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Ex-Ref
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FrozenLVFan
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 Posted: 09/01/21 8:53 am ::: |
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Interesting. I know there have been cases of COVID in tigers, lions, snow leopards, cougars, gorillas, and otters. There are a lot of zoos around the country that are vaccinating their animals now, particularly felines and primates.
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 09/02/21 5:45 pm ::: |
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The repetitions in left-wing social and mainstream media implying that Ivermectin is only a "horse or cow pill" are either woefully ignorant or deliberately misleading descriptions of the medication.
Discovered in the 1970's, the medication won its discoverers the 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine, and it has been prescribed for various human parasitic diseases for 40 years. A 2011 medical journal called Ivermectin a "wonder drug" for humans, which "has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world."
It is true that Ivermectin has not been approved by the U.S. FDA for use as a Covid treatment, but many doctors around the world believe it has efficacious effects on Covid recovery, and no study has proved the contrary.
Taken in normally prescribed human dosages, Ivermectin is not likely to be harmful even if it is ultimately not effective. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/02/21 6:00 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
The repetitions in left-wing social and mainstream media implying that Ivermectin is only a "horse or cow pill" are either woefully ignorant or deliberately misleading descriptions of the medication.
Discovered in the 1970's, the medication won its discoverers the 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine, and it has been prescribed for various human parasitic diseases for 40 years. A 2011 medical journal called Ivermectin a "wonder drug" for humans, which "has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world."
It is true that Ivermectin has not been approved by the U.S. FDA for use as a Covid treatment, but many doctors around the world believe it has efficacious effects on Covid recovery, and no study has proved the contrary.
Taken in normally prescribed human dosages, Ivermectin is not likely to be harmful even if it is ultimately not effective. |
There's a vaccine that has been approved by the FDA and has proven effective. There's no need to try unproven remedies.
_________________
I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 09/02/21 6:09 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| many doctors around the world believe it has efficacious effects on Covid recovery, and no study has proved the contrary. |
No study has proved it is effective either.
Many doctors believe all types of things. They're human too and just as affected by misinformation, biases, and just making shit up, as anyone else.
Which is kinda the whole point of properly controlled studies. And is kinda why the vast majority of them are reluctant to prescribe something that hasn't been proven to work. That makes "normally prescribed human dosages" kind of problematic doesn't it.
I'm guessing that no study has proven that bungee jumping is detrimental to Covid recovery either, so it's probably only a matter of time before that gets promoted as a cure around all the reputable social media networks.
Ivermectin is in the news down here after someone OD'd on it yesterday and died, so this is a timely thread. I wonder who gave that person the idea to try it, and what their qualifications and knowledge were. Whoever they are I bet they're feeling proud to have helped today.
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FrozenLVFan
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 09/02/21 7:42 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| many doctors around the world believe it has efficacious effects on Covid recovery, and no study has proved the contrary. |
No study has proved it is effective either.
|
It's true that no peer reviewed, random controlled trial has concluded that Ivermectin is or is not effective as a Covid therapeutic. But virtually nothing has been subject to that level of formal scrutiny -- not hydroxychloroquine, Z-packs, zinc, or vitamin D. There are informal studies on many of these, which are not necessarily consistent.
But the absence of such long-term formal trials is not a reason for doctors to abstain from trying relatively harmless "off label" medications for a disease that has killed 4.5 million people over the world. They are ethically obligated to try to save lives, which includes off-label prescriptions.
Besides, my main point was the misleading characterization of Ivermectin in left-wing media -- and right-wing media, for that matter -- not whether it is actually effective. |
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 09/02/21 7:51 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
The repetitions in left-wing social and mainstream media implying that Ivermectin is only a "horse or cow pill" are either woefully ignorant or deliberately misleading descriptions of the medication.
Discovered in the 1970's, the medication won its discoverers the 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine, and it has been prescribed for various human parasitic diseases for 40 years. A 2011 medical journal called Ivermectin a "wonder drug" for humans, which "has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world."
It is true that Ivermectin has not been approved by the U.S. FDA for use as a Covid treatment, but many doctors around the world believe it has efficacious effects on Covid recovery, and no study has proved the contrary.
