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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16393 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 01/20/22 12:17 pm ::: |
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Hard to know if Alabama cares enough, but Kristy Curry should be on this list. She did make the tournament for the first time last year (after 8 seasons) but is back at the bottom of the SEC again this year.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7868 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/20/22 1:32 pm ::: |
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FrozenLVFan wrote: |
eibln wrote: |
Nicki Collen is already heading in the wrong direction at Baylor. Coaching level and intensity is not nearly as good. Recruiting is basically a flop so far. I have been a Mulkey fan for a long time and hoped her replacement at Baylor would be a good one, but I don’t ever see Baylor getting back to that level with Collen. Baylor really screwed up by letting Mulkey walk, should have listened to her. There were better options than Collen too, but it felt like Baylor never looked. Collen could be out in just a few years the way she is going. |
She's got Holly Warlick syndrome. Following a legend, no proven head coaching expertise, loss of intensity, all in a program with high expectations. I hope it doesn't take Baylor as long to move on as it did Tenn. |
I don't know enough about Collen to say anything, but as I said in a previous post, Holly's problem went a lot deeper than that. She was too damn soft. She lost control of her team and let them run things. It all came to a head with the Te'a Cooper-Jaime Nared fight, which was instigated by Cooper (who had already had a brush with the disciplinary committee and should have been dismissed from the team right then). Holly did not discipline her players for off-court behavior and let them run over her.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Durantula
Joined: 30 Mar 2013 Posts: 5223
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Posted: 01/20/22 4:09 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
Hard to know if Alabama cares enough, but Kristy Curry should be on this list. She did make the tournament for the first time last year (after 8 seasons) but is back at the bottom of the SEC again this year. |
Could she have gotten an extension after making the tournament? They did advance to round of 32 and I see that often, extension after tournament appearance and then downturn, maybe due to a great senior class that graduated.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32341
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Posted: 01/20/22 4:24 pm ::: |
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assistants can really make or break a program. If the HC gets the right ones, they can help greatly - recruiting, relating, and even into the X's and O's. They need to help out in the HC weakness areas. Get the wrong ones and they can help pull a program down. The importance of AC's is under rated. There is a tendency for HC's to choose their AC's based on comfort level rather than expertise.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7868 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/20/22 4:51 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
assistants can really make or break a program. If the HC gets the right ones, they can help greatly - recruiting, relating, and even into the X's and O's. They need to help out in the HC weakness areas. Get the wrong ones and they can help pull a program down. The importance of AC's is under rated. There is a tendency for HC's to choose their AC's based on comfort level rather than expertise. |
Boy howdy! It's happening right here at JMU but you can't convince the idiots on the board. We used to have a really good guard coach, Ashley Langford, but she got snatched up by Stony Brook to be their HC. Oh well, sometimes PGs make the best HCs. Then the coach hired Sammy Prahalis and everything went to hell. She may have been a good PG (although personally I think she was just allowed to do what she wanted) but as a coach she is awful and our PG play shows it. We have two experienced senior PGs in Maddie Green and Brianna Tinsley and a PG in training in Bailey Williams and they aren't progressing at all. Coach O needs to fire her. OTOH, we have a really good post coach in Ian Caskill, helped along a bit by former player Kayla Cooper-Williams (who technically isn't a coach but can relate to the players) and the post play shows it.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 355
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Posted: 01/21/22 1:34 am ::: |
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Kyra Elzy
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020 Posts: 432
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Posted: 01/21/22 10:40 am ::: |
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basketballologist wrote: |
Kyra Elzy |
I don't see this one but would be interested to hear what others have to say. Elzy's a good coach, recruiter, and developer of players. I don't think Matt Mitchell and Kentucky would had had the success they had without Elzy. This is just her 2nd year as HC after a covid first year. They've had bad losses recently to SC, Tenn, and Florida but I still don't see Elzy's on the hot (warm) seat.
