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Shades
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Ex-Ref
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 Posted: 09/03/24 7:10 pm ::: |
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SDS changed shoes at halftime.
Let's hope it helps!!!!
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 09/03/24 7:53 pm ::: |
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| How did AT not get called for the shove on SDS? About 2:25 in the 4th.
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 09/03/24 7:53 pm ::: |
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| NNEKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ex-Ref
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| Posted: 09/03/24 7:55 pm ::: |
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| And does Noelle have the best voice??? So soothing.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 09/04/24 8:09 am ::: |
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| I tried watching this game..... It was torture. Missed layups, turnovers, and grabbing, holding players to the point no one could make a clean move. One stretch where it was just missed layups and turnovers for like 2-3 possessions for each team. Both teams packed the paint, hacked the shit out of each other and there was very little spacing, pace, or beauty in the game. Were the players talented? Yes. Was it enjoyable as basketball, oh hell no. I flipped to a different channel and watched an anime show to cleanse my palate before watching most of the 3rd and all of the 4th quarter.
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Michael
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ClayK
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| Posted: 09/04/24 8:34 am ::: |
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You play to win. Alyssa Thomas isn't going to win games by being a finesse player. The Sun's "shooters" couldn't shoot.
Seattle is so thin they grabbed a retread who had one good shooting game in the Olympics and put her in the starting lineup.
That doesn't detract from your point, but sometimes basketball isn't pretty. College basketball, for example, is usually very hard to watch because of the lack of skill.
It's a difficult game.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 09/04/24 8:49 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
You play to win. Alyssa Thomas isn't going to win games by being a finesse player. The Sun's "shooters" couldn't shoot.
Seattle is so thin they grabbed a retread who had one good shooting game in the Olympics and put her in the starting lineup.
That doesn't detract from your point, but sometimes basketball isn't pretty. College basketball, for example, is usually very hard to watch because of the lack of skill.
It's a difficult game. |
The college game is much easier for me to watch because the refs call fouls and do not let the game degenerate into basketbrawl with all the grabbing, shoving, and pushing shooters while in the motion of shooting that the WNBA players call "good defense". There is a lot better flow to college games, even with two poor teams facing off, the game has more flow, rhythm, and beauty than your typical WNBA wrestling match. Obviously not everyone agrees, but that is the perspective of the WNBA from most casual basketball fans, which is why the Fever draw millions and the other teams only draw those old school fans from before Clark that can stomach that rough and tumble type of game. That style will never play well for the casual fan.
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Michael
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 09/04/24 11:13 am ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
You play to win. Alyssa Thomas isn't going to win games by being a finesse player. The Sun's "shooters" couldn't shoot.
Seattle is so thin they grabbed a retread who had one good shooting game in the Olympics and put her in the starting lineup.
That doesn't detract from your point, but sometimes basketball isn't pretty. College basketball, for example, is usually very hard to watch because of the lack of skill.
It's a difficult game. |
The college game is much easier for me to watch because the refs call fouls and do not let the game degenerate into basketbrawl with all the grabbing, shoving, and pushing shooters while in the motion of shooting that the WNBA players call "good defense". There is a lot better flow to college games, even with two poor teams facing off, the game has more flow, rhythm, and beauty than your typical WNBA wrestling match. Obviously not everyone agrees, but that is the perspective of the WNBA from most casual basketball fans, which is why the Fever draw millions and the other teams only draw those old school fans from before Clark that can stomach that rough and tumble type of game. That style will never play well for the casual fan. |
I'm not sure where you get your data on the "perspective of most casual fans." College basketball, to me, does not flow particularly well, the officiating is even more sporadic than the W, and the players, obviously, are not as skilled or athletic.
College programs in Northern California, and indeed on the West Coast, do not draw well. You can sit courtside pretty much anywhere, from Cal to Santa Clara to Seattle to Sacramento State. And TV ratings do not bear out your contention, except of course for the NCAA tournament.