Taken in normally prescribed human dosages, Ivermectin is not likely to be harmful even if it is ultimately not effective. |
There's a vaccine that has been approved by the FDA and has proven effective. There's no need to try unproven remedies. |
Pilight, you're really mixing apples and oranges. Vaccines are preventatives, which in the case of Covid haven't been as preventive as originally hoped. Ivermectin is hoped to be a therapeutic, which is a medication that can help recovery after one has contracted Covid, along with medications such as Remdesivir and monoclonal antibodies. |
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 09/02/21 9:41 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Luuuc wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| many doctors around the world believe it has efficacious effects on Covid recovery, and no study has proved the contrary. |
No study has proved it is effective either.
|
It's true that no peer reviewed, random controlled trial has concluded that Ivermectin is or is not effective as a Covid therapeutic. But virtually nothing has been subject to that level of formal scrutiny -- not hydroxychloroquine, Z-packs, zinc, or vitamin D. There are informal studies on many of these, which are not necessarily consistent.
But the absence of such long-term formal trials is not a reason for doctors to abstain from trying relatively harmless "off label" medications for a disease that has killed 4.5 million people over the world. They are ethically obligated to try to save lives, which includes off-label prescriptions.
Besides, my main point was the misleading characterization of Ivermectin in left-wing media -- and right-wing media, for that matter -- not whether it is actually effective. |
There's clearly a lot of variance in what people choose to listen to and how they choose to interpret it. I have no idea how something like this ends up as a left/right issue, but it sure does seem like there is a correlation in the US in particular.
I agree with you that if something is definitely harmless (when taken correctly) and a person wants to try it for reasons of "well, why not? It doesn't hurt and it just might help", then they should be able to.
But just as you claim there is scaremongering about it in some places, there is also unsubstantiated false hope being published and unfortunately it is killing people.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/02/21 9:48 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
The repetitions in left-wing social and mainstream media implying that Ivermectin is only a "horse or cow pill" are either woefully ignorant or deliberately misleading descriptions of the medication.
Discovered in the 1970's, the medication won its discoverers the 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine, and it has been prescribed for various human parasitic diseases for 40 years. A 2011 medical journal called Ivermectin a "wonder drug" for humans, which "has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world."
It is true that Ivermectin has not been approved by the U.S. FDA for use as a Covid treatment, but many doctors around the world believe it has efficacious effects on Covid recovery, and no study has proved the contrary.
Taken in normally prescribed human dosages, Ivermectin is not likely to be harmful even if it is ultimately not effective. |
There's a vaccine that has been approved by the FDA and has proven effective. There's no need to try unproven remedies. |
Pilight, you're really mixing apples and oranges. Vaccines are preventatives, which in the case of Covid haven't been as preventive as originally hoped. Ivermectin is hoped to be a therapeutic, which is a medication that can help recovery after one has contracted Covid, along with medications such as Remdesivir and monoclonal antibodies. |
People buying Ivermectin OTC are primarily using it as a preventative. That's what the media reports have been about.
_________________
I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 09/02/21 10:11 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
The repetitions in left-wing social and mainstream media implying that Ivermectin is only a "horse or cow pill" are either woefully ignorant or deliberately misleading descriptions of the medication.
Discovered in the 1970's, the medication won its discoverers the 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine, and it has been prescribed for various human parasitic diseases for 40 years. A 2011 medical journal called Ivermectin a "wonder drug" for humans, which "has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world."
It is true that Ivermectin has not been approved by the U.S. FDA for use as a Covid treatment, but many doctors around the world believe it has efficacious effects on Covid recovery, and no study has proved the contrary.
Taken in normally prescribed human dosages, Ivermectin is not likely to be harmful even if it is ultimately not effective. |
There's a vaccine that has been approved by the FDA and has proven effective. There's no need to try unproven remedies. |
Pilight, you're really mixing apples and oranges. Vaccines are preventatives, which in the case of Covid haven't been as preventive as originally hoped. Ivermectin is hoped to be a therapeutic, which is a medication that can help recovery after one has contracted Covid, along with medications such as Remdesivir and monoclonal antibodies. |
The problem is that people have been using Ivermectin instead of vaccines, therefore comparing the two in terms of outcome is appropriate. And we know that while perhaps suboptimal, the vaccines here in the US have reduced the incidence of severe disease and death from COVID, which has not been proven for Ivermectin.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 09/02/21 11:23 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| I'm guessing that no study has proven that bungee jumping is detrimental to Covid recovery either, so it's probably only a matter of time before that gets promoted as a cure around all the reputable social media networks. |
 By golly, yer RIGHT!!