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HomerCecil
Joined: 30 Nov 2005 Posts: 1221
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Posted: 01/21/22 11:17 am ::: |
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PG4ever wrote: |
basketballologist wrote: |
Kyra Elzy |
I don't see this one but would be interested to hear what others have to say. Elzy's a good coach, recruiter, and developer of players. I don't think Matt Mitchell and Kentucky would had had the success they had without Elzy. This is just her 2nd year as HC after a covid first year. They've had bad losses recently to SC, Tenn, and Florida but I still don't see Elzy's on the hot (warm) seat. |
I don't see her getting fired this year, but things are definitely not moving in the right direction in Lexington. I frankly don't think Matthew Mitchell was a great coach and, beyond Rhyne Howard, didn't leave much for Elzy to work with. Their only reliable frontcourt player, Dre'Una Edwards, was suspended for the Florida game (she's been suspended twice, apparently, so this might be a bigger issue to watch). I don't see them making the tournament this year and don't know what they have coming in next year, but she needs more depth and more talent.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 01/21/22 11:27 am ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
okstateguy wrote: |
eibln wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
Why Kevin McGuff isn't on the list is also beyond me. Surely his chair is getting a teensy bit warm? |
Why exactly should McGuff be on the hot seat? He has done a pretty decent job with OSU. I normally don’t defend Ohio State being a Michigan fan and all but I have respect for McGuff, he has done alright. |
I think because they got rid of Foster because he was producing the results McGuff has produced his entire tenure there. Not sure if the standard of moving up in the WBB world is still as important as it was a decade ago though |
Yeah, Foster had some highly-ranked teams during his tenure in Columbus, and was Big Ten COY 4 times. After the first year the Buckeyes DIDN'T make the NCAA tourney, they let him go. McGuff has not been an improvement: in his ninth season (Foster had 11 there), his winning percentage is below Foster's. I'd say McGuff's seat 'getting warm' is reasonable. |
I had just read through this thread to catch up yesterday, so this particular group of posts was fresh in my mind as I watched parts of Ohio St dismantling Maryland last night. Anyone want to rethink their view?
I liked Jim Foster over a long career, but his time at OhSt was a different world from that facing McGuff. Most significantly, Foster never had to contend with Maryland or Rutgers (or schools like Michigan finally deciding WBB should get more attention than intramural Quidditch). It's kind of like complaining that the Tobacco Road schools haven't been as successful recently as they were before Notre Dame, Louisville and Syracuse joined the ACC. Different playing field; not a fair comparison.
McGuff won a couple of B10 titles, but has had a couple of poor years recently. He seems to have gotten back on track this year. My biggest complaint would be the unevenness of his in-state recruiting, but fans could complain about most coaches for that (and in-state recruiting success hasn't made Whalen a good coach).
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 01/21/22 11:27 am ::: |
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Sorry, duplicate.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15765 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 01/21/22 12:15 pm ::: |
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I dunno....Ohio State's win over Maryland probably nullifies the negative loss to 'cuse. And yeah, McGuff's Big Ten isn't what Foster dealt with (though Rutgers ain't much of a factor any more)
I thought the recruitment of Kelsey Mitchell had a huge potential to A. Win Lots & B. Gain Big in the recruiting game. He did a lot with her, but 9 years in and he's not made a ton of progress in either category. AND....he's being very well compensated for this 'keeping afloat' trajectory.
In the end, I don't really have much of a vested interest in Ohio St. & McGuff's future. It just seems as though they're using a different metric in their judging of him vs. Foster that goes beyond New Teams in the Big Ten.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7868 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/21/22 12:40 pm ::: |
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From outside, (I spent a lot of years in the SEC, and Foster still means Vandy and a good Vandy team to me) it just looks like the B1G is having a changing of the guard, whidh happens periodically to conferences. OSU and Maryland are slipping a bit, Iowa is making a run, IU and Purdue, which were down for awhile are now definitely UP, and Rutgers is a non-factor. This happens.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18076 Location: Queens
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Posted: 01/21/22 1:41 pm ::: |
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Big East fans, anyone got objective thoughts on Tartamella? I recognize that by now I'm irrational on the matter and would like input from outside the echo chamber of my own head.
