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toad455
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Bob Lamm
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WNBA 09
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Richyyy
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: 03/10/23 12:10 am ::: |
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| After speculation and even public comments from Johannès herself, the 28-year-old human highlight reel and modern-day Statue of Liberty officially signed on to return to New York. |
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| But amid all of the European flare and statistical improvement that her presence led to, the issue with the 21st century’s edition of the Statue of Liberty has always been her availability |
I assume this is a "gift from France" comparison. But it just makes me picture Johannes in a costume.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 04/11/23 1:42 am ::: |
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New York's 2023 Picks:
30. Okako Adika, 5' 9" SG, USC/Denmark
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/06/23 8:41 pm ::: |
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| ooof, those last cuts are going to be brutal, and the guaranteed money for Stef Dolson and Jocelyn Willoughby is going to bite us in the ass
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/06/23 9:18 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| ooof, those last cuts are going to be brutal, and the guaranteed money for Stef Dolson and Jocelyn Willoughby is going to bite us in the ass |
"Brutal" looks like exactly the right word. I can name 14 players that I'd be happy to see on the 2023 Liberty roster, but there will only be room for 11. I assume that Jonathan Kolb is reaching out about possible trades, but we know--and every GM knows--that he's in a terrible position to demand fair value because of daunting roster pressures.
If there's no trade, then I assume that the cuts will be Kone, Sabally, and Prince or Richards. Many fans will go nuts if Didi is released.
There's also a rather dramatic bright spot to this unfortunate situation. When is the last time there were 14 players on the Liberty roster that many of us would like to see on the team? Or even 11? Indeed, after cuts and possible trades, there will be challenging questions about who plays, in what positions, and for how much court time.
I find all this VERY exciting but a lot to ponder.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 05/06/23 9:49 pm ::: |
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I get that some people love Richards, and from talking to people in the league one of the things fans and analysts don't take into account anywhere near enough is how much building a roster is about characters and balance and how sometimes you need people for more than what they produce on the floor. But she's done almost nothing on the court to warrant being particularly attached to her. Find her a job in PR or something.
I'm also, honestly, yet to see it with Willoughby. But people keep telling me she's worth the trouble. Maybe this is the season where we finally find out.
And I still don't think anyone's taking that Dolson contract without attaching something to her to get the deal done. Problem is, New York's picks are worth significantly less now they've assembled this roster. And anyway, is it worth coughing up a 2024/5 first-rounder in order to keep, say, Kone+Sabally instead of Dolson? Might depend on what they're seeing from the kids in camp. |
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/06/23 10:40 pm ::: |
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| Yeah, if people want DiDi solely because of energy, sign her to the damn Torch Patrol or something. I love her too but I'm not dropping my tickets if we cut her like one guy at the open practice said he would.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/06/23 11:20 pm ::: |
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To be clear, I wasn't advocating keeping Richards on the roster. Just saying that lots of fans will flip out if she is traded or released. I think Didi is going to have a great career as an "influencer," model, host of a TV show, whatever. I don't see her having a great career in the WNBA, whether in New York or elsewhere.
I was among those puzzled when Kolb signed Willoughby to a guaranteed contract. I love all that she does off the court, including running her book club. We've heard the raves about her from the Liberty, but still have never seen it ON the court. If she's on our 2023 team, then I hope we will. But I have to believe that Willoughby is one of the players that Kolb is now attempting to trade.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 05/07/23 2:12 am ::: |
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I would like to keep Richards I like her very much
with that said without trades I believe this will be the team
Sloot/Prince
Ionescu/Johannes
Laney/Willoughby
Stewart/Thornton
J. Jones/Dolson/Han Xu
When a team is clearly all in for a championship experience and role out weighs Youth and potential for that reason I believe Prince gets the last spot over Richards (even though I think Richards defense and physicality could be more valuable than Prince's ball-handling and ability to get her own shot in a piece, but Prince's experience and built in chemistry with Stewart gives her the las spot.
Building off of the experience idea Players like Dolson and Thorton are the type of players you want coming off the bench for a championship team.
While I would like the younger players to be kept I wouldn't I don't believe management would consider trading Dolson. Dolson's size, physicality, and 3 point shot makes her the perfect bench compliment to J. Jones and Stewart. She can play with either of them when the other rests. bang with the opposites team biggest player to give them a rest on the defensive end and is probably smart enough to know when to take her shot and a good enough passer to set Stewart, Jones and Ionescu up and a good enough rebounder to clean up the offensive glass and box out on the defensive end.
