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| Who will win this game? |
| Aces |
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64% |
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| Wings |
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35% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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 Posted: 09/27/23 8:30 pm ::: |
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The key for beating the Aces is to make Chelsea Gray go left. Almost all her scoring comes from going right and nailing those jump shots and layups or from being left open. She's deadly.
Watch her, even when she goes to the left, she turns back and goes right before she shoots. She doesn't perform nearly as well going left as she does going to the right.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 09/28/23 7:10 am ::: |
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| Will Godzilla đ˛ stomp over Dallas again?
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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| Posted: 09/28/23 8:49 am ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Will Godzilla đ˛ stomp over Dallas again? |
It's 4th and 1...
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Spark4Life
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: 09/28/23 11:21 am ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Will Godzilla đ˛ stomp over Dallas again? |
Like it stomped the salary cap rules!
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Spark4Life
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: 09/28/23 11:21 am ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Will Godzilla đ˛ stomp over Dallas again? |
Like it stomped the salary cap rules!
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WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016
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| Posted: 09/28/23 3:19 pm ::: |
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| Spark4Life wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Will Godzilla đ˛ stomp over Dallas again? |
Like it stomped the salary cap rules! |
Any idea as to why there was no inquiry about NY's cap given that they added 2 in their prime former MVPs and one of the greatest PGs ever in the same season?
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/28/23 3:28 pm ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Will Godzilla đ˛ stomp over Dallas again? |
Well, she's retired, so probably not...
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016
Posts: 566
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: 09/28/23 5:40 pm ::: |
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| WfanFrJmp wrote: |
| Spark4Life wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Will Godzilla đ˛ stomp over Dallas again? |
Like it stomped the salary cap rules! |
Any idea as to why there was no inquiry about NY's cap given that they added 2 in their prime former MVPs and one of the greatest PGs ever in the same season? |
Probably because there was no allegation that the Liberty tried to pay either of those 3 (or any other recent signee) under the table like there was against the Aces.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/28/23 5:49 pm ::: |
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| bcdawg04 wrote: |
| WfanFrJmp wrote: |
| Any idea as to why there was no inquiry about NY's cap given that they added 2 in their prime former MVPs and one of the greatest PGs ever in the same season? |
Probably because there was no allegation that the Liberty tried to pay either of those 3 (or any other recent signee) under the table like there was against the Aces. |
I feel like that merits the follow-up question of, "Well, why not, then?" Both Stewart and Vandersloot took below market value to sign with New York, and the Tsais have been charged with offering improper benefits in the past. So why do people seem to be assuming that the Liberty's hands are clean? Is it as simple as no scorned ex-player dropped dime on them? Why do they get the benefit of the doubt?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/28/23 6:17 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| bcdawg04 wrote: |
| WfanFrJmp wrote: |
| Any idea as to why there was no inquiry about NY's cap given that they added 2 in their prime former MVPs and one of the greatest PGs ever in the same season? |
Probably because there was no allegation that the Liberty tried to pay either of those 3 (or any other recent signee) under the table like there was against the Aces. |
I feel like that merits the follow-up question of, "Well, why not, then?" Both Stewart and Vandersloot took below market value to sign with New York, and the Tsais have been charged with offering improper benefits in the past. So why do people seem to be assuming that the Liberty's hands are clean? Is it as simple as no scorned ex-player dropped dime on them? Why do they get the benefit of the doubt? |
Given who the Liberty players in question are, there is an obvious answer but it won't be popular.
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 09/28/23 6:33 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| bcdawg04 wrote: |
| WfanFrJmp wrote: |
| Any idea as to why there was no inquiry about NY's cap given that they added 2 in their prime former MVPs and one of the greatest PGs ever in the same season? |
Probably because there was no allegation that the Liberty tried to pay either of those 3 (or any other recent signee) under the table like there was against the Aces. |
I feel like that merits the follow-up question of, "Well, why not, then?" Both Stewart and Vandersloot took below market value to sign with New York, and the Tsais have been charged with offering improper benefits in the past. So why do people seem to be assuming that the Liberty's hands are clean? Is it as simple as no scorned ex-player dropped dime on them? Why do they get the benefit of the doubt? |
Good question. I do think it is because no scorned ex-player has made such an allegation against the Liberty.
Sometimes one has to be careful about making specific accusations publicly.
