| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Who will win this game? |
| Sun |
|
26% |
[ 4 ] |
| Aces |
|
73% |
[ 11 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 15 |
|
| Author |
Message |
PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1380
Back to top |
 Posted: 05/25/21 9:23 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
In the first place, I stand behind what I said: you can't discuss something happening to a woman, in a manner that dilutes or otherwise removes the context of centuries of sexism and misogyny, and then compare it to something happening in the men's game, like it's the same thing. It's not, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
And, in the second place, calling Curt Miller the equivalent of "white boy" is not racism. That's reductive fucking nonsense. |
Also, anyone reasoning that Miller's comments were basically a harmless slip-up should maybe apply that same logic to Cambage's comment. Although I agree with Conway that it wasn't a necessary, I don't agree that it was more egregious.
Also - saying this as a white guy - even to claim that all racism is equally unforgivable is also a bit reductive. Specifically, while white racism toward blacks is rooted in hundreds of years of greed, victimization and a deeply held Southern cultural resentment for the result of the civil war - black racism towards whites is rooted in hundreds of years of victimhood and systemic oppression and persection. If prejuduce is based on fear, black people have a much more legitimate reason to be prejudiced towards whites than vice versa. Yeah that may be off topic but this whole tangent about race is off topic, so...
_________________
Unspoken expectations are just premeditated resentments.
Last edited by PickledGinger on 05/25/21 9:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 67134
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/25/21 9:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Also, anyone reasoning that Miller's comments were basically a harmless slip-up should maybe apply that same logic to Gambage's comment. |
I don't think either of them should face fine or suspension for this little verbal drama. It's a tempest in a teapot.
_________________
I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
|
PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
Posts: 1380
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/25/21 9:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Also, anyone reasoning that Miller's comments were basically a harmless slip-up should maybe apply that same logic to Gambage's comment. |
I don't think either of them should face fine or suspension for this little verbal drama. It's a tempest in a teapot. |
I agree. But some people seem to think that Cambage's "little white man" was racist to the severity that she also required punishment, which would have ALSO been a bad move for the league.
_________________
Unspoken expectations are just premeditated resentments.
|
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3380
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/25/21 10:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| I don't think either of them should face fine or suspension for this little verbal drama. It's a tempest in a teapot. |
Not that I've bothered to actually give my opinion on the subject, but I don't think that Miller should have been suspended, either. I just don't feel bad that he was. And I'm not worried about the threat of a "slippery slope," or whatever other bullshit fearmongering people might want to engage in.
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
|
|
Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/25/21 10:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| BamaEd wrote: |
| I don't know if I should be as surprised by the responses on here as I am. Some of the responses to me reek of sexism and racism, which surprised me on a WNBA board. But I digress. I am sure Miller knows what he said was wrong and why it was wrong. It is very different for a coach to disparage or trash talk a player than it is for 2 players to jaw. There were ways for Curt to get his point across without saying what he said. Also, as some have said, you can't look at this in strictly a basketball context. It is different in the NBA because there isn't the societal pressure of being objectified and scrutinized over their bodies like there is with women, especially black women. Some of this seems to be directed at Liz personally on here. I wonder if it were a different player if the reactions would be the same. Wow, apparently I'm salty this morning. |
Excellent comment. But I'm surprised that you are surprised to find responses on this board that "reek of sexism and racism." It's terrible... but nothing new.
_________________
Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
|
|
undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 1:03 am ::: |
Reply |
|
As a general point, just because something has always been a certain way in the NBA doesn't mean it's inherently a Good Thing. The men's game is not automatically the norm that the women's game should strive toward.
Bringing that up here because it seems to be an underlying & unquestioned assumption some people hold that gets exposed in discussions like these.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9783
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 1:36 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
And sure enough, Cambage only played 21:31, finishing with 10 pts on a perfect 3-3 FG, 7 reb, and 4 blk. More notably, she led the team in +/- with a +13. (Meanwhile, A’ja Wilson was a -19; Chelsea Gray was -20.) Granted, she was in foul trouble in the first half – but then again, if she were in better shape, would she have picked up those fouls? 🤔 They probably could’ve used her an extra few minutes in this 7-point loss. And now they’re 2-2 rather than 3-1 or even 4-0.
