| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3990
Back to top |
|
MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3990
Back to top |
 Posted: 05/17/22 4:16 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Never mind all the comments you hear from those who criticize Griner and the wnba for their respective stances on social causes. The criticisms of BG have obvious roots in racism. As a country we used to be united on things like this. |
Her outspoken-ness, plus her sexuality, plus her non-traditionally-feminine appearance, plus her Blackness all seem to coalesce into some kind of Bigotry Voltron, don't it? |
Yup. You hit that nail so hard it went through the board.
_________________
Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
|
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/17/22 6:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| MuneravenMN wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Never mind all the comments you hear from those who criticize Griner and the wnba for their respective stances on social causes. The criticisms of BG have obvious roots in racism. As a country we used to be united on things like this. |
Her outspoken-ness, plus her sexuality, plus her non-traditionally-feminine appearance, plus her Blackness all seem to coalesce into some kind of Bigotry Voltron, don't it? |
Yup. You hit that nail so hard it went through the board. |
Yes to NYL_WNBA_FAN, Silky Johnson, and MuneravenMN. Thanks to all of you for your statements.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1474
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/19/22 12:35 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Another story: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/05/brittney-griner-still-isnt-getting-enough-attention.html
| Quote: |
… Both points of view were understandable, but I ultimately sided with the latter: What mattered most was getting Griner home safe, and, lacking any information from inside the Russian government, it seemed best to err on the side of caution. I haven’t written about the case since. It appeared most of the sports media took a similar approach. For weeks there was little mention of Griner on ESPN and WNBA.com or in most sports publications. Former WNBA star Lisa Leslie confirmed the media blackout, saying she was told “not to make a big fuss” at first. It wasn’t just the media: NBA Commissioner Adam Silver said in an interview on Tuesday that the league had been in contact with the White House and State Department, and deliberately took a low-key approach in the early days of Griner’s detention.
But this strategy hasn’t worked. Two months later, Griner — who, like many WNBA players, has played in a Russian league to supplement her income for years — remains in prison. Her lawyer said over the weekend that Griner’s “pretrial detention” has been extended for a month, though he expressed hope that her trial would begin soon. In another disturbing turn, the Russian news agency TASS reported that negotiations are under way for the government to exchange Griner with a man the outlet describes as “Russian entrepreneur Viktor Bout.” Bout is actually a notorious arms dealer, who The New Yorker labeled “the quintessential figure of international crime.” He has been in a federal penitentiary in Illinois since 2012. The U.S. has been fighting Russian attempts to get him back for years. If someone like Bout is the asking price for Griner’s freedom, she isn’t getting out of Russia anytime soon... |
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32341
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/19/22 7:37 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Shades wrote: |
| Bout has served about half his time. Might as well as well get something for him while you can. If you can get Whelan and Griner for Bout, I say let’s write it up. |
I agree. the guy has been in jail 10 years. Let the Russkies have him.
|
|
CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1474
Back to top |
|
RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6887
Location: Home
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/22/22 1:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| MuneravenMN wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Never mind all the comments you hear from those who criticize Griner and the wnba for their respective stances on social causes. The criticisms of BG have obvious roots in racism. As a country we used to be united on things like this. |
Her outspoken-ness, plus her sexuality, plus her non-traditionally-feminine appearance, plus her Blackness all seem to coalesce into some kind of Bigotry Voltron, don't it? |
Yup. You hit that nail so hard it went through the board. |
Yes to NYL_WNBA_FAN, Silky Johnson, and MuneravenMN. Thanks to all of you for your statements. |
I would gladly trade the four of you for BG.
|
|
Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18078
Location: Queens
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/22/22 2:05 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| RavenDog wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| MuneravenMN wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Never mind all the comments you hear from those who criticize Griner and the wnba for their respective stances on social causes. The criticisms of BG have obvious roots in racism. As a country we used to be united on things like this. |
Her outspoken-ness, plus her sexuality, plus her non-traditionally-feminine appearance, plus her Blackness all seem to coalesce into some kind of Bigotry Voltron, don't it? |
Yup. You hit that nail so hard it went through the board. |
Yes to NYL_WNBA_FAN, Silky Johnson, and MuneravenMN. Thanks to all of you for your statements. |
I would gladly trade the four of you for BG. |
...the fuck.
