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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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 Posted: 12/01/21 6:59 pm ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
I am a African American male. But the African American females in the SEC has done a poor job.
.......
Let's just call a spade a spade. |
Fair enough. Your grammar needs some work (..."females in the SEC has done" should be "have done") But either way, the implication is that you're looking from now, back through the years. And why DID you leave Staley and Taylor out of your 'evaluation' of SEC African American coaches? There's also Pokey Chatman - highly successful.
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
You conveniently left out Staley and Taylor. Coach Yo has had Ole Miss on an upward trajectory since she arrived. McCray had one season before she had to leave due to health issues. As AC, Kyra Elzy was part of Mitchell's success at Kentucky and posted an 18-9 record in her first year as HC. Flournoy had several successful seasons at Auburn before her last two got her canned. Fargas never lived up to expectations but had 6 NCAAT appearances and 2 S16's in her time there.
Overall, I don't think the body of evidence supports your premise. |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| That's your opinion. |
Yep. Opinions abound here at Reb's. But, the VALUED, credible opinions typically have some facts to back them up. Frozen has 'em, you don't.
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 4878
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: 12/01/21 7:03 pm ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| PG4ever wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Poor Tomekia Reed doesn't even get a last name |
lol my bad. She's big time tho. She has won 3 SWAC championships in her 4 years there. |
She might mess around and get that Mississippi State job. But I think the SEC women black coaches has messed that up for her. |
What does "I think the SEC women black coaches has messed that up for her" mean? Please elaborate/explain. |
I am a African American male. But the African American females in the SEC has done a poor job.
- Flournoy (Auburn)
- Elzy (Kentucky)
- Fargas (LSU)
- McPhee (Ole Miss)
- McCray (Mississippi State)
Let's just call a spade a spade. |
You conveniently left out Staley and Taylor. Coach Yo has had Ole Miss on an upward trajectory since she arrived. McCray had one season before she had to leave due to health issues. As AC, Kyra Elzy was part of Mitchell's success at Kentucky and posted an 18-9 record in her first year as HC. Flournoy had several successful seasons at Auburn before her last two got her canned. Fargas never lived up to expectations but had 6 NCAAT appearances and 2 S16's in her time there.
Overall, I don't think the body of evidence supports your premise. |
That's your opinion. McCray had MSU going downward! So does Elzy at Kentucky! Flournoy was garbage! Yo is trending up but they still aren't living up to expectations! And let's not get on Fargas. So yeah, I said what I said...
Curry (Alabama), Pingeton (Missouri), Harper (Tennessee), Ralph (Vanderbilt) has done a superb job at their programs, respectively. |
“Superb job?”
Curry’s just over .500 at Alabama overall and under .500 in SEC games. Curry has made the NCAA tournament one time in eight seasons with the Crimson Tide.
Pingeton’s won 9 games each of her last two seasons. She had a run of 4 NCAAs, but she’s definitely been trending downward.
Ralph hasn’t even had a SEC season yet. She’s been coaching games for one month.
Harper has done a great job.
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basketballologist
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 355
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| Posted: 12/01/21 7:26 pm ::: |
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Terri Flournoy-Williams
Auburn Tigers (Southeastern Conference) (2012–2021)
2012–13 Auburn 19–15 5–11 T-10th WNIT Quarterfinals
2013–14 Auburn 19–15 7–9 11th WNIT Third Round
2014–15 Auburn 13–18 3–13 13th
2015–16 Auburn 20–13 8–8 T-7th NCAA Second Round
2016–17 Auburn 17–15 7–9 T-8th NCAA First Round
2017–18 Auburn 14–15 5-11 10th
2018–19 Auburn 22–10 9–7 T-6th NCAA First Round
2019–20 Auburn 11–18 4–12 T-12th
2020–21 Auburn 5–19 0–15 13th
Auburn: 140–138 (.504) 48–95 (.336)
Kyra Elzy (inherited a top 10 program when Matthew Mitchell left)
Kentucky Wildcats (Southeastern Conference) (2020–present)
2020–21 Kentucky 18–9 9–6 T–5th NCAA Second Round
Nikki Fargas
LSU Lady Tigers (Southeastern Conference) (2011–2021)
2011–12 LSU 23–11 10–6 4th NCAA 2nd Round
2012–13 LSU 22–12 10–6 6th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2013–14 LSU 21–13 7–9 T–6th NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2014–15 LSU 17–14 10–6 T–4th NCAA First Round
2015–16 LSU 10–21 3–13 13th
2016–17 LSU 20–12 8–8 7th NCAA First Round
2017–18 LSU 19–10 11–5 4th NCAA First Round
2018–19 LSU 16–13 7–9 6th
2019–20 LSU 20–10 9–7 7th Postseason not held due to COVID-19
2020–21 LSU 8–12 6–8 8th
LSU: 176–128 (.579) 81–77 (.513)
Total: 248–154 (.617)
Yolette McPhee-McCuin
Ole Miss Rebels (Southeastern Conference) (2018–present)
2018–19 Ole Miss 9–22 3–13 T12th
2019–20 Ole Miss 7–23 0–16 14th
2020–21 Ole Miss 15–12 4–10 11th WNIT Runner-up
2021–22 Ole Miss 6–1 0–0
Ole Miss: 37–58 (.389) 7–39 (.152)
Total: 131–121 (.520)
Nikki McCray
Inherited a top 5 program but went 9th her first year
Mississippi State Bulldogs (Southeastern Conference) (2020–2021)
2020–21 Mississippi State 10–9 5–7 9th
Mississippi State: 10–9 (.526) 5–7 (.417)
Total: 63–48 (.568)
[size=7]BUT IM THE ONE WHO IS DRINKING HUH[/size]
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/02/21 2:04 pm ::: |
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Just about ANYBODY could do a better job with Vandy than Steph White did. If Shea Ralph (never a fave of mine) can resurrect that zombified program, more power to her! Melanie Balcomb started the killing and White finished it. I'm watching Shea with some interest, because she learned from a good one.