_________________ "We all have a platform. We all have a voice & they all hold weight. Silence is a luxury."
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 4879 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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~UK~
Joined: 24 Oct 2006 Posts: 364
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Posted: 01/21/22 2:09 pm ::: |
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HomerCecil wrote: |
PG4ever wrote: |
basketballologist wrote: |
Kyra Elzy |
I don't see this one but would be interested to hear what others have to say. Elzy's a good coach, recruiter, and developer of players. I don't think Matt Mitchell and Kentucky would had had the success they had without Elzy. This is just her 2nd year as HC after a covid first year. They've had bad losses recently to SC, Tenn, and Florida but I still don't see Elzy's on the hot (warm) seat. |
I don't see her getting fired this year, but things are definitely not moving in the right direction in Lexington. I frankly don't think Matthew Mitchell was a great coach and, beyond Rhyne Howard, didn't leave much for Elzy to work with. Their only reliable frontcourt player, Dre'Una Edwards, was suspended for the Florida game (she's been suspended twice, apparently, so this might be a bigger issue to watch). I don't see them making the tournament this year and don't know what they have coming in next year, but she needs more depth and more talent. |
Couldn’t agree more HC. I also think we may need some changes in the assistant coaches.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7868 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7868 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/21/22 3:59 pm ::: |
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HomerCecil wrote: |
PG4ever wrote: |
basketballologist wrote: |
Kyra Elzy |
I don't see this one but would be interested to hear what others have to say. Elzy's a good coach, recruiter, and developer of players. I don't think Matt Mitchell and Kentucky would had had the success they had without Elzy. This is just her 2nd year as HC after a covid first year. They've had bad losses recently to SC, Tenn, and Florida but I still don't see Elzy's on the hot (warm) seat. |
I don't see her getting fired this year, but things are definitely not moving in the right direction in Lexington. I frankly don't think Matthew Mitchell was a great coach and, beyond Rhyne Howard, didn't leave much for Elzy to work with. Their only reliable frontcourt player, Dre'Una Edwards, was suspended for the Florida game (she's been suspended twice, apparently, so this might be a bigger issue to watch). I don't see them making the tournament this year and don't know what they have coming in next year, but she needs more depth and more talent. |
Looks to me like Edwards is about the same kind of drag on Kentucky that Te'a Cooper was on Tennessee. She's just a troublemaker and Elzy would be better off dismissing her butt from the team, no matter how good she is. Make an example of her. Do what Pat would have done (she did it with Peggy Edwards, if anyone remembers). Holly didn't really do it with Cooper and should have. She just "allowed her to transfer". Bad move, IMNSHO. Persistent disciplinary problems must be dealt with, even if they're your best players. Coach O at JMU has done it twice and it improved morale on the team.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3519
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Posted: 01/21/22 5:06 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Looks to me like Edwards is about the same kind of drag on Kentucky that Te'a Cooper was on Tennessee. She's just a troublemaker and Elzy would be better off dismissing her butt from the team, no matter how good she is. Make an example of her. Do what Pat would have done (she did it with Peggy Edwards, if anyone remembers). Holly didn't really do it with Cooper and should have. She just "allowed her to transfer". Bad move, IMNSHO. Persistent disciplinary problems must be dealt with, even if they're your best players. Coach O at JMU has done it twice and it improved morale on the team. |
Uhh, Cooper was told she could either transfer or face disciplinary action for the fight and that her scholarship was not being renewed. If memory serves at this late date, I believe she had faced prior disciplinary issues for her behavior as well.
https://www.991thesportsanimal.com/2017/06/20/jimmys-blog-cooper-transfers-after-fight-with-teammate/
And in other, more recent dust-ups...
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Mississippi State women’s basketball has been without assistant coach Malikah Willis for the past month and whether she will return to the program is unclear.
Willis was last on the bench for the Bulldogs during the Mississippi State MTE, a tournament from Dec. 18-20. After a loss to Troy on the opening day of the competition, a rift developed between interim coach Doug Novak and Willis, according to three people with knowledge of the situation. |
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2022/01/20/mississippi-state-womens-basketball-malikah-willis-absent-doug-novak/6599122001/
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7868 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/21/22 6:15 pm ::: |
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FrozenLVFan wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
Looks to me like Edwards is about the same kind of drag on Kentucky that Te'a Cooper was on Tennessee. She's just a troublemaker and Elzy would be better off dismissing her butt from the team, no matter how good she is. Make an example of her. Do what Pat would have done (she did it with Peggy Edwards, if anyone remembers). Holly didn't really do it with Cooper and should have. She just "allowed her to transfer". Bad move, IMNSHO. Persistent disciplinary problems must be dealt with, even if they're your best players. Coach O at JMU has done it twice and it improved morale on the team. |
Uhh, Cooper was told she could either transfer or face disciplinary action for the fight and that her scholarship was not being renewed. If memory serves at this late date, I believe she had faced prior disciplinary issues for her behavior as well.
https://www.991thesportsanimal.com/2017/06/20/jimmys-blog-cooper-transfers-after-fight-with-teammate/
And in other, more recent dust-ups...
Quote: |
Mississippi State women’s basketball has been without assistant coach Malikah Willis for the past month and whether she will return to the program is unclear.