_________________
"We all have a platform. We all have a voice & they all hold weight. Silence is a luxury."
|
|
MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3990
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/23/22 12:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| RavenDog wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| MuneravenMN wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Never mind all the comments you hear from those who criticize Griner and the wnba for their respective stances on social causes. The criticisms of BG have obvious roots in racism. As a country we used to be united on things like this. |
Her outspoken-ness, plus her sexuality, plus her non-traditionally-feminine appearance, plus her Blackness all seem to coalesce into some kind of Bigotry Voltron, don't it? |
Yup. You hit that nail so hard it went through the board. |
Yes to NYL_WNBA_FAN, Silky Johnson, and MuneravenMN. Thanks to all of you for your statements. |
I would gladly trade the four of you for BG. |
You know that feeling you get when someone obviously HATES you and you don't even actually know who they are or what their problem is? LOL!
Last time this happened to me the person thought I was spying on them via discarded Coke cans in the gutter. I'm not sure what the Coke cans are doing to Ravendog . . .
_________________
Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
|
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/23/22 12:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| MuneravenMN wrote: |
You know that feeling you get when someone obviously HATES you and you don't even actually know who they are or what their problem is? LOL!
Last time this happened to me the person thought I was spying on them via discarded Coke cans in the gutter. I'm not sure what the Coke cans are doing to Ravendog . . . |
LOL. Still honored to be with you, MuneravenMN, and to be with the others.
And thanks, Queenie, for your comment.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32341
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/23/22 3:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Giving Raven the benefit of the doubt. I think he was just saying he wants Brit back at any cost...without really thinking thru what that cost might be in real terms. IOW he meant it as a positive to BG, not a negative to the rest of us.
|
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/23/22 4:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
| Giving Raven the benefit of the doubt. I think he was just saying he wants Brit back at any cost...without really thinking thru what that cost might be in real terms. IOW he meant it as a positive to BG, not a negative to the rest of us. |
Sorry, myrtle, but there was a very specific "rest of us" here--four of us and you weren't one of them--that were the target of his words. Of course you have every right to give him or anyone the benefit of the doubt, but it's important to note that you weren't one of the targets.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1138
Location: New Jersey, USA
Back to top |
|
Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 4170
Back to top |
|
johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1901
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/23/22 5:50 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ABC News has an interview with Trevor Reed in which he mentions working to bring Whelan and BG home. Reed is the imprisoned American who was recently released in a prisoner swap.
|
|
MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3990
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/24/22 1:53 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| ABC News has an interview with Trevor Reed in which he mentions working to bring Whelan and BG home. Reed is the imprisoned American who was recently released in a prisoner swap. |
I don't know if we saw the same interview, but Reed got really emotional about coming home without the others. And his experience was BAD.
Damn I hope BG comes home soon.
_________________
Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8291
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/24/22 5:54 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I've been doing some research on the Russian criminal drug laws—specifically, drug transportation under Article 228 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
The penalties for personal use vary depending upon the amount transported. These amounts under the 2006 regulatory decree (see Table 1) and their respective criminal penalties are:
• "Large amount" = 6g of cannabis, 2g of hashish, or 0.4g of cannabis/hashish oil → fine of 40,000 rubles, or corrective labor for up to two years, or prison for up to three years.
• "Exceptionally large amount" = 100g of cannabis, 25g or hashish, or 5g of cannabis/hashish oil → prison from three to 10 years plus possible fine of 500,000 rubles.
Amounts less than "large" are considered subject only to an administrative punishment of a fine up to 1,000 rubles or 15 days detention.
