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snzuluz



Joined: 10 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: 04/01/24 5:12 pm    ::: Harper out at Tennessee Reply Reply with quote

I’m sure this announcement took many people by surprise. She does walk away with $2.2 million on what was remaining in her contract. It was interesting to read that instead of getting 100% of what was left because it was done Monday, today she gets 50% and what was remaining.

I would say it doesn’t bode well when you bring in absolutely no recruits in 2023. That seems like a red flag and I’m sure something that administration has been closely watching.

With this firing you wonder if Kenny Brooks wishes he would’ve waited a little bit longer before he left Virginia Tech for his new position next year. Tennessee would certainly be a much better starting point, then Kentucky.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/01/24 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fed up, disgusted, angry...you have no idea. What other coach would get fired with that record? Lady Vol fans and boosters are such WHINERS! Nothing is ever good enough because nobody can ever be Saint Pat.
Some people have the gall to mention Jeff Walz. Ugh. If they are going to have a male coach, breaking tradition, I would much prefer Wes Moore, who at lest has some Tennessee roots behind him, having coached at Chattanooga for some years.



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 7:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Winning percentage

Kellie Harper 0.675 at TN
Kristy Curry 0.626 overall 0.563 at Alabama
Johnnie Harris 0.505
Mike Neighbors 0.641 overall 0.603 at Arkansas
Kelly Rae Finley 0.571
Katie Abrahamson-Henderson 0.531 at Georgia
Joni Taylor 0.609 overall 0.459 at TAMU
Sam Purcell 0.662
Robin Pingeton 0.616 overall 0.543 Missouri
Shea Ralph 0.515
Yolett McPhee-McCuin 0.573 overall .0551 Mississippi

Unless I missed something, only Mulkey and Staley in SEC with better records

I didn't count Brooks


snzuluz



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 8:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ESPN put up the side-by-side stats from Kelly to Holly. Holly actually won more than 71% of her games and had to SEC conference championships. Something Kelly has not done and her winning percentage is lower.

To not have a single recruit come in in her 2023 class, there’s a red flag and I wonder when she chose not to guard Cordoza who yes made a lucky three-point shot to win the SEC conference championship, that’s a glaring coaching error. We all know every school has all their players practice three point shots and often at the end of practice they do a three point shot contest with all the players participating. Cardoza had absolutely no one around her when she took that shot. Maybe that one play started to put doubts in the A.D.‘s mind as to whether Harper is the right person to lead a major power five conference program.

Most AD’s already have a candidate in mind who they’re going to go after before they pull the trigger on firing a coach.

Harper had nice success when she left her mid major to head to North Carolina State and then that success dwindled to where she was fired from there. Maybe Harper is designed as a mid Major coach and does an outstanding job there, but isn’t quite the right fit for a power five conference job.

If you look at numbers alone, Holly didn’t deserve to be fired as they were all better than Kelly’s… not saying that Holly is a better coach. Tennessee and some of these legacy schools need to go completely away from someone who played there to keep it in the family and look for someone outside the family.


snzuluz



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 8:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It will be interesting if they try and lure a current coach from a power five conference or look for a top assistant from a power five conference.

Going way back, UCLA men really have never had great success from any of the coaches who replaced John Wooden, or at least what their fan base and big boosters want. You could say the same thing for Indiana men’s basketball after Knight was fired.

Sometimes, there are jobs you just wouldn’t wish on anyone due to the expectations. The bigger the boosters funding who spend big bucks, the less appealing a job would be I would think for many coaches. In the end, it’s the boosters that dictate what goes on in college athletics and when they feel a coach should be fired, since they are the ones who end up paying out most of the buyout of a contract.




Last edited by snzuluz on 04/02/24 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total
Queenie



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 8:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Tennessee thinks Pat will come back as an angry lich if they hire someone who didn't go to Tennessee. I agree, they need to look outside the family... but I don't think they will. And then everyone's gonna get mad again that the new coach can't immediately do Pat things.



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thardy929



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 8:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I felt like Kellie had earned one more year, based on significant injuries or health issues just about every season of her tenure, but even with the injuries, I was increasingly disappointed with the product on the floor. The offense showed some signs of improvement, but it was hard to tell if that was just having a superstar player like Rickea Jackson, who will not be there next year to bail the offense out. The defense looked very good with a healthy Tamari Key and Jordan Horston, but this year with no Horston and Key at 50%, the defense looked very unorganized (beyond just the Cardoso heartbreaker).