With that said I could see a win now team with money being willing to give up a future 2nd rounder for Dolson. Atlanta looks win now and Dolson would round out a front court of Ch. Parker, Billing, Dolson, Hilmon and Rupert or Amihere pretty nicely. Chicago who already traded their first round pick in 24 also has no reason to try and tank this season and with NDour-Fall and Hebard out of the picture a future 2nd round pick for Dolson would probably increase their playoff chances as well. If we were doing a straight up salary dump in hopes that Sabally or Kone is a future star than Dolson and a first round pick in 24 to Seattle for a 2nd round pick in 24 or 25 might work. I could also see Dolson in Minny if they aren't tanking for Clark/Buecker next year but we would have to get Indy involved as a third team to take on Powers or McBrides Max contract, probably would have to throw Indy a future 2nd rounder as well, maybe both Indy and Minny but with D. Miller already killing it and the slightly odd T. Mitchell signing maybe Minny wouldn't mind free up minutes at the 2/3 for a true center, Dolson is bigger maybe better McCarville and would fit nicely with Collier. But this was all just a thought experiment as I do not believe we would trade Dolson so we could open up minutes for Kone or Sabally. Oh yeah extra crazy one if we really wanted to open up spots for Jones, Sabally and maybe Richards (I feel like the money almost works) Dolson, Willoughby and first round pick in 24 (Probably #11 or 12) to PX, Digging-Smith to LA, KLS and future 2nd round pick back to NY, NY opens up two spots by moving Willoughby and Dolson, KLS is on one of the spots but NY can fill her spot with a maternity replacement player Richards and saves enough (by sending out 240k and bringing back 130k) they can add both Knoe and Sabally
Sloot/Prince
Ionescu/Johannes/Richards (KLS maternity replacement)
Laney/Thornton
Stewart/Kone
J. Jones/Han Xu/Sabally
The more feasible trade idea IMO is Willoughby to Seattle for a future 3rd round pick
or Willoughby and one of Kone or Sabally to Seattle for a 2nd round pick (It guarantees Seattle get someone we are going to cut anyway first instead of having to wait to see if they survive the waiver wire and we can keep the other up and coming post (lets say It is Willoughby and Sabally going out
Sloot/Prince
Ionescu/Johannes
Laney/Thornton
Stewart/Kone
J. Jones/Dolson/Han Xu
(I would still keep Richards over Prince but oh well)
follow up question if Johannes plays out the French Finals and then stay in France for Eurobasket is she still allowed to come over? And does NY get to use a replacement player in the mean time? Or do we have to roster her from day one and simply go with 10 players until she arrives? And are we sure she is coming? I realizes her and the team have said she is coming but it seems possible she won't be here until mid June how does that work?
Also while I enjoy the thought experiment I do not believe we will make any trades and we will ride with the 11 at the top of the post
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jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013
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| Posted: 05/07/23 10:05 am ::: |
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| For those STHs at yesterday’s open practice, which players were present? Any surprising revelations during the Q$A portion?
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/07/23 10:17 am ::: |
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Players present: I saw everyone but Johannès and what’s-her-face the random player we drafted. Sloot came out for a few minutes to join huddles and watch drills, but did not participate. Stewart appeared and reappeared at random intervals like a goddamn ninja, and also did not participate in drills. JJ stretched and ran some light drills, but when it got to full court play she was relegated to riding the exercise bike with a ferocity that would have seen her place high in the Tour de France. DiDi stretched and ran some light drills, but was on the sideline for the most part. The people in front of me said they saw her coughing and/or sneezing so maybe that’s why she didn’t fully participate.
The Q&A was exceptionally banal, even for that sort of thing. All the questions were pre-submitted, and some of them were stupid, and a couple of them would have been good questions for a coach who had come up through the American AAU/high school/college system, but not for Sandy. Sandy kept talking about herself as a defensive-minded coach and it took Herculean effort for me to not shake my head so hard I would get whiplash. The biggest takeaway I got, honestly, was that Sandy and Olaf are wedded to their work and need to go out on some date nights every once in a while.
I also suspect Sandy might have been annoyed at whoever decided the Torch Patrol and Timeless Torches needed to regularly exhort the crowd to make noise in the middle of practice. I may be projecting, though.
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jmvcity
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| Posted: 05/07/23 1:34 pm ::: |
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| Thanks for the deets! Sounds like I didn’t miss much.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 05/07/23 4:21 pm ::: |
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In my view, the 11-player roster that J-Spoon identified above will be our final 11. I don't see Kolb trading Dolson or Willoughby unless there is a genuinely good return on the trade. None of J-Spoon's trade options convince me.
I see this changing only if Kone or Sabally is exceptional in training camp and the preseason games.
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LibFan25
Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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| Posted: 05/07/23 6:38 pm ::: |
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I'm with you j-spoon, again I would rather keep Didi over prince. And get rid of Willoughby
We gotta have some type of young legs and youth on the roster that fans would get excited about
And they better not trade there future 24/25 draft picks, it's too deep with talent
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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
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| Posted: 05/07/23 7:01 pm ::: |
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| jmvcity wrote: |
| Thanks for the deets! Sounds like I didn’t miss much. |
Totally BORING...and you could not hear the Q & A since the mikes were so bad .