During the supposed investigation of the Aces, a couple of teams' owners (Minnesota was one, I don't remember the other) said they were eagerly awaiting the outcome of the investigation. They basically said that a suitable punishment would signal that such third party payments described by Hamby were not okay; a lack of a suitable punishment would indicate that such payments were not a serious violation. So I would not be surprised if other teams started offering under the table payments after that investigation closed.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 09/29/23 5:46 pm ::: |
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NY cap sheet isn't that obvious
Laney 201k Jones 211k CVS 194k Stewart 180k (ok a little low but she only signed for a year so could get maxed next year, has endorsements and allowed them to keep Sabally and pay CVS a decent amount) Thorton at 110k and while I like her Dolson's 160k is not a number that screams team trying to skirt the cap
TBH Vegas has relatively OK cap sheet as well
Gray 196k Wilson 202k Plum 200k Young 195k it only get really funky when you get to Parker 100k but it is easy to justify Parker makes bank on TNT and NBA TV in the off season and wanted to play for a championship so took a cheap deal to achieve that goal. Clark's 110k and Stokes 81k might also be considered a little suspect but not that much they are both bench role player (until Parker went out, how ever both got payed much more in 22 than in 23) The problem here (and this could exist in NY) is that management clearly gives these player other perks, and maybe even access to pre-arranged income opportunities under the table. Which came out when Hamby blew the Whistle because they traded her while pregnant made her feel crappy about being pregnant and she lost out on those possibly illegal perks after feeling like she had taken one for the team by taking a lower salary.
The issue isn't players taking less money to create a roster or situation they want to be a part of it is team's incentivizing the taking of less money by the player by offer illegal income or gift opportunities.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 09/29/23 6:33 pm ::: |
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They should develop a formula based on achievements, so a player like Parker canât be signed for base vet minimum. Letâs say this formula comes up with a figure of $175,000 as a minimum salary for Parker. That might cut down on superteam finagling and improprieties.
If they donât do something like this, the superteam problem (if you believe itâs a problem) will probably get worse, as more and more WNBA players are becoming richer outside the league and arenât really concerned about their WNBA salaries.
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WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016
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| Posted: 09/29/23 9:37 pm ::: |
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Do we recall that a few players in Seattle took < $100k Sue's (and Stewie's) last year or 2? The point of my questions? Well they really are rhetorical, so there's no need to rehash it. We pretty much know why some teams are scrutinized and others aren't...why we accept (or don't question) the actions of some... why we laud certain athletes for "sacrificing" pay to play together but don't give the same grace to others. We also have to live with the fact that cap sheet "creativity" is not a new phenomenon. With the hard cap, teams find ways to build their desired rosters.
On to the game, Dallas has some life! Will they keep punching or will the Aces find their footing and close this out tonight? We shall see!
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/29/23 10:06 pm ::: |
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Aces didn't win a game all season in which they were held under 79 points.
They're on pace to score 65.
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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Spark4Life
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: 09/29/23 10:38 pm ::: |
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| Kudos to the Wings on a great season đ
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/29/23 10:38 pm ::: |
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Ogunbowale 0-5 in the last three minutes.
<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/yAXDs06NsEuRPOhOMA" width="480" height="272" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe>
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My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 09/30/23 1:27 am ::: |
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| WfanFrJmp wrote: |
Do we recall that a few players in Seattle took < $100k Sue's (and Stewie's) last year or 2? The point of my questions? Well they really are rhetorical, so there's no need to rehash it. We pretty much know why some teams are scrutinized and others aren't...why we accept (or don't question) the actions of some... why we laud certain athletes for "sacrificing" pay to play together but don't give the same grace to others. We also have to live with the fact that cap sheet "creativity" is not a new phenomenon. With the hard cap, teams find ways to build their desired rosters.
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2022
Bird $72,141
Stewart $228,094
2021
Bird $221,450
Stewart $190,550
Bird and Stewart were the highest paid players for SEA in 2021. The whole rest of the team got scrub pay.
Stewart actually made more in both of her last two years in SEA than she did with the Liberty this year ($180,000).
Because Bird was making a documentary about her last year in the WNBA (whatever happened with that?), I believe she was willing to accept vet minimum to keep players like Loyd and Russell, so Bird could go out on a winning note. They did well (lost in semifinals) but it wasnât a championship season that Bird was probably hoping for.
I donât know if they are more scrutinized, but Vegas and NYL are owned by billionaires. So theyâre willing to spend much more money than most of the other owners, and billionaires tend to be brazen about it. âHey, Iâm rich, I can do what I wantâ, e.g. Donald Trump and Elon Musk; Joe Tsai and Mark Davis? Apparently Tsai approved charter flights for his players, which is against the CBA. That explains why he gets extra scrutiny for attempting to build a superteam. The Aces had the incident this year in which they tried to pay a player in an improper manner and they got penalized after Hamby got mad about being traded (because she was pregnant?). Itâs looking like they also deserve to be scrutinized more. So itâs not like these teams are being âpicked onâ undeservedly.
