |
| Who/What is "All 18"? |
Bay Bay. It's a cheap shot at her DV charges.
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/07/21 12:24 pm ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Though I am a huge proponent of the idea that talent is the most important aspect of success, there are other factors -- and I am unconvinced that Carter's undeniable talent is worth the baggage she brings.
Richyy is right, she is 22, not 23, so there's a chance she'll grow up and realize her previous behavior patterns won't work for her in the long run. But there is also a chance she won't be able to change.
So do I want an attitude problem on a young, developing team? I don't think so, especially if she's the best player.
Do I want an attitude problem on a contender? Not really -- and there's no guarantee that Carter will listen to a veteran coach or veteran players any more than she's listened to anyone so far.
Given the uncertainty, I'm not sure giving up a first-round pick makes sense for anyone right now, though again, it's a roll of the dice. If this is the wakeup call she needed, you get a star instead of a player with less talent. |
If Atlanta would make the deal, I think it's a no-brainer for Indiana. They have an extra first-rounder (Minnesota's), so they could offer that while still keeping their lottery pick. The team is a mess, so adding a messy player won't hurt in the short-term. In the long-term it could pay huge dividends. If not, they can move on without feeling like they are missing much (a later first-round picks is worth the chance). When you are desperate for talent, there aren't many options and you can't be as picky as you might otherwise.
This is a league where talent wins. You can't do anything without it. |
Yeah, it's from Atlanta's side that I'd be very reluctant to trade her for around the 9th pick. You'd probably be better off seeing if you could get Sykes from LA or something mid-level like that. Maybe Washington might be worried Hines-Allen is going to be too expensive as an RFA. I'd rather have something vaguely known than a barely mediocre draft pick. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/07/21 1:21 pm ::: |
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| <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VHqkmovrD_4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/07/21 1:56 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Though I am a huge proponent of the idea that talent is the most important aspect of success, there are other factors -- and I am unconvinced that Carter's undeniable talent is worth the baggage she brings.
Richyy is right, she is 22, not 23, so there's a chance she'll grow up and realize her previous behavior patterns won't work for her in the long run. But there is also a chance she won't be able to change.
So do I want an attitude problem on a young, developing team? I don't think so, especially if she's the best player.
Do I want an attitude problem on a contender? Not really -- and there's no guarantee that Carter will listen to a veteran coach or veteran players any more than she's listened to anyone so far.
Given the uncertainty, I'm not sure giving up a first-round pick makes sense for anyone right now, though again, it's a roll of the dice. If this is the wakeup call she needed, you get a star instead of a player with less talent. |
If Atlanta would make the deal, I think it's a no-brainer for Indiana. They have an extra first-rounder (Minnesota's), so they could offer that while still keeping their lottery pick. The team is a mess, so adding a messy player won't hurt in the short-term. In the long-term it could pay huge dividends. If not, they can move on without feeling like they are missing much (a later first-round picks is worth the chance). When you are desperate for talent, there aren't many options and you can't be as picky as you might otherwise.
This is a league where talent wins. You can't do anything without it. |
Yeah, it's from Atlanta's side that I'd be very reluctant to trade her for around the 9th pick. You'd probably be better off seeing if you could get Sykes from LA or something mid-level like that. Maybe Washington might be worried Hines-Allen is going to be too expensive as an RFA. I'd rather have something vaguely known than a barely mediocre draft pick. |
For sure. I'm just pushing back against the idea that Carter is so toxic (or something) that no team would want her.
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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