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| A 2011 medical journal called Ivermectin a "wonder drug" for humans, which "has had an immeasurably beneficial impact in improving the lives and welfare of billions of people throughout the world." |
Well, that sounds marvelous, no? Except....the "beneficial impact" alluded to doesn't remotely address anything like eradicating or even mitigating a virus. Not even close.
This source and this glowing review does NOT address the drug's use in humans for novel coronavirus infections. One of the 2 main diseases it helps humans is the tropical disorder Onchocerciasis; this is a complex set of clinical problems stemming from parasitic infestations that operate far differently than a virus. In other words, Ivermectin is efficient at eliminating parasites that cause damage (for example, by damaging neurons in said parasites), in ways that are not remotely akin to a virus' M.O. -- viruses could never have neurons.
I've used Ivermectin for years.  It IS remarkably effective....at eliminating intestinal parasites in my goats and poultry. And it's relatively inexpensive, and plentiful as an OTC remedy.
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Luuuc
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/03/21 12:57 am ::: |
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I've been watching all this stuff about ivermectin shaking my head. I'm waiting for the media to recall, stumble onto, IDK, a very important piece of information about this DRUG FOR HUMANS that I honestly think they know in their editors rooms but, because of political reasons which are also couched in public health concerns, they just aren't pointing out.
Do you guys remember me for decades going on about my Chinese herb, Artemesia? Old timers should because I've talked about it here forever. People used to get in my shit over it. And then, in 2015, I woke up to the news that artemesia was one of two drugs for which the researchers that year won the Nobel Prize for Medicine.
The other DRUG (FOR HUMANS) was Avermectin which the NYTimes calls the parent drug for ivermectin. Below is a link to the announcement of the Nobel that year.
Nobel Prize in Medicine Awarded to 3 Scientists for Parasite-Fighting Therapies
By Lawrence K. Altman
Oct. 5, 2015
Three scientists who used modern laboratory techniques to discover anti-parasitic drugs long hidden in herbs and soil won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine on Monday.
Their drug therapies “have revolutionized the treatment of some of the most devastating parasitic diseases,” the Nobel Committee of the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm said in announcing the winners. They are William C. Campbell, formerly of New Jersey, and Satoshi Omura of Japan, who share one-half of the $960,000 award; and Tu Youyou of China, who won the other half.
Dr. Campbell and Dr. Omura developed Avermectin, the parent of Ivermectin, a medicine that has nearly eradicated river blindness and radically reduced the incidence of filariasis, which can cause the disfiguring swelling of the lymph system in the legs and lower body known as elephantiasis.
Dr. Tu was inspired by Chinese traditional medicine in discovering Artemisinin, a drug that is now part of standard anti-malarial regimens and that has reduced death rates from the disease.
“These two discoveries have provided humankind with powerful new means to combat these debilitating diseases that affect hundreds of millions of people annually,” the Nobel Committee said in a statement. “The consequences in terms of improved human health and reduced suffering are immeasurable” because parasitic diseases “represent a huge barrier to improving human health and well-being.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/science/william-c-campbell-satoshi-omura-youyou-tu-nobel-prize-physiology-medicine.html?hpw&rref=science&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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FrozenLVFan
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| Posted: 09/03/21 7:41 am ::: |
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| No one is saying that ivermectin isn't useful in treating parasitic diseases. It is unproven to have any benefit in treating COVID, and people are forgoing vaccination which is proven to decrease severe illness and death to take ivermectin instead.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 09/03/21 9:51 am ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| No one is saying that ivermectin isn't useful in treating parasitic diseases. It is unproven to have any benefit in treating COVID, and people are forgoing vaccination which is proven to decrease severe illness and death to take ivermectin instead. |
Bingo.
Again, "River Blindness" and "filariasis" are nowhere akin to Covid 19 in their pathology. It's like saying, "Amoxicillin is approved for humans, so I'll use it to prevent or treat my heartburn."
_________________
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Last edited by Howee on 09/03/21 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/03/21 9:52 am ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| No one is saying that ivermectin isn't useful in treating parasitic diseases. It is unproven to have any benefit in treating COVID, and people are forgoing vaccination which is proven to decrease severe illness and death to take ivermectin instead. |
No one is saying that anyone is saying that. But are you saying that people aren't mocking and making sport of this here?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 09/03/21 10:24 am ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| No one is saying that ivermectin isn't useful in treating parasitic diseases. It is unproven to have any benefit in treating COVID, and people are forgoing vaccination which is proven to decrease severe illness and death to take ivermectin instead. |
No one is saying that anyone is saying that. But are you saying that people aren't mocking and making sport of this here? |
I didn't say anything about mockery one way or another. If you're referring to comments about cow pills and the quacks that recommend them, then I can find you articles about patients who died after sourcing ivermectin from farm supply companies and I already provided links to fraudulent articles by unscrupulous physicians recommending ivermectin.