The W-L record wasn't bad, but her record against ranked teams was not very good (something like 12-37) - at least not up to Tennessee standards. I do appreciate that she consistently played one of the most challenging non-conference schedules anyway (unlike the later years under Holly).

Recruiting was also clearly an issue, especially at the high school level, which some chalked up to lack of NIL funds, so I hope that for whoever comes in, any potential NIL issues have been sorted out.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think either of these would really happen, but I didn't think Harper would be let go either.

Would Bluder leave Iowa?? I'm guessing that TN would pay better, but I don't really see that as motivation for her to leave.

What about a men's coach moving over? I don't know the men's coaches, but I'm thinking of someone like the Oakland coach that upset KY?

What connections does the TN AD have to the men's side of the game?



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Michael



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 9:22 am    ::: Kara Lawson Reply Reply with quote

I would guess that is the number one name on the UTenn ADs list for the next coach, but will Kara go for it?



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 11:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I did something yesterday I don't recall ever doing and read many pages of posts on the Volnation forum. The significant majority of posters there seem to oppose hiring Kara Lawson. The reasons given are that she's proved even less at the D1 level than Harper ever has, that she may be a good defensive coach but her offense is dull, and that they don't want anyone from the Summitt tree after the Warlick and Harper disappointments.

Of course, the proposed lists of established coaches (as opposed to up-and-coming assistants) is necessarily limited with some rather unlikely: Dawn Staley, Jeff Walz, Scott Rueck, Lindsay Gottlieb, Vic Schaefer, Jennie Baranczyk, Wes Moore, Kenny Brooks (who somehow will get out of his new Kentucky contract), Niele Ivey, Lisa Fortier, Cori Close, Nikki Collen. No one suggested Tyler Summitt.
snzuluz



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I had hoped the poster who suggested Pat's son as a replacement at Rocky Top, posted it on April 1st, as an April fools joke...but it was dated on April 2nd...so either a day late or is was not a joke.

The poster (although he is along time poster on this site) did not follow or forgot his disaster when he became a head coach...the only reason he is not in jail is the athlete he coached when he was an assistant coach at Marquette (and then transferred with him when he got his first head job), was over the age of 18!

He will NEVER coach again or be considered for a women's job on the collegiate level...he was going to be his wife's assistant (the women's he cheated on) on the HS level, and the school district got so much heat for the hire, he resigned.

He destroyed his first wife's life, his mothers reputation, and his as well. Thank goodness Pat was not alive to see the disaster he created by thinking with the lower part of his body rather than his head.


Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I did something yesterday I don't recall ever doing and read many pages of posts on the Volnation forum. The significant majority of posters there seem to oppose hiring Kara Lawson. The reasons given are that she's proved even less at the D1 level than Harper ever has, that she may be a good defensive coach but her offense is dull, and that they don't want anyone from the Summitt tree after the Warlick and Harper disappointments.

Of course, the proposed lists of established coaches (as opposed to up-and-coming assistants) is necessarily limited with some rather unlikely: Dawn Staley, Jeff Walz, Scott Rueck, Lindsay Gottlieb, Vic Schaefer, Jennie Baranczyk, Wes Moore, Kenny Brooks (who somehow will get out of his new Kentucky contract), Niele Ivey, Lisa Fortier, Cori Close. No one suggested Tyler Summitt.


I'd be more than shocked if Niele left ND. So much talent there next year. She's about 4 hours from Detroit where her son plays. She has a grandchild. I just don't see it and any TN fan that thinks it's a possibility, is delusional. Chasing the money just isn't who Niele is.



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“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Youth Coach



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 1:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm so bummed about this news. I was hoping it would go better with Harper returning home.

Sigh.

By the way, one of the planned recruits has now reopened things with the firing.
ladydawgs96



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:

What connections does the TN AD have to the men's side of the game?