I have no experience with any of these substances, so have no idea how to evaluate the personal usage amounts for vape pen hash oil cartridges, which I understand to be the drugs allegedly transported by Griner from New York into the Moscow airport in her hand luggage. Perhaps others here have reasonable speculations as to how many grams of vape cartridge hash oil a user would use for, say, a month.
Aside from the diplomatic/political speculations about Griner's arrest, the purely legal case should be simple, dyadic, binary, yes/no. She either possessed the drugs or she didn't. In some easily measurable amount.
If Griner is in fact guilty, I suppose I sort of part ways with some here, who seem to believe Griner should be released without punishment . . . just because. Because why? She's American? Texan? A basketball player? Tall? Some other personal characteristic? Those things would be completely irrelevant to guilt in an American criminal proceeding, and I assume the same would be true in Russia. If guilty, Griner in my opinion should be subject to the same penalties as anyone else for the specific legal violation of which she is ultimately convicted.
Moreover, if she's guilty, it's difficult to believe she didn't know the drug laws in a country she's probably lived in for more than a year of her life; and into, out of and around which she's probably flown via Russian airports dozens of times.
On the other hand, if she's innocent, she should be immediately released. If the prosecution does not have the physical drug evidence, they obviously have no case. However, I don't think I recall any assertions of innocence from Griner via her lawyers or anyone else. Indeed, it would be foolish, and perhaps harmful to Griner's legal case, if she publicly protested criminal innocence falsely, while knowing that she is factually guilty and the prosecutors have incontrovertible evidence.
I have also read reports that Russia has the highest number of people per capita imprisoned for drug crimes in Europe, that approximately 25% of the inmates of Russian prisons are there for drug offenses, and that the Russian police are known to plant drug evidence just to reach quotas for collecting fines. Whether this kind of corruption infects Griner's case, we may never know for sure. |
|
CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1474
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/25/22 11:39 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Well majority of Russians don’t believe authorities when it comes to drug charges so Why should we?
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/07/09/drug-charges-are-routinely-falsified-russia-most-russians-say-a66325
| Quote: |
A majority of Russians believe that police routinely fabricate drug charges, according to results published by the independent Levada Center polling agency Tuesday.
The survey was conducted in the wake of the high-profile drug trafficking arrest — and subsequent release over insufficient evidence — of investigative journalist Ivan Golunov last month. Critics said the charges against Golunov were fabricated, igniting a public debate about drug laws in Russia, which imprisons the highest number of people per capita in Europe for drug-related crimes. |
https://www.rferl.org/a/kaliningrad-case-revives-discussion-of-russia-s-fake-drug-prosecutions/30564040.html
| Quote: |
KALININGRAD, Russia – Prosecutors in this western Russian city have opened a criminal investigation into an unspecified number of police officers on suspicion of fabricating a drug-possession case in order to inflate their job performance.
The case has once again cast the spotlight on what rights activists say is a widespread practice among Russian law enforcement of planting drugs on people and compelling confessions from them for a variety of reasons, such as the desire to meet case quotas, to settle business disputes or personal scores, to quell political dissent, or to silence inconvenient journalists.
“Planting drugs is often used for political pressure or simply to improve one’s performance statistics,” said Kaliningrad defense lawyer Maria Bontsler. “‘If there aren’t enough cases, now let’s make one.’ But these cases are truly terrifying. It is very easy to ruin a person’s life. A few grams [of drugs] and a person can go to prison for many years.” |
|
|
ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 703
Location: Chicago
Back to top |
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/22 8:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
This is heartbreaking. Just makes this horrible situation even more vivid. But thanks for posting the video. Hoping somehow for good news as soon as possible.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
bballjunkie
Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 785
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/28/22 3:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Regarding anyone who questions whether BG is guilty or not I have a middle finger for you. This is Russia the most corrupt, bigoted country in the world that is run by an oligarch who cheats to win and kills those who oppose him. So shove the question of guilt where the sun don't shine. #BringBGHome
|
|
CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 1474
Back to top |
|
johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1901
Back to top |
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32341
Back to top |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8291
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/30/22 4:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I've been doing some research on the Russian criminal drug laws—specifically, drug transportation under Article 228 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
The penalties for personal use vary depending upon the amount transported. These amounts under the 2006 regulatory decree (see Table 1) and their respective criminal penalties are:
• "Large amount" = 6g of cannabis, 2g of hashish, or 0.4g of cannabis/hashish oil → fine of 40,000 rubles, or corrective labor for up to two years, or prison for up to three years.