But you may have some data I'm unaware of.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 09/04/24 12:11 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
You play to win. Alyssa Thomas isn't going to win games by being a finesse player. The Sun's "shooters" couldn't shoot.
Seattle is so thin they grabbed a retread who had one good shooting game in the Olympics and put her in the starting lineup.
That doesn't detract from your point, but sometimes basketball isn't pretty. College basketball, for example, is usually very hard to watch because of the lack of skill.
It's a difficult game. |
The college game is much easier for me to watch because the refs call fouls and do not let the game degenerate into basketbrawl with all the grabbing, shoving, and pushing shooters while in the motion of shooting that the WNBA players call "good defense". There is a lot better flow to college games, even with two poor teams facing off, the game has more flow, rhythm, and beauty than your typical WNBA wrestling match. Obviously not everyone agrees, but that is the perspective of the WNBA from most casual basketball fans, which is why the Fever draw millions and the other teams only draw those old school fans from before Clark that can stomach that rough and tumble type of game. That style will never play well for the casual fan. |
I'm not sure where you get your data on the "perspective of most casual fans." College basketball, to me, does not flow particularly well, the officiating is even more sporadic than the W, and the players, obviously, are not as skilled or athletic.
College programs in Northern California, and indeed on the West Coast, do not draw well. You can sit courtside pretty much anywhere, from Cal to Santa Clara to Seattle to Sacramento State. And TV ratings do not bear out your contention, except of course for the NCAA tournament.
But you may have some data I'm unaware of. |
Women's college attendance and viewership are rising at a much higher rate than WNBA previous to this season. I have also talked with many WCBB fans on different forums who share my opinion that the WNBA was unwatchable for the overly rough style of play that destroys most of the beauty of the game.
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Michael
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 09/04/24 2:18 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Women's college attendance and viewership are rising at a much higher rate than WNBA previous to this season. |
I'm sure that the data for the 300-odd non-P5 schools will corroborate this claim, yes?
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 09/04/24 2:46 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Women's college attendance and viewership are rising at a much higher rate than WNBA previous to this season. |
I'm sure that the data for the 300-odd non-P5 schools will corroborate this claim, yes? |
Why segregate out only the non-P4 schools? It seems an intellectually dishonest way to try and prop up the WNBA by creating a straw-man argument that has no relevance to what I have been saying.
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Michael
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ClayK
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| Posted: 09/05/24 8:36 am ::: |
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I'm not doubting you ... what precisely are the attendance figures for an average college women's game, P4 or otherwise?
And how much have they gone up from, say, two years ago? Or 20?
I also have to point out that most college attendance numbers are padded by a couple hundred, at the least. I was standing next to a PR person in an all-but-empty arena after a college game, and saw her tell the intern to add 250 to the total to get it to 700.
Anecdotal, of course, but there aren't exactly stringent protocols in ticket counting in college. The WNBA really cleaned up that kind of fudging a few years ago, I think in response to sponsor requests and financial scrutiny.
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Michael
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| Posted: 09/05/24 9:48 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
I'm not doubting you ... what precisely are the attendance figures for an average college women's game, P4 or otherwise?
And how much have they gone up from, say, two years ago? Or 20?
I also have to point out that most college attendance numbers are padded by a couple hundred, at the least. I was standing next to a PR person in an all-but-empty arena after a college game, and saw her tell the intern to add 250 to the total to get it to 700.
Anecdotal, of course, but there aren't exactly stringent protocols in ticket counting in college. The WNBA really cleaned up that kind of fudging a few years ago, I think in response to sponsor requests and financial scrutiny. |
I could not find the article I read that WCBB attendance was rising at almost double the WNBA rate, before this last season. I have looked twice, but in vain. Average attendance is 1400 I believe for all 340+ colleges in D1. That means for one week every team playing home and away the total attendance would be over 350k. For every WNBA team doing the same, it would be about 100k. Far less games, but that should make them a bigger draw. Even with this season, the WNBA has not recaptured the audience it had in the late 90s first couple years of the 2000s. I do agree that all attendance numbers are padded. WNBA teams give away hundreds if not thousands of tickets to boost the attendance numbers as they count all the giveaways as attending if they were redeemed or not.