Kristy Curry is, well, meh. Bama is barely .500. Don't even start with them. They are better than they were, but not much. Auburn, sadly, isn't doing much either.
Coach Yo at Ole Miss, OTOH, has them on a definite upward trajectory and "basketballologist" slandered her by saying she hadn't done much. I guess you don't watch much. As for Nikki McCray, he completely ignored the fact that at least half the team transferred out with Vic Schaefer and she's had to make do with what she had. She had some good transfers in, but then had to step away because of health reasons. I know Nikki and I know she would have done much better this year. She completely rebuilt ODU from the wreck Karen Barefoot left, and had she stayed there it would most likely have been on the way to what it once was. MSU was lucky to have her and it's a damn shame she had to step down.
AND YOU IGNORE STALEY? HOW DARE YOU?
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
Posts: 429
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| Posted: 12/02/21 2:19 pm ::: |
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| basketballologist wrote: |
| PG4ever wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| basketballologist wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Poor Tomekia Reed doesn't even get a last name |
lol my bad. She's big time tho. She has won 3 SWAC championships in her 4 years there. |
She might mess around and get that Mississippi State job. But I think the SEC women black coaches has messed that up for her. |
What does "I think the SEC women black coaches has messed that up for her" mean? Please elaborate/explain. |
I am a African American male. But the African American females in the SEC has done a poor job.
- Flournoy (Auburn)
- Elzy (Kentucky)
- Fargas (LSU)
- McPhee (Ole Miss)
- McCray (Mississippi State)
Let's just call a spade a spade. |
It doesn't matter to me that you're African American (or male). If an African American female coach doesn't do well, other African American female coaches who come after should not be denied opportunities because they are also Black. Also, they recycle white coaches (particularly male) in college and pro sports and give them more opportunities after they fail at one place so why not recycle some Black female coaches as well. I've never heard "Oh, the white coaches messed it up for the other white coaches." Have you?
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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| Posted: 12/02/21 2:26 pm ::: |
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| PG4ever wrote: |
It doesn't matter to me that you're African American (or male). If an African American female coach doesn't do well, other African American female coaches who come after should not be denied opportunities because they are also Black. Also, they recycle white coaches (particularly male) in college and pro sports and give them more opportunities after they fail at one place so why not recycle some Black female coaches as well. I've never heard "Oh, the white coaches messed it up for the other white coaches." Have you? |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
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| Posted: 12/02/21 2:38 pm ::: |
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"Curry (Alabama), Pingeton (Missouri), Harper (Tennessee), Ralph (Vanderbilt) has done a superb job at their programs, respectively."
Okay, now I really feel like I can totally disregard anything you say. I hope Ralph does well at Vandy, but come on, she's been there like a week, has a 5-4 record and she's already done a "superb" job? (sucking my teeth and waving my hand of dismissal)
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 12/02/21 4:17 pm ::: |
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Curry's win % in the SEC is .359, barely better than Flournoy-Williams' was (.336) and significantly worse than Fargas' (.513) when they were replaced and has never finished better than .500, with only 1 NCAA appearance in 8 years.
Robin Pingeton is just .321 in the SEC without Sophie Cunningham (.615 with).