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 09/03/21 2:00 pm ::: |
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I just wanted to point out something that isn’t in the ivermectin news story publicly while people are mocking and making sport around the idea that a form of it is also used as an animal dewormer. (Actually I’ve seen some news reports that seem to leave the fact that it’s also a medicine for humans out of their pieces entirely) And that is that in 2015 ivermectin won the Nobel Prize for Medicine. There’s the word MEDICINE. And there’s the Nobel Prize. That’s all! You don’t get the Nobel Prize for Medicine for deworming livestock. I’m a critic of how information is presented to the people and even what information is presented to us.
There is no explaining any of what’s happened between a) what’s happening b) what we’re being told is happening c) what we should be doing about what’s happening d) our public health officials and e) the news media passing their information on to us while trying to simultaneously accomplish a host of other things like report what is happening while maintaining a political bias that must overlay everything they’re reporting on.
Off topic example and it’s stunning to witness. CNN’s coverage of the hurricane. You cannot watch ONE MINUTE of it without hearing the words CLIMATE CHANGE or GLOBAL WARMING come from their anchor’s mouths. They’re not wrong. I’m on their side against global warming. (If you’re already missing my point, comrades.) But I also recognize what they’re doing.
I’m personally not just sick of people chewing on COVID politics like it’s habanero beef jerky but I think the politicization of COVID which seems now to never end — everyone who has anything to say is coming from either the left or the right, or more specifically, a Democratic Party stance or a Republican Party stance — has been the absolute worst human behavior to emerge and present itself since the pandemic began.
I just posted some information from the New York Times. It’s not ‘if I’m saying this’ or ‘if I’m saying that.’ You don’t have to look for hidden political motives. I’m just one of those weird people who like to talk about things without necessarily overlaying an ideological or partisan political loyalty on top of everything I say. Especially COVID.
At its best, a long time ago, this was a place where some of us did that._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 09/05/21 4:10 pm ::: |
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Well, we are wrong. There have been many randomized controlled trials (RCT's) that have studied the efficacy of ivermectin as a Covid preventative and therapeutic.
HERE is a meta-analysis of 24 RCT's involving 3406 participants just published in the American Journal of Therapeutics, in which the Absract concludes:
| Quote: |
| Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally. |
At the end of the Discussion, the authors further conclude:
| Quote: |
Given the evidence of efficacy, safety, low cost, and current death rates, ivermectin is likely to have an impact on health and economic outcomes of the pandemic across many countries. Ivermectin is not a new and experimental drug with an unknown safety profile. It is a WHO “Essential Medicine” already used in several different indications, in colossal cumulative volumes. Corticosteroids have become an accepted standard of care in COVID-19, based on a single RCT of dexamethasone.1 If a single RCT is sufficient for the adoption of dexamethasone, then a fortiori the evidence of 2 dozen RCTs supports the adoption of ivermectin.
Ivermectin is likely to be an equitable, acceptable, and feasible global intervention against COVID-19. Health professionals should strongly consider its use, in both treatment and prophylaxis. |
Based on this, I would take ivermectin if I ever got Covid and my doctor prescribed it. The listed side effects are much less ominous than prescription medications I have taken daily for years. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/05/21 4:30 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Based on this, I would take ivermectin if I ever got Covid and my doctor prescribed it. The listed side effects are much less ominous than prescription medications I have taken daily for years. |
Again, the news stories you were railing against are not about people taking it as prescribed. They're about people clearing the shelves of it at Tractor Supply.
_________________
I'm sick and tired of the stories that you always tell
Shakespeare couldn't tell a story that well
See, you're the largest liar that was ever created
You and Pinocchio are probably related
Full of criss-crossed fits, you lie all the time
Your tongue should be embarrassed, you're a threat to mankind
|
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3519
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| Posted: 09/05/21 6:03 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Well, we are wrong. There have been many randomized controlled trials (RCT's) that have studied the efficacy of ivermectin as a Covid preventative and therapeutic.