And in terms of those believing she’s in “the best shape” she’s ever looked, she averaged 25 MPG for Vegas in 2019, and 29 MPG for Dallas in 2018. After this game, she’s at about 21 MPG thus far in this early season. We’ll see how (or if) that progresses. |
Body wise she looks to be in the best shape that she has ever been. But dont come at her over her weight. Curt Miller called her 300 pounds against a ref in this game and Cambage is one pissed of woman on instagram about it. Get your facts straight Miller its 235 and dont be disrespectful   |
Cambage has no foundation to complain about someone calling her overweight. She got into a verbal altercation with several Sky players a few years ago when she said something negative about Dolson's weight. |
I don't know the exact quote as I don't see it given, but I would guess that the "300 pounds" was referring to Cambage being so much heavier than a Sun player and that was effecting whatever pushing and shoving and blasting into each other that the ref was scrutinizing. And heavier as in "bigger", not "fatter" or "overweight". Cambage isn't overweight, but she is very tall and not "tall and skinny" like most very tall players. But she (and other WNBA players) are not likely to be happy about comments that are with regard to them being exceptionally tall. "Big" in another way.
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9783
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 2:50 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Richyyy wrote: |
Over here, I guarantee you the Connecticut fans would have a song about her being 300 pounds. Or something less polite. |
Is that for sports other than soccer? I don't think the WNBA or the teams would allow fans singing a song that had "pounds" in it to remain in the arena. I have strong doubts WNBA fans would be allowed to do any repeated and unison taunts or heckling of opposing players. Even the NBA would likely move to stop that, particularly if key players complained about it or went into the stands in anger.
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11224
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 9:31 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Tempest in a teapot, absolutely ...
And if, as I suspect, Miller's hyperbolic comment was directed to the ref to point out Cambage's inherent advantage in some situations, it was not "personal" in any sense. He would have said the same about any tall and strong post player in order to help his team.
That said, given the historical objectivization of women, the focus on weight, etc., it is not OK in a societal sense even if it's perfectly OK from a basketball perspective.
Which means there is a fine line in the women's game that doesn't exist for men about weight, just as there's a fine line in the men's game about using homophobic slurs to mean "weak" that doesn't apply as much to women.
I know as a coach of girls I never, ever, ever mention weight. If I were coaching boys, I would have a much different perspective on telling a boy he would be a better player if he were 10 pounds lighter.
_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
Carol Anne
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1739
Location: Seattle
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 9:37 am ::: |
Reply |
|
The WNBA All-Star, who plays for the Las Vegas Aces, hit back at Connecticut Sun head coach Curt Miller after he encouraged an official to call a foul against her while saying, 'C'mon, she's 300 pounds.' 'I will never let a man disrespect me, ever, ever, ever, especially a little white one,' Cambage told her 580,000 Instagram followers in an explosive rant after the game.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9614645/Liz-Cambage-doubles-criticism-coach-said-weighed-300-pounds.html
Curt Miller spoke in the heat of a game and apologized for an insult. Liz mouths off after the game to her IG followers. She's using this for attention, as if she needs anymore of that. 
|
|
Davis4632
Joined: 14 Jul 2014
Posts: 867
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 12:24 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| tfan wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
Over here, I guarantee you the Connecticut fans would have a song about her being 300 pounds. Or something less polite. |
Is that for sports other than soccer? I don't think the WNBA or the teams would allow fans singing a song that had "pounds" in it to remain in the arena. I have strong doubts WNBA fans would be allowed to do any repeated and unison taunts or heckling of opposing players. Even the NBA would likely move to stop that, particularly if key players complained about it or went into the stands in anger. |
Do you think fans should be thrown out of a game if they said in unison Cambage sucks or f@%k Liz Cambage?
|
|
Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24409
Location: London
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 12:58 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Yeah, I don't think anyone got thrown out of Madison Square Garden the other night when the entire place was chanting "Fuck Trae Young". And yes, songs/chants with a bit of invention happen in sports over here other than just soccer.
I am going to burst something laughing if, the next time Cambage bowls someone over and gets bailed out, the opposing coach goes over to the ref and yells "Come on ref! She's precisely 235 pounds!" |
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3380
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 1:18 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| undersized_post wrote: |
As a general point, just because something has always been a certain way in the NBA doesn't mean it's inherently a Good Thing. The men's game is not automatically the norm that the women's game should strive toward.
Bringing that up here because it seems to be an underlying & unquestioned assumption some people hold that gets exposed in discussions like these. |
Where's the "Like" button, when you need one?
