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Commissioner Year-End Review: 2022
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Which of the following best describes how you feel about the Commish's overall performance thus far?
I approve of the job she's done thus far
43%
 43%  [ 18 ]
I think she's been so-so at best, but I also think she needs more time in the job to improve/succeed
34%
 34%  [ 14 ]
I don't have strong feelings either way; I don't really care if she stays or goes
17%
 17%  [ 7 ]
I strongly disapprove of the job the Commissioner has done; The league needs a new one ASAP
4%
 4%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 41

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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 12/26/22 10:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

B +



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 12/26/22 11:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The huge impending issue for the WNBA is the next TV deal. Whether they expand or not - and where - likely will be, and should be, decided by whether it would enhance the WNBA's negotiating position for that TV deal. The reason there are teams in Chicago and Atlanta is basically that ESPN wanted teams there. So if a team in Oakland, or Phillly, or Toronto, or whatever specific market, would significantly boost that deal, you actively pursue an ownership group and push to get it done. That would also help the existing ownership groups agree to add teams if they believe it adds more money than splitting the pie into extra pieces would take away.

But if they've decided it's not going to improve that TV deal, maybe they're hoping to wait until after it's done, and then use it as proof of the health of the league as a prospect to attract owners they'd want (likely with a much higher buy-in price at that stage).


I didn’t actually know this, though it sure makes sense hearing about it in this day & age where college conference realignment at the top is happening almost solely because the big networks want it to happen.

Sucks that after ESPN wanted Chicago & Atlanta, they never wanted to recoup the losses of the Houston market and Bay Area-ish market that happened soon after. The 2010s was such a bland & wasted decade in general for the League as it relates to its growth & advancement. Looking back, it feels like absolutely nothing happened on that front. If the main (only real?) goal was for the eventual 12 teams to achieve stability, I wouldn't say much progress was made. I don't know if those franchises that were awash in the red at the beginning of the decade ended up a whole lot closer to the black by the time 2020 happened.

Might be a dumb question, but how soon can a new tv deal for the W be signed & announced? Theoretically anytime now, or like within a year before the current tv deal expires or something? Also, is there/was there an exclusive negotiating window that the W and ESPN have/had to go through first?


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12493
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PostPosted: 12/27/22 7:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ESPN most likely helped the push of Tulsa to Dallas seeing as though in the comets days Dallas had the highest viewership in the state of texas. Great post richeyy now I’m thinking conspiracy wise Laughing



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 12/28/22 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:

Might be a dumb question, but how soon can a new tv deal for the W be signed & announced? Theoretically anytime now, or like within a year before the current tv deal expires or something? Also, is there/was there an exclusive negotiating window that the W and ESPN have/had to go through first?

No idea what the rules are on stuff like that, or what kind of options/windows are written into the existing deal. It's not like the CBA, where we have a public document. And even back when it was signed, there was very little mention of the WNBA. It was pretty much a throw-in in an NBA deal, as far as I remember, and only little bits about the actual numbers on the WNBA side have trickled out over the years since.

Hopefully this time round the WNBA gets to sort out its own deal, and comes out with something even vaguely approaching that mammoth MLS number.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 12/28/22 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Hopefully this time round the WNBA gets to sort out its own deal, and comes out with something even vaguely approaching that mammoth MLS number.


I predict the media deals will be well below market value as long as the NBA is in charge



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 12/28/22 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Hopefully this time round the WNBA gets to sort out its own deal, and comes out with something even vaguely approaching that mammoth MLS number.


I predict the media deals will be well below market value as long as the NBA is in charge