Meanwhile, Joni Taylor is .579 in the SEC without having coached a pro. Johnnie Harris already has a Top 25 win. Despite Kentucky not maintaining Top 10 status last season, Kyra Elzy was still .600 in the SEC and won the Maggie Dixon award. I think at least the current batch of black women coaches in the SEC is doing really well.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18030
Location: Queens
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| Posted: 12/02/21 5:16 pm ::: |
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| PG4ever wrote: |
| It doesn't matter to me that you're African American (or male). If an African American female coach doesn't do well, other African American female coaches who come after should not be denied opportunities because they are also Black. Also, they recycle white coaches (particularly male) in college and pro sports and give them more opportunities after they fail at one place so why not recycle some Black female coaches as well. I've never heard "Oh, the white coaches messed it up for the other white coaches." Have you? |
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
Posts: 453
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: 12/06/21 12:25 am ::: |
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| I'm prepared to say Jim Littell could be on this list, or a potential "lets move you into the department and off the bench" candidate, especially if he doesnt nab a decent recruit this cycle or end .500
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/07/21 11:43 am ::: |
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| There are people on the JMU boards screaming for Sean O'Regan's head because JMU has a losing record so far this year and hasn't been to the NCAA since the year after Kenny Brooks left (they got sent to the cleaners by DePaul that year). But all those same folks do is talk about how good things were back in the "glory days" of the late 1980s-early 90s. They can't point out any specific problems with the current team, such as: the defection of Rayne Tucker or the current absence of Peyton McDaniel (out with injury). I am personally less than thrilled with the guard coaching of Sammy Prahalis--she was a pretty good player but she does not match up to the coaching skills of Ashley Langford. AT ALL. Maybe the fact that she's hugely pregnant is a factor..."baby brain" IS a real thing....but she's just not a very good coach IMNSHO. And Sean is too much of a softy to fire her.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
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| Posted: 12/07/21 11:31 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| There are people on the JMU boards screaming for Sean O'Regan's head because JMU has a losing record so far this year and hasn't been to the NCAA since the year after Kenny Brooks left (they got sent to the cleaners by DePaul that year). But all those same folks do is talk about how good things were back in the "glory days" of the late 1980s-early 90s. They can't point out any specific problems with the current team, such as: the defection of Rayne Tucker or the current absence of Peyton McDaniel (out with injury). I am personally less than thrilled with the guard coaching of Sammy Prahalis--she was a pretty good player but she does not match up to the coaching skills of Ashley Langford. AT ALL. Maybe the fact that she's hugely pregnant is a factor..."baby brain" IS a real thing....but she's just not a very good coach IMNSHO. And Sean is too much of a softy to fire her. |
There is more to her job than what just the public sees, and perhaps she is extraordinary at other parts of her job and she doesn't warrant being fired as opposed to just the head coach is a "softy". Also who is to say these faults you are saying are hers are not really on the other coaches.
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2819
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: 12/08/21 9:26 am ::: |
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| mzonefan wrote: |
| Virginia continues to fall, losing to Richmond today. |
Last night they lost at home to American to drop to 3-7 on the year, 1-5 at home. Granted, American is 6-2, but still. They don't play again until December 19th in what might be a complete and total beatdown as they play at 4 pm at #2 NC State.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 12/08/21 4:54 pm ::: |
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| duplicate, sorry
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 12/08/21 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 12/08/21 4:55 pm ::: |
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The flames around Tina Thompson just keep getting higher. Yesterday they lost to American, game played at UVA.
A comment I read said that American last beat a P5 team in 1998. Don't know if that's true, but if so, it's striking.
(Probably the best news in Charlottesville was that VaTech lost to Liberty the same night. Lost badly. Tough day for the ACC.)
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
Posts: 429
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| Posted: 12/08/21 10:05 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
The flames around Tina Thompson just keep getting higher. Yesterday they lost to American, game played at UVA.
A comment I read said that American last beat a P5 team in 1998. Don't know if that's true, but if so, it's striking.
(Probably the best news in Charlottesville was that VaTech lost to Liberty the same night. Lost badly. Tough day for the ACC.) |
It's gonna be a long season in C'ville. I was a big fan of Thompson's when she played but when she was named HC at UVA, I had a feeling it wouldn't work out. I was hoping it would but my gut was saying otherwise.
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
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| Posted: 12/09/21 3:41 pm ::: |
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| Not sure if Suzy Merchant at MSU or Fred Castro at Eastern Michigan are on the hot seat but if their respective universities decide to move in a different direction after this year, it would be interesting to see if Merchant would come back to Eastern.
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funkdafied
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
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| Posted: 12/16/21 6:38 pm ::: |
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| okstateguy wrote: |
| I'm prepared to say Jim Littell could be on this list, or a potential "lets move you into the department and off the bench" candidate, especially if he doesnt nab a decent recruit this cycle or end .500 |
OSU missed out on a few 2022 recruiting targets. It’s being said that Littell now has no plans to sign anyone in this class and will be focusing on future classes. That would be disappointing for a coach who has often struggled with roster balance. Obviously things could change depending on transfers, but still…
Also, he has so many players on the roster who are just busts. They were either poorly evaluated or haven’t been developed. They are just taking up spots on the roster.
