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Admiral_Needa
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 10480 Location: Tiburon, CA
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12541 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 09/18/22 5:31 pm ::: |
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Conn needs to figure out their situation with the Joneses before they can look forward. One won't be there likely .
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3321
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Posted: 09/18/22 5:35 pm ::: Re: Connecticut Sun 2023 |
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Admiral_Needa wrote: |
For the last few years, CON has had a very high level of talent, and a very low level of injury luck.. :? Losing Jasmine Thomas was especially tough...
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Was it, though? Serious question, does Hiedeman 'level up' if Thomas is healthy?
_________________ Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Posted: 09/18/22 5:40 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
Conn needs to figure out their situation with the Joneses before they can look forward. One won't be there likely . |
I figured Bri would be out here collecting her coins. You think JJ would leave? She's not a free agent correct?
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12541 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 09/18/22 5:43 pm ::: |
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Iluvacc wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
Conn needs to figure out their situation with the Joneses before they can look forward. One won't be there likely . |
I figured Bri would be out here collecting her coins. You think JJ would leave? She's not a free agent correct? |
JJ is not and yet i still get weird vibes from her . I wont speculate as i have no insider info on the team that boiled my poor wings . Bri Jones deserves her payday**cough cough Cheryl Reeve**
Jonquel Jones signed a 2 year / $416,150 contract with the Connecticut Sun, including $416,150 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $208,075. In 2022, Jones will earn a base salary of $205,000, while carrying a cap hit of $205,000 and a dead cap value of $205,000.
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Posted: 09/18/22 5:47 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
Iluvacc wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
Conn needs to figure out their situation with the Joneses before they can look forward. One won't be there likely . |
I figured Bri would be out here collecting her coins. You think JJ would leave? She's not a free agent correct? |
JJ is not and yet i still get weird vibes from her . I wont speculate as i have no insider info on the team that boiled my poor wings . Bri Jones deserves her payday**cough cough Cheryl Reeve**
Jonquel Jones signed a 2 year / $416,150 contract with the Connecticut Sun, including $416,150 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $208,075. In 2022, Jones will earn a base salary of $205,000, while carrying a cap hit of $205,000 and a dead cap value of $205,000. |
I'm sure Cheryl has her agent on speed dial.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3321
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Posted: 09/18/22 5:54 pm ::: Re: Connecticut Sun 2023 |
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Iluvacc wrote: |
I thought Hiedeman did an adequate job once Jas Thomas went down. She's not the great defender that Jas is though. |
Agreed. My question was more from the direction of how good is Hiedeman at this point, if Thomas is healthy? Does she still develop enough to be an asset off the bench and, if so, is she going to be content in that role, or is she looking for other options?
Connecticut is peculiarly in the same boat that Vegas has been in for the last three years, in the sense that there's a fine line between "their roster is deep as fuck" and "their roster is too congested to maximize their talent, while keeping everybody happy," and the Sun are currently on the wrong side of that line. They might actually have to move 2-3 of their All-Star caliber players, in order to maximize their roster's potential. Although, if they did, and it worked, I highly doubt that anyone here would be willing to fix their mouths to call it "addition by subtraction."
_________________ Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12541 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 09/18/22 5:57 pm ::: Re: Connecticut Sun 2023 |
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Silky Johnson wrote: |
Iluvacc wrote: |
I thought Hiedeman did an adequate job once Jas Thomas went down. She's not the great defender that Jas is though. |
Agreed. My question was more from the direction of how good is Hiedeman at this point, if Thomas is healthy? Does she still develop enough to be an asset off the bench and, if so, is she going to be content in that role, or is she looking for other options?