So do you think Adam Silver/the NBA will undermine Engelbert in the negotiations process? I only ask because I'm under the impression that Engelbert fully understands how the league is currently being undervalued in all facets. (The last 9 minutes or so of the Megdal-Commish conversation I linked on the page before made it clear to me.) Assuming it's solely within her control, I have to think she'll make it so the next media deal will be at least a decent amount bigger & more valuable than it is now, especially if she diversifies it like she's already been doing as opposed to putting all the W's eggs in the ESPN basket.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 12/28/22 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In terms of just flat-out cash, the diversification basically hasn't done a damn thing, though. The main income stream from broadcasts is still ESPN, despite the 9,000 other places you now have to search for games (and pay for subscriptions to) if you want to watch them in the US. Meanwhile, MLS sign up with one company - but with opportunities to still sell games non-exclusively to national TV broadcasters - and get handed the motherload. So I wonder if letting somewhere become the 'home of the WNBA' or whatever might actually be the path to the highest cash return. I don't think they're going to want to disappear from national TV - a visible presence is even more vital when you're still trying to grow rather than when you're already huge - but one company who backs up the Brink's truck could be the best way to go as long as they're still allowed to show some games nationally on top.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 12/28/22 5:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To me, the diversification of avenues for watching is about the short-term exposure of getting the games out there, as well as setting up for the next media deal. It could be that Engelbert is betting on decent viewership now to come back to these networks (and/or others) in the next round of media negotiations to say something like, “here are the ratings now, compared to ratings for this other product to whom they’re valued X dollars, so here’s what we should be worth,” to make it objective and as difficult as possible for these media companies to nerf their value for shoddy & shady reasons. Without looking right at those viewership numbers for reference, that’d at least be my guess, cuz obviously that strategy fails if the ratings aren’t hitting a certain target for the W.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
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PostPosted: 12/28/22 6:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
So do you think Adam Silver/the NBA will undermine Engelbert in the negotiations process?


I believe they will mostly exclude her from the process like they did her predecessors



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 12/28/22 7:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
So do you think Adam Silver/the NBA will undermine Engelbert in the negotiations process?


I believe they will mostly exclude her from the process like they did her predecessors


Perhaps it could be different this time with her being a Commissioner like Silver is, instead of a President like all her predecessors were – let alone her being perceived as more competent than those who came before her. Maybe the switch from President to Commissioner was the NBA telling the W:



johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: 12/28/22 8:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I might be in the minority but I think losing ESPN as the main broadcast partner would be bad for the league. Nothing can compete with ESPN's self promotion machine. Having CBS Sports as the home or Apple TV would likely eliminate them even further from the sports news cycle and not be able to compete with ESPN's ratings.

I think the best outcome is a re-up with ESPN that includes ESPN+ as the new League Pass for out of market games which they seem to do currently for NHL and PHF. With a significant increase in media rights. I don't see the W getting a deal anywhere close to the MLS deal and don't really think they should want that deal (apart from the money it comes with).

I definitely think they have leverage to get a much bigger rights deal with ESPN but the question is how much? Before the MLS deal, I would've said doubling their rights deal would be a huge win but now it would look like a huge undervalue.

My guess is 100 million, the same slate of national TV games on ESPN and all other games on ESPN+ with maybe a few games includes on Twitter/Facebook and local market RSNs.


wnbafan



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 727
Location: Delaware


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PostPosted: 12/29/22 7:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
I might be in the minority but I think losing ESPN as the main broadcast partner would be bad for the league. Nothing can compete with ESPN's self promotion machine. Having CBS Sports as the home or Apple TV would likely eliminate them even further from the sports news cycle and not be able to compete with ESPN's ratings.

I think the best outcome is a re-up with ESPN that includes ESPN+ as the new League Pass for out of market games which they seem to do currently for NHL and PHF. With a significant increase in media rights. I don't see the W getting a deal anywhere close to the MLS deal and don't really think they should want that deal (apart from the money it comes with).

I definitely think they have leverage to get a much bigger rights deal with ESPN but the question is how much? Before the MLS deal, I would've said doubling their rights deal would be a huge win but now it would look like a huge undervalue.

My guess is 100 million, the same slate of national TV games on ESPN and all other games on ESPN+ with maybe a few games includes on Twitter/Facebook and local market RSNs.


I agree. Also, the video quality and the commentators are so much better on ESPN.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 12/29/22 10:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I totally agree that they'd likely want to stay with ESPN. It's still the biggest sports media presence, even if there are some competitors these days, and the worst thing that the WNBA could do is go backwards in terms of visible presence. Also, while I understand pilight and others seeing it as a negative, in theory the NBA connection ought to help the WNBA's negotiating position. 'Help out our sister league with a favourable deal, and maybe we'll favour you when the next round of TV negotiations come around for our behemoth league', would be the logic.

But that MLS deal was eye-watering, and eye-opening. If the WNBA could get that, even if it's from some completely unexpected streaming service (as long as it's one where you can be 99% sure they won't go bust during the deal), they'd have to consider it. $250m per season would completely re-write the cash maths around the league. Or at the very least you hope to get an offer from somebody that pushes the bidding up into that stratosphere, then go back to ESPN and get something that approaches it. Best of both worlds.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 12/29/22 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We've been comparing the W media deal to MLS for a long time. A very long time. The W has never gotten anything close to what MLS gets.