HERE is a meta-analysis of 24 RCT's involving 3406 participants just published in the American Journal of Therapeutics, in which the Absract concludes:
| Quote: |
| Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally. |
At the end of the Discussion, the authors further conclude:
| Quote: |
Given the evidence of efficacy, safety, low cost, and current death rates, ivermectin is likely to have an impact on health and economic outcomes of the pandemic across many countries. Ivermectin is not a new and experimental drug with an unknown safety profile. It is a WHO “Essential Medicine” already used in several different indications, in colossal cumulative volumes. Corticosteroids have become an accepted standard of care in COVID-19, based on a single RCT of dexamethasone.1 If a single RCT is sufficient for the adoption of dexamethasone, then a fortiori the evidence of 2 dozen RCTs supports the adoption of ivermectin.
Ivermectin is likely to be an equitable, acceptable, and feasible global intervention against COVID-19. Health professionals should strongly consider its use, in both treatment and prophylaxis. |
Based on this, I would take ivermectin if I ever got Covid and my doctor prescribed it. The listed side effects are much less ominous than prescription medications I have taken daily for years. |
The study you're citing has come under heavy criticism because it includes Elgazzer's faked data. I posted about this above.
| Quote: |
The Elgazzar study was one of the the largest and most promising showing the drug may help Covid patients, and has often been cited by proponents of the drug as evidence of its effectiveness. This is despite a peer-reviewed paper published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases in June finding ivermectin is “not a viable option to treat COVID-19 patients”.
Meyerowitz-Katz told the Guardian that “this is one of the biggest ivermectin studies out there”, and it appeared to him the data was “just totally faked”. This was concerning because two meta-analyses [one of these is the one cited above by Glenn] of ivermectin for treating Covid-19 had included the Elgazzar study in the results. A meta-analysis is a statistical analysis that combines the results of multiple scientific studies to determine what the overall scientific literature has found about a treatment or intervention.
“Because the Elgazzar study is so large, and so massively positive – showing a 90% reduction in mortality – it hugely skews the evidence in favour of ivermectin,” Meyerowitz-Katz said.
“If you remove this one study from the scientific literature, suddenly there are very few positive randomised control trials of ivermectin for Covid-19. Indeed, if you get rid of just this research, most meta-analyses that have found positive results would have their conclusions entirely reversed.” |
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns[/b]
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 09/05/21 8:13 pm ::: |
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| How and why does all this misinformation get so much traction, at a time when we all NEED The Truth?
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"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/05/21 9:26 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| How and why does all this misinformation get so much traction, at a time when we all NEED The Truth? |
Who gets to decide what the truth is and what we should hear? And should we only hear what some people decide is the truth? Maybe people who are bought off by big pharma? And that's the dilemma. Do we trust the Democratic Party and not the Republican Party? What if the only difference between the two is The Show? The battles around the party's traditional pet wedge issues that keeps the people distracted from what both parties really are doing.
I'm worried about misinformation getting traction. But that pales in comparison to my concerns about who is making the decisions about what we're hearing. And they ARE making those decisions. And they're utilizing Big Tech to enforce the public conversations about vaccines, treatments, origins of the virus and on and on. Now we can't talk about things on these platforms without being censored or de-platformed entirely. I mean, please tell me you guys aren't for that._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 09/05/21 10:51 pm ::: |
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| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| The study you're citing has come under heavy criticism because it includes Elgazzer's faked data. |
No one has proved the Elgazzar study to be "faked". You're citing the opinion of a government funded blogger in Australia reported in the Guardian, a sensationalist British tabloid. Why would a group of doctors publish a "fraudulent" study about ivermectin? What's in a fake study for them? Maybe they made methodological or statistical errors, and that is under scrutiny.
In any event, the Bryant et al. meta-analysis of 24 RCT's I quoted includes only 200 Elgazzar participants in their total meta-sample size of 3406. Moreover, in their discussion, Bryant et al. point out that there are many observational studies (not RCT's) from around the world that are consistent with their meta-analysis findings.
How much evidence does an actual practicing doctor need beyond all this to prescribe a virtually harmless "wonder drug" for other parasitic and inflammatory diseases as a therapeutic for sick Covid patients. To me, it would be unethical for them not to. A frontline doctor in a medical emergency can't wait 10 years to get WHO and FDA approved studies.
In a medical emergency situation with little to no firm long-term studies, I would almost always value the opinion of the thousands of bloody-gown frontline doctors who are actually treating millions of Covid patients more than I would the politicized and highly risk averse blue suit bureaucrat doctors sitting in office buildings called WHO or FDA or CDC. |
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