Connecticut is peculiarly in the same boat that Vegas has been in for the last three years, in the sense that there's a fine line between "their roster is deep as fuck" and "their roster is too congested to maximize their talent, while keeping everybody happy," and the Sun are currently on the wrong side of that line. They might actually have to move 2-3 of their All-Star caliber players, in order to maximize their roster's potential. Although, if they did, and it worked, I highly doubt that anyone here would be willing to fix their mouths to call it "addition by subtraction." |
__________X #Agreed
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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SportsGuru
Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 4977
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Posted: 09/18/22 7:47 pm ::: |
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Do the Sun need to make a change at the head coach position? Curt Miller in 7 seasons seems not to be able to get the Sun a WNBA Championship.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7383 Location: Durham, NC
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SportsGuru
Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 4977
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7383 Location: Durham, NC
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19766
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Posted: 09/18/22 11:04 pm ::: |
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SportsGuru wrote: |
Do the Sun need to make a change at the head coach position? Curt Miller in 7 seasons seems not to be able to get the Sun a WNBA Championship. |
I would argue that they have performed better than their roster.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6801
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Posted: 09/18/22 11:07 pm ::: |
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Conn has a solid core but they have painted themselves into a cap corner come 23
ATM they have six players under contract J. Thomas, A. Thomas, J. Jones, D. Bonner, Carrington and Clouden
they need to sign 5 more players and only have 436k left
if they sign their 1st and 2nd round pick (or one vet minimum and one minimum) they have about 300k left for 3 players
unsigned
UFA
B. Jones made 120k in 22 due for a raise
C. Williams made 103k in 22 probably due for a raise certainly won't come any cheaper
RFA
N. Heideman made 72k in 22 has to make at least 75k in 23 but will probably get better offers than that Conn will have to match
in short without trading one of their four big contracts (Thomas, Thomas, Bonner, Jones) they probably lose 2 of the 3 above
easiest but least sexy option that probably bring back a similar or slightly worse team
re-sign
Heideman to decent but cost effective deal
bring back Sims on vet min and Holmes on min/min
add 1st round pick
have about 100-115k to go free agent shopping
J. Thomas/Heideman
Sims/Clouden
Bonner/Carrington
A. Thomas/1st round pick
J. Jones/Holmes
mid level free agent maybe
Coffey, Billings, Harrison, E. Will
not awesome but could stay competitive if Carrington and Heideman progress, J. Thomas is healthy and they do decent with their mid level free agent
The other option is
see if they could trade one of their big contracts most likely if going for best return J. Jones (I think J, Thomas won't have trade value compared to her price tag coming off major injury, I am a big Bonner fan but at her age and a cap hit of 234k I don't see other teams being willing to take that on, I love A> Thomas but her injury history and big price tag again I don't see other teams taking the risk, she is also a limited fit and Conn is the best spot for her, so that leave J. Jones
so the idea would be to trade J. Jones for multiple cheaper contracts or high picks and ideally use the money you save to bring back B. Jones and maybe C. Williams
example below
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6801
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Posted: 09/18/22 11:26 pm ::: |
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this is just an example but the idea would go something like this
trade J. Jones to Washington for S. Austin and Washington's lottery pick (assuming it is not #1
Conn saves 136k in the deal
Conn uses that money to give B. Jones 175k *40k less than J. Jones was making as the starting center) , and can use the rest to pay C. Williams 100k, and heideman 80k
that should leave just enough for the lottery pick and a minimum contract
J. Thomas/Heideman/Clouden
C. Williams/Carrington
Bonner/lottery pick( H. Jones, D. Miller or Joens)
A. Thomas/Minimum contract Holmes
B. Jones/Austin
Basically A. Thomas, B. Jones and Austin split all the minutes at the 4/5 the way J. Jones, B. Jones and A. Thomas did this season
J. Jones is a huge loss but you retain more players and balance
this is just an example
Washington would have the best starting 5 in the league, but would only have enough cap space for 3 vet minimums and 3 minimum/minimums but it might be enough of a systemic change to risk the future to go ring chasing while EDD is still on board and there are worse things than a rebuild around Cloud, Atkins and J. Jones in 24 or 25 and even with the thin post EDD can split her minutes between the 3 and the 4 keeping the weaker bench players on the bench
Cloud/Vet minimum (maybe L. Allen)
Atkins/Vet minimum (maybe SWK)/Minimum (Benzan?)