An ownership group like SEA are like the vet minimums of owners. They donât have the money to be brazen, and they canât afford to make a mistake. Personally, I think theyâve had success by getting lucky in a couple of good successive drafts (both early years and more recent years), and running the team right.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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| Posted: 09/30/23 5:11 am ::: |
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Should they put a limit on how much a team can spend on a championship ring as well? The rings Davis gave his players last season made the previous ones other teams handed out look like Crackerjack prizes. There are many other benefits to playing for teams like NY or LV and even LA as opposed to small market teams.
This is a reality in professional sports and that is even bleeding down to the colleges. Some markets are just more desireable. Some benefits are not even money related. Just compare the Victory Parade they had in Vagas and compare it to the one they had by previous winners. The year before no one showed up. It was akin to a high school homecoming parade in a small town. Do you people think this has no impact on players signing for less. Its not like they are giving up retirement money. They just do not get paid that much to start out with. The percentage they lose is not that much and easily made up in the off season with the right connecions.
Last I heard there is no law against players having off season jobs. Almost every player does. In the right city the odds of getting a better gig goes up consdiderable. In the previous game I saw C. Grays mom and one of the Grandma's sitting with Davis. I am sure he hooked them up with a suite at no cost. Heck he probably has them available for just this sort of situation. What other team can provice such perks.
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: 09/30/23 6:10 am ::: |
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interesting that dangerfield basically saw no action in favor of burton... considering the 4Q scoring.
defense is great, but you need to also score more points than the opponent.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
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| Posted: 09/30/23 6:20 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| bcdawg04 wrote: |
| WfanFrJmp wrote: |
| Any idea as to why there was no inquiry about NY's cap given that they added 2 in their prime former MVPs and one of the greatest PGs ever in the same season? |
Probably because there was no allegation that the Liberty tried to pay either of those 3 (or any other recent signee) under the table like there was against the Aces. |
I feel like that merits the follow-up question of, "Well, why not, then?" Both Stewart and Vandersloot took below market value to sign with New York, and the Tsais have been charged with offering improper benefits in the past. So why do people seem to be assuming that the Liberty's hands are clean? Is it as simple as no scorned ex-player dropped dime on them? Why do they get the benefit of the doubt? |
Given who the Liberty players in question are, there is an obvious answer but it won't be popular. |
Didnât Stewie already give it away? I wonât be surprised at all if the Liberty gets fined again for charter flightsâŚ
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 09/30/23 10:47 am ::: |
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| snlMINAJ wrote: |
interesting that dangerfield basically saw no action in favor of burton... considering the 4Q scoring.
defense is great, but you need to also score more points than the opponent. |
Do you think teams who go against the Aces should be allowed to put 6 players on the court, because you canât have the great team defense that was working for Dallas and Dangerfield on the floor at the same time. Defense is more than great. It was working for Dallas. What wasnât working was Saballyâs offense. She picked a bad time to go 2-15, and not all of that was great defense on her. She missed some wide open shots.
This is why I think all the teams that give Dangerfield a shot give up on her, because it is just too much to overcome what she doesnât give you on defense.
Burton had 6 assists, 5 steals and the best +/- on the team at 14. She was key. Trammell is a defensive minded coach. Iâd be surprised if Dangerfield is back on the team next year, even though her salary isnât demanding.
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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| Posted: 09/30/23 11:17 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| snlMINAJ wrote: |
interesting that dangerfield basically saw no action in favor of burton... considering the 4Q scoring.
defense is great, but you need to also score more points than the opponent. |
Do you think teams who go against the Aces should be allowed to put 6 players on the court, because you canât have the great team defense that was working for Dallas and Dangerfield on the floor at the same time. Defense is more than great. It was working for Dallas. What wasnât working was Saballyâs offense. She picked a bad time to go 2-15, and not all of that was great defense on her. She missed some wide open shots.
This is why I think all the teams that give Dangerfield a shot give up on her, because it is just too much to overcome what she doesnât give you on defense.
Burton had 6 assists, 5 steals and the best +/- on the team at 14. She was key. Trammell is a defensive minded coach. Iâd be surprised if Dangerfield is back on the team next year, even though her salary isnât demanding. |
understood, and mostly agree... but typically a coach will go offense for defense substitutions down the stretch. it was - imo - a choice to go with Burton over dangergfield or even sims, i guess. I'm specifically talking about the end of the game - they were scoreless the last 4-5 minutes of the game.
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