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
|
|
WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12622
Location: Dallas , Texas
Back to top |
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3380
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 1:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Richyyy wrote: |
| I am going to burst something laughing if, the next time Cambage bowls someone over and gets bailed out, the opposing coach goes over to the ref and yells "Come on ref! She's precisely 235 pounds!" |
Now that would be funny! And I say that as, apparently, the only Cambage fan on this message board (Or, at least, the only one who doesn't root for Cambage, just because she plays for their team/home country).
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
|
|
undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
Back to top |
|
Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 1901
Location: Here
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 2:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
In the first place, I stand behind what I said: you can't discuss something happening to a woman, in a manner that dilutes or otherwise removes the context of centuries of sexism and misogyny, and then compare it to something happening in the men's game, like it's the same thing. It's not, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
And, in the second place, calling Curt Miller the equivalent of "white boy" is not racism. That's reductive fucking nonsense. |
First off, you very WELL can discuss something happening to a woman in the context of women engaging in physical athletic sport that requires physicality that is totally (proportionately speaking of course) equal to men engaging in the same sport. Women sweat, grunt, scream, fight, bleed, run and fall in their athletic endeavors just as men do.
That's like someone who normally performs in Formula One racing choosing to engage in NASCAR races consistently - BUT DON'T YOU DARE CALL THEM A NASCAR RACE CAR DRIVER!!! That's stupid.
And the very FACT that women engage in these physical athletic sports as a steady departure if not rebellion away from those centuries-old sexist and misogynistic constraints, make it hypocritical to denounce others embracing their participation in ways that used to be only associated with male athletes.
A 5-8 female that adheres to those older "standards" the male population placed on females: probably what, a wispy 120-lb lovely lady?? So we need to call 6-8 women 120 lbs??? They'd be skin and bones. We cannot refer to them as being muscular, because that's not a very lady-like reference??? Someone here is creating the narrative to suit their agenda, after the fact. Typical......
The problem is taking a stand - putting out advertisements and marketing saying, "hey look! We're JUST LIKE YOU - ACCEPT US AND EMBRACE US AS BEING JUST LIKE YOU!!!"
BUT DON'T YOU DARE EVER CALL US NASCAR RACE CAR DRIVERS!! It's equally stupid.
As for your 2nd point. Cambage did NOT call Curt Miller a "white boy" because his first name is White. Or his last name is "White". It's Curt Miller. He DOES NOT go by the nickname "White". He was NOT wearing white clothes during the game at issue here.
Please tell me WHY Cambage called Miller a "white boy" had nothing to do with the color of his skin? And if it DOES has to do with the color of his skin, then it has to do with his race, and therefore - it WAS racist. The fact that she called Miller a "boy" when he is clearly a man older than she herself is, was blatantly a disparaging act. To insult him and disrespect him.
It's not reductive reasoning, the definition of which I suspect you struggle with.
I live in South Carolina: here, a white man calls a black man "black boy", or even "boy", that white man is called a racist. Hell, if he even calls a black BOY (a child or minor below the legal age of adulthood) "boy", it's often labeled as racist.
And I stand by what I stand. To say person A cannot call Person B label X, but that Person B can call Person A label X, is total hypocrisy. Because the label can NOT be interpreted by ANYONE - not Person A nor Person B - as being anything OTHER than racist.
The position has always been equality for all races. To in effect, wipe out the color of skin as a relevant identifier of one people for another. Perhaps you need to educate yourself better on racism. TO EVEN SUGGEST that calling a black man a "black boy" is MORE racist than calling a white man a "white boy" - even due to historical record in the United States between the two races - is in itself RACIST. Because you regard the treatment of one race differently than you do the equal treatment of another race, specifically BECAUSE of their race. That is the pure definition of RACISM.
And it is a DIRECT assault at the notion of racial equality, when you defend one race doing to another what you also condemn the latter race doing to the former. That's not equality AT ALL. It is the exact opposite. And USING as your justification that "they did it to us, so....." is a dead-born fail.
A demographic that represents 13% of the total in 1860, and represents 13% of the total in 2010, won't get very far by telling the balance of the total, "now let US do it to you for 400 years". Not after telling that balance that they had a dream of all races sitting down at the same table. NOW you say, you want to do to the balance what they did to you???? And you try to call THAT "equality"?????
The idea was, was EQUALITY. To regard ALL human races by something OTHER than the color of their skin. By something OTHER than their race. You've built your ENTIRE FUCKING DEFENSE of Cambage's statement on race. You need to educate yourself better than this.