EDD/Vet Minimum (maybe Vivians or Carelton if their current teams release them or bring back Westbrook?)
Hines-Allen/Minimum (Gustafson)
J. Jones/Minimum (S. Jones)
Anyway this is just an example of the big type of move Conn would have to make if they aren't just going to run it back with a strong core but slightly less fire power than this year
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7383 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: 09/19/22 12:56 am ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
this is just an example but the idea would go something like this
trade J. Jones to Washington for S. Austin and Washington's lottery pick (assuming it is not #1
Conn saves 136k in the deal
Conn uses that money to give B. Jones 175k *40k less than J. Jones was making as the starting center) , and can use the rest to pay C. Williams 100k, and heideman 80k
that should leave just enough for the lottery pick and a minimum contract
J. Thomas/Heideman/Clouden
C. Williams/Carrington
Bonner/lottery pick( H. Jones, D. Miller or Joens)
A. Thomas/Minimum contract Holmes
B. Jones/Austin
Basically A. Thomas, B. Jones and Austin split all the minutes at the 4/5 the way J. Jones, B. Jones and A. Thomas did this season
J. Jones is a huge loss but you retain more players and balance
this is just an example
Washington would have the best starting 5 in the league, but would only have enough cap space for 3 vet minimums and 3 minimum/minimums but it might be enough of a systemic change to risk the future to go ring chasing while EDD is still on board and there are worse things than a rebuild around Cloud, Atkins and J. Jones in 24 or 25 and even with the thin post EDD can split her minutes between the 3 and the 4 keeping the weaker bench players on the bench
Cloud/Vet minimum (maybe L. Allen)
Atkins/Vet minimum (maybe SWK)/Minimum (Benzan?)
EDD/Vet Minimum (maybe Vivians or Carelton if their current teams release them or bring back Westbrook?)
Hines-Allen/Minimum (Gustafson)
J. Jones/Minimum (S. Jones)
Anyway this is just an example of the big type of move Conn would have to make if they aren't just going to run it back with a strong core but slightly less fire power than this year |
DC says NO. We love our Shakira!
_________________ Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020 Posts: 1848
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Posted: 09/19/22 6:21 am ::: |
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mercfan3 wrote: |
SportsGuru wrote: |
Do the Sun need to make a change at the head coach position? Curt Miller in 7 seasons seems not to be able to get the Sun a WNBA Championship. |
I would argue that they have performed better than their roster. |
I agree. I think CT has some good players but their overachievement and consistency has led people to believe they are better than they actually are. CT has a lot of balanced talent but they are essentially a team of Six Woman of the Year candidates. They don't have an A'ja, Stewie, Griner, EDD type star player who can carry them over the hump. They are like Chicago prior to Parker's arrival. Very good but just not championship calibre. They'll have perennial buzz with this roster but I don't think Curt Miller is the problem here.
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 737 Location: Delaware
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2817 Location: New York
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Posted: 09/19/22 8:27 am ::: Re: Connecticut Sun 2023 |
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Iluvacc wrote: |
Silky Johnson wrote: |
Admiral_Needa wrote: |
For the last few years, CON has had a very high level of talent, and a very low level of injury luck.. Losing Jasmine Thomas was especially tough...
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Was it, though? Serious question, does Hiedeman 'level up' if Thomas is healthy? |
I thought Hiedeman did an adequate job once Jas Thomas went down. She's not the great defender that Jas is though.
Can't quite put my finger on what exactly the Sun are missing. |
I've said this before and I'll say it again-
The Connecticut Sun remind me of the 2018 UCONN Huskies. Their 4 best players(Jones, Jones, Bonner, & Thomas) should all play the same 2 positions. Much like the 2018 UCONN team(Lou, Phee, Gabby, Azura) should've all played the same two positions.
In 2018, UCONN got torched by Arike/Young in the 2018 FF. In the 2022 WNBA Finals, Gray/Plum >>>>>> Hideman/Williams.
What the Sun need is a PG and SG can hit 3's. Now, I know those don't just grow on trees, but I would take Brionna Jones, Hideman, and draft picks and trade them to Phx for SDS.