Willis was last on the bench for the Bulldogs during the Mississippi State MTE, a tournament from Dec. 18-20. After a loss to Troy on the opening day of the competition, a rift developed between interim coach Doug Novak and Willis, according to three people with knowledge of the situation. |
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/mississippi-state/2022/01/20/mississippi-state-womens-basketball-malikah-willis-absent-doug-novak/6599122001/ |
Which goes back to what I said earlier about Holly not having control of her team. When Cooper got into it with the disciplinary board is when she should have dismissed her from the team. Period. She'd already been a problem on the team before that.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18371 Location: Phoenix
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Posted: 01/26/22 2:36 pm ::: |
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eibln wrote: |
Nicki Collen is already heading in the wrong direction at Baylor. Coaching level and intensity is not nearly as good. Recruiting is basically a flop so far. I have been a Mulkey fan for a long time and hoped her replacement at Baylor would be a good one, but I don’t ever see Baylor getting back to that level with Collen. Baylor really screwed up by letting Mulkey walk, should have listened to her. There were better options than Collen too, but it felt like Baylor never looked. Collen could be out in just a few years the way she is going. |
Getting a McDonald's All-American in Darianna Littlepage-Buggs at the wing/forward position is hardly a "flop" - especially in her first recruiting class.
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TechDawgMc
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 404 Location: Temple, TX
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Posted: 01/27/22 10:45 am ::: |
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CamrnCrz1974 wrote: |
eibln wrote: |
Nicki Collen is already heading in the wrong direction at Baylor. Coaching level and intensity is not nearly as good. Recruiting is basically a flop so far. I have been a Mulkey fan for a long time and hoped her replacement at Baylor would be a good one, but I don’t ever see Baylor getting back to that level with Collen. Baylor really screwed up by letting Mulkey walk, should have listened to her. There were better options than Collen too, but it felt like Baylor never looked. Collen could be out in just a few years the way she is going. |
Getting a McDonald's All-American in Darianna Littlepage-Buggs at the wing/forward position is hardly a "flop" - especially in her first recruiting class. |
Yeah, the class was ranked #9 before they added Littlepage-Buggs, which should push it up the list even higher. Collen's seat isn't even mildly warm. She is very likeable and her coaching philosophy will be appealing to players who want to play in an exciting brand of basketball -- which means she should recruit well. The admin--and most fans--are willing to give her time to get her system working well. Heck, the blowout of Iowa St. even shut the critics up for the time being.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7868 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/28/22 1:36 pm ::: |
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Does anyone really think that Doug Novak will be coaching Mississippi State next year? They have dissension in the ranks, dissension on the staff, and their best player is in the portal. If Nikki hadn't had to step down they might be going somewhere. Now things are just a mess. If MSU keeps him I think they are making a mistake.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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NoDakSt
Joined: 26 Oct 2005 Posts: 4929
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Posted: 01/28/22 2:36 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Does anyone really think that Doug Novak will be coaching Mississippi State next year? They have dissension in the ranks, dissension on the staff, and their best player is in the portal. If Nikki hadn't had to step down they might be going somewhere. Now things are just a mess. If MSU keeps him I think they are making a mistake. |
I think Novak will be gone. MSU needs to scrub the slate clean. Hiring McCray was mistake number one and it started the avalanche.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013 Posts: 7868 Location: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted: 01/28/22 2:47 pm ::: |
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NoDakSt wrote: |
summertime blues wrote: |
Does anyone really think that Doug Novak will be coaching Mississippi State next year? They have dissension in the ranks, dissension on the staff, and their best player is in the portal. If Nikki hadn't had to step down they might be going somewhere. Now things are just a mess. If MSU keeps him I think they are making a mistake. |
I think Novak will be gone. MSU needs to scrub the slate clean. Hiring McCray was mistake number one and it started the avalanche. |
I absolutely disagree. McCray is a helluva good coach and had she not had to step down MSU would not be in the shape it's in now.
_________________ Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 4879 Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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Posted: 01/28/22 3:01 pm ::: |
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summertime blues wrote: |
Does anyone really think that Doug Novak will be coaching Mississippi State next year? They have dissension in the ranks, dissension on the staff, and their best player is in the portal. If Nikki hadn't had to step down they might be going somewhere. Now things are just a mess. If MSU keeps him I think they are making a mistake. |
Not knowing much about that program, it seems like it was a mess before he took over. Since March, there have been 6 transfers out (2 were grads), and five new assistants for three spots. She didn’t have a finalized staff until mid-September when Novak and Willis were hired. There was no time to build chemistry before she left.
Also, you are one of the ones who say the Hayes sisters are bad news, yet Nikki was the one who brought them in.
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