RACISM. Either you want to get rid of it. Or you want to be part of it. There's no fucking middle ground. Someone best start making up minds around here of what they want to do about it - others out there are already trying to make it up for you. Best turn on the fucking news.......
|
|
Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 1901
Location: Here
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 2:44 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
In the first place, I stand behind what I said: you can't discuss something happening to a woman, in a manner that dilutes or otherwise removes the context of centuries of sexism and misogyny, and then compare it to something happening in the men's game, like it's the same thing. It's not, and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
And, in the second place, calling Curt Miller the equivalent of "white boy" is not racism. That's reductive fucking nonsense. |
Also, anyone reasoning that Miller's comments were basically a harmless slip-up should maybe apply that same logic to Cambage's comment. Although I agree with Conway that it wasn't a necessary, I don't agree that it was more egregious.
Also - saying this as a white guy - even to claim that all racism is equally unforgivable is also a bit reductive. Specifically, while white racism toward blacks is rooted in hundreds of years of greed, victimization and a deeply held Southern cultural resentment for the result of the civil war - black racism towards whites is rooted in hundreds of years of victimhood and systemic oppression and persection. If prejuduce is based on fear, black people have a much more legitimate reason to be prejudiced towards whites than vice versa. Yeah that may be off topic but this whole tangent about race is off topic, so... |
You state the answers, but don't even realize it. Prejudice IS based on fear: you therefore deduce that due to the Black community living in fear for centuries, that they somehow own the bank on prejudice, as a way of defending or justifying whatever prejudice that they may hold.
But you THEN have to totally ignore the very point of your statement. Prejudice is based on fear. Who has owned the bank on prejudice in this country??? That's right - the White Man. You think the White Man doesn't have some reason - however misplaced or ignorant - to have fear??? Wasn't it THEY who wrote the book on prejudice-based discrimination in this country???
So what then are YOU trying to say? I am saying that in this country, no 13% of the population is going to dictate to the balance the terms. It just WON'T happen. They won't get the balance to agree with, "once it was your time to discriminate against us, now let it be OUR time to do it to YOU".
It just won't happen. The fear is still there. People asking if the police force is systemically racist, or the judicial system, etc. The truth is, the United States as a social system, is systemically racist. That includes EVERY other sub-social system within it, plus all the ones no one ever asked about. It's unfortunately a part of our DNA.
So I say again, the best we will EVER do is work towards equality. Treat each other the same. Either rid ourselves of racism, or dive head-first into it. But there's no middle ground, no third option. And DEFINITELY no, "let us do to you what you did to us for a while", when it's the 13% that's doing the asking of the rest. That just will only make things worse than they already are.....
|
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3380
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 3:17 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
First off, you very WELL can discuss something happening to a woman in the context of women engaging in physical athletic sport that requires physicality that is totally (proportionately speaking of course) equal to men engaging in the same sport. Women sweat, grunt, scream, fight, bleed, run and fall in their athletic endeavors just as men do.
That's like someone who normally performs in Formula One racing choosing to engage in NASCAR races consistently - BUT DON'T YOU DARE CALL THEM A NASCAR RACE CAR DRIVER!!! That's stupid. |
Someone who says that these two things are analogous is either dumb, or lying. I don't know which one applies to you, but the rest of your post leaves me disinclined to extend benefit of the doubt.
| Quote: |
And the very FACT that women engage in these physical athletic sports as a steady departure if not rebellion away from those centuries-old sexist and misogynistic constraints, make it hypocritical to denounce others embracing their participation in ways that used to be only associated with male athletes.
|
That's... not how sexism works. You don't get to be like, "Well, women play sports now: reset the board to zero. Nothing that happened with respect to how women are treated, before today, should be taken into consideration, at all. Clean slates, for everybody!" That's like the ignoramuses who say ridiculous things like Obama being elected POTUS means that we're living in a "post-racial" society.
| Quote: |
I live in South Carolina: here, a white man calls a black man "black boy", or even "boy", that white man is called a racist. Hell, if he even calls a black BOY (a child or minor below the legal age of adulthood) "boy", it's often labeled as racist.