Sidenote**
I DO NOT want this to turn into a UCONN thing, but it's just so so similar to me.
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021 Posts: 2864
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Posted: 09/19/22 1:46 pm ::: Re: Connecticut Sun 2023 |
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ucbart wrote: |
Iluvacc wrote: |
Silky Johnson wrote: |
Admiral_Needa wrote: |
For the last few years, CON has had a very high level of talent, and a very low level of injury luck.. Losing Jasmine Thomas was especially tough...
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Was it, though? Serious question, does Hiedeman 'level up' if Thomas is healthy? |
I thought Hiedeman did an adequate job once Jas Thomas went down. She's not the great defender that Jas is though.
Can't quite put my finger on what exactly the Sun are missing. |
I've said this before and I'll say it again-
The Connecticut Sun remind me of the 2018 UCONN Huskies. Their 4 best players(Jones, Jones, Bonner, & Thomas) should all play the same 2 positions. Much like the 2018 UCONN team(Lou, Phee, Gabby, Azura) should've all played the same two positions.
In 2018, UCONN got torched by Arike/Young in the 2018 FF. In the 2022 WNBA Finals, Gray/Plum >>>>>> Hideman/Williams.
What the Sun need is a PG and SG can hit 3's. Now, I know those don't just grow on trees, but I would take Brionna Jones, Hideman, and draft picks and trade them to Phx for SDS.
Sidenote**
I DO NOT want this to turn into a UCONN thing, but it's just so so similar to me. |
I agree in general but disagree about some details.
Hiedeman can and does hit 3's -- she shoots it at greater than 40% on her WNBA career, 41.1% this season. Losing their floor general in J. Thomas meant Hiedeman had to take on a new role with less of a focus on shooting and scoring.
Bonner definitely does not have the strength and physicality needed to play the 4, despite her length.
_________________ RebKell's 2021-2022 NCAA Fantasy League Regular Season Champion 🏆
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18033 Location: Queens
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Posted: 09/19/22 4:33 pm ::: |
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Whatever measures are necessary to get Alyssa Thomas to fix her shoulders and add some depth back to her game should be taken. I love her to pieces but this is turning into the weirdest possible sticking point.
Something’s going to have to give with the roster. Brionna Jones is worth more than the Sun can pay her, and if they do manage to find it, they’re probably going to lose Hiedeman, which is something I do not want on a subjective level. (I’m a sucker for players who were the first and only to represent their school, what can I say?)
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5384 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 09/19/22 5:22 pm ::: |
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Queenie wrote: |
Whatever measures are necessary to get Alyssa Thomas to fix her shoulders and add some depth back to her game should be taken. I love her to pieces but this is turning into the weirdest possible sticking point.
Something’s going to have to give with the roster. Brionna Jones is worth more than the Sun can pay her, and if they do manage to find it, they’re probably going to lose Hiedeman, which is something I do not want on a subjective level. (I’m a sucker for players who were the first and only to represent their school, what can I say?) |
Yes, the Marquette men's teams have had many players be successful in the NBA. Hiedeman is the first woman to break through the bubble and make a WNBA squad.👍🏿
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66937 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 09/19/22 5:35 pm ::: |
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SportsGuru wrote: |
Do the Sun need to make a change at the head coach position? Curt Miller in 7 seasons seems not to be able to get the Sun a WNBA Championship. |
Thibault got 10 seasons and was fired after winning just two playoff series over his last seven years. That's not exactly where Miller is right now.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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SportsGuru
Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 4977
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Posted: 09/19/22 11:58 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
SportsGuru wrote: |
Do the Sun need to make a change at the head coach position? Curt Miller in 7 seasons seems not to be able to get the Sun a WNBA Championship. |
Thibault got 10 seasons and was fired after winning just two playoff series over his last seven years. That's not exactly where Miller is right now. |
Different era and playoff format. By the way, you give proof Curt Miller will likely have to move on from the Sun to win a WNBA Championship like Mike Thibault.
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