Meanwhile, the program’s social media posts regularly celebrate Littell being an 800+ win coach. They are including high school and community college wins to his overall total. This seems really unusual to me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen another program do that.
This was just tweeted earlier today:
[url] https://twitter.com/osuwbb/status/1471552993929617409?s=21 [/url]
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okstateguy
Joined: 18 Feb 2021
Posts: 453
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: 12/16/21 7:41 pm ::: |
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| funkdafied wrote: |
| okstateguy wrote: |
| I'm prepared to say Jim Littell could be on this list, or a potential "lets move you into the department and off the bench" candidate, especially if he doesnt nab a decent recruit this cycle or end .500 |
OSU missed out on a few 2022 recruiting targets. It’s being said that Littell now has no plans to sign anyone in this class and will be focusing on future classes. That would be disappointing for a coach who has often struggled with roster balance. Obviously things could change depending on transfers, but still…
Also, he has so many players on the roster who are just busts. They were either poorly evaluated or haven’t been developed. They are just taking up spots on the roster.
Meanwhile, the program’s social media posts regularly celebrate Littell being an 800+ win coach. They are including high school and community college wins to his overall total. This seems really unusual to me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen another program do that.
This was just tweeted earlier today:
[url] https://twitter.com/osuwbb/status/1471552993929617409?s=21 [/url] |
As long as he is an OSU employee, they will continue to celebrate every little thing. It's the OSU way. They see the Athletic Department as an actual family. But that doesn't mean absolute loyalty. Travis Ford bought into the OSU culture, and still wears OSU patches on the anniversary of events, but they fired him after several years of riding the rails between decent and mediocrity.
At 66 though, Littell is facing several seasons of a good season followed by 2 or 3 mediocre or bad seasons. He hasn't recruited well outside of Mack and Gray, and hasn't developed players that well. With the new regime taking control in July, I'm sure initial conversations set the tone for his timeline with the univesity. My guess is following this season, he will make an announcement of retirement, accept an office position, and either Lacey Goldwire or Ashley Davis will return as head coach.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 12/16/21 9:15 pm ::: |
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| I'e always liked Jim. Yeah, Jim's Glory Days are over, as much as they ever were to begin with. Jim was the logical/easiest fit, after Budke's loss. He's not been terrible, but he's not raised the bar there. They certainly could do better.
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"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 12/17/21 12:18 pm ::: |
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| PG4ever wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
The flames around Tina Thompson just keep getting higher. Yesterday they lost to American, game played at UVA.
A comment I read said that American last beat a P5 team in 1998. Don't know if that's true, but if so, it's striking.
(Probably the best news in Charlottesville was that VaTech lost to Liberty the same night. Lost badly. Tough day for the ACC.) |
It's gonna be a long season in C'ville. I was a big fan of Thompson's when she played but when she was named HC at UVA, I had a feeling it wouldn't work out. I was hoping it would but my gut was saying otherwise. |
Tina got hired because she was Tina Thompson.
**Texas could recruit while she was there, but the team routinely underachieved. They always had boat loads of talent but didn't do much with it.
**She is from Los Angeles, played her college basketball at USC and her entire professional career was spent in Texas or the west coast.
**She has 0 ties with the east coast, experience living here, and has no networking angles here.
It was a disaster hire from the start and now Virginia reaps what they sow.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/17/21 1:02 pm ::: |
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| Why Kevin McGuff isn't on the list is also beyond me. Surely his chair is getting a teensy bit warm?
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/17/21 1:03 pm ::: |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| PG4ever wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
The flames around Tina Thompson just keep getting higher. Yesterday they lost to American, game played at UVA.
A comment I read said that American last beat a P5 team in 1998. Don't know if that's true, but if so, it's striking.
(Probably the best news in Charlottesville was that VaTech lost to Liberty the same night. Lost badly. Tough day for the ACC.) |
It's gonna be a long season in C'ville. I was a big fan of Thompson's when she played but when she was named HC at UVA, I had a feeling it wouldn't work out. I was hoping it would but my gut was saying otherwise. |
Tina got hired because she was Tina Thompson.
**Texas could recruit while she was there, but the team routinely underachieved. They always had boat loads of talent but didn't do much with it.
**She is from Los Angeles, played her college basketball at USC and her entire professional career was spent in Texas or the west coast.
**She has 0 ties with the east coast, experience living here, and has no networking angles here.
It was a disaster hire from the start and now Virginia reaps what they sow. |
But mainly, She CAN'T COACH! I have seen her in (in)action and I can tell you that with pretty good certainty.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
Posts: 1467
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| Posted: 12/17/21 2:17 pm ::: |
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| You'd have to think that Pebley's seat at TCU is getting mildly warm this year.
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