And I stand by what I stand. To say person A cannot call Person B label X, but that Person B can call Person A label X, is total hypocrisy. Because the label can NOT be interpreted by ANYONE - not Person A nor Person B - as being anything OTHER than racist. |
You can't be this stupid. Labels have no meaning, in the absence of context. One of those examples is racist, because of centuries of oppression that empower it to be so. The other example has none of that. You are using specious logic, on the same level of "A table has legs, @Conway Gamecock has legs, therefore @Conway Gamecock is a table." Actually, your argument isn't even specious: a specious argument would at least sound superficially reasonable.
| Quote: |
| The position has always been equality for all races. To in effect, wipe out the color of skin as a relevant identifier of one people for another. Perhaps you need to educate yourself better on racism. TO EVEN SUGGEST that calling a black man a "black boy" is MORE racist than calling a white man a "white boy" - even due to historical record in the United States between the two races - is in itself RACIST. Because you regard the treatment of one race differently than you do the equal treatment of another race, specifically BECAUSE of their race. That is the pure definition of RACISM. |
....
I guess I don't have to ask whether you think CRT should be taught in schools. This, and the rest of your post, is about the most ignorant, surface-level understanding of racism a person can have. And it's wrong, by the way: anybody who thinks that a conversation about racism can be had, absent the context of literal centuies of systemic, cultural, generational oppression, is talking out of their ass.
_________________
Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
|
|
Mixolydian
Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 154
Location: Alaska
Back to top |
|
Mixolydian
Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 154
Location: Alaska
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 3:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| undersized_post wrote: |
| As a general point, just because something has always been a certain way in the NBA doesn't mean it's inherently a Good Thing. The men's game is not automatically the norm that the women's game should strive toward. |
100%. I've been watching and following a little of the NBA since it's the playoffs, and I hope the W doesn't become anything like that mess.
|
|
SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 1183
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 5:44 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Liz acts like a big brute and is self absorbed, she made comments about Indigenous Australians. She can kiss a hairy soiled arse
|
|
WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 1427
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 7:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
First off, you very WELL can discuss something happening to a woman in the context of women engaging in physical athletic sport that requires physicality that is totally (proportionately speaking of course) equal to men engaging in the same sport. Women sweat, grunt, scream, fight, bleed, run and fall in their athletic endeavors just as men do.
That's like someone who normally performs in Formula One racing choosing to engage in NASCAR races consistently - BUT DON'T YOU DARE CALL THEM A NASCAR RACE CAR DRIVER!!! That's stupid. |
Someone who says that these two things are analogous is either dumb, or lying. I don't know which one applies to you, but the rest of your post leaves me disinclined to extend benefit of the doubt.
| Quote: |
And the very FACT that women engage in these physical athletic sports as a steady departure if not rebellion away from those centuries-old sexist and misogynistic constraints, make it hypocritical to denounce others embracing their participation in ways that used to be only associated with male athletes.
|
That's... not how sexism works. You don't get to be like, "Well, women play sports now: reset the board to zero. Nothing that happened with respect to how women are treated, before today, should be taken into consideration, at all. Clean slates, for everybody!" That's like the ignoramuses who say ridiculous things like Obama being elected POTUS means that we're living in a "post-racial" society.
| Quote: |
I live in South Carolina: here, a white man calls a black man "black boy", or even "boy", that white man is called a racist. Hell, if he even calls a black BOY (a child or minor below the legal age of adulthood) "boy", it's often labeled as racist.
And I stand by what I stand. To say person A cannot call Person B label X, but that Person B can call Person A label X, is total hypocrisy. Because the label can NOT be interpreted by ANYONE - not Person A nor Person B - as being anything OTHER than racist. |
You can't be this stupid. Labels have no meaning, in the absence of context. One of those examples is racist, because of centuries of oppression that empower it to be so. The other example has none of that. You are using specious logic, on the same level of "A table has legs, @Conway Gamecock has legs, therefore @Conway Gamecock is a table." Actually, your argument isn't even specious: a specious argument would at least sound superficially reasonable.
| Quote: |
| The position has always been equality for all races. To in effect, wipe out the color of skin as a relevant identifier of one people for another. Perhaps you need to educate yourself better on racism. TO EVEN SUGGEST that calling a black man a "black boy" is MORE racist than calling a white man a "white boy" - even due to historical record in the United States between the two races - is in itself RACIST. Because you regard the treatment of one race differently than you do the equal treatment of another race, specifically BECAUSE of their race. That is the pure definition of RACISM. |
....
I guess I don't have to ask whether you think CRT should be taught in schools. This, and the rest of your post, is about the most ignorant, surface-level understanding of racism a person can have. And it's wrong, by the way: anybody who thinks that a conversation about racism can be had, absent the context of literal centuies of systemic, cultural, generational oppression, is talking out of their ass. |
All I can do is clap to this whole thing. Having these kinds of discussions is exhausting but I appreciate the fact that you took the time and energy to do it! Salute Silky!
|
|
WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 1427
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 7:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
First off, you very WELL can discuss something happening to a woman in the context of women engaging in physical athletic sport that requires physicality that is totally (proportionately speaking of course) equal to men engaging in the same sport. Women sweat, grunt, scream, fight, bleed, run and fall in their athletic endeavors just as men do.