• "Exceptionally large amount" = 100g of cannabis, 25g or hashish, or 5g of cannabis/hashish oil → prison from three to 10 years plus possible fine of 500,000 rubles.
Amounts less than "large" are considered subject only to an administrative punishment of a fine up to 1,000 rubles or 15 days detention.
I have no experience with any of these substances, so have no idea how to evaluate the personal usage amounts for vape pen hash oil cartridges, which I understand to be the drugs allegedly transported by Griner from New York into the Moscow airport in her hand luggage. Perhaps others here have reasonable speculations as to how many grams of vape cartridge hash oil a user would use for, say, a month.
|
Since virtually all the facts of this affair are unknown and speculation is all we have, I will assume for the sake of argument that Griner was carrying some amount of hash oil in vape cartridges, and speculate that there is a good chance, based on the legal penalties set forth above, that Griner may ultimately be convicted but set free with only a fine.
According to several online sources, vape cartridges commonly come in 0.5 and 1 gram sizes, though I also see 0.35, 0.8 and 0.9 gram sizes. A 0.5 gram cartridge will provide about 150 puffs; and a 1 gram cartridge, about 300 puffs.
How many puffs are needed to get high? That depends upon the THC concentration and the addictive experience of the user. THC concentrations can vary, but 75% THC seems to be common for vape cartridges. Sites say a high can be achieved by a newbie in one puff, while experienced users/addicts may need as many as six to get high.
If Griner was carrying only one .35g cartridge (which is less than the "large amount" of 0.4g), she would get off after trial with just a small fine or 15 days detention, which she has already served. Let's assume she was carrying more than 0.4g.
The real danger is if she exceeded the "exceptionally large amount" limit of 5g. In that case the 3 to 10 year prison sentence seems mandatory, with possible additional fines.
Her best hope is that she was carrying less than 5g, the "large amount" level, or that her case can be plea bargained down to that level. 4.99g of 75% THC would give her approximately 1,500 puffs. Who knows how hypothetically addicted to THC our hypothetically guilty Griner is, but 4.99g could last her 150 days at 10 puffs a day.
The benefit of being convicted at the "large amount" level—i.e., from 0.4g to 4.99g of vape oil—is that prison does not appear to be mandatory under Article 228. The penalties are phrased as disjoint alternatives: "40 thousand roubles, or in the amount of . . . income of the convicted person for a period of up to three months, or by corrective labour for a term of up to two years, or by deprivation of liberty for a term of up to three years."
Assuming guilt or plea bargain for the "large amount" offense, why would Russia prefer to incarcerate Griner for years, which would cost them a lot of money, rather than choosing the three months of income fine, which could make them a lot of money?
In short, focusing solely on the possible legal outcomes, there is a real possibility that Griner could be freed swiftly after a very short trial or plea bargain, if she is willing to pay a big fine for a "large amount" offense.
*****************
As to the efficacy of speaking up and other public demonstrations of support for Griner by the WNBA or by U.S. individuals, I don't think they will have any effect on a Russian prosecutor, judge or Ministry of Interior official who can influence courts. I know such things in a foreign country would have no effect on a U.S. federal prosecutor or judge.
However, I think such demonstrations of support are very important, because they can possibly influence U.S. politicians and State Department bureaucrats to keep giving Griner's case high priority and to keep applying whatever diplomatic influences and pressures as may be available. Therefore, I don't agree with the "keep silent about Griner" strategy. |
|
|
|