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Michael
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Luuuc
#NATC
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| Posted: 09/05/24 9:49 am ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Women's college attendance and viewership are rising at a much higher rate than WNBA previous to this season. |
I'm sure that the data for the 300-odd non-P5 schools will corroborate this claim, yes? |
Feels like a *citation needed moment, although at the same time, if we're talking rate of growth then increasing from 100 to 200 is a much higher rate than increasing from 5000 to 6000, so it also depends what you actually value in a growth metric.
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ClayK
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| Posted: 09/05/24 10:43 am ::: |
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The WNBA numbers in the early years were fantasy. They gave away tickets and counted them even when people didn't come. If you watched the games, it was pretty clear what was going on.
The actual number of paid tickets is much higher now than it ever was.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 09/05/24 7:00 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| Women's college attendance and viewership are rising at a much higher rate than WNBA previous to this season. |
I'm sure that the data for the 300-odd non-P5 schools will corroborate this claim, yes? |
Why segregate out only the non-P4 schools? It seems an intellectually dishonest way to try and prop up the WNBA by creating a straw-man argument that has no relevance to what I have been saying. |
What's intellectually dishonest is pretending that attendance and viewership is rising at a higher rate for college basketball than it is for the WNBA, when the truth is that attendance and viewership for over ninety percent of women's college basketball is poor, has always been poor, and is always going to be poor.
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/06/24 6:41 am ::: |
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Could the 2022 figure show a residual affect from the pandemic where people were not yet comfortable going out in crowds?
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ClayK
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| Posted: 09/06/24 9:03 am ::: |
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Overall, league attendance is up by 47 percent from 2023, and this season is currently third in league history (9,725). They averaged more fans in the 1998 and 1999 seasons (10,869 and 10,205).
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The 1998 and 1999 figures are essentially made up, but even so ...
And I'm still wondering about the data on "casual fans" and their impression of the WNBA.
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pilight
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| Posted: 09/06/24 10:45 am ::: |
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| wnbafan wrote: |
Could the 2022 figure show a residual affect from the pandemic where people were not yet comfortable going out in crowds? |
I think that's likely. If you go back 10 years, to 2013-14, you'll find average attendance is just under 1500.
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/07/24 6:37 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
Overall, league attendance is up by 47 percent from 2023, and this season is currently third in league history (9,725). They averaged more fans in the 1998 and 1999 seasons (10,869 and 10,205).
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The 1998 and 1999 figures are essentially made up, but even so ...
And I'm still wondering about the data on "casual fans" and their impression of the WNBA. |
I know people claim the Mystics numbers are padded but I was at the phone booth for the early Holdsclaw years (sth 1999-2006 then I moved), that place was full and rocking. If we won, the party continued on the Metro for home. It was a blast!
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Luuuc
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| Posted: 09/07/24 7:56 am ::: |
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| wnbafan wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
Overall, league attendance is up by 47 percent from 2023, and this season is currently third in league history (9,725). They averaged more fans in the 1998 and 1999 seasons (10,869 and 10,205).
-----------
The 1998 and 1999 figures are essentially made up, but even so ...
And I'm still wondering about the data on "casual fans" and their impression of the WNBA. |
I know people claim the Mystics numbers are padded but I was at the phone booth for the early Holdsclaw years (sth 1999-2006 then I moved), that place was full and rocking. If we won, the party continued on the Metro for home. It was a blast! |
It definitely used to be very well attended. That was clear from the broadcasts as well.
On the other hand, when I went to a Liberty @ Mystics game in 2012 the place was like a wasteland, and the attendance numbers were inflated to a ridiculous extent.
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