That's like someone who normally performs in Formula One racing choosing to engage in NASCAR races consistently - BUT DON'T YOU DARE CALL THEM A NASCAR RACE CAR DRIVER!!! That's stupid. |
Someone who says that these two things are analogous is either dumb, or lying. I don't know which one applies to you, but the rest of your post leaves me disinclined to extend benefit of the doubt.
| Quote: |
And the very FACT that women engage in these physical athletic sports as a steady departure if not rebellion away from those centuries-old sexist and misogynistic constraints, make it hypocritical to denounce others embracing their participation in ways that used to be only associated with male athletes.
|
That's... not how sexism works. You don't get to be like, "Well, women play sports now: reset the board to zero. Nothing that happened with respect to how women are treated, before today, should be taken into consideration, at all. Clean slates, for everybody!" That's like the ignoramuses who say ridiculous things like Obama being elected POTUS means that we're living in a "post-racial" society.
| Quote: |
I live in South Carolina: here, a white man calls a black man "black boy", or even "boy", that white man is called a racist. Hell, if he even calls a black BOY (a child or minor below the legal age of adulthood) "boy", it's often labeled as racist.
And I stand by what I stand. To say person A cannot call Person B label X, but that Person B can call Person A label X, is total hypocrisy. Because the label can NOT be interpreted by ANYONE - not Person A nor Person B - as being anything OTHER than racist. |
You can't be this stupid. Labels have no meaning, in the absence of context. One of those examples is racist, because of centuries of oppression that empower it to be so. The other example has none of that. You are using specious logic, on the same level of "A table has legs, @Conway Gamecock has legs, therefore @Conway Gamecock is a table." Actually, your argument isn't even specious: a specious argument would at least sound superficially reasonable.
| Quote: |
| The position has always been equality for all races. To in effect, wipe out the color of skin as a relevant identifier of one people for another. Perhaps you need to educate yourself better on racism. TO EVEN SUGGEST that calling a black man a "black boy" is MORE racist than calling a white man a "white boy" - even due to historical record in the United States between the two races - is in itself RACIST. Because you regard the treatment of one race differently than you do the equal treatment of another race, specifically BECAUSE of their race. That is the pure definition of RACISM. |
....
I guess I don't have to ask whether you think CRT should be taught in schools. This, and the rest of your post, is about the most ignorant, surface-level understanding of racism a person can have. And it's wrong, by the way: anybody who thinks that a conversation about racism can be had, absent the context of literal centuies of systemic, cultural, generational oppression, is talking out of their ass. |
All I can do is clap to this whole thing. Having these kinds of discussions is exhausting but I appreciate the fact that you took the time and energy to do it! Salute Silky!
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9783
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/26/21 8:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Davis4632 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
Over here, I guarantee you the Connecticut fans would have a song about her being 300 pounds. Or something less polite. |
Is that for sports other than soccer? I don't think the WNBA or the teams would allow fans singing a song that had "pounds" in it to remain in the arena. I have strong doubts WNBA fans would be allowed to do any repeated and unison taunts or heckling of opposing players. Even the NBA would likely move to stop that, particularly if key players complained about it or went into the stands in anger. |
Do you think fans should be thrown out of a game if they said in unison Cambage sucks or f@%k Liz Cambage? |
I personally don't want to hear profanity group shouted at an arena I am in (the F word is so common these days it's hard or impossible to avoid it being shouted randomly at refs), so yes, I would want them thrown out if I was there. But otherwise, if fans in an arena I am not in are cool with it, I wouldn't take a position they need to stop it. But as I said, I think the WNBA and teams would probably throw the fans out (after a warning) if they said in unison - repeatedly - something negative about Cambage. They might tolerate "baby" or "crybaby", but not "goon" or "clown" or "lazy" or other worse pejoratives. And that isn't necessarily because the people in charge are personally sensitive to it. They are also concerned with the feelings of the fans and players and yelling pejoratives at players, including opposing players, doesn't fit with the WNBA vibe or rhetoric.
|
|
|
|
p.s. I'm a budding Cambage fan as well. But I don't usually harbor active dislike towards that many players anyway. I just like good bball. (And my local NCAA teams 
)