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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 12/31/22 12:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To expand my B+ description out of all these formers other than Val X, Kathy has shown the determination to improve the league most. Think of the past with Val Ackerman, Donna Orender, Chris Granger, Laurel Richie, Lisa Borders, and Mark Tatum



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 01/02/23 11:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The final tally here was pretty favorable for a Commissioner – out of 41 votes, 32 either straight-up approve or at least thinks she should stick around a little while longer. Again, I really liked what she had to say during this recent interview/conversation.

Pilight wrote:
Prioritization isn't really aimed at the players. It's aimed at the overseas leagues and their bloated schedules.


I generally agree, though I think a counterargument would be that eventually the league would want to be able to openly discourage and even block players from playing overseas, ultimately to optimize the quality of its own product by keeping the talent healthy. Hard to stay healthy if you come into the season banged up having just played in the length of a WNBA season (or longer). Prioritization then is the stepping stone that works towards that goal. Less blowback when by then, there'll surely be fewer players who play both in the W and overseas regularly.

Whether the players and the league/owners actually do have the same goals and thus are on the same page as it relates to a target payscale or salary range for the players remains to be seen.

Not to bring up the "get rid of the salary cap & just go MLB-style with luxury taxing" concept again, but now that Prioritization is a hot-button issue, it's hard not to wonder at this point if that could ever be a feasible solution... watch, someone's about to respond like 'hell no stfu' lol


johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 01/12/23 9:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://awfulannouncing.com/nwsl/nwsl-media-rights-heading-to-market-after-cbs-exclusive-negotiating-window-lapses.html

Quote:
2023 is the final year of the NWSL’s deal with CBS, which pays a reported $4.5 million over the life of the three-year deal.


I found this interesting and could be a bellwether of what happens with the W. The nwsl has grown a lot since it's inception and their ratings have been pretty comparable lately. Obviously their current deal with CBS was a steal for CBS. Should be interesting to see where this goes.


johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 01/28/23 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NWSL Finalizing Expansion Into Three Major Markets, per Report

https://www.si.com/soccer/2023/01/28/nwsl-approves-expansion-into-three-major-markets-per-report

Quote:
The teams in the Bay Area and in Boston would pay nearly $50 million in franchise fees that tower over previous payments that teams made to join the association, per the WSJ. The owners of the Utah-based team are slated to pay between $2 million and $5 million.


I really don't understand the economics of US based soccer but the enormous strides the NWSL has made since it's inception and in the wake of two failed leagues before it, is astonishing.


DTP



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: 01/28/23 12:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I totally agree that they'd likely want to stay with ESPN. It's still the biggest sports media presence, even if there are some competitors these days, and the worst thing that the WNBA could do is go backwards in terms of visible presence. Also, while I understand pilight and others seeing it as a negative, in theory the NBA connection ought to help the WNBA's negotiating position. 'Help out our sister league with a favourable deal, and maybe we'll favour you when the next round of TV negotiations come around for our behemoth league', would be the logic.

But that MLS deal was eye-watering, and eye-opening. If the WNBA could get that, even if it's from some completely unexpected streaming service (as long as it's one where you can be 99% sure they won't go bust during the deal), they'd have to consider it. $250m per season would completely re-write the cash maths around the league. Or at the very least you hope to get an offer from somebody that pushes the bidding up into that stratosphere, then go back to ESPN and get something that approaches it. Best of both worlds.


It simply does not make sense to me as to why Silver cannot get a better deal for the WNBA from ESPN. Just think of how strong of a stance it would be if he demanded $100-125M for the WNBA to be included with any negotiations for the NBA rights.....ESPN & NBA are talking billions, ESPN definitely is walking away from that. Overall, I've been pretty underwhelmed with how little Silver has done for the WNBA during his tenure.


I personally never understood or experienced the issues that so many complained about last year with W League Pass....the app has been great for me. Most complaints I saw on social media where simply people not understanding how these packages operate in terms of blackouts. I have NBA League Pass and MLB.tv....WNBA League Pass is the most reliable out of all three. I would LOVE if I could get my subscription through YTTV like I can with the NBA & MLB OR if the WNBA App was available on Chromecast but ultimately, its $25.....its not that huge of a deal.


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