The second poor event in a row for The Liberty this year !
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 05/07/23 7:09 pm ::: |
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I'm also not convinced that Prince is as much of a lock as some people seem to think. Yes, veteran experience compared to all the kids, but they don't need the scoring and she's never really been a point guard.
Even if she's cut she could easily end up being the one who's in and around the squad all season as a replacement, though. If Johannes isn't coming until after EuroBasket they'll start the season one minor injury away from an immediate hardship exception. |
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/07/23 9:26 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
I'm also not convinced that Prince is as much of a lock as some people seem to think. Yes, veteran experience compared to all the kids, but they don't need the scoring and she's never really been a point guard.
Even if she's cut she could easily end up being the one who's in and around the squad all season as a replacement, though. If Johannes isn't coming until after EuroBasket they'll start the season one minor injury away from an immediate hardship exception. |
I don't see Prince as a lock. My guess is that she makes the team over Richards, but it's not hard to imagine it going the other way. This looks to me like the most difficult roster decision unless Kone or Sabally is great in practice.
I lean toward Prince because she was actually brought in during the offseason. Richards was already there. It wasn't obvious that the Liberty needed another backup guard and definitely (in my view) not obvious that they needed Epiphanny Prince.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 05/08/23 1:50 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
I'm also not convinced that Prince is as much of a lock as some people seem to think. Yes, veteran experience compared to all the kids, but they don't need the scoring and she's never really been a point guard.
Even if she's cut she could easily end up being the one who's in and around the squad all season as a replacement, though. If Johannes isn't coming until after EuroBasket they'll start the season one minor injury away from an immediate hardship exception. |
I don't see Prince as a lock. My guess is that she makes the team over Richards, but it's not hard to imagine it going the other way. This looks to me like the most difficult roster decision unless Kone or Sabally is great in practice.
I lean toward Prince because she was actually brought in during the offseason. Richards was already there. It wasn't obvious that the Liberty needed another backup guard and definitely (in my view) not obvious that they needed Epiphanny Prince. |
I agree that Prince is less of a lock than the rest but as Bob said her signing in and of itself it what makes me think she is close to one. Kind of like Toliver in Washington if you think you already have what you need why bring them in at all. A vet like Prince willing to play on a cost effective contract could probably also still have made other rosters so why sign with NY if you don't feel (or have been told) you have a strong chance at making the team.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/08/23 10:50 pm ::: |
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Just watched a podcast on THE NEXT with Jackie Powell and Howard Megdal talking about the Liberty.
https://www.thenexthoops.com/podcast/locked-on-wbb/locked-on-womens-basketball-jonquel-jones-breanna-stewart-and-new-york-liberty/
A few notes:
--Courtney Vandersloot said she hopes to play until she's 40! At the moment, she is recovering from a concussion.
--Apparently Jocelyn Willoughby has been looking VERY good.
--They spoke highly of Sika Kone but don't expect her to make the team. I hadn't known that Kone is only 19. The implication was that she's not fully ready yet.
--Han Xu has gained another inch and is now close to 6' 11".
--Powell said she believes the last cut will come down to either Didi Richards or Nyara Sabally, who's looked good. This seemed to imply that Epiphanny Prince will not make the team, but they didn't mention Prince.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/10/23 1:12 pm ::: |
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Box score of this morning's preseason game between New York and Connecticut:
https://www.wnba.com/game/20230510/NYLCON/
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/10/23 9:58 pm ::: |
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Another podcast from THE NEXT. It's a press conference from a few days ago. In the first half, Sandy Brondello and Jonathan Kolb are questioned by various journalists. In the second half, Sabrina Ionescu, Breanna Stewart, and Jonquel Jones are questioned.
https://www.thenexthoops.com/features/locked-on-womens-basketball-jonathan-kolb-sandy-brondello-new-york-liberty-stars-talk-wnba-season/
Jonathan Kolb said that what's ahead in terms of roster decisions is "agonizing." He didn't say this, but I took that to mean that Kolb is going to have to trade or release players he drafted or signed.
Kolb mentioned an interesting factor in the team's considerations how would players who might be #9, #10, and #11 on the Liberty roster feel about perhaps getting very limited playing time? (Presumably: would that be a problem for those players and therefore for the team?)
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 05/13/23 6:50 pm ::: |
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Box score of today's preseason game between New York and Las Vegas:
https://www.espn.com/wnba/boxscore/_/gameId/401545052
That's it for preseason games for the Liberty. Now we await the final roster decisions that some of us have wondered about for quite a while. 
I'll take a final guess:
Starters: Stewart, Laney, Jones, Ionescu, Vandersloot
Bench: Thornton, Dolson, Johannes, Han, Willougby, and...
Richards??? Sabally??? Prince??? Kone???
Jackie Powell said it'll be Sabally or Richards. I'm going to go with someone I've never seen play and who's only 19 years old: Sika Kone. Hey, I've been wrong before.
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