His brother is the current men’s coach at Georgia. I don’t think he’d entertain that though.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They might consider Colorado's JR Payne, who isn't really in the "Family" but does have some Tennessee ties and has done well at Colorado. Or New Mexico State's Jody Adams, who is family and has apparently learned a lot since her stint at Wichita State and has a number of years of coaching experience now. I don't think they really want to pillage the SEC though I did think of Joni Taylor. Alex Simmons of Memphis didn't do so well this year but is family. Or they could go further afield and look at Coach Mox at UVA. She's done a nice job rebuilding a practically dormant program. Just spitballing here....



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thardy929



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 2:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Youth Coach wrote:

By the way, one of the planned recruits has now reopened things with the firing.


Both of them have (Brooks and Chastain). Then again, the fact that they were 2 of 3 high school commits from the last, what, 3 years(?) was a big part of the problem.


PickledGinger



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phil wrote:
Winning percentage

Kellie Harper 0.675 at TN
Kristy Curry 0.626 overall 0.563 at Alabama
Johnnie Harris 0.505
Mike Neighbors 0.641 overall 0.603 at Arkansas
Kelly Rae Finley 0.571
Katie Abrahamson-Henderson 0.531 at Georgia
Joni Taylor 0.609 overall 0.459 at TAMU
Sam Purcell 0.662
Robin Pingeton 0.616 overall 0.543 Missouri
Shea Ralph 0.515
Yolett McPhee-McCuin 0.573 overall .0551 Mississippi

Unless I missed something, only Mulkey and Staley in SEC with better records

I didn't count Brooks


It's even more ridiculous if you look at Conference Only records:

Mulkey @ LSU - .827
Staley @ South Carolina - .783
Harper @ Tennessee - .688
Purcell @ Mississippi State - .531

Pingeton @ Missouri - .442
Neighbors @ Arkansas - .432
McPhee-McCuin @ Ole Miss - .426
Finley @ Florida - .417
Curry @ Alabama - .403
Abrahamson-Henderson @ Georgia - .375
Ralph @ Vanderbilt - .333
Harris @ Auburn - .313
Taylor @ Texas A&M - .250

She's won 15% more of her SEC games than the next best coach in the conference. Absolutely mind-blowing and infuriating decision by Tennessee.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 7:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PickledGinger wrote:
It's even more ridiculous if you look at Conference Only records:

Harper @ Tennessee - .688


Which is also a step down from Holly Warlick's .696 SEC winning percentage...



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 04/02/24 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think it's going to be Rueck.

Not sure why. Just a feeling I guess.



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“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
ucbart



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PostPosted: 04/03/24 5:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
I think it's going to be Rueck.

Not sure why. Just a feeling I guess.


Same, especially since the Pac-12 is breaking up and Oregon State is going to be in the WCC.


GEF34



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PostPosted: 04/03/24 6:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ucbart wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
I think it's going to be Rueck.

Not sure why. Just a feeling I guess.


Same, especially since the Pac-12 is breaking up and Oregon State is going to be in the WCC.


It would be an interesting move, he has basically been in the state of Oregon his entire life and looking up the 2 universities its quite possible he didn't have to move to a different house when he went from George Fox to Oregon State. If he makes the move I think he would do great there, but I could definite see him not wanting to move away from his family and uproot his life.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 04/03/24 1:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
I think it's going to be Rueck.

Not sure why. Just a feeling I guess.


Can rueck recruit in the south though ? Against the likes of Staley , Mulkey , Now add Brooks and Shaefer to the list in the SEC im not convinced. People on their board are saying Hammon or Ivey and Shaefer as candidates awkwardly enough .



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/03/24 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see no reason to believe Ivey would be any better at recruiting the south than Rueck. She's a midwestern girl.

Hammon has never done recruiting at all and is less southern than Ivey.

I'd look at Lisa Fortier over Rueck.



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snzuluz



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PostPosted: 04/03/24 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bludder is 60 years old and born and bred in Iowa. She’s never leaving there.
I think she could run for governor of the state right now and get elected that’s how popular she is and has been for many many years.
She is a big fish in a little pond and that’s how she likes it.

I worked an Iowa basketball camp (when Stringer was the head coach and Coach Abe had just transferred out of Georgia into Iowa as a player) with her a few years before she took the Drake job, and it was a pleasure to spend a week with her. Good old fashion Midwestern values!


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PostPosted: 04/03/24 5:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lisa Bluder's not going anywhere. If you're going for an older coach, my money's